Reminder for those that are flying Nov 24

[Number1]

Thank you! The UCSF letter was very helpful.

I would not give ANY credibility to what he posted. The letter might very well be a forgery for all we know. I mean, look at the other links, prison planet..... LOL.

 

[Vette73]

Where funding comes from for the TSA is not the issue. You are going to the airport to use a service (provided by the airline, not the TSA). You are consenting to the search (whether you like it or not) by choosing to fly on the airline.

Did you even read what cKGunslinger said? If you did you would have seen why I wrote that.

And please show me on an airline ticket where I give up my rights and allow them to either sexual assault me or shot some radiation through me?


Here is what Delta has on their site for ticket rules.
http://www.delta.com/planning_reser...vations/fares_ticketing_rules/index.jsp#rules

Fare / Ticket Rules & Restrictions

Below are the rule and restriction highlights for all refundable and nonrefundable fares.
Fare Restrictions

• Advance Purchase—Fares may or may not require advance purchase. Most of our deeply discounted products may require advance purchases of a 3, 7, 14, or 21 days.
• Length of Stay—Some round-trip fares may have minimum or maximum stay requirements.
• Change Fees—Change fees apply to most ticket changes initiated by the customer.

Ticketing Rules

• Fares and schedules are subject to change without notice.
• All fares are subject to the restrictions that apply to the particular fare.
• Seats are limited and all fares may not be available on all flights.
• Tickets are valid for the named passenger only and are not transferable.

Rules unique to purchases on delta.com:

• When you purchase a ticket here at delta.com, you can view the complete fare and ticket rules at the time of purchase. Look for the Taxes/Fees link next to every quoted fare during your shopping experience.
• Itineraries priced at delta.com include government-imposed transportation taxes & fees that vary depending on your itinerary.
• Only the actual purchase of your ticket(s) will guarantee you will get the quoted fare at delta.com.
• Your ticket can only be canceled from the delta.com Itineraries & Check-in application without penalty if the ticket qualifies for Risk-free Cancellation.

Here is what Southwest has...

http://www.southwest.com/fares/fares.html

 

[jiggahertz]

Did you even read what cKGunslinger said? If you did you would have seen why I wrote that.

And please show me on an airline ticket where I give up my rights and allow them to either sexual assault me or shot some radiation through me?


Here is what Delta has on their site for ticket rules.
http://www.delta.com/planning_reser...vations/fares_ticketing_rules/index.jsp#rules

Fare / Ticket Rules & Restrictions

Below are the rule and restriction highlights for all refundable and nonrefundable fares.
Fare Restrictions

• Advance Purchase—Fares may or may not require advance purchase. Most of our deeply discounted products may require advance purchases of a 3, 7, 14, or 21 days.
• Length of Stay—Some round-trip fares may have minimum or maximum stay requirements.
• Change Fees—Change fees apply to most ticket changes initiated by the customer.

Ticketing Rules

• Fares and schedules are subject to change without notice.
• All fares are subject to the restrictions that apply to the particular fare.
• Seats are limited and all fares may not be available on all flights.
• Tickets are valid for the named passenger only and are not transferable.

Rules unique to purchases on delta.com:

• When you purchase a ticket here at delta.com, you can view the complete fare and ticket rules at the time of purchase. Look for the Taxes/Fees link next to every quoted fare during your shopping experience.
• Itineraries priced at delta.com include government-imposed transportation taxes & fees that vary depending on your itinerary.
• Only the actual purchase of your ticket(s) will guarantee you will get the quoted fare at delta.com.
• Your ticket can only be canceled from the delta.com Itineraries & Check-in application without penalty if the ticket qualifies for Risk-free Cancellation.

Here is what Southwest has...

http://www.southwest.com/fares/fares.html

Yes, I know why you replied as you did to ckgunslinger, I probably should have quoted him instead. Would it change anything in your mind if it was private security vs. TSA?

Your ignorant comment about sexual assault really degrades those who are victims of sexual assualt. The fare rules for delta also don't state you can't bring a gun on board.

 

[gophins72]

full body scan pics are the best porn since national geographic

 

[Homerboy]

full body scan pics are the best porn since national geographic

*Sears Catalog.

 

[Gunslinger08]

I would not give ANY credibility to what he posted. The letter might very well be a forgery for all we know. I mean, look at the other links, prison planet..... LOL.

The letter is posted on NPR's website. The full body scan privacy concern links are news stories and information acquired through the FOIA. The prison planet link is just an article about a video of a radio show host's personal experience. I don't have any concerns about the validity of any of the links. I don't know why you are so worked up about people's concerns?

 

[Aikouka]

I really don't get why people actually give a shit about a scan or a pat down. I've been marked as a random pat down before, and I really did not care. Sure, it's a little odd having some random person touch you, but whatever... in the end, it doesn't hurt you at all.

 

[Vette73]

Yes, I know why you replied as you did to ckgunslinger, I probably should have quoted him instead. Would it change anything in your mind if it was private security vs. TSA?

Your ignorant comment about sexual assault really degrades those who are victims of sexual assualt. The fare rules for delta also don't state you can't bring a gun on board.

Thats because you can bring a gun onboard.
A gun is luggage/item and there are other rules for shipping luggage/items. Not even close to the same as "consenting to the search" as you said.

But here are the rules for "Sports Equipment" i.e. firearms.
http://www.delta.com/traveling_checkin/baggage/special_baggage/sports_equipment/index.jsp#pistols



Apples =/= Guns

Again please show me where buying a ticket I give up my rights while also "consenting to the search".

 

[OCGuy]

Thank you liberals!

Instead of focusing on the real threats, we stop everyone!

I think it was Bil Maher that said "profiling" is just another word for smart police work.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Liberals?

WTF comment was that?

 

[Vette73]

Liberals?

WTF comment was that?

OCGuy is a right winger from P&N so everything bad is because of the "liberals". Just watch faux "news" and you get the idea.

 

[Patranus]

The funnies part over all of this faux outrage is that it is "bloggers" who are the only ones who have had a problem and are ginning up the "outrage".

 

[jiggahertz]

Thats because you can bring a gun onboard.
A gun is luggage/item and there are other rules for shipping luggage/items. Not even close to the same as "consenting to the search" as you said.

But here are the rules for "Sports Equipment" i.e. firearms.
http://www.delta.com/traveling_checkin/baggage/special_baggage/sports_equipment/index.jsp#pistols



Apples =/= Guns

Again please show me where buying a ticket I give up my rights while also "consenting to the search".

You cannot pass through a security checkpoint with a firearm/explosive/biological agent/WMD. You have to pass through security before you can enter the terminal. Can you really be this dense? No one is forcing you to fly, you are choosing to. No one is forcing you to step into that security line. If you don't agree to the terms than don't fly.

 

[Ninjahedge]

The funnies part over all of this faux outrage is that it is "bloggers" who are the only ones who have had a problem and are ginning up the "outrage".

Nah. I think they are the only ones that are outraged, but not the only ones that are annoyed by all this.

The main problem I have is the power trip these guys get from this. They can, almost at will, detain you, strip search you and otherwise inconvenience you or humiliate you if they do not LIKE you.

That is not protection.

Too many studies have proven that giving too much indiscriminate power into the hands of a few always leads to instances of abuse....

 

[Vette73]

You cannot pass through a security checkpoint with a firearm/explosive/biological agent/WMD. You have to pass through security before you can enter the terminal. Can you really be this dense? No one is forcing you to fly, you are choosing to. No one is forcing you to step into that security line. If you don't agree to the terms than don't fly.

You keep trying to change it. I am still waiting for you to show where a part of me buying a ticket I give up my rights and "consenting to the search".

Again YOU said...

Originally Posted by jiggahertz
You are going to the airport to use a service (provided by the airline, not the TSA). You are consenting to the search (whether you like it or not) by choosing to fly on the airline.

 

[jiggahertz]

You keep trying to change it. I am still waiting for you to show where a part of me buying a ticket I give up my rights and "consenting to the search".

Again YOU said...

Originally Posted by jiggahertz
You are going to the airport to use a service (provided by the airline, not the TSA). You are consenting to the search (whether you like it or not) by choosing to fly on the airline.

When you buy a ticket for travel on Delta, you enter into a contract of carriage with us. The terms of your contract are set forth in:
Your ticket
Any tariffs that apply
Our Conditions of Carriage or General Rules Tariff
Delta Air Lines Conditions of Carriage:
Domestic General Rules Tariff (219 KB)
Canadian General Rules Tariff (307 KB)
International Conditions of Carriage (339 KB)

From delta's domestic contract of carriage: Rule 40 ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE
Passengers and their baggage are subject to inspection with an electronic detector with or without the passenger's consent or knowledge.

 

[coxmaster]

You keep trying to change it. I am still waiting for you to show where a part of me buying a ticket I give up my rights and "consenting to the search".

You linked to and read the WRONG page on Delta's site..

Refusal to Transport

Delta's conditions of carriage permit Delta to refuse to transport passengers when:

• Compliance with government regulations or directives is required.

To me that means, unless you comply with the government regulations, you can be refused the right to fly.

 

[Patranus]

Nah. I think they are the only ones that are outraged, but not the only ones that are annoyed by all this.

The main problem I have is the power trip these guys get from this. They can, almost at will, detain you, strip search you and otherwise inconvenience you or humiliate you if they do not LIKE you.

That is not protection.

Too many studies have proven that giving too much indiscriminate power into the hands of a few always leads to instances of abuse....

Accountability for TSA agents isn't what this faux outrage is all about rather people acting like children for attention because they don't want to go through screening. These people are not being singled out for anything. These people *chose* to not go through the body scanner. They made their *choice*. That is why it is faux outrage.

Oh, we wont screen a 3 year old brat because she is screaming. Its not like terrorists have never used children for their attack. Oh wait, you say this is only a story because it is the news casters daughter? Oh well in that case, its national news.

Oh, you *choose* to not go through the body scanner? Its not like terrorists have never tried to hide explosives under their "junk". Oh well, in that case, lets call it "sexual assault" and bitch and moan until I get attention.


Now, if you want to get into TSA accountability, that is another issue.

 

[KMFJD]

horse-pheathers:
1) If you want to get explosives onto a plane, shove them up your ass. Current screening tactics will do nothing to detect this provided you don't give yourself away through erratic behavior (which would just as likely have been detected at a pre-9/11 security screening anyway).
2) The no-fly list is easily circumvented.
3) The screenings create a bottleneck where often hundreds of people are concentrated; you don't even need to smuggle a bomb onto a plane, just detonate it at a crowded security checkpoint instead.
4) Airport employees are generally _not_ screened. If you for some reason don't feel like cramming your bomb up your ass, there's a possibility of getting one of your guys on the inside who can carry the bomb past the screening point for you. Even if employees _were_ screened, you can pretty much just toss your device over the fence where an employee on the inside can retrieve it and put it where it can be used.
5) By creating the illusion of security, it blunts the single best defense you have against a terrorist attack: the alertness of the general public.
6) TSA also makes us less secure by sucking up funding that could be put to much more effective use elsewhere in the "war on terror".
7) By getting people used to invasive searches and other erosions of their rights, the TSA does far more damage to the country than the terrorists could ever dream of doing. The worst they can do is kill people, while convincing the populace to give up their rights will kill everything our country stands for.

Fark the TSA, and fark the US Patriot Act. And fark the cowards that are willing to sell our freedoms for even the illusion of security.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Jigg, that isn't enough.

I am not canning it, but nothing specifically states the rules and procedures for search and seisure here.

Could you look up the ICC and see if it is in there?

The Tariff rules do not apply, and I do not think the ICC applies to threats either, just legal import and export.....

 

[Modelworks]

The TSA is out of control. They patted down a 3 yr old and used the metal detector on her when she cried when they took her teddy bear.
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/mandy-simon-tsa-pats-down-screaming-child-video-2728309.html

 

[Modelworks]

Oh, we wont screen a 3 year old brat because she is screaming. Its not like terrorists have never used children for their attack.

The minute another person puts their hands on my 3 year old for any reason without me expressly allowing it, there is going to be a fight.

 

[Patranus]

The TSA is out of control. They patted down a 3 yr old and used the metal detector on her when she cried when they took her teddy bear.
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/mandy-simon-tsa-pats-down-screaming-child-video-2728309.html

Because terrorists have never used children......

In any event, it is only a story because it was the daughter of a news caster trying to make a name for himself.

That is on the parents. If you can't control your child enough to get through security, you have no business putting them on an airplane.

You notice how all of the faux outrage is from people who are "reporters" with blogs and what not.

 

[Ninjahedge]

KM, agreed.

You can simply core out a few AA batteries.... It does not take much brainpower to come up with ways to conceal.

And the bombings in the airport... isn't that what they did at Tel-Aviv a while back? And in other areas?


Again, nobody has answered my question.

How many attacks have been attempted against the US in the past 9 years?

The nature of Terrorism is to make the threat seem much more than it actually is. Does this mean to not pay attention? No. It means that for every freedom we give up, we are not buying much, if any, real "safety".

BTW, read up on history. Things like this are the way most governments gradually erode the rights of their people. A "common enemy" is a good way to get the attention away from the knife already at your back.

 

[Vette73]

You linked to and read the WRONG page on Delta's site..



To me that means, unless you comply with the government regulations, you can be refused the right to fly.

That would be Delta saying they will not allow you to fly. As it stands now TSA does not say we are going to tell Delta, its TSA saying I can;t fly.

Again if Delta says you can;t fly thats one thing. But I never agreed to TSA's new scanner/assualt system when I bought a ticket.