Replacing a roof

[Craig234]

I usually avoid home contractors but talked with a company that seems not bad that sells various contracting.

What's a good way to determine if you need a new roof? I don't so much mean the condition to look for, as the process. If it's 25 years old, just go ahead? Call someone for an inspection? Who?

Is a 'cool roof' a good idea to get? Pricing on this bid seems a bit high, but maybe it's justified - hard to know.

They do have good reviews, but are a newer company ("Pace Avenue") with few reviews online I find.

 

[herm0016]

a "cold roof" meaning they will add sleepers and extra insulation to the roof? they do work somewhat, but only if you have specific circumstances, such as all vaulted ceilings or no attic ventilation.

how do you know? because the little stones on the shingles will be nearly worn away, you will see felt, you will have some tabs lifted or broken off. after 25 years, its a good bet you do need a new roof.

get at least 3 quotes just like everything else. Most the companies you find will be contractors that oversee the work and have 3 or 4 independent crews working for them.

We had ours replaced last year 2500 sqft house cost about 8 grand for the roof. GAF 25 year, ice and water shield, synthetic underlayment, replaced a few sheets of ply and all the drip edge. installed ridge vent and took out the old pot vents.

 

[kage69]

I wouldn't expect more than 25 years out of a shingle roof if I were you. Even if you have no leaks, if the time is right for you now do it. You don't want to worry about roof replacement when the weather is shitty and you have leaks everywhere.

Do you live up north, are there winter considerations here? If you live in the South a lighter colored roof is the way to go, but up north a darker color is good as you have to worry about snow and ice buildup. If that's the case make sure they don't skimp on the ice and water shielding. Last roof I had done I had it put over the whole roof, not just the 6ft from the roof edge.

I'd find someone who just had a good job done for them and get a recommendation. Reviews can be bogus, and I wouldn't bet a purchase like this on anonymous opinions. Lots of fraud and inept contractors out there.

 

[sdifox]

There are shingles now that claim century durability. I have my doubts.

 

[Craig234]

This is CA bay area, so moderate temperatures. 'Cool roof' seems to refer to being a light color to reflect the sun's heat.

Problem with quotes is apples to oranges - variations in materials, quality, etc. It'd be nice to have an expert say if it's needed - and what to get.

 

[herm0016]

all you have to do is compare a 25 year to a 25 year shingle, and make sure they are using the full suite of products from what ever company they use for a supplier.

ah... i have always lived in cold places. We got the 2nd lightest color that was offered. Not sure why it would cost extra. I'm sure its some CA BS regulations.

 

[renz20003]

I wouldn't expect more than 25 years out of a shingle roof if I were you. Even if you have no leaks, if the time is right for you now do it. You don't want to worry about roof replacement when the weather is shitty and you have leaks everywhere.

Do you live up north, are there winter considerations here? If you live in the South a lighter colored roof is the way to go, but up north a darker color is good as you have to worry about snow and ice buildup. If that's the case make sure they don't skimp on the ice and water shielding. Last roof I had done I had it put over the whole roof, not just the 6ft from the roof edge.

I'd find someone who just had a good job done for them and get a recommendation. Reviews can be bogus, and I wouldn't bet a purchase like this on anonymous opinions. Lots of fraud and inept contractors out there.

The ice guard is only meant to protect from water and ice getting under the roof edge if your gutters back up from ice or debris. Certainly doesn't hurt though, especially down the rake where some building codes don't require it by law.

To the op curled or swollen shingles are also cases to take immediate action.

There are shingles now that claim century durability. I have my doubts.

I have those it's called slate

 

[bruceb]

As mentioned, especially up north, make sure they put the metal edge by the gutters and also a good waterproof membrane (one that self seals around the nails) as it is much better than the old tar paper. And be sure to check and fix any flashing around the chimney or any protusions and skylights on the roof. Better to be a one layer roof, two at the absolute most. Something like this is a good item:
http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Residential/Products/Leak_Barriers/StormGuard

 

[Darwin333]

I usually avoid home contractors but talked with a company that seems not bad that sells various contracting.

What's a good way to determine if you need a new roof? I don't so much mean the condition to look for, as the process. If it's 25 years old, just go ahead? Call someone for an inspection? Who?

Is a 'cool roof' a good idea to get? Pricing on this bid seems a bit high, but maybe it's justified - hard to know.

They do have good reviews, but are a newer company ("Pace Avenue") with few reviews online I find.

I'm a professional roofing project manager and estimator with almost 20 years of experience, so I can help you out.

First and foremost, what type of roof do you have and what type are you looking to have installed. I'm assuming the answer to both questions is asphalt shingles but before going any further I'd like to be sure.

 

[Darwin333]

This is CA bay area, so moderate temperatures. 'Cool roof' seems to refer to being a light color to reflect the sun's heat.

Problem with quotes is apples to oranges - variations in materials, quality, etc. It'd be nice to have an expert say if it's needed - and what to get.

Cool roofs are defined by two characteristics. Solar reflectance which is how much of the solar rays (heat) that hits your roof gets reflected off and thermal emittance which is how quickly the roofing material sheds the heat that it does absorb. They combine those two numbers into something called a SRI or Solar Reflectance Index.

Basically in the summer they prevent more heat from entering your attic/home than a normal roof would and in the winter they prevent more heat loss through your roof. If they are worth it or not largely depends on the type of roof you are going to be installing and your HVAC usage.

 

[BoomerD]

a "cold roof" meaning they will add sleepers and extra insulation to the roof? they do work somewhat, but only if you have specific circumstances, such as all vaulted ceilings or no attic ventilation.

how do you know? because the little stones on the shingles will be nearly worn away, you will see felt, you will have some tabs lifted or broken off. after 25 years, its a good bet you do need a new roof.

get at least 3 quotes just like everything else. Most the companies you find will be contractors that oversee the work and have 3 or 4 independent crews working for them.

We had ours replaced last year 2500 sqft house cost about 8 grand for the roof. GAF 25 year, ice and water shield, synthetic underlayment, replaced a few sheets of ply and all the drip edge. installed ridge vent and took out the old pot vents.

That's dirt cheap. I'm in the PNW, and several of my neighbors have had their roofs replaced recently...1600-1800 sq. ft houses...all have been over $12,000.
One was almost $16,000 but they had to replace quite a bit of plywood. Still, the job only took 4-5 days start to finish.

Just replacing the asphalt shingles isn't horribly expensive...depending on roof type, but when they have to start ripping out old roof sheathing and installing new...the price jumps dramatically.

 

[herm0016]

ours was 12k total including taking down and reinstalling 4500 watts of solar. Our roof is very simple,about 4/12, one ridge no valley, one chimney to flash. The arrived about 6 am and were packed up and headed out by 4 pm.

 

[Darwin333]

That's dirt cheap. I'm in the PNW, and several of my neighbors have had their roofs replaced recently...1600-1800 sq. ft houses...all have been over $12,000.
One was almost $16,000 but they had to replace quite a bit of plywood. Still, the job only took 4-5 days start to finish.

Just replacing the asphalt shingles isn't horribly expensive...depending on roof type, but when they have to start ripping out old roof sheathing and installing new...the price jumps dramatically.

Dang, I need to open up shop up there because those are rape and pillage numbers. The $8K number you replied to isn't even "dirt cheap" at $3.20/sf. We usually charge $50-$75 per sheet of plywood that needs to be replaced but the only time we delve into residential roofing is after a hurricane or big hail storm and even then usually just for people we know and their friends/family.

Edit: And holy crap, 4 or 5 days to finish??? That's a one day job for us. Rip at least half the roof off by 10-11, get the shingles delivered on a roof loader and stack at the roof before noon and have the singles banged by end of the day. Might have to send a guy or two back the next day for very minor things like any cleanup that we mixed or painting vents.

 

[bruceb]

Even if they have to take the old shingles off, it is a fairly easy job and rather quick. The delays occur when they find rotten underlayment or bad flashing that needs fixing. That takes a little more time.

 

[eng2d2]

Dang, I need to open up shop up there because those are rape and pillage numbers. The $8K number you replied to isn't even "dirt cheap" at $3.20/sf. We usually charge $50-$75 per sheet of plywood that needs to be replaced but the only time we delve into residential roofing is after a hurricane or big hail storm and even then usually just for people we know and their friends/family.

Edit: And holy crap, 4 or 5 days to finish??? That's a one day job for us. Rip at least half the roof off by 10-11, get the shingles delivered on a roof loader and stack at the roof before noon and have the singles banged by end of the day. Might have to send a guy or two back the next day for very minor things like any cleanup that we mixed or painting vents.

where are you located? I need roof

 

[Craig234]

I'm a professional roofing project manager and estimator with almost 20 years of experience, so I can help you out.

First and foremost, what type of roof do you have and what type are you looking to have installed. I'm assuming the answer to both questions is asphalt shingles but before going any further I'd like to be sure.

Thanks for offering to help me find the 'fittest' roof Darwin. The guy came by again so it's clarified they use GAF Tinberwood materials. It is asphalt to asphalt. I think their estimate was like $15,000 for an estimated 2000 sq. ft roof for a house < 1000 sq ft. - expensive, they say 'worth it'.

They offered a $1,500 incentive so that'd lower it a bit but still.

Turns out the 'cool roof' they're talking about it based on material being reflective, rather than the color.

 

[Craig234]

Still at a point of:

- Do I need to replace it or can I wait - how to determine, who to hire for objective evaluation.
- If I do, I assume I should buy solar panels with it (this company does those also or I can get them elsewhere than the roofer). Buy with roof or wait?
- Selecting type/brand for roofing, contractor, if I do it.

 

[bruceb]

Installing the solar panels while the roof is being done, would insure against any possible leaks from the mounting hardware, wiring or piping that must go into the house. All depends on what you are going to do with the solar. Use it to heat the water or generate electricity. Either way, pipes or wires are going to need to be run from the roof down to the utility room or to an area near your main breaker panel. You should check your home to see how hard this will be to do. An alternate is to run conduit along the side of the house up to the roof. The other end could then enter the crawl space or basement or garage to get to the utility room or breaker panel.

 

[dtgoodwin]

I just replaced my roof. 1700 Square feet of main house, but 4700 square feet of roofing. 9/12-12/12 pitch, 9 valleys, 4 different ridge lines. Removal of all roofing and placing tar paper and membrane took a 2-man crew 4 days. Installation of shingles took a single individual 3 days working from 14 hour days. $14,500 for 25-year asphalt in Utah. I had 3 different roofers come look beforehand. I had lost a lot of shingles in a bad wind. None of them would do anything short of a replacement for the damaged face. It was easy to spot the wear - asphalt shingles lose their granules and then the tar coating the fiberglass breaks down. On my dark colored shingles, you could see them turning light where there was the most "wear". My insurance paid for the cost of the damaged face plus the ridge venting as it was a code issue. With all of gables my home has, there was little place to put vents, and it originally had only 4 vents on back with no additional place to put any that wasn't on a visible face. I don't love the look of the ridge vents, but I can tell that my attic is much cooler.

 

[Charmonium]

I'm going to hijack the thread with my own questions if the OP doesn't mind.

What about metal rooves? I have a double roof that's probably 30+ years old but is still holding up ok. It does look it's age but it's not actually falling apart just yet.

I think I'm going to start getting estimates and I'd like to get something that will provide good insulation especially for summer heat. Right now, I spend a lot more on cooling in the summer than I do on heating in the winter although I suppose that could change pretty quickly.

The house is about 100'x30' and has a shallow roof so the roof area isn't going to be a lot more than that. What sort of financial damage am I looking at?

 

[Darwin333]

Thanks for offering to help me find the 'fittest' roof Darwin. The guy came by again so it's clarified they use GAF Tinberwood materials. It is asphalt to asphalt. I think their estimate was like $15,000 for an estimated 2000 sq. ft roof for a house < 1000 sq ft. - expensive, they say 'worth it'.

They offered a $1,500 incentive so that'd lower it a bit but still.

Turns out the 'cool roof' they're talking about it based on material being reflective, rather than the color.

Yes, with shingles they use a special coating on the granules embedded in the asphalt to achieve a higher reflectivity. However, depending on the difference in cost versus a non-cool light shaded shingle (like gray) I usually have a very hard time justifying the costs. The SRI on a gray shingle is generally in the 19-21ish area and the SRI on a "cool roof" shingle is generally 26. To contrast that with metal roofs, dark colored metal can have a SRI of 22 while cool roof metals have an SRI in the high 80s and even low 90s.

IMHO, especially since your weather is moderate, I'd go with as light of a shade of normal shingle as you can live with. If you really want to increase your energy efficiency put the difference into insulation in your attic, especially if you can afford to put a decent quality reflective insulation to the bottom of your rafters. The reflective insulation will give you 90+% reflectivity versus the low 20% the up-charged shingles will.

Just like almost everything else, most roofers profit is a percentage of the overall project cost. So if they can sell you a more expensive material they make more money and get more backends from the manufacturer.

Bottom line: If you want a cool roof then install a standing seam metal roof. If you are installing an asphaltic shingle roof then it's very rarely worth the cost even with the incentive. This is coming from a professional that has spent his entire career working in New Orleans where HVAC, specifically air conditioning, costs are huge. I wouldn't recommend one to a friend here and have only ever installed them for owners who were trying to make a point of being green, cost be damned.

 

[Darwin333]

I'm going to hijack the thread with my own questions if the OP doesn't mind.

What about metal rooves? I have a double roof that's probably 30+ years old but is still holding up ok. It does look it's age but it's not actually falling apart just yet.

I think I'm going to start getting estimates and I'd like to get something that will provide good insulation especially for summer heat. Right now, I spend a lot more on cooling in the summer than I do on heating in the winter although I suppose that could change pretty quickly.

The house is about 100'x30' and has a shallow roof so the roof area isn't going to be a lot more than that. What sort of financial damage am I looking at?

While I can't give you an accurate price for your location, a standing seam metal roof has the ability to truly be a "cool roof" with SRI's reaching into the 90's versus mid 20's for "cool shingles". That means the metal reflects roughly 90% of the suns radiation back into space instead of being absorbed into your attic. The price will be considerably higher than a simple 25 year architectural shingle.

If I were you I'd get a quote on both a standing seam cool roof (the upcharge on the metal should be no more than 10% of regular metal) and also a quote on reflective insulation in your attic. They both serve the same purpose although a standing seam roof, properly maintained, should significantly outlast most architectural shingles.

 

[Darwin333]

I just replaced my roof. 1700 Square feet of main house, but 4700 square feet of roofing. 9/12-12/12 pitch, 9 valleys, 4 different ridge lines. Removal of all roofing and placing tar paper and membrane took a 2-man crew 4 days. Installation of shingles took a single individual 3 days working from 14 hour days. $14,500 for 25-year asphalt in Utah. I had 3 different roofers come look beforehand. I had lost a lot of shingles in a bad wind. None of them would do anything short of a replacement for the damaged face. It was easy to spot the wear - asphalt shingles lose their granules and then the tar coating the fiberglass breaks down. On my dark colored shingles, you could see them turning light where there was the most "wear". My insurance paid for the cost of the damaged face plus the ridge venting as it was a code issue. With all of gables my home has, there was little place to put vents, and it originally had only 4 vents on back with no additional place to put any that wasn't on a visible face. I don't love the look of the ridge vents, but I can tell that my attic is much cooler.

Ouch! Those poor bastards lol. Friggen 9 valleys at that! I sure hope they put a full 48" wide metal valley in it because that is where you get your leaks and on that steep of a roof I sure as hell wouldn't want to be trying to find a leak.

 

[Darwin333]

Still at a point of:

- Do I need to replace it or can I wait - how to determine, who to hire for objective evaluation.
- If I do, I assume I should buy solar panels with it (this company does those also or I can get them elsewhere than the roofer). Buy with roof or wait?
- Selecting type/brand for roofing, contractor, if I do it.

1. I would need to see very detailed pictures to even hazard a guess, and it would still be a guess without me putting eyeballs on it, as to whether you need a new roof or not. There are some pretty obvious signs that I might be able to see but going off of a non-professionals description has generally led me wrong. No offense. You are definitely in the age range of needing a new roof, so if you don't need one this year you should definitely be budgeting for one soon.
2. You can always have your roofers make your roof "solar ready". They install the solar mounts and make them watertight and at a later time of your choosing you can pick a solar installer to come install panels. This is a bit complicated due to local wind codes and such but it is possible. It would be better if you had both contractors working on the same page. I would NEVER trust a pure solar installed to penetrate my roof but this is simply from anecdotal evidence I have gained in south Louisiana. Your guys may be great at sealing roof penetrations, our guys think a dab of roofing cement or low-grade caulking will last a few decades. I have made quite a bit of money fixing their fuckups.
3. Brand of roofing is really up to the contractor you pick. They all have their preference because of backend kickbacks, it's just the way the system works. The big 3 are all relatively equal in quality and offer the exact same warranties. Keep in mind that the standard warranty that you get with any shingle roof is barely worth the paper it is written on. There are real warranties offered but in your climate I wouldn't personally expend the extra money for it as it requires more expensive underlayments and the warranty itself costs $1,000ish. As I said in a previous post, you will not recoup the money from a "cool shingle" versus a standard light colored shingle over the lifetime of the roof. If you still want to go with it then by all means, it's your money my friend but I am sure that it would be better spent in insulating your attic.


Edit: GAF Timberwood shingles are what I use most of the time, they are a good product. Certainteed and Ownes Corning have similar products all of which I am certified to install but I don't generally use unless forced by contract, I can say that they are pretty much equal in quality. Like I said it's all about the backend deals or what your supplier stocks.

I just personally wouldn't go with the cool roof option, especially if you can live with a lighter colored shingle.

 

[Craig234]

I thought the GAF Tinderwood are reflective tiles that are the 'cool roof'?

Thanks for the comments. I sort of like the company in one way - the CEO personally came to the appointment with the salesman and is a good guy - but I have no expertise in determining whether this $15,000 for 2000 feet of roofing is worth the higher than normal cost.

This CEO has big plans and wants to go national; he brought in the founder of match.com as a co-founder to this.

Paying fairly for quality is one thing; paying a premium for no good reason is another. I wonder which is the case.