Religion... why??

[MrWizzard]

Sorry the "what have I got to loose" was not my opinion. Just a thought thrown out there.

I have thought it through, and understand but I really don't expect to be able to explain why I believe on Anand.

I mean look at the reactions that most of the people give in here.

 

[ROTC1983]

Originally posted by: MAME
Religion explains the unexplainable. That's the entire concept.

FYI, there's no proof a supreme doesn't exist either.

Ad Ignorantium...using someone's ignorance to proof something...I believe that both sides of the camp will have to try better.

 

[MAME]

Originally posted by: ROTC1983

Originally posted by: MAME
Religion explains the unexplainable. That's the entire concept.

FYI, there's no proof a supreme doesn't exist either.

Ad Ignorantium...using someone's ignorance to proof something...I believe that both sides of the camp will have to try better.

Ad Ignorantiam

of course religion feeds on ignorance, that's the whole point, as stated

 

Originally posted by: andrewjm

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: andrewjm

Originally posted by: SampSon
There is no "scientific" evidence god doesn't exist.

You will find your spirituality when you're older, hopefully not too late.

I will respond by assuming you believe in god...

You can't say that something exists without proving it. It is your responsibility to prove that it exists if you say it exists. You cannot just say something is a certain way and it is true until someone proves you wrong. That's not how science is.

Yeah, it's proving a negative, and it's antithetical to one of the foundational tenets of scientific philosophy: falsifiability. It really doesn't matter though, because the same argument will be used ad nauseum in any thread on religion.

"I believe God exists."
"Prove it."
"You prove he doesn't."

And 'round and 'round we go.

This is not just "proving a negative".... it is an unrestricted negative, which is a claim to the effect that something doesn't exist anywhere. If you say you can't prove god doesn't exist, you can use that same logic on almost anything. you can say people can fly without any special aid. you can say you can walk through walls (just don't wanna show anyone).

the existence in god is illogical and defies all laws of science that everything else in this world follows.

Everything else? So is light a particle or a wave? Explain to me quantum physics.

But seriously, saying the scientific method is flawed just shows you don't understand the scientific method. The core of the scientific method is that of revision, so an approximation of truth follows a ontogenic reevaluation of observational evidence. It simply makes no sense to say what you have said.

Ok the scientific method itself is not "flawed", poor choice of words. Scientific method says something is true if we can prove it true, until we can prove it false. So scientific method is simply human observation.
Humans cannot comprehend everything the universe has to offer, nor can the scientific methods and matematics we have to use. Its completely pompous to think we can prove everything with our limited systems of thinking.
When you prove something with a certain system that makes the condition true within the contraints of that system. That does not mean it is true everywhere. Another system can prove the same conditions false.
The "scientific method" is a cop out. It's a way for us to say, "we can make assumptions until we prove ourselves wrong/right, then we leave that conclusion open-ended until we can prove ourselves further right or wrong. There is no end to the method. What if all the methods we use are fundamentally flawed, then all of our conclusions and systems are false, including the "scientific method".

 

[Gurck]

I seem to remember a study showing that we're genetically preprogrammed to believe in religion, much like we're genetically preprogrammed to learn a language, and in many cases, to be fearful of snakes, spiders, etc. It would make sense, as religion has helped in the past to forward civilization, and those without the belief / desire would have lost the battle of evolution. It is no longer needed, however.

 

[edro]

God is more of an idea... not actually a person or being.

I believe "God" as christians call it, is a "life force", mainly made of the same stuff as feelings, compassion, dreams, self awareness, and love.

 

[MAME]

Originally posted by: edro13
God is more of an idea... not actually a person or being.

I believe "God" as christians call it, is a "life force", mainly made of the same stuff as feelings, compassion, dreams, self awareness, and love.

Wow Sci Fi!

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: andrewjm

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: andrewjm

Originally posted by: SampSon
There is no "scientific" evidence god doesn't exist.

You will find your spirituality when you're older, hopefully not too late.

I will respond by assuming you believe in god...

You can't say that something exists without proving it. It is your responsibility to prove that it exists if you say it exists. You cannot just say something is a certain way and it is true until someone proves you wrong. That's not how science is.

Yeah, it's proving a negative, and it's antithetical to one of the foundational tenets of scientific philosophy: falsifiability. It really doesn't matter though, because the same argument will be used ad nauseum in any thread on religion.

"I believe God exists."
"Prove it."
"You prove he doesn't."

And 'round and 'round we go.

This is not just "proving a negative".... it is an unrestricted negative, which is a claim to the effect that something doesn't exist anywhere. If you say you can't prove god doesn't exist, you can use that same logic on almost anything. you can say people can fly without any special aid. you can say you can walk through walls (just don't wanna show anyone).

the existence in god is illogical and defies all laws of science that everything else in this world follows.

Everything else? So is light a particle or a wave? Explain to me quantum physics.

What does the proverbial particle-wave duality have to do with anything discussed here? Are you just trying to be rhetorical? Quantum mechanics is not some quixotic theory derived out of air thinner than than that in our thermosphere; rather, it's a quantitative description that remains accurate enough to allow us to use it very productively. The fact that the ostensible dual nature of entities on the Planck scale is non-intuitive to those existing on a macroscopic scale goes without saying. Our limitation of direct experience does not imply limitation of understanding.

But seriously, saying the scientific method is flawed just shows you don't understand the scientific method. The core of the scientific method is that of revision, so an approximation of truth follows a ontogenic reevaluation of observational evidence. It simply makes no sense to say what you have said.

Ok the scientific method itself is not "flawed", poor choice of words. Scientific method says something is true if we can prove it true, until we can prove it false. So scientific method is simply human observation.

Scientific method is NOT just human observation. There is inductive and deductive reasoning, and many foundational theories were derived a priori!

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Gurck
I seem to remember a study showing that we're genetically preprogrammed to believe in religion, much like we're genetically preprogrammed to learn a language, and in many cases, to be fearful of snakes, spiders, etc. It would make sense, as religion has helped in the past to forward civilization, and those without the belief / desire would have lost the battle of evolution. It is no longer needed, however.

Maybe we should admire sadam hussein. Without a belief in God is it not just basically survival of the fittest. I mean here is this guy whoe rose from poverty to crush his people. He lived the high life off the sweat and work of others. People feared him.

Is this what we should aspire to?

Afterall we may have only 70 years on this rock, why toil away for a small paycheck, hoping the world will correct itself. I will be dead in a few decades. Hell if I am going to sweat and work so the people that come after me live off my hard work. If it feels good now, do it. Since it is just a genetic preprogramming, no one will be upset with me when I scam hundreds of older people out of their life savings. Then I will live on the beach and enjoy myself.

 

[Stojakapimp]

you're retarded

 

[kage69]

There is inductive and deductive reasoning, and many foundational theories were derived a priori!

Bingo!

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Gurck
I seem to remember a study showing that we're genetically preprogrammed to believe in religion, much like we're genetically preprogrammed to learn a language, and in many cases, to be fearful of snakes, spiders, etc. It would make sense, as religion has helped in the past to forward civilization, and those without the belief / desire would have lost the battle of evolution. It is no longer needed, however.

Maybe we should admire sadam hussein. Without a belief in God is it not just basically survival of the fittest. I mean here is this guy whoe rose from poverty to crush his people. He lived the high life off the sweat and work of others. People feared him.

Is this what we should aspire to?

Afterall we may have only 70 years on this rock, why toil away for a small paycheck, hoping the world will correct itself. I will be dead in a few decades. Hell if I am going to sweat and work so the people that come after me live off my hard work. If it feels good now, do it. Since it is just a genetic preprogramming, no one will be upset with me when I scam hundreds of older people out of their life savings. Then I will live on the beach and enjoy myself.

Yep, you hit the nail on the head. Us heathens are all dictators :roll: Go back under your rock/church/etc please, and stop posting.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Gurck
I seem to remember a study showing that we're genetically preprogrammed to believe in religion, much like we're genetically preprogrammed to learn a language, and in many cases, to be fearful of snakes, spiders, etc. It would make sense, as religion has helped in the past to forward civilization, and those without the belief / desire would have lost the battle of evolution. It is no longer needed, however.

Maybe we should admire sadam hussein. Without a belief in God is it not just basically survival of the fittest. I mean here is this guy whoe rose from poverty to crush his people. He lived the high life off the sweat and work of others. People feared him.

Is this what we should aspire to?

Afterall we may have only 70 years on this rock, why toil away for a small paycheck, hoping the world will correct itself. I will be dead in a few decades. Hell if I am going to sweat and work so the people that come after me live off my hard work. If it feels good now, do it. Since it is just a genetic preprogramming, no one will be upset with me when I scam hundreds of older people out of their life savings. Then I will live on the beach and enjoy myself.

No, it's not survival of the fittest.

You see, not everyone requires religion to establish a moral character. I don't need polemic proselytes to tell me that my moral character should be congruous with their own. You somehow equate lack of religion with anarchy and wanton behavior. This is an unfortunately superficial perception of human behavior.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: andrewjm
Don't wanna start a huge war over the existence of god, cause I know it'll get nasty. But I was just wondering how someone could be so religious that they change their way of life just to "please" jesus or god.

There is NO scentific proof of the existence of a supreme being. Why would you believe in something you cannot see nor prove and have no evidence whatsoever that it exists. Do you believe in purple elephants? I doubt it... but why? cause you've never seen them? theres no evidence? How about god... you've never seen him... theres no evidence...

because one can gain a whole lot of joy from life by living it for somebody other than himself.

What I don't understand is how people can live their lifes so selfishly always lost and alone with no connection or purpose.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Descartes


No, it's not survival of the fittest.

You see, not everyone requires religion to establish a moral character. I don't need polemic proselytes to tell me that my moral character should be congruous with their own. You somehow equate lack of religion with anarchy and wanton behavior. This is an unfortunately superficial perception of human behavior.

What point is there to moral behavior? Other than staying out of jail why should I behave?

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: andrewjm
Don't wanna start a huge war over the existence of god, cause I know it'll get nasty. But I was just wondering how someone could be so religious that they change their way of life just to "please" jesus or god.

There is NO scentific proof of the existence of a supreme being. Why would you believe in something you cannot see nor prove and have no evidence whatsoever that it exists. Do you believe in purple elephants? I doubt it... but why? cause you've never seen them? theres no evidence? How about god... you've never seen him... theres no evidence...

because one can gain a whole lot of joy from life by living it for somebody other than himself.

What I don't understand is how people can live their lifes so selfishly always lost and alone with no connection or purpose.

I'm content. You seem to care more about others' beliefs than your own self - who's on top here?

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Descartes


No, it's not survival of the fittest.

You see, not everyone requires religion to establish a moral character. I don't need polemic proselytes to tell me that my moral character should be congruous with their own. You somehow equate lack of religion with anarchy and wanton behavior. This is an unfortunately superficial perception of human behavior.

What point is there to moral behavior? Other than staying out of jail why should I behave?

It forwards the advancement of the species, it's often reciprocated, helps us to form interpersonal bonds and fit in, which is more genetic programming. Just off the top of my head.

 

[Torched]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Descartes


No, it's not survival of the fittest.

You see, not everyone requires religion to establish a moral character. I don't need polemic proselytes to tell me that my moral character should be congruous with their own. You somehow equate lack of religion with anarchy and wanton behavior. This is an unfortunately superficial perception of human behavior.

What point is there to moral behavior? Other than staying out of jail why should I behave?

You shouldn't... No one expects you to

unless you are responsible to some one

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Descartes


No, it's not survival of the fittest.

You see, not everyone requires religion to establish a moral character. I don't need polemic proselytes to tell me that my moral character should be congruous with their own. You somehow equate lack of religion with anarchy and wanton behavior. This is an unfortunately superficial perception of human behavior.

What point is there to moral behavior? Other than staying out of jail why should I behave?

I can't say the point of moral behavior without eliciting my personal philosophy of such considerations. By saying this I obviously suggest that I believe such considerations should be personal; I do very much indeed. I don't believe science should be a tool employed to justify or deny spirituality. I treat them as disparate intellectual facets of the same reality. My appreciation for something is both spiritual and cerebral in most cases, but I don't understand how one should attempt to commingle with the other. For example, when I look through my telescopes I am awestruck by the obvious beauty of certain objects, but my appreciation for their scientistic value is just as profound; however, they are separate appreciations. Anyway, enough of what I think.

 

[Feldenak]

My question to you is....why do you care? Most religious people are not fundamental, preachy, fire-n-brimstone kinda folks. You fundamental atheists are as bad as the fundie religious folks.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: rudder


What point is there to moral behavior? Other than staying out of jail why should I behave?

It forwards the advancement of the species, it's often reciprocated, helps us to form interpersonal bonds and fit in, which is more genetic programming. Just off the top of my head.

Why would I care about if the species advances? I am here now and will be forever gone when I die. All my work is useless to me then.

Good responses from everyone. Just trying to have fun with this topic, but its time to go home.

 

[yukichigai]

When you're raised Catholic the message is "do it or you'll burn in hell forever." Once it occured to me that this was an abject trampling of independant thought I decided not to play by the Catholic rules.

The only thing I go by is what some important Catholic and Christian figures have identified as the most important thing Jesus ever said (if you believe Jesus existed): Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Even if you don't believe in anything religious it's still a good motto to live by.

 

[jyates]

Originally posted by: andrewjm
Don't wanna start a huge war over the existence of god, cause I know it'll get nasty. But I was just wondering how someone could be so religious that they change their way of life just to "please" jesus or god.

There is NO scentific proof of the existence of a supreme being. Why would you believe in something you cannot see nor prove and have no evidence whatsoever that it exists. Do you believe in purple elephants? I doubt it... but why? cause you've never seen them? theres no evidence? How about god... you've never seen him... theres no evidence...

You can't see air but you're breathing aren't you?
Now before you go to harping that we have equipment to
prove that air is there did they have that equipment centuries
ago? Did those people not believe in air because they couldn't
prove it was there?

Does believeing or not believeing in anything change whether it is real or not?

Face it.....you aren't going to ask a question about God or religion on ATOT and not
start a "huge war" over the existence of God. It ain't going to happen here.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: rudder


What point is there to moral behavior? Other than staying out of jail why should I behave?

It forwards the advancement of the species, it's often reciprocated, helps us to form interpersonal bonds and fit in, which is more genetic programming. Just off the top of my head.

Why would I care about if the species advances? I am here now and will be forever gone when I die. All my work is useless to me then.

Good responses from everyone. Just trying to have fun with this topic, but its time to go home.

You don't have to care, but it's just not a very solid reproductive strategy. The difference between you and lower animals is that you have a "choice" of strategies. Choose as you wish, but you'll pay the biological price if you choose poorly.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: kage69

Synonymous terms for the most part.

*buzzzzzzer* Sorry, incorrect. All your cheese is now forfeit to us.

The thing about cheese is that pretty soon you get into a religious jihad regarding which cheese is "better", "morally pure", and "appropriate": Cheddar or Swiss

I have this mental image of Cheddar lovers randomly beheading Swiss lovers, and perpetrating terrorist attacks (i.e. suicide bombings, flying airplanes into buildings owned by Swiss cheese-loving nations, etc.)

(Come to think of it, that's about as arbitrary as religion, is it not?)

 

[yhelothar]

Religious people that have that much faith claim they feel God's presence and claim they have talked to them before.
I've talked to this pastor, who claims he has conversations with God on a daily basis.
He says he just gets thoughts that just suddenly pop into his head like God is talking to him, that he would have never have thought of.
I have a very Christian friend that tries to prove to me that religion is not based on faith but on fact.
He believes there is solid evidence that proves the existence of God.
:Q