Remember that shutdown Trump WILL have?

[nakedfrog]

The GoP says the bill their party brought to the floor a couple weeks ago that they refuse to bring to the floor now was to avoid a shut down, not end one. But for all practical purposes, what in the fuck is the difference?

Trump wet the bed, and now you have to lie in it.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

and this

 

[Jhhnn]

And yet all the Republicans on Face the Nation and other pundent shows all insist it's all the Democrats fault and these things wouldn't happen if they just rubber stamped Trump's agenda.

Republicans lie? Tell me something I didn't know. Here- pull my finger...

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

The blame lays squarely with Trump. He owned the shutdown before it started.

He owned it, but the Republicans have the ability to end it at this point. Rather than taking the high road as it were and halting this idiocy, they're leveraging it for $reasons, as per fuckin' usual.

 

[SMOGZINN]

McConnell is laying back, watching Trump burn off political capital like it was going out of style. It's a dick move wrt the country, but Mitch DGAF. Trump double crossed him & is now on his own. Enjoy your ass-whupping, Mr President.

Trump treats political capital just like he does economic capital. He spends it on whatever catches his fancy today and if he runs out he borrows more from Russia.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Found it, good analysis

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/08/6831...nce-on-a-border-wall-turning-into-a-liability

INSKEEP: It's a symbol.​

​

KRIKORIAN: And, in fact - well, it's not just a symbol. I mean, we actually do need some more border barriers in various places. We have some. We need more. But it was a shorthand. It was a way to tell people - look; I'm not the usual lying politician. I'm actually serious about this. And it was effective as that. The problem is that now that, you know, the administration's been around for a couple of years, you have to follow through to some degree. And the Democrats have determined - accurately, I think - that the president's focus on the wall was a vulnerability, was an opportunity for the Democrats to deny him that in an attempt, basically, to show his impotence​

​

INSKEEP: And now he is desperate. Or you fear he will be desperate to give up anything to get the wall?​

​

KRIKORIAN: Yeah. I've always kind of worried about that, that he was going to give the Democrats far more than really was warranted in exchange for the wall. Because more border barriers, like I said, they're important. But there are other things that are more important, things like plugging loopholes in our asylum laws, E-Verify and what have you.​

​

It's kind of interesting. The president, on the one hand, really is, I think, desperate to have a success here. But the other side is that the Democrats really do seem to be obsessed in denying him a win on this. And the question is, is that obsession almost Captain Ahab-like, from "Moby Dick," to get the orange whale? Is that going to be a bigger problem for them, or is the president's desperation to get the wall going to be the bigger issue?​

I encourage you to read through or listen to it, it’s a good summation.

 

[Artorias]

I know if nuts to think of a military coup, but somethings got to give sooner or later.

 

[UglyCasanova]

A military coup because you don’t want a wall built on the border?

 

[Ryan Good]

Our glorious wall will be built.

 

[UglyCasanova]

First post..? Who are (were) ya

 

[fskimospy]

Found it, good analysis

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/08/6831...nce-on-a-border-wall-turning-into-a-liability

INSKEEP: It's a symbol.​

​

KRIKORIAN: And, in fact - well, it's not just a symbol. I mean, we actually do need some more border barriers in various places. We have some. We need more. But it was a shorthand. It was a way to tell people - look; I'm not the usual lying politician. I'm actually serious about this. And it was effective as that. The problem is that now that, you know, the administration's been around for a couple of years, you have to follow through to some degree. And the Democrats have determined - accurately, I think - that the president's focus on the wall was a vulnerability, was an opportunity for the Democrats to deny him that in an attempt, basically, to show his impotence​

​

INSKEEP: And now he is desperate. Or you fear he will be desperate to give up anything to get the wall?​

​

KRIKORIAN: Yeah. I've always kind of worried about that, that he was going to give the Democrats far more than really was warranted in exchange for the wall. Because more border barriers, like I said, they're important. But there are other things that are more important, things like plugging loopholes in our asylum laws, E-Verify and what have you.​

​

It's kind of interesting. The president, on the one hand, really is, I think, desperate to have a success here. But the other side is that the Democrats really do seem to be obsessed in denying him a win on this. And the question is, is that obsession almost Captain Ahab-like, from "Moby Dick," to get the orange whale? Is that going to be a bigger problem for them, or is the president's desperation to get the wall going to be the bigger issue?​

I encourage you to read through or listen to it, it’s a good summation.

The views of an ultra right wing nativist organization leader isn’t exactly a good summation of the issue.

There is not one single mention of the thing that keeps getting repeated to you and you keep ignoring: if someone takes a hostage and you ransom the hostage you just encourage them to take more hostages.

Under no circumstances should the Democrats give in to Trump on legislative priorities he couldn’t get passed otherwise because he’s decided to take the basic functions of governance hostage. The only responsible answer is to give him nothing.

This is country before party. Always always remember, country before party.

 

[Ryan Good]

This is country before party. Always always remember, country before party.

Yeah so build the wall......

 

[UglyCasanova]

There is not one single mention of the thing that keeps getting repeated to you and you keep ignoring: if someone takes a hostage and you ransom the hostage you just encourage them to take more hostages.

Which is why continuing resolution bills shouldn’t exist. Pay for what you buy, paying the bills shouldn’t be something you can hold people hostage over. I disagree that the issue is anything more than symbolism for trump or the Dems though.

 

[fskimospy]

Yeah so build the wall......

But that would waste tax dollars, not make us more secure, and lower US GDP. Why would we do something so silly?

 

[fskimospy]

Which is why continuing resolution bills shouldn’t exist. Pay for what you buy, paying the bills shouldn’t be something you can hold people hostage over. I disagree that the issue is anything more than symbolism for trump or the Dems though.

Not having continuing resolutions would not stop people from holding the government hostage, they would just do it over the regular appropriations.

If Trump truly wants the wall it is entirely within his power to get it, he just has to be willing to offer sufficient concessions to the Democrats on immigration. Instead he’s decided to hold the government hostage. You will know when he’s serious when he starts doing that. Until then it’s in the best interests of the country that he gets nothing.

Let’s be serious here if Trump gets what he wants what are the odds he pulls the exact same stunt again next time the government needs to be funded? About 100%. It’s time to teach him the stove is hot.

 

[brycejones]

But that would waste tax dollars, not make us more secure, and lower US GDP. Why would we do something so silly?

Because simple minded people are easily conned by con men offering simple solutions?

 

[feralkid]

lol. He'd eat it out of Trump's ass and ask for more.

Full Peanut Sundae?

 

[ivwshane]

Because simple minded people are easily conned by con men offering simple solutions?

Which is why, when congress came together and passed a bipartisan deal that included his border wall money, he said no deal.

With a wall being built, trumps base no longer has a need for him. Trump doesn't need the wall, he needs people to need a wall.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Yeah so build the wall......

What do you think the wall has to do with this country?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Yeah so build the wall......

Why? I was told Mexico was going to pay.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Which is why, when congress came together and passed a bipartisan deal that included his border wall money, he said no deal.

With a wall being built, trumps base no longer has a need for him. Trump doesn't need the wall, he needs people to need a wall.

Shit the President had his 5 billion for the wall his first month during his first meetup with Chuck & Nancy. The Presidents own party didn’t like that deal.

 

[DisarmedDespot]

I don't know why you people even reply to UC. Dude thinks that the Dems have no good arguments against the wall despite agreeing it's wasteful and won't work, and that the feelingz of Republicans who want the wall for dumb reasons trump anything any Democrat can say.

 

[UglyCasanova]

I didn’t say they don’t have good arguements, but I did say the symbolism is the true reason this fight is going on. Don’t misrepresent what I say.

 

[DisarmedDespot]

I didn’t say they don’t have good arguements, but I did say the symbolism is the true reason this fight is going on. Don’t misrepresent what I say.

It's hard not to when you're terrible at conveying meaning.

Do you think the Dems only started opposing the wall because Trump wanted it?

 

[Ryan Good]

But that would waste tax dollars, not make us more secure, and lower US GDP. Why would we do something so silly?

Why do you and the democrats stand on the same side of this issue as MS-13?