Regret buying an xbox one.

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zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Wrong. Halo 5 could have had way better graphics at 30fps therefore in that case 30fps is better. Halo doesn't need 60fps.
Fast paced games like Halo and Forza greatly benefit from 60fps. Even though most people hate on CoD, they strive to keep a rock solid FPS.
 

futurefields

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2012
6,470
32
91
Forza? Yes.

Call of Duty? Yes.

Halo on the other hand does not need 60fps. Not until they tried to turn it into COD anyways.
 

Lil Frier

Platinum Member
Oct 3, 2013
2,720
21
81
Wrong. Halo 5 could have had way better graphics at 30fps therefore in that case 30fps is better. Halo doesn't need 60fps.

Halo could could have had a way better frame rate at a lower resolution. Therefore, lesser visuals are better. Halo doesn't need 1080p and super-awesome textures.

You see how that goes? Someone complains no matter what, and I'd still prefer 60 FPS to a higher resolution or better textures. When I'm in a gunfight online, I care much more about responsiveness of the game than how many pixels the garbage truck on Plaza is pushing.
 

Lil Frier

Platinum Member
Oct 3, 2013
2,720
21
81
Forza? Yes.

Call of Duty? Yes.

Halo on the other hand does not need 60fps. Not until they tried to turn it into COD anyways.

Well, I'll just ask the obvious, then:

Have you even SEEN Halo 5played, let alone played it for real? It plays as fast as any CoD ever has. It's all really fast in Arena, with fewer players, and when it's slowed down some in Warzone, you're now throwing 24 players on massive maps, busier than CoD does. You keep talking like Halo 5 is played like Halo 2, where you are slowly walking in an open area and everyone is popping a Battle Rifle off. Not at all, the maps are tiny, the action is very fast-paced, and there's a lot of close-quarters combat (thank you, SMG) that requires quickly turning, jumping, thrustering, and all of that.

You can definitely feel the smoothness improvements in Halo 4 on TMCC, when compared to the 360. It's almost as drastically noticeable as playing with the XB1 controller for a few days, then picking up a 360 controller and pulling on those tense-as-hell joysticks (which I did yesterday, and it's insane).

Oh, and since you mentioned it, I guess Halo 2 never should have added online multiplayer because its predecessor has scores of 97 and 8.7 on Metacritic, meaning multiplayer made the game worse.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
That's simply not true because there are plenty of games I lock to 30fps because I think they look better at that framerate than at 60fps which gives all the animation an uncanny valley look. GTA V and The Witcher 3 both come to mind as games that benefit with a 30fps update. Halo 5 would have been a lot more impressive visually if they gave the GPU twice the time to render the scene. Then you wouldn't see the bad bag of resolution and LOD tricks they had to do to get the framerate which also still has dips. I will always prefer a locked 30 over a 60fps with dips.


Lol

That is all
 

futurefields

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2012
6,470
32
91
Well, I'll just ask the obvious, then:

Have you even SEEN Halo 5played, let alone played it for real? It plays as fast as any CoD ever has. It's all really fast in Arena, with fewer players, and when it's slowed down some in Warzone, you're now throwing 24 players on massive maps, busier than CoD does. You keep talking like Halo 5 is played like Halo 2, where you are slowly walking in an open area and everyone is popping a Battle Rifle off. Not at all, the maps are tiny, the action is very fast-paced, and there's a lot of close-quarters combat (thank you, SMG) that requires quickly turning, jumping, thrustering, and all of that.


That's exactly what I said, they turned it into COD. See my quote?


futurefields said:
Halo on the other hand does not need 60fps. Not until they tried to turn it into COD anyways.


I have seen tons of Halo 5 and I often have to remind myself I'm not looking at Advanced Warfare.
 

futurefields

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2012
6,470
32
91
Lol

That is all

Yeah dude, I get it. You are 60fps or nothing. I am not that way. I see the benefit of lower framerates.

I also HATE 60fps movies or whatever, that smooth motion crap makes the movies look like garbage just like it does a lot of games when the animations aren't designed for it.

There's a reason why when you watch old documentary footage of like WW2 people marching down the street it looks regal as frick and that's because low framerates makes everything look bad@$$. Why do you think Ridley Scott shot so much of the Gladiator battle scenes at low framerates? Because it makes the kinetics of the action hit harder. Also low framerates subliminally activate the imagination. The mind "fills in the blanks" in the gaps between the frames. https://www.quora.com/Why-does-video-at-high-frame-rates-look-cheap
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Yeah dude, I get it. You are 60fps or nothing. I am not that way. I see the benefit of lower framerates.

I also HATE 60fps movies or whatever, that smooth motion crap makes the movies look like garbage just like it does a lot of games when the animations aren't designed for it.

There's a reason why when you watch old documentary footage of like WW2 people marching down the street it looks regal as frick and that's because low framerates makes everything look bad@$$. Why do you think Ridley Scott shot so much of the Gladiator battle scenes at low framerates? Because it makes the kinetics of the action hit harder. Also low framerates subliminally activate the imagination. The mind "fills in the blanks" in the gaps between the frames. https://www.quora.com/Why-does-video-at-high-frame-rates-look-cheap
FYI

Movies are not games
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
Ugh, I'm trying to not allow myself to buy a One. I really want to buy a PS4 but multiple friends have a One and want me to hop on. The problem is that I don't think I can justify having both simultaneously. The PS4 doesn't have anything I want to play at this very moment though...

Wonder if I can justify both to myself...
 

AMDisTheBEST

Senior member
Dec 17, 2015
682
90
61
I was thinking about getting a xbox 1 or ps4 but decided to buy a Nintendo 3DS instead. I mean all those games on xbox 1 and ps4 are also available on my pc so why waste the money? I am also quite bored gaming on a flat screen tv/monitor, I have dozens of triple A titles like witcher 3, grand theft auto, and total war series sitting in my steam library that i have not yet touched. devices and games i can play on the go like smartphones and 3ds for Pokemon suit me better.
 

futurefields

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2012
6,470
32
91
Ugh, I'm trying to not allow myself to buy a One. I really want to buy a PS4 but multiple friends have a One and want me to hop on. The problem is that I don't think I can justify having both simultaneously. The PS4 doesn't have anything I want to play at this very moment though...

Wonder if I can justify both to myself...

If the PS4 has nothing you want to play, and your friends are all on Xbox, then why are you even considering a PS4? Just because of the slightly better specs? Is it really that important to have a few hundred more shader cores on a GPU? For games that you admit yourself you don't even want to play? And none of your friends will be there? Come on man.
 

Lil Frier

Platinum Member
Oct 3, 2013
2,720
21
81
I also HATE 60fps movies or whatever, that smooth motion crap makes the movies look like garbage just like it does a lot of games when the animations aren't designed for it.

You're talking about two totally different things in a dumb manner there. You're talking a game made at 60 FPS vs. a piece of media at 24 FPS with made-up frames to smooth it out. It wouldn't be that awkward to watch if it were filmed at 60 FPS.
 

TeknoBug

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2013
2,084
31
91
I don't play my XB1 anymore unless I need my Forza fix, also have Halo 5 on it but the controls are weird (feels muddy when turning to aim even with sensitivity maxed). Everything else I play is on PS4, been playing an awful lot of Rocket League.
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
If the PS4 has nothing you want to play, and your friends are all on Xbox, then why are you even considering a PS4? Just because of the slightly better specs? Is it really that important to have a few hundred more shader cores on a GPU? For games that you admit yourself you don't even want to play? And none of your friends will be there? Come on man.

I'm wondering where the hell you're getting the idea that I give half a damn about specs.

I'm considering a PS4 because I am MUCH more interested in the exclusives on the PS4. However, considering the multi-plat overlap, if I get a One, I have a hard time justifying getting a PS4 based just on those exclusives, no matter how much I want to play them.
 

Lil Frier

Platinum Member
Oct 3, 2013
2,720
21
81
I'm wondering where the hell you're getting the idea that I give half a damn about specs.

I'm considering a PS4 because I am MUCH more interested in the exclusives on the PS4. However, considering the multi-plat overlap, if I get a One, I have a hard time justifying getting a PS4 based just on those exclusives, no matter how much I want to play them.

I'm guessing it's because you said, "The PS4 doesn't have anything I want to play at this very moment though..."

So, why buy a console now that you don't want to play? Why not wait for a bundle with a game you want, or for a price drop/sale?
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
If the PS4 has nothing you want to play, and your friends are all on Xbox, then why are you even considering a PS4? Just because of the slightly better specs? Is it really that important to have a few hundred more shader cores on a GPU? For games that you admit yourself you don't even want to play? And none of your friends will be there? Come on man.

384 to be exact, or 33% bigger GPU. And with GDDR5 that is 3x as fast as the XBOs external RAM and still almost 2x as fast as the XBOs ESRAM.

I agree specs don't matter. I'm Playing Breath of Fire IV right now on a CRT in 240p on a real PS1 and my fondest console is the 16 bit SNES @ 256x224.

But if you want to be an Xbox apologist and downplay the differences and sound like a salesman trying to push a more profitable model car onto someone who is interested in something else, I'll be happy to remind you of just how much of a difference there is in reality. It's not insignificant.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
I'm guessing it's because you said, "The PS4 doesn't have anything I want to play at this very moment though..."

So, why buy a console now that you don't want to play? Why not wait for a bundle with a game you want, or for a price drop/sale?

Okay then, I guess only bullet points will get the idea across

- PS4 Exclusives that interest me will be released in the near future. Xbox has no real exclusives that interest me.
- Friends have X1 now.
- If I get an X1 now, the chance of me being able to justify a PS4 drops to near 0 because a majority of the PS4 games are playable on the X1.
 
Last edited:

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
You have anything to back that up? The ESRAM is much much lower latency than GDDR5 RAM, and iirc, you can read/write to the ESRAM simultaneously.

You're a big boy. I'm sure you can find "proof" if you don't believe me. From memory it's like 68 GB/sec and 109 GB/sec to the GDDR5's 176 GB/sec or something like that.

You only have 32 MB of it. 1920x1080x4x3 (front, back, and depth all 32 bit) gives you 24 MB. Plus AA and it's obvious it used as the active texture cache too leaving you 8 MB.

Strictly speaking as a programmer for maximum performance, and to actually get close to that theoretical bandwidth you'd want to halve it so you could double buffer from external RAM to keep DMA flying ALL THE TIME with no stalling, and this + FSAA is why you can't get 1080p from it very easily.

The 32 MB ESRAM is primarily used as a frame buffer and texture source cache, both of which are predictably linear and heavily pipelined from raster to raster and thus benefit more from sustained throughput than latency, unlike a CPU's random access. This is precisely why graphics cards use GDDR5.

And as for reading and writing at the same time, there are only two places this does anything:

1) the DMA transfers writing from main RAM for the n+1 data so that you have the full 109 GB/sec on the read port for n active rendering which still means you're only rendering at 109 GB/sec from the read port, and you won't get 109 GB/sec on the write port because it's limited by the read speed of the DDR3 which is also interleaving access with the CPU and other DMA channels for audio streaming, storage streaming, etc. So in this way you can be getting close to 177 GB/s but the fidelity of the rendering itself can only ever be within the constraints of 109 GB/sec and the 68 GB/sec from DDR3 to ESRAM write port is pretty much "wasted" as you wouldn't need to do that if you could just access it in place faster. And I've only talked about reading... rendering is typically reading from multiple streams and then writing a very small bit of final data back and this will be competing with 68 GB/s of the 109 GB/s on the write port. You can kinda come close in theory but as you can see it's a pain in the ass if you managed to read and understand this mess. And now I'm kinda crosseyed because I shouldn't be trying to articulate advanced programming techniques having been up for 24 hours.

2) heavy source/dest alpha blending which isn't often performed much if it can be helped due to single pass multi texture that's been in use a loooong time now. Read/modify/write is still a very expensive operation for video to be used sparingly even with ESRAM.

While the PS4 is my platform of choice this gen, you can probably tell I'd have more fun programming the XBO provided I had direct metal access which I wouldn't sigh.

Like I said I'm about the game genres, I don't care about the specs. If I seem biased or fanboyish of Sony it's because I grew tired of MS constantly drumming to the shooter+NFL crowd and I've ALWAYS preferred RPGs and adventure games and games that make no apologies for being fiction and fantasy video games instead of trying to be realistic football, racing, or gulf war simulators.

But to constantly hear people continue to downplay a significant advantage to sell their preferred box is tiring. It's more that just "slightly" and "a few shaders".
 
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exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Okay then, I guess only bullet points will get the idea across

- PS4 Exclusives that interest me will be released in the near future. Xbox has no real exclusives that interest me.
- Friends have X1 now.
- If I get an X1 now, the chance of me being able to justify a PS4 drops to near 0 because a majority of the PS4 games are playable on the X1.

Just get both and get it over with.
 

tHa ShIzNiT

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2000
2,321
8
81
Just get both and get it over with.

Not sure if it applies to him, but I'd have had both long, long ago if I didn't have to pay the recurring annual fee on both of them. I can justify the one time purchase but I'm only paying yearly on one console (for me its the PS4).
 
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