Remove input lag without Vsync?

[johny2314jj]

I am aware this question has been asked many times, but all the answers are different. Please give me solid information on the matter and please explain how to do this.

I use Sli 590's with a 1080p 60Hz TV.

* I KNOW ITS OVERKILL, PLEASE DONT REMIND ME

* The tv is not what causes the lag because when vsync is off there is no input lag, but the screen tearing is ridiculous

Stuff I have tried so far:

- D3D Overrider Forced Vsync and Triple Buffering (Doesn't make a difference to me)

- DXtory Frame Capping (defiantly reduces input lag when vsync enabled, but still feels slightly sluggish)

IS there any other way to remove screen tearing WITHOUT using vysnc. Please help! Thank You.

EDIT: Title means to say: Remove screen tearing without vsync, because vsync causes damn input lag.

 

[boxleitnerb]

I recently stumbled across the tip to limit the framerate to 1 below the refresh rate. So 59fps for 60Hz. Don't know why but it works, I have tested it myself. Of course no comparison to no vsync, but much much better!

I think you get less tearing if you have really high fps (correct me if I'm wrong there). Also, any AFR-based multi-GPU method causes a bit of input lag.

 

[johny2314jj]

AFR-based multi-GPU?

IMO when I limit to 59 its less smooth, and not that much quicker then when its limited at 60.

 

[boxleitnerb]

SLI and CF use alternate frame rendering (AFR). GPU1 renders frame 1,3,5... and GPU2 renders 2,4,6...

I tried the 59 thing in Skyrim and it made a very notable difference to me. What happens if you turn down the details so you get 120+fps? I know it makes no sense with a GTX590, but I'm curious how you perceive tearing then.

Edit:
Just tried it in UT3 and X3 Terran conflict, same thing. Much much more direct input.

Btw Dxtory is known to conflict with certain other tools like ENB and MSI Afterburner/EVGA precision. Have it or fraps display the fps so you know for certain that it locks at 59fps.

@toyota:
Do you have a source? Is tearing reduced in any case on a 120hz monitor or should you have close to or more than 120fps? If the latter, then this could possibly be achieved on a 60hz display as well. However, the CPU would often keep you from maintaining 120fps.

 

[toyota]

sell one of the gtx590s and use the money to buy a proper 120hz gaming monitor.

supposedly the tearing is greatly minimized on one of those so you can just leave vsync off.

 

[Wizlem]

Have you tried what 1 590 is like? Is the second one giving you anything or just causing more issues? Try running whatever you play with SLI turned off.

 

[ZeroRift]

I'm not too familiar with tweaking SLI setups, but you might try adjusting the "Maximum pre-rendered frames" setting. Worth a try, at least...

 

[Ben90]

I use Sli 590's

As a side effect of your 4 GPU beast of a computer, you induce quite a bit of delay when running near 60fps. Exactly 50ms more than a single card drawing at 60fps. (66.66ms vs 16.66) This is the bare minimum amount of input delay created from 4 GPUs. Once you start adding Vsync and realworld overheads, the total latency starts climbing very fast.

For the tearing side of the equation, Vsync is the ONLY thing that can remove it completely. You can greatly diminish tearing by having a higher refresh rate to frame rate ratio. Unfortunately for real world scenarios, it is still going to tear about once a frame no matter how fast of a monitor you get.

In the end, it all comes down to compromises. If you absolutely cannot live with tearing, and the input delay together, I would start with removing GPUs and lowering settings until you find a reasonable compromise.

Lucid Logix was working on a solution to this with their Hydra chips, but most people thought the chip sucked because it didn't scale quite as well as AFR. Until we get a SFR solution, I'm sticking with a single GPU for lowest possible input delay.

 

[johny2314jj]

Thank you all for your input, I will defiantly experiment further with sli vs non sli, I have tried the max pre render frames setting but didn't notice a difference.

I will not settle for any screen tearing, I would rather make small compromises.

Question: How do console games run with no screen tearing or input lag? I never experienced these problems until I began PC gaming.


Another Question: When Sli is disabled, does one of the 590's just stop? Just shut off like its not even there? Or is it still at work somehow? Maybe I can dedicate one of them to Physx?

 

[toyota]

Thank you all for your input, I will defiantly experiment further with sli vs non sli, I have tried the max pre render frames setting but didn't notice a difference.

I will not settle for any screen tearing, I would rather make small compromises.

Question: How do console games run with no screen tearing or input lag? I never experienced these problems until I began PC gaming.

console games can tear just like pc games. some of them do use vsync but many do not and the tearing is there if you look. console games usually run at a more consistent framerate and at just 30fps so that alone can make the tearing less visible.

and console games probably have input lag too but with a controller its not as noticeable. I can play a game on the pc with a controller and not notice the slight input lag that might be there with a mouse for some reason. I am guess since the mouse is much more precise that any type of lag would be more noticeable.

 

[johny2314jj]

Wow, I just tried using D3DOverider triple buffering, Disabling Sli, enabling vsync in game, and playing rage (which is already capped at 60fps)

What a difference, I can honestly say its identical to having vsync off.

I think disabling sli did it! Triple Buffering is just on to avoid frame dips, not sure if it helps with input lag.

 

[lavaheadache]

Wow, I just tried using D3DOverider triple buffering, Disabling Sli, enabling vsync in game, and playing rage (which is already capped at 60fps)

What a difference, I can honestly say its identical to having vsync off.

I think disabling sli did it! Triple Buffering is just on to avoid frame dips, not sure if it helps with input lag.

This is why I don't understand how so many people push sli'ed mid range cards over a single highend card. You pay a premium for the highend card but there are far less draw backs aside from money.

I know what I just stated doesn't apply to you since you have 590's but still is an sli solution and you are actually still using sli even when you take a card out

 

[Ben90]

Question: How do console games run with no screen tearing or input lag? I never experienced these problems until I began PC gaming.

There are certain things consoles do extremely well compared to our much more powerful PCs. Small memory operations are one of them. Changing the value of one bit on VRAM can take quite literally over ten thousand times longer on an i7 machine than a 360.

This is why rage struggles so hard on our GTX 580s and 6970s. Overall ID Tech 5 would be a solid engine if it wasn't for so much obfuscation in Windows. Carmack and Friends optimized best they could, but they really need direct access to memory for ID Tech 5 to show its strengths.

This is why I don't understand how so many people push sli'ed mid range cards over a single highend card. You pay a premium for the highend card but there are far less draw backs aside from money.

I just wish Lucid would have focused a lot more on getting SLI type compatibility going instead for the Frankenstein Nvidia+AMD type setups they promised. The 5850+5850 combo here outperformed both 5850 Crossfire and single card every single time when it came to rendering times except against a single card on Far Cry 2.

Crossfire provided laughable results on Far Cry 2 so I would dismiss it as an outlier anyways since no matter what, you are better on a single card. The Hydra solution still managed to render FC2 4.5ms faster than Crossfire for what its worth. (Idk why we would care about performance on that game anyways since they couldn't even get 1:1 mouse movement. It's the equivalent of benchmarking whose turd goes down the toilet first)

 

[lavaheadache]

I hear ya Ben.

I'm all for Lucid and multigpu in general. I think there is a lot to gain from adding cards to increase performance. The trouble with the tech is that programmers aren't investing time (from what I can tell) into the major caveats (IMO) to make it truly seemless. I care less about 100% scaling than I do about truly translucent card to card communication.

I know I make a stink about microstutter in just about every and all threads regarding sli/crossfire but I just don't understand how people are naive to it. The fact that people are trading percievably smooth frame rates for the jitters is beyond me.

 

[lavaheadache]

I hear ya Ben.

I'm all for Lucid and multigpu in general. I think there is a lot to gain from adding cards to increase performance. The trouble with the tech is that programmers aren't investing time (from what I can tell) into the major caveats (IMO) to make it truly seemless. I care less about 100% scaling than I do about truly translucent card to card communication.

I know I make a stink about microstutter in just about every and all threads regarding sli/crossfire but I just don't understand how people are naive to it. The fact that people are trading percievably smooth frame rates for the jitters is beyond me.

 

[johny2314jj]

Since I disabled sli I am
experiencing slight frame drops and stutrers.. Whats causing this, how do I avoid it?