Renewable Power

[piasabird]

There have been some action concerning the handling of laws and public policy for both traditional power companies which have basically a monopoly or monopolistic powers and also Personal company owned private non-traditional power creation from sources like wind and hydro or solar. I think the problem in the USA is we lack a national plan and agenda to point us in the right direction. Congress has the power to regulate the power industry but they lack the leadership to get anything done in this country. Here is an example of what could be possible if you look at how countries like Germany have handled this.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...r-generators-as-a-million-u-s-roofs-get-solar

If you look at this from an intelligent point of view what happens is that there could be an up to a 30% reduction the in the requirements for conventional power production or generation. It should be possible to burn less coal under such a plan. The real problem is we need to approach this, not as a problem, but as a chance for improvement.

The only thing that is really missing is a way to guide this process on a national level. Congress has the power to regulate this but everything is running wild because we have 50 states and a lot of corporate power getting in the way. What we really need is a coherent national plan.

 

[Subyman]

The article is an interesting read. The article makes a strong and tangible case for going with renewables. It is working in Germany from a holistic point for view and is doing exactly what regulators and policy makers are wanting, the decreased usage of fossil fuels and lower energy prices. A key issue we need to deal with is grid stability. We need to take action to upgrade our grid system in the US for this scenario.

 

[JSt0rm]

The article is an interesting read. The article makes a strong and tangible case for going with renewables. It is working in Germany from a holistic point for view and is doing exactly what regulators and policy makers are wanting, the decreased usage of fossil fuels and lower energy prices. A key issue we need to deal with is grid stability. We need to take action to upgrade our grid system in the US for this scenario.

Also low information voters that will vote for more fossil fuel use because freedumb.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I'm curious what these numbers really mean. Germany's "wholesale" power costs are at decade-lows, very quick Googling seems to hint that they're actually roughly on par with American costs, but the costs German consumers pay are still among the highest in the entire world. Is this an artifact due to Germany having to export unspent energy cheap when they have too much for their grid to handle? Renewable energy isn't cheap if it has to be heavily subsidized or incentivized in order for people to use it.

EDIT: Apparently Germany is the #1 exporter of energy in the world. That's not necessarily a good thing if the profit margins on that energy are poor.

 

[Franz316]

Here in Texas we keep adding wind power to the grid and at times provides almost 50% of the load! This state has enormous untapped solar potential too which I'd love to see developed. Unfortunately the state is run by oil and gas men, but wind is still growing.

The market doesn't deal with "free" things like wind and the sun that well so the future will be interesting.

 

[JSt0rm]

oil is subsidized in many many ways.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

oil is subsidized in many many ways.

Not to nearly the same extent afaik. If you deregulated (including environmental protections) and removed subsidizes from everything, the oil companies would go gung-ho and drill every last reserve they could.

 

[Genx87]

I think it would also help if people realized Nuclear has a major role in reducing emissions for power generation. On top of that they also need to realize renewable in terms of Solar and Wind are not efficient from a land use scenario. To replace a sizeable amount of the nations energy needs with solar. The entire state of Connecticut or something would need to be covered in panels. That isnt realistic. Until Fusion is possible renewable will be a minority player in power generation. If approached as a minority generation method with more nuclear I think we could get more done from an emissions point of view.

 

[Moonbeam]

If I could sell extra energy to the power company, I could generate a lot more than I need, but the bastards have fixed the law so that I can only subtract from what I owe. They get to sell any extra I generate.

 

[JSt0rm]

Not to nearly the same extent afaik. If you deregulated (including environmental protections) and removed subsidizes from everything, the oil companies would go gung-ho and drill every last reserve they could.

No they wouldnt. Because it costs more to pull out of the ground then what it is selling for.

 

[JSt0rm]

I think it would also help if people realized Nuclear has a major role in reducing emissions for power generation. On top of that they also need to realize renewable in terms of Solar and Wind are not efficient from a land use scenario. To replace a sizeable amount of the nations energy needs with solar. The entire state of Connecticut or something would need to be covered in panels. That isnt realistic. Until Fusion is possible renewable will be a minority player in power generation. If approached as a minority generation method with more nuclear I think we could get more done from an emissions point of view.

We have lots of land available to put solar panels. Think what would happen if every roof was a solar panel?

 

[Genx87]

We have lots of land available to put solar panels. Think what would happen if every roof was a solar panel?

How do you plan to force home owners to buy solar panels for their roofs? The idea is sound but the implementation sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Plus infrastructure will need to be built to handle a dispersed energy grid.

 

[Genx87]

If I could sell extra energy to the power company, I could generate a lot more than I need, but the bastards have fixed the law so that I can only subtract from what I owe. They get to sell any extra I generate.

Arent govt protected monopolies great? Anyways in MN a similar law is trying to get passed. The power companies have a legitimate complaint with the current arrangement. Which is they buy power from the home owner at set rates. But the home owner doesnt have to pay for any of the infrastructure they are selling their power into.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

No they wouldnt. Because it costs more to pull out of the ground then what it is selling for.

Citation needed. A quick Google is telling me that producing a barrel of oil costs $36, and the current price of a barrel on the market is $40, and that doesn't take into considerations that the $36 figure is with regulations and subsidies already in place, which complicates things.

 

[JSt0rm]

How do you plan to force home owners to buy solar panels for their roofs? The idea is sound but the implementation sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Plus infrastructure will need to be built to handle a dispersed energy grid.

Who said anything about forcing?

Citation needed. A quick Google is telling me that producing a barrel of oil costs $36, and the current price of a barrel on the market is $40, and that doesn't take into considerations that the $36 figure is with regulations and subsidies already in place, which complicates things.

Thats right now. You are saying they will go crazy if all that opened up and pull more oil thereby lowering the price even more.

Also Saudi Arabia produces a barrel of oil for $10. You will not compete with them.

 

[Moonbeam]

Arent govt protected monopolies great? Anyways in MN a similar law is trying to get passed. The power companies have a legitimate complaint with the current arrangement. Which is they buy power from the home owner at set rates. But the home owner doesnt have to pay for any of the infrastructure they are selling their power into.

I know. I would expect to share in that bill at an equal rate.

 

[Accord99]

We have lots of land available to put solar panels. Think what would happen if every roof was a solar panel?

Without cost-effective means to store large amounts of electricity, you'll still need the existing electric generation and transmission system when daily peak electric demand begins at 5PM. And you'll also have way too much electricity on summer noon with no way to use it all.

 

[JSt0rm]

Without cost-effective means to store large amounts of electricity, you'll still need the existing electric generation and transmission system when daily peak electric demand begins at 5PM. And you'll also have way too much electricity on summer noon with no way to use it all.

Everything is lining up

https://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall

 

[Accord99]

Here is an example of what could be possible if you look at how countries like Germany have handled this.

The German method is the best example of what not to do, what with wind and biomass effectively just replacing CO2 free nuclear and natural gas; solar accounting for less than 7% of total electricity generation despite hundreds of billions of euros invested into it and coal still producing about the same amount of electricity as it did more than 10 years ago.

 

[Accord99]

Everything is lining up

https://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall

$3000 for a measly 6.4 KWh is not lining up, and for those who live in higher latitudes, you'll need to save hundreds if not thousands of KWh of electricity from the summer to use in the winter.

 

[JSt0rm]

$3000 for a measly 6.4 KWh is not lining up, and for those who live in higher latitudes, you'll need to save hundreds if not thousands of KWh of electricity from the summer to use in the winter.

You asked I gave you a solution. Yes someone in Alaska won't be able to use solar. Does this mean solar isn't usable? No.

 

[Accord99]

You asked I gave you a solution. Yes someone in Alaska won't be able to use solar. Does this mean solar isn't usable? No.

$3000 for 6.4 KWh isn't a solution at all. And in reality, except for those willing to live a very frugal and low energy lifestyle, there's virtually no place in North America that solar works without the reliable backup and support of the existing electrical system.

 

[JSt0rm]

Not for you.

 

[Newbian]

If I could sell extra energy to the power company, I could generate a lot more than I need, but the bastards have fixed the law so that I can only subtract from what I owe. They get to sell any extra I generate.

Use any extra energy yourself by having a giant batman light powered up during the night.

 

[K1052]

$3000 for a measly 6.4 KWh is not lining up, and for those who live in higher latitudes, you'll need to save hundreds if not thousands of KWh of electricity from the summer to use in the winter.

Long term storage will obviously be utility scale, probably hydrogen. Given the trajectory of battery cost it is probable however that in-home storage could meet a sizable portion of daily needs in the coming years for people in southern latitudes (not a small number in the US). The Powerwall is not that product....it's a sleek expensive gadget for early adopters and in that vein I bet it will be successful.