Replacing Ignition Coils

[goobernoodles]

Thanks for your comments!

Just called my local repair shop. He wants to take a look at the car first before giving me an estimate as he's not sure if the intake manifold needs to be replaced.

Searching online, it appears that that the VQ35DE engine does need to have the intake manifold removed.

I had two ignition coils fail on my 02 Accord. Had a shop replace them both for ~$300 I believe. It was over a year ago.

With that said, the dealership recommends replacing all 6 at a time. I opted not to, and I haven't had a problem. Maybe that's due in part to not driving it because of a failed transmission?

 

[Capt Caveman]

You have coil over -wouldn't it kick a 300 code,301,302,303,etc.if were an individual cylinder mis fire.
P1320 points to the CAM sensor or computer

No second code comes up. From diagnostics, that would mean replacing all of them.

Anyways, looks like they figure it out. Both crankshaft sensors needed to be replaced or at least the back one. After replacing the front one, the light would still come on but the SM says if replacing the first one doesn't fix things, to replace both the front and back. After replacing both and starting it numerous times, no Service Engine Light.

Only thing is that over the phone he mentioned that one of the sensors was like $160 which is like 3x more than I could get it at Rockauto. I'll ask if they tested it with just the back sensor replaced. Still strange how no other codes came up to isolate the issue further.

If they don't charge me a lot for the labor, I'll let them have it.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Spoke to soon. Service light went off while he was doing his final test drive.

 

[Capt Caveman]

My shop took the car to another shop with better electrical folks, they believe it's the cheap ignition coils I bought and suggest replacing them all out.

Argh!!!!!!!!!!

If that doesn't work, I'm not sure what to do. I don't want to pay for a whole set of coils and getting them replaced to have SES light go off again and have to take it to the dealership who will want to replace the aftermarket coils for oem ones.

For now, I'm going to have them replace the 1st ignition coil and see what happens.

 

[Vette73]

I have used standard coils many times and never had issue with them. I doubt you got a bad one but update if/when it gets fixed.

 

[exdeath]

Take your car to a competent mechanic with an oscilloscope so he KNOWS what coil or sensor is bad and isn't just guessing and shotgunning it with random parts...

99% of the time you can get lucky with a cheap part that fixes the problem based on known symptoms without any complex fancy troubleshooting. But in cases like this where you still don't actually know what the problem is and you are just throwing parts at it in frustration, you need an electrical/computer person who knows how to use a scope to diagnose EFI problems.

 

[bruceb]

At this point, odds of it being another bad ignition coil is very remote. I would look into the possibility that whatever controls the coils is where the trouble is at. There must be an Ignition Module or possibly the signal to fire the coils comes from the engine computer. Also, some cars may use a resistor in the positive lead to the ignition circuits, which is bypassed when key is turned to Start. Sometimes, they develop an intermittent open condition, which will cause all sorts of odd problems. And have the shop check the battery cables for good connections, and for voltage drop. A bad cable or engine ground can send the best mechanic around in circles.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Yeah, swapping some of the ignition coils again made no difference. Taking it back to the dealership on Thursday.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Dealership just called me. They say that the aftermarket spark plugs and ignition coils are the wrong ones for this vehicle and why I'm still getting the P1320 code.

The spark plugs supposedly have two large of a gap and the ignition coil does not send a proper signal to the ECM.

They want $1300 to fix it.

Can this be true? Am I going to be able to return anything back to Rockauto? I haven't given them the okay to do anything yet.

This blows.

 

[Vette73]

Dealership just called me. They say that the aftermarket spark plugs and ignition coils are the wrong ones for this vehicle and why I'm still getting the P1320 code.

The spark plugs supposedly have two large of a gap and the ignition coil does not send a proper signal to the ECM.

They want $1300 to fix it.

Can this be true? Am I going to be able to return anything back to Rockauto? I haven't given them the okay to do anything yet.

This blows.

Sounds like BS to me.

You used Standard Motor Parts did you not? If so call them...
http://www.smpcorp.com/CONTACT US-Contact List/Content.aspx

And tell them the dealer wants to charge $1300 due to their coils. I bet SMP gets into it quick with the dealer and if the dealer is right SMP may cover some of the cost.

EDIT

Oh and ask the dealer if they replace the plugs/coils and it does nto fix it will it be free?

i.e. Make the dealer back up its claims.

 

[bruceb]

Spark plugs with too wide a gap or wrong heat range or wrong length can cause troubles. I would swap the plugs out for factory spec units and see what happens. If still bad, then you may have to chase the coils again. As to returning stuff, I kinda doubt it, as most stores are "no refunds / returns on electrical parts" .. exchange for another one.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Sounds like BS to me.

You used Standard Motor Parts did you not? If so call them...
http://www.smpcorp.com/CONTACT%20US-Contact List/Content.aspx

And tell them the dealer wants to charge $1300 due to their coils. I bet SMP gets into it quick with the dealer and if the dealer is right SMP may cover some of the cost.

EDIT

Oh and ask the dealer if they replace the plugs/coils and it does nto fix it will it be free?

i.e. Make the dealer back up its claims.

Called SMP Engine CS. They say I bought the correct coils. Of course, they mentioned that the coils meet or exceed OEM specs. They mentioned that the harness that the coils connect to could be bad? I told them that the spark plugs supposedly have an incorrect gap and he didn't believe that would cause the code issue. They mentioned that if the dealership's oem coils resolve the issue, I could then mail in the coils for a warranty claim with no guarantees that I'll get reimbursed for them.

Doing some research on the Denso Spark Plugs, RockAuto and Amazon show that this sparkplug works on my vehicle and list a gap of .040".

Going to the Denso website, they don't show this sparkplug and the sparkplugs they say will work with my vehicle have a gap of .044", is it possible that the gap difference could cause the code?

Should I suggest that they just swap out the sparkplugs first to see if that resolves the issue? If not then also use oem coils and if that doesn't fix the problem, they swap back the coils for no charge as you mentioned?

edit - just noticed that the other sparkplug options at RockAuto list a gap of .044"

 

[Vette73]

differance between .04 and .044 is next to nothing. I bet most would have a hard time getting it set 100%.
I really doubt the plugs would cause that code without making the engine run really bad. I have used Denso many times in nissan cars/trucks. My BiLs last car was a v-6 nissan and I put in the same plugs, denso plats, and it ran fine.

Make sure anything the dealer does is in writting. Them saying the SMP coils caused it etc...

 

[LTC8K6]

The gap opens up over time anyway as the electrodes wear down. If you set it at .040, it will be wider in a little while anyway. At 15K miles, it's probably worn open to .044 or worse anyway.

 

[Capt Caveman]

differance between .04 and .044 is next to nothing. I bet most would have a hard time getting it set 100%.
I really doubt the plugs would cause that code without making the engine run really bad. I have used Denso many times in nissan cars/trucks. My BiLs last car was a v-6 nissan and I put in the same plugs, denso plats, and it ran fine.

Make sure anything the dealer does is in writting. Them saying the SMP coils caused it etc...

Asshole dealership is going to charge me for the oem coils, even if the code comes back on and it's not a coil problem b/c they can't return them. It's the first step in their diagnosis to ensure that it's not the sparkplugs/coils. They say that they've inspected the ECM and wiring and they're fine.

If they do just the sparkplugs, they're still going to charge me $390 for labor and if it's not the sparkplugs, they'll charge me $390 again to install their coils.

Partgeeks carries Hitachi coils which are supposed to be oem for $72/each.

Should I buy the Hitachi coils(oem) and have my local shop install their own sparkplugs and my Hitachi coils? It'll be around $600 instead of $1400.

Cost already:
1st Dealership Diagnosis - $130
Parts and Local Shop to replace coils - $500
2nd Dealership Diagnosis - $130

Now, either $1300 or $600?

 

[Zivic]

Asshole dealership is going to charge me for the oem coils, even if the code comes back on and it's not a coil problem b/c they can't return them. It's the first step in their diagnosis to ensure that it's not the sparkplugs/coils. They say that they've inspected the ECM and wiring and they're fine.

If they do just the sparkplugs, they're still going to charge me $390 for labor and if it's not the sparkplugs, they'll charge me $390 again to install their coils.

Partgeeks carries Hitachi coils which are supposed to be oem for $72/each.

Should I buy the Hitachi coils(oem) and have my local shop install their own sparkplugs and my Hitachi coils? It'll be around $600 instead of $1400.

Cost already:
1st Dealership Diagnosis - $130
Parts and Local Shop to replace coils - $500
2nd Dealership Diagnosis - $130

Now, either $1300 or $600?

should have had them do the plugs when the did the coils from the start... but water under the bridge. keep the coils you have, and the shop replace the plugs

 

[Vette73]

Asshole dealership is going to charge me for the oem coils, even if the code comes back on and it's not a coil problem b/c they can't return them. It's the first step in their diagnosis to ensure that it's not the sparkplugs/coils. They say that they've inspected the ECM and wiring and they're fine.

If they do just the sparkplugs, they're still going to charge me $390 for labor and if it's not the sparkplugs, they'll charge me $390 again to install their coils.

Partgeeks carries Hitachi coils which are supposed to be oem for $72/each.

Should I buy the Hitachi coils(oem) and have my local shop install their own sparkplugs and my Hitachi coils? It'll be around $600 instead of $1400.

Cost already:
1st Dealership Diagnosis - $130
Parts and Local Shop to replace coils - $500
2nd Dealership Diagnosis - $130

Now, either $1300 or $600?

Without seeing it myself I can't say what to do. You have followed the basic stuff in cases like this and I can't offer anything above that without being under the hood myself.

I am just pointing out the dealership is guessing what is wrong and using your checkbook to do so. From what you said it seems they are at least admitting it now.

 

[Capt Caveman]

should have had them do the plugs when the did the coils from the start... but water under the bridge. keep the coils you have, and the shop replace the plugs

I did have the plugs changed the first time when I had the coils replaced. Only problem with just changing the plugs, it's going to be an additional $170 in labor if I have to change the coils.

I could do the plugs and if that doesn't work, do the coils myself.

 

[bruceb]

At this point, consider trading it in on a newer model. It may end up being the better deal. And since your Infiniti dealer is such an idiot and their techs do not know how to find a problem for certain, I would Never buy another car of that make and certainly not from that Dealer. Perhaps you need to have the dealer call in an Infiniti Factory Tech Rep to help fix it. I would also suggest do a compression test and check the EGR system. Both of those can cause all sorts of oddball issues. And I do not agree with the Dealer attempting to charge you for a part he thinks is bad, but upon changing it, may not correct the problem. See what the State Attorney thinks about that practice. Sounds like fraud to me. Now if it does fix it, then you pay for it. Note you can change the spark plugs yourself for much less than what the dealer wants for it.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Without seeing it myself I can't say what to do. You have followed the basic stuff in cases like this and I can't offer anything above that without being under the hood myself.

I am just pointing out the dealership is guessing what is wrong and using your checkbook to do so. From what you said it seems they are at least admitting it now.

Either way, I don't plan on using them. Charging 3 hours of labor for something that takes them only 1 hr, pisses me off.

Speaking to my local shop, they believe they did gap my sparkplugs. They're willing to replace the sparkplugs with oem ones. And if that doesn't work, put in oem coils(two which they swapped in already). Of course, that's double the labor but they're willing to show me how to change the coils myself.

Or have the local shop do both at once?

 

[Sukhoi]

Why don't you personally do the plugs on the easy half of the engine and see if that fixes it? If not, do the coils on the easy half. Then if that still doesn't work, pay to get the plugs + coils done on the hard half.

Speaking to my local shop, they believe they did gap my sparkplugs.

I thought you aren't supposed to gap iridium spark plugs? It's possible the problem was the coils, which was fixed, but then recreated by the shop messing up your spark plugs when gapping.

 

[Capt Caveman]

At this point, consider trading it in on a newer model. It may end up being the better deal. And since your Infiniti dealer is such an idiot and their techs do not know how to find a problem for certain, I would Never buy another car of that make and certainly not from that Dealer. Perhaps you need to have the dealer call in an Infiniti Factory Tech Rep to help fix it. I would also suggest do a compression test and check the EGR system. Both of those can cause all sorts of oddball issues. And I do not agree with the Dealer attempting to charge you for a part he thinks is bad, but upon changing it, may not correct the problem. See what the State Attorney thinks about that practice. Sounds like fraud to me. Now if it does fix it, then you pay for it. Note you can change the spark plugs yourself for much less than what the dealer wants for it.

KBB Trade In = $6625 Fair condition
Edmunds = $3785 Poor, $4252 Average

Also would need to make the decision - Subaru Outback or Volvo XC60

 

[Capt Caveman]

Why don't you personally do the plugs on the easy half of the engine and see if that fixes it? If not, do the coils on the easy half. Then if that still doesn't work, pay to get the plugs + coils done on the hard half.



I thought you aren't supposed to gap iridium spark plugs? It's possible the problem was the coils, which was fixed, but then recreated by the shop messing up your spark plugs when gapping.

They're platinum. The gaping issues comes from the plugs I got from RockAuto.

 

[LTC8K6]

The correct gap in the owner's manual seems to be listed as .043"

Spark plug
Standard PLFR5A-11
Service PLFR4A-11
Option PLFR6A-11
Spark plug gap in (mm) 0.043 (1.1)

 

[bruceb]

I only suggested the trade in as the vehicle is about 11 years old. How much longer before something really costly decides to go ? ?