Religion

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: oldman420

Originally posted by: RichardE
If you are not religious, why?

not religious due to the uncertainty of god I just don't get it.

besides according to every religion in the world every other religion is going to hell, hmm see ya there

Yes, all those religions are at least right about that.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: oldman420

Originally posted by: RichardE
If you are not religious, why?

not religious due to the uncertainty of god I just don't get it.

besides according to every religion in the world every other religion is going to hell, hmm see ya there

Yes, all those religions are at least right about that.

Exactly, if all those religions believed in it in the first place then you would have something to fear.

 

[OCNewbie]

If given a preference, would I prefer there to be a God or no God? I'd prefer there be a God, so there was an afterlife, and I would be able to reuinite with lost loved ones, and not be limited to a life of just ~75 or so years (if I'm lucky) on this planet.

While the idea of an afterlife sure is appealing, there's a distinct possibility that there isn't one, and when you die, that's the end of the road. Sure that's a less inspired view, but reality doesn't follow any fairy tale rules, or follow the story that we would most prefer.

There is no proof of any existance of God that I've ever heard of, only claims and stories from regular men and women.

I hope a God exists, but I consider myself Agnostic since I have to way to know for sure whether God exists or does not, but I do acknowledge both possibilties.

And as far as Religion goes, I'm on the side that Religion, in an organized fashion especially, causes much more problems than any benefits it may bring.

There are too many Religions that all claim to be "the right one", and have similar old books to confirm this. All these religions belive with equal fervor that their religion is the only one to be followed, and is the roadmap to an afterlife, etc. I'm more inclined to believe they're all wrong, than one of them being the "right one".

How do you tell Billy Graham, or Osama Bin Laden that Islam or Christianity is the true religion of God/Allah? Each religion preaches conflicting ways to live life, yet they all have similar or equal levels of devotion, and their followers are equally convinced that their respective religion is the only one to follow. Again, even if one of these religions was truly the "right one", that would make many othere religions "flawed", and any religion brough upon by a higher power such as God, cannot be flawed, or it would thereby be debunked IMO.

It's pretty amazing what people can convince themselves of, "feeling" the presence of God, "Trust me, I KNOW he is there, just believe me", things like that. Heck, I grew up religious, and even into my early 20's (I'm 28 now), I believed wholeheartedly in God, etc. But it's really hard to rapidly change your thoughts on reality when the reality you've been presented with your whole life you find is possibly misguided. I grew up in a fairly religious Baptist/Christian family, went to church at least once a week, said prayers before every meal, was taught to pray at night, the whole she-bang. And that was from birth till at least the age of 11 or so, then went a little less often (parents split up when I was 11) till I was 23 or so.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: themusgrat
(snipped engineereeyore)

And to cerb, as a Christian, I believe that God basically made up our ideas of right and wrong. I don't think that they have evolved, other than being applicable to different instances. Yes, we all mess up, and I'm sure that missionaries have too. It's hard to see exactly what you are talking about. And I'm not sure what the last question is either.

You believe that your god had these words written for you (those in the Bible), and they are 'His word'. What is it that lets you know that it is the correct set of words (referring to source, not nitpicking)?

What is it that lets you know the messages I think are the correct ones are not?

That is, How do you know that the Bible is correct, and The Book of the Law is not correct?

Now, with that, is there an answer to those questions which can satisfy each person, without a person being wrong? Is it even possible to be sure that you are correct, and not someone with very different beliefs? If so, how?

 

[Bumrush99]

Originally posted by: ntdz
I'm not religious because I've been provided with exactly no evidence of any God, among other reasons.

Exactly

 

[themusgrat]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: themusgrat
(snipped engineereeyore)

And to cerb, as a Christian, I believe that God basically made up our ideas of right and wrong. I don't think that they have evolved, other than being applicable to different instances. Yes, we all mess up, and I'm sure that missionaries have too. It's hard to see exactly what you are talking about. And I'm not sure what the last question is either.

You believe that your god had these words written for you (those in the Bible), and they are 'His word'. What is it that lets you know that it is the correct set of words (referring to source, not nitpicking)?

What is it that lets you know the messages I think are the correct ones are not?

That is, How do you know that the Bible is correct, and The Book of the Law is not correct?

Now, with that, is there an answer to those questions which can satisfy each person, without a person being wrong? Is it even possible to be sure that you are correct, and not someone with very different beliefs? If so, how?

Some indications that Christianity is right are that first, it has been around forever, and the Bible has sold more than any other book by far. This is not proof, it is an indication that millions of people have thought about this same question and chosen the God of the Bible. The Bible is also pretty much the only book of religion that advocates a personal relationship with God (for that reason, it is not a religion in the truest sense), one where good works do not get you to heaven. Grace abounds for everybody, and Secondly, there are a few religions that are close to this, and I believe that some are that close because they will do anything short of Christianity, and see that the basic tenets of it are right. There cannot be two right religions, if for the fact that Jesus said that He is the only way to heaven. He would be a liar if everything lead to the same place. And finally, since there are so many religions, I have to think that God, in some way, will let you know which is His, one way or another. This is keeping with the Bible's claim that He really does care for us, and will seek us out if we will look for Him. I know that Islam, your example, is not correct, because salvation is dependant upon works, and if you commit suicide, you are rewarded, to name 2 problems.

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

I'm too lazy to be religious. So many rules and observations are required. I think it's all useless.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: themusgrat

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: themusgrat
(snipped engineereeyore)

And to cerb, as a Christian, I believe that God basically made up our ideas of right and wrong. I don't think that they have evolved, other than being applicable to different instances. Yes, we all mess up, and I'm sure that missionaries have too. It's hard to see exactly what you are talking about. And I'm not sure what the last question is either.

You believe that your god had these words written for you (those in the Bible), and they are 'His word'. What is it that lets you know that it is the correct set of words (referring to source, not nitpicking)?

What is it that lets you know the messages I think are the correct ones are not?

That is, How do you know that the Bible is correct, and The Book of the Law is not correct?

Now, with that, is there an answer to those questions which can satisfy each person, without a person being wrong? Is it even possible to be sure that you are correct, and not someone with very different beliefs? If so, how?

Some indications that Christianity is right are that first, it has been around forever,

Only 2000 years. By that metric, Mayans and Jews have it all over Christianity.

and the Bible has sold more than any other book by far. This is not proof, it is an indication that millions of people have thought about this same question and chosen the God of the Bible. The Bible is also pretty much the only book of religion that advocates a personal relationship with God (for that reason, it is not a religion in the truest sense), one where good works do not get you to heaven.

--

Grace abounds for everybody, and Secondly, there are a few religions that are close to this, and I believe that some are that close because they will do anything short of Christianity, and see that the basic tenets of it are right. There cannot be two right religions, if for the fact that Jesus said that He is the only way to heaven. He would be a liar if everything lead to the same place.

No, but why does that make it a requirement that others be wrong? In fact, what do we have attributed to Jesus that could not be spun dozens of ways? After all, it was not he that created the faith we call Christianity. It was mostly the work of Paul, initially. How can you know he did not twist it, or that it has not been misinterpreted on down the line?
As an example:
http://www.gnosticchristianity.com/

What is it that leads you to your conclusion? Obviously, solid evidence is out of the question (even explicit atheists lack evidence of their own disbelief, after all).

And finally, since there are so many religions, I have to think that God, in some way, will let you know which is His, one way or another. This is keeping with the Bible's claim that He really does care for us, and will seek us out if we will look for Him. I know that Islam, your example, is not correct, because salvation is dependant upon works, and if you commit suicide, you are rewarded, to name 2 problems.

Er, my example was Thelema, derived from The Book of the Law, scribed by Aleister Crowley, alleged to have been authored by an entity that called itself Aiwass, possessing Crowley during three sessions in three days. The primary tenet is development of self knowledge and understanding, to...you know, I was trying. Then, I thought: Google!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Will
There. Daily laziness quota met .

Anyway, why should your works and actions in life not be what matter? Obviously, it's not a numbers game (good deeds vs. bad deeds), but why should someone who does right by their fellows (or even who genuinely tries to, if they've been raised by those who don't), but is an atheist, undecided agnostic, non-caring agnostic, or Muslim, or Thelemite, or Jew, or some variety of neo-pagan, be less right than someone that does wrong by those around them, but is of your selected belief system, and believes they have a good relationship with God?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: themusgrat

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: themusgrat
(snipped engineereeyore)

And to cerb, as a Christian, I believe that God basically made up our ideas of right and wrong. I don't think that they have evolved, other than being applicable to different instances. Yes, we all mess up, and I'm sure that missionaries have too. It's hard to see exactly what you are talking about. And I'm not sure what the last question is either.

You believe that your god had these words written for you (those in the Bible), and they are 'His word'. What is it that lets you know that it is the correct set of words (referring to source, not nitpicking)?

What is it that lets you know the messages I think are the correct ones are not?

That is, How do you know that the Bible is correct, and The Book of the Law is not correct?

Now, with that, is there an answer to those questions which can satisfy each person, without a person being wrong? Is it even possible to be sure that you are correct, and not someone with very different beliefs? If so, how?

Some indications that Christianity is right are that first, it has been around forever,

Only 2000 years. By that metric, Mayans and Jews have it all over Christianity.

and the Bible has sold more than any other book by far. This is not proof, it is an indication that millions of people have thought about this same question and chosen the God of the Bible. The Bible is also pretty much the only book of religion that advocates a personal relationship with God (for that reason, it is not a religion in the truest sense), one where good works do not get you to heaven.

--

Grace abounds for everybody, and Secondly, there are a few religions that are close to this, and I believe that some are that close because they will do anything short of Christianity, and see that the basic tenets of it are right. There cannot be two right religions, if for the fact that Jesus said that He is the only way to heaven. He would be a liar if everything lead to the same place.

No, but why does that make it a requirement that others be wrong? In fact, what do we have attributed to Jesus that could not be spun dozens of ways? After all, it was not he that created the faith we call Christianity. It was mostly the work of Paul, initially. How can you know he did not twist it, or that it has not been misinterpreted on down the line?
As an example:
http://www.gnosticchristianity.com/

What is it that leads you to your conclusion? Obviously, solid evidence is out of the question (even explicit atheists lack evidence of their own disbelief, after all).

And finally, since there are so many religions, I have to think that God, in some way, will let you know which is His, one way or another. This is keeping with the Bible's claim that He really does care for us, and will seek us out if we will look for Him. I know that Islam, your example, is not correct, because salvation is dependant upon works, and if you commit suicide, you are rewarded, to name 2 problems.

Er, my example was Thelema, derived from The Book of the Law, scribed by Aleister Crowley, alleged to have been authored by an entity that called itself Aiwass, possessing Crowley during three sessions in three days. The primary tenet is development of self knowledge and understanding, to...you know, I was trying. Then, I thought: Google!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Will
There. Daily laziness quota met .

Anyway, why should your works and actions in life not be what matter? Obviously, it's not a numbers game (good deeds vs. bad deeds), but why should someone who does right by their fellows (or even who genuinely tries to, if they've been raised by those who don't), but is an atheist, undecided agnostic, non-caring agnostic, or Muslim, or Thelemite, or Jew, or some variety of neo-pagan, be less right than someone that does wrong by those around them, but is of your selected belief system, and believes they have a good relationship with God?

Since everybody feels completely worthless, the ego can make a huge deal of itself it has an exclusive handle on God. My God is better than your god because I feel so worthless inside.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
(snip snip! look up!)

Since everybody feels completely worthless, the ego can make a huge deal of itself it has an exclusive handle on God. My God is better than your god because I feel so worthless inside.

is that a good worthless, a bad worthless, or a neutral worthless?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
(snip snip! look up!)

Since everybody feels completely worthless, the ego can make a huge deal of itself it has an exclusive handle on God. My God is better than your god because I feel so worthless inside.

is that a good worthless, a bad worthless, or a neutral worthless?

Well, I would say there is no good or bad and I guess that rules out neutral. I would say, though, that it is a false worthlessness, though because there is nothing really wrong with anybody. Worthlessness comes from being told you are worthless at a time when you have no defense and no realization that words are just noises in the air without any reality at all when they are abstractions. Without language everybody would feel perfect because there would be no thinker to separate us from what is thought. There would be only the infinite now of being. So since God realization is just a return to the unity of being there is really only one God. So I think people are just arguing over whose wrong idea of God is better. But ideas about God are all about words and thoughts and those things are out the window when there is being. So God is not in heaven or doesn't have a beard and is none of the things that people visualize. God is the unification of consciousness that makes you exclaim, Ah yes I see. This Oneness is perfection so it deserves a name like God.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
(snip snip! look up!)

Since everybody feels completely worthless, the ego can make a huge deal of itself it has an exclusive handle on God. My God is better than your god because I feel so worthless inside.

is that a good worthless, a bad worthless, or a neutral worthless?

Well, I would say there is no good or bad and I guess that rules out neutral. I would say, though, that it is a false worthlessness, though because there is nothing really wrong with anybody. Worthlessness comes from being told you are worthless at a time when you have no defense and no realization that words are just noises in the air without any reality at all when they are abstractions. Without language everybody would feel perfect because there would be no thinker to separate us from what is thought. There would be only the infinite now of being. So since God realization is just a return to the unity of being there is really only one God. So I think people are just arguing over whose wrong idea of God is better. But ideas about God are all about words and thoughts and those things are out the window when there is being. So God is not in heaven or doesn't have a beard and is none of the things that people visualize. God is the unification of consciousness that makes you exclaim, Ah yes I see. This Oneness is perfection so it deserves a name like God.

But, I don't call it "God", and think there might be things wrong with some people. So I'm right, you're wrong, you need to be told you're wrong, and then I need to note that I am right (publicly), and am going to end up better off than you.

But, before that, we were going towards the same thing (yeah, potentially shortcutting another couple of days of questioning themusgrat)...

...and why does this keep happening, really? Hundreds of years of Christians splitting apart, now the Muslims are starting to do it.

 

[ItSells]

Originally posted by: RichardE
If you are not religious, why?

If you are, why?

Lets try to keep this to answers just to this OP and not comment on each others post.

I hate god.
How does that count?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
(snip snip! look up!)

Since everybody feels completely worthless, the ego can make a huge deal of itself it has an exclusive handle on God. My God is better than your god because I feel so worthless inside.

is that a good worthless, a bad worthless, or a neutral worthless?

Well, I would say there is no good or bad and I guess that rules out neutral. I would say, though, that it is a false worthlessness, though because there is nothing really wrong with anybody. Worthlessness comes from being told you are worthless at a time when you have no defense and no realization that words are just noises in the air without any reality at all when they are abstractions. Without language everybody would feel perfect because there would be no thinker to separate us from what is thought. There would be only the infinite now of being. So since God realization is just a return to the unity of being there is really only one God. So I think people are just arguing over whose wrong idea of God is better. But ideas about God are all about words and thoughts and those things are out the window when there is being. So God is not in heaven or doesn't have a beard and is none of the things that people visualize. God is the unification of consciousness that makes you exclaim, Ah yes I see. This Oneness is perfection so it deserves a name like God.

But, I don't call it "God", and think there might be things wrong with some people. So I'm right, you're wrong, you need to be told you're wrong, and then I need to note that I am right (publicly), and am going to end up better off than you.

But, before that, we were going towards the same thing (yeah, potentially shortcutting another couple of days of questioning themusgrat)...

...and why does this keep happening, really? Hundreds of years of Christians splitting apart, now the Muslims are starting to do it.

Cargo Cults, I guess. Then there is the Elephant in the Dark.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: ItSells

Originally posted by: RichardE
If you are not religious, why?

If you are, why?

Lets try to keep this to answers just to this OP and not comment on each others post.

I hate god.
How does that count?

Probably a reasonable start. If you hate could grow and grow and grow it would take you to the deep sadness of separation from Him your hate is there to hide.

 

[imported_Condor]

I would class myself as agnostic, but have felt that strong hand on my shoulder more than once. I have been close to death enough to know that it wasn't just me and physics that kept me alive and whole. I have known enough preachers to know that being churchy is not the same as being religious. Church is social, belief is life. I believe there is something more than us (understandably, liberals just can't envision anything being greater than them) but would hesitate to put a tag on that.