Reliability of SSDs?

[npaladin-2000]

<snip> something about phantom forums and men on grassy knolls</snip>

Marvell provides the silicon under contract from Indilinx, who provides the firmware. Is it Marvell or Indilinx? More importantly, who cares?

SandForce provides Intel's controllers, Intel provides the firmware. Are they SandForce or "Cherrywood?" Some would argue that the firmware is the more important factor. Mostly depends on whether they like the manufacturer or not, when you get down to it.

Personally I distrust SandForce controllers greatly. Including the ones OCZ used, which are those high numbers quoted in that article you mentioned, all SandForce based, nothing about the Indilinx-based OG Vertex and Agility models. I don't have a favorite manufacturer. I care about results.The Vertex4 is giving me excellent results. And much as some might loathe admitting it, OCZ is one of the major SSD manufacturers, right up there with Intel and Samsung. I'd put Crucial up there too. I wouldn't bother putting most of the "me too" SandForce "producers" up there.

 

[jwilliams4200]

And much as some might loathe admitting it, OCZ is one of the major SSD manufacturers, right up there with Intel and Samsung

Huh? Who denies that OCZ is a large SSD manufacturer?

OCZ has exactly one area of excellence -- using whatever hype or lies are necessary in order to convince the naive that their products are better than they actually are. Fortunately for OCZ, there are a lot of gullible or ignorant people they can sell SSDs to.

 

[groberts101]

^ same old FUD as usual.

We keep going round and round about the same "percentage of failed drives" articles(where were they from again?.. France?.. LOL) and constantly taking the opportunity to slander OCZ whenever the mood fits or the opportunity arises.

And calling anyone who buys an OCZ based SSD "gullible or ignorant" fits you like a glove there buddy. I'm sure you're well aware that not many are as smart as you are when it comes to computer tech in general and especially with SSD's.

So, if fanboy'ism is my forte?(and I've been accused of far worse so I'll take that as a compliment, thank you very much).. then you surely have conceition and condescension down to a science. Anyone who's read your posts over at XS can see that clear as day.

The best compliment I could give someone like yourself is that you often appear to be too smart for your own good.. or anyone else's for that matter as you seemingly try your damndest to rub it in everyone's face. Which of course gives the opposite effect to most who would read your highly biased viewpoints that far too often become full of ridicule. Far left mentality at its best there.

And we get it already. Samsung is the greatest thing since sliced bread.. and OCZ is the devil.

All I can say to that is that there must be a hell of a lot of devil worshipers out there because this mfgrs drives sell VERY well. And just in case you hadn't noticed yet?.. most professional reviewers and users don't usually dislike them too much either despite your beliefs.

But by all means.. keep this education coming as not all are aware of your previous posts and the attitude that comes along with it. Wouldn't want to miss another opportunity to rub even more faces in it.

 

[bryanW1995]

words

And I think Plextor just nudges out Samsung for #1 in reliability.

You forgot the /sarcasm tag.

 

[bryanW1995]

I frequent OCZ's forum, it's actually pretty helpful, and they have a lot of their support techs and engineers frequenting it, actively. And I realize I'll get flamed for saying something positive about OCZ.

You shouldn't get flamed for this at all. OCZ's engineers and forums are probably the most helpful out of all of them imho. They must be, they sure get more practice than anybody else...

 

[bryanW1995]

Yup, that's it. It couldn't possibly be that you are an irrational OCZ fanboy who posts a lot of nonsense.

Yeah it couldn't possibly be that you have an irrational knee-jerk hatred for all things OCZ.

I suggest that both of you tone it down a notch. This isn't the off topic forums.

 

[jwilliams4200]

And just in case you hadn't noticed yet?.. most professional reviewers and users don't usually dislike them too much either despite your beliefs.

Of course not. If the reviewers are too honest about OCZ and their shady practices, they do not get any more free review samples. OCZ has had years of practice to hone their schemes and scams so that the ignorant and gullible fall for them. And the marketing executive who was responsible for starting many of their scams is now CEO.

The interesting thing in these type of discussions is trying to distinguish the gullible OCZ fanboys from the OCZ shills on the payroll.

 

[jwilliams4200]

You forgot the /sarcasm tag.

No I didn't. Unlike the 830, the Plextor M3 did not need a firmware fix for some fairly serious performance and SMART logging bugs. And the Plextors have a 5 year warranty. Also, the percentage of below average newegg reviews is better for the Plextor M3s than the Samsung 830s.

Plextor is the best bet now for someone who wants a trouble free SSD with top performance. Samsung is also a good choice, usually a bit cheaper, and also likely to be trouble free, but not as likely as Plextor.

 

[jwilliams4200]

I suggest that both of you tone it down a notch. This isn't the off topic forums.

Your post was off topic. Mine was not. Please try to stay on topic.

 

[theevilsharpie]

This thread went to shit fast.

 

[bononos]

^ same old FUD as usual.

We keep going round and round about the same "percentage of failed drives" articles(where were they from again?.. France?.. LOL) and constantly taking the opportunity to slander OCZ whenever the mood fits or the opportunity arises.

.......

Whats wrong with the French article?

 

[npaladin-2000]

Whats wrong with the French article?

Before reading any other answers keep in mind that many Americans have issues with the French for a large variety of utterly senseless reasons. I do not exclude myself from this group either.

 

[BrightCandle]

Honestly it doesn't matter whether its OCZ or Intel that is the SSD - they are still unreliable enough to require RAID when the downtime is unacceptable. Its this key point, that SSDs are still like HDDs in their reliability that needs addressing. You can not find a reliable single SSD, they don't exist and presumably never will.

I wouldn't personally use OCZ SSDs now, it is after all the only make of SSD I have had fail and the alternatives perform on a similar level. Why put up with a company that has done all the things listed when the alternatives haven't and perform just as well.

 

[Geofram]

Whats wrong with the French article?

It's not the fact that it's french, so much as the fact that there isn't an English site who's jumped on and corroborated it, to me. Heaven knows that in the US, people love bad news, and usually the media will be all over something that shows blood in the water.

I've owned 2 OCZ SSDs. The first Vertex (30 GB) is still running fine for me, and has been for years. The Vertex 2 however crapped out and stopped being detected by any BIOS. But when I RMAed it, they replaced it with a Vertex 3.

I think OCZ has problems (aka, they release stuff before it's ready and don't test completely) but my experience is that their RMA process and support are also more active (and helpful) than most that I've seen.

Of course, I'd rather not need the support. I have several G2 Intel SSDs that have been fine since day 1.

By the way - one of those "OCZ is evil" links is from 2002. Ten year old stories about a company aren't particularly relevant to me today. Good chance that many people who worked at OCZ 10 years ago are not even there today.

 

[groberts101]

It's not the fact that it's french, so much as the fact that there isn't an English site who's jumped on and corroborated it, to me. Heaven knows that in the US, people love bad news, and usually the media will be all over something that shows blood in the water.

I've owned 2 OCZ SSDs. The first Vertex (30 GB) is still running fine for me, and has been for years. The Vertex 2 however crapped out and stopped being detected by any BIOS. But when I RMAed it, they replaced it with a Vertex 3.

I think OCZ has problems (aka, they release stuff before it's ready and don't test completely) but my experience is that their RMA process and support are also more active (and helpful) than most that I've seen.

Of course, I'd rather not need the support. I have several G2 Intel SSDs that have been fine since day 1.

By the way - one of those "OCZ is evil" links is from 2002. Ten year old stories about a company aren't particularly relevant to me today. Good chance that many people who worked at OCZ 10 years ago are not even there today.

I won't go into detail(for once, lol).. but I do agree with almost everything there. I have no issues whatsoever with any other nationality reporting problems with a particular piece of hardware or product. Helps to complete the overall picture, of course.

BUT.. who buys more of OCZ's products?.. France?.. or the US? And based on that cross section who would have more realistic picture?

So, my biggest issue is that the absolutely tiny cross section covered by that vendor.

Then again?.. some are hanging on Newegg reviews to figure all this stuff out too.. so it's all relavent to the particular individuals study habits and logic.

Ton's of Ford Taurus's had transmission related issues too.. but they sold a small countries worth of those cars and it's all down to the perspective of those who would rate its reliability. My family has had 2 without issue and my in-law had a Mercury Sable(same car, but retrimmed) that almost made it to 300k miles before the head popped a gasket.

Many around here, especially those ruled by hatred and distrust, often forget or are downright ignorant of the simple.. law of averages.

 

[jwilliams4200]

By the way - one of those "OCZ is evil" links is from 2002. Ten year old stories about a company aren't particularly relevant to me today. Good chance that many people who worked at OCZ 10 years ago are not even there today.

Which word in the phrase "OCZ has a long history of dishonesty" gave you trouble?

Also, if you skimmed the article, you might have noticed this passage:

Well, when we were looking into being an official reseller of OCZ memory in Australia, in a phone call with Ryan Peterson (OCZ Marketing Manager) he offered to send me memory with a $0 customs value, to... I guess... spice up the proposal a little. Meaning, import tax would be exempt, which would have put both of us in jail if discovered, considering the quantity of memory we were talking about importing into Australia.

 

[jwilliams4200]

Many around here, especially those ruled by hatred and distrust, often forget or are downright ignorant of the simple.. law of averages.

You are hilarious, sir! Except that I think you were trying to be serious. So sad. :'(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_averages

The law of averages is a lay term used to express a belief that outcomes of a random event will "even out" within a small sample.
As invoked in everyday life, the "law" usually reflects bad statistics or wishful thinking rather than any mathematical principle.

Perhaps you meant to refererence the law of large numbers, but if you did, that would actually support the case that OCZ is the worst SSD manufacturer as far as return rate, since the average of many samples will approach the expected value of the population, and the French hardware survey is ongoing now for years and (unless noted) reports results that have enough samples to be statistically significant.

Furthermore, the return rates they find for OCZ SSDs correlates extremely well with the percentage of below-average newegg reviews. If you look at, for example Crucial SSD newegg reviews, the percentage of below-average reviews are low (5% or 6%), but for OCZ SSDs, you often see 20% to 30% or even higher below-average newegg reviews.

 

[thelastjuju]

Down with OCZ and the hell with these OCZ apologists. To me its just amazing that in a free market, this company is still able to survive against a slew of competitors that are consistently releasing superior products. Does OCZ just do a really good job promoting their products and manufacturing hype to all these wannabe "enthusiasts" out there?

OCZ SSD drives and their alarmingly poor ratings on newegg may be improving a bit.. but its still beyond me why one would want to assume that type of RISK when it comes to your precious data.. Intel, Samsung, Crucial, Corsair.. just make far, far better choices.

 

[jwilliams4200]

Does OCZ just do a really good job promoting their products and manufacturing hype to all these wannabe "enthusiasts" out there?

Got it in one. OCZ does only one thing well -- marketing their products to the ignorant and gullible.

 

[npaladin-2000]

Which word in the phrase "OCZ has a long history of dishonesty" gave you trouble?

The part where you state "long history of dishonesty" and instead of showing a "history" of it you show a single article that shows nothing since 2002, and expect us to make the jump into "they've been evil Satan for all 10 intervening years."

It really makes me scratch my head when people wonder how a company can be doing well. It's very simple: it pleases the public enough to give them money for their products. There is no other way to be successful. it's not some massive conspiracy when a product you don't like is successful. It just means that you're not one of the people who likes it, and there are large numbers of people who disagree with you.

 

[jwilliams4200]

The part where you state "long history of dishonesty" and instead of showing a "history" of it you show a single article that shows nothing since 2002, and expect us to make the jump into "they've been evil Satan for all 10 intervening years."

Are you incapable of doing your own googling? Are you too young to have lived through it?

I remember those years well, and I remember all of the OCZ scandals and dishonesty. But if you are unfamiliar with the period, I'm not sure why you think I am under any obligation to do your research for you. I laid out the basics, I gave some specifics, and I even provided a link to get you started with some names and search terms. If that is not enough help to get you started on your own, then I feel very sorry for you.

 

[slayernine]

Read this article on, you guessed it anandtech.com, it gives a good idea of how long an SSD could last under a very heavy write load.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5518/a-look-at-enterprise-performance-of-intel-ssds

Also, make sure you buy SSD's from a company that actually does enough testing to ensure their products last approximately as long as advertised. (Intel)

Stay far away from OCZ, they are similar the Jaguar cars and electrical problems of the SSD world. (personal experiences)

 

[npaladin-2000]

Are you incapable of doing your own googling? Are you too young to have lived through it?

I remember those years well, and I remember all of the OCZ scandals and dishonesty. But if you are unfamiliar with the period, I'm not sure why you think I am under any obligation to do your research for you. I laid out the basics, I gave some specifics, and I even provided a link to get you started with some names and search terms. If that is not enough help to get you started on your own, then I feel very sorry for you.

You made a case, it's up to you to back it up.

 

[jwilliams4200]

You made a case, it's up to you to back it up.

Which I did. I provided multiple examples of reasons for disliking OCZ. Obviously that is not sufficient for gullible OCZ fanboys or shills on the OCZ payroll. But that is their problem, not mine.

 

[npaladin-2000]

Which I did. I provided multiple examples of reasons for disliking OCZ. Obviously that is not sufficient for gullible OCZ fanboys or shills on the OCZ payroll. But that is their problem, not mine.

The part where you state "long history of dishonesty" and instead of showing a "history" of it you show a single article that shows nothing since 2002, and expect us to make the jump into "they've been evil Satan for all 10 intervening years."

I think you might want to look up the definition of "multiple."