Remember that shutdown Trump WILL have?

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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
You don't get away with that crap. If you were to visit other sites you will see how many are acting just as I said. You could kick a dog and say "Mitt Romney! You went both sides". In this your thinking is a major problem, that when a serious threat being proposed and adopted by your "own" is to be ignored or trivialized.

That's your other side of the coin, your equivalent of Mitch and "Mueller doesn't need protection".

Just had to bring up both sides in something that matters in a universal way.

No Democratic leaders have proposed what you insinuated they might, which is to declare a national emergency over something that isn't an emergency. There has been a fair number of others offering up such actions as a cautionary tale for our GOP brethren.

Your swipe at Democrats was uncalled for.
 
Reactions: Aegeon

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
No Democratic leaders have proposed what you insinuated they might, which is to declare a national emergency over something that isn't an emergency. There has been a fair number of others offering up such actions as a cautionary tale for our GOP brethren.

Your swipe at Democrats was uncalled for.


The controlling members of the GOP and Trump are seeking to destroy our Constitution and call for an Imperial Presidency, one that can do all things.

Find "Democratic leaders" in the above. Fail.

The obvious problem is precedent. The leaders of the future are unknown so we don't know what ANY of them will do. But would you like universal coverage? Yes you would. It's been argued as a national emergency, a crisis of great import. But maybe the solution would be to declare a national emergency. Congress, the Constitution? Well we can't afford to worry about that now. The President has no choice...

That is precisely how I expect the apologists to act in circling the wagons. You are on that list of potential usurpers for the "greater good" of course. But today? In terms of leadership, I stand with the Dems and you are going to have a pretty damn hard time factually challenging that.

That said, there ARE people on the left who ARE now seeing this a possible approach for all the things you might want. Bypass elections, bypass Congress. We need an effective monarch on "our" side. That idea is out there now, no "bothsides" crap.

The question is if that sentiment will grow now that it's in the public mind or fade and that no one can answer. If it grows then I wonder how many here will make excuses for it. At least a few.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,803
29,553
146
It seems you’re answering a question I didn’t ask?

Well, when you stop inventing history that never happened, and base your entire argument on top of these hilariously false claims, maybe people will take you more seriously? I know: sounds hard.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,699
15,941
136
The controlling members of the GOP and Trump are seeking to destroy our Constitution and call for an Imperial Presidency, one that can do all things.

Find "Democratic leaders" in the above. Fail.

The obvious problem is precedent. The leaders of the future are unknown so we don't know what ANY of them will do. But would you like universal coverage? Yes you would. It's been argued as a national emergency, a crisis of great import. But maybe the solution would be to declare a national emergency. Congress, the Constitution? Well we can't afford to worry about that now. The President has no choice...

That is precisely how I expect the apologists to act in circling the wagons. You are on that list of potential usurpers for the "greater good" of course. But today? In terms of leadership, I stand with the Dems and you are going to have a pretty damn hard time factually challenging that.

That said, there ARE people on the left who ARE now seeing this a possible approach for all the things you might want. Bypass elections, bypass Congress. We need an effective monarch on "our" side. That idea is out there now, no "bothsides" crap.

The question is if that sentiment will grow now that it's in the public mind or fade and that no one can answer. If it grows then I wonder how many here will make excuses for it. At least a few.

Hmm interesting, seems like second term Presidents will get a the shit done they want to get done.
I agree it’s dangerous territory even if it benefits stuff I like.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,650
5,224
136
Yes?

The wall is a base play. Nothing more. The reason for the wall is symbolism. At least on his side. On the Dem side it is a matter of policy and not giving into toddlers throwing tantrums. That we absolutely agree on.

Agree here.

For GOP it's a symbolic measure.

For Democrats, beyond the (lack of) merit of the proposal, there is a matter of principal of how policy is made in a democracy. Demanding your way, offering no compromises to work in good faith, instead resorting to hostage-taking, has been Republican tactic for better part 25 years. For Trump it's been his only tactic and cannot be tolerated or rewarded.

Trump is wrong on policy, wrong on process, and does not have support of the public.
 
Reactions: Aegeon

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,752
34,630
136
Both houses of Congress stand adjourned so this is going to last well into next week at a minimum.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,699
15,941
136
Both houses of Congress stand adjourned so this is going to last well into next week at a minimum.

They’ll come back in an instant provided either

The President says he’ll sign something.

Congress gets enough together for an override.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
That said, there ARE people on the left who ARE now seeing this a possible approach for all the things you might want. Bypass elections, bypass Congress. We need an effective monarch on "our" side. That idea is out there now, no "bothsides" crap.

Which is very much a fringe thing among Libs, often referenced in a tongue in cheek manner. It's mainstream in the GOP, apparently. Nowhere is the American Left involved in a leader cult, other than perhaps with Bernie. We're not authoritarian by nature.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Which is very much a fringe thing among Libs, often referenced in a tongue in cheek manner. It's mainstream in the GOP, apparently. Nowhere is the American Left involved in a leader cult, other than perhaps with Bernie. We're not authoritarian by nature.

Unless you have check your humanity at the door "you" collectively are not immune to the abuse of vast power, in a good cause of course.

You argue your incorruptibility and I don't believe you. Terrible things start small.


But a question. If this power is used by a future president to remove guns, give income equality, declare a war on warming, national health care, will you be standing against them or saying "well there was no choice, it would be political suicide to not go along"?

You did just that with justifying past events. You will play apologist and justify whatever happens at that point, the Constitution and Congress be damned.

Tell me in no uncertain terms that you won't support, embrace, mitigate or do anything other than condemning ANY President for declaring an "emergency" in the way it was meant and that does not include any agenda.

Say yes or no. I'll be pleased if you say you will condemn. I expect mitigation or diversion. Suprise us.
 
Reactions: Bitek

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,572
7,823
136
Both houses of Congress stand adjourned so this is going to last well into next week at a minimum.

One thing keeping the government shut, at this point, is McConnell's refusal to bring the bills to a vote because he "knows the President won't sign them." He's refusing to use the power granted to the legislative branch. The majority party in the Senate is refusing to do the job of the Senate, and is handing over all Senate power to Don the Con.
 
Reactions: Zorba

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,572
7,823
136
So, the President is:

1. Proposing an out-of-nowhere emergency declaration, as to...
2. Seize private lands via the...
3. Military

This is exactly what they told themselves for 8 years Obama would do. Hell, even the idiotic Governor of Texas fell for this shit.
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
23,777
4,963
146
Sad that its coming to this:
Now on Craigslist, Facebook: Household items from furloughed workers trying to make ends meet

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...?utm_term=.40f5f865b75d&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

But cheeto said they're all behind him, right?
I would bet, that if he talked to some of these furloughed workers and they said they were
not for what he was doing, later on, cheeto would tweet they were Democratic plants.
 
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