Report: Mazda RX-7 Returns for 2017 with 450-hp Turbo Rotary

[manimal]

I'm guessing the next time (if) we see a rotary from Mazda again it will probably be in a hybrid

I remember reading a while back about them working on an experimental next gen rotary, for a non-direct drive hybrid car (what the Volt was originally marketed to be)

Claiming that a lot of the problems of the rotary engine (poor fuel consumption, oil consumption) aren't problems if it's tuned around a constant RPM/load scenario, and there the light weight and small package would really shine for recharging some batteries

Don't forget how much the recall hurt the RX-8 brand... handing out new engines like candy. I definitely think FI is the way to go for Mazda but they would have to do some legwork to win over people who got screwed by the RX-8

really good points!


your comment about the hybrid wankel intrigues me thought it doesnt fix the inherent issues with the seals like Phuc mentioned.

I really dont see it worth the engineering expenditure if there isnt gonna be either a race application or extensive market penetration in multiple cars.

Yotta is spot on about the engine issues suffered and the resulting blowback no two stroke pun intended. Mazda as a performance brand was ruined for a decade or more.

 

[Railgun]

Rotaries are dumb and the people defending them here are fanboys. Sorry.

No need to be sorry. You obviously have zero experience and knowledge on the subject.

 

[smackababy]

What you fail to understand is how they drive. Don't believe us? Watch the Top Gear video linked previously. Don't believe Jeremy Clarkson, watch any of the other dozens of RX-8 reviews on YouTube. Still don't believe any of those? Oh well.

The thing is, driving experience and practicality and durability don't always go hand in hand. Mazda was able to dominate with rotary engines in LeMans (and was banned for it... lol), but they couldn't translate that to a cheap, reliable sports car, especially when they had the Miata.

 

[Wingznut]

The thing is, driving experience and practicality and durability don't always go hand in hand.

Well, if a Rotary engine is for you, depends on your priorities. I certainly wouldn't recommend one to someone who's priority is top gas mileage. Nor would I recommend one to someone who is inexperienced (or doesn't have the urge) with maintaining a car.

But those of us who find the driving experience more than worth the cost of ownership, doesn't make us "dumb" or "fanboys", or whatever other insult phucheneh wants to sling.

And that was what I was referring to.

 

[exdeath]

Engineering challenge:

Possible to make a diesel rotary without external compression or staged compression?

 

[Insomniator]

Never driven or even been in a rotary but if your main complaints are MPG and burning oil then... you don't need to worry about this type of car anyway.

I'll take crappy mpg and putting in some oil every few k miles if its an otherwise amazing/unique car. If you need good MPG then buy a prius. So sick of efficiency talk.

 

[smackababy]

Never driven or even been in a rotary but if your main complaints are MPG and burning oil then... you don't need to worry about this type of car anyway.

I'll take crappy mpg and putting in some oil every few k miles if its an otherwise amazing/unique car. If you need good MPG then buy a prius. So sick of efficiency talk.

How about an engine that doesn't need replaced every 70,000 miles due to compression problems? They aren't reliable enough to be a production car. A track car or a race car that gets rebuilt? They can be fantastic. There are 4 rotor RX-7s that are just ridiculous.

How about a car that costs $32k and has less power and torque, with around the same weight, as similar cars? RX-8 was pretty flat in terms of power for price. Maybe a twin turbo could have helped that, but it wasn't ever available.

 

[Ferzerp]

Well, if a Rotary engine is for you, depends on your priorities. I certainly wouldn't recommend one to someone who's priority is top gas mileage. Nor would I recommend one to someone who is inexperienced (or doesn't have the urge) with maintaining a car.

But those of us who find the driving experience more than worth the cost of ownership, doesn't make us "dumb" or "fanboys", or whatever other insult phucheneh wants to sling.

And that was what I was referring to.

I could replace rotary engine with steam engine and it would be the same kind of argument (one with little to no substance beyond just your feelings). That doesn't make it smart or desirable for any company to start mass producing cars with them again.

 

[exar333]

I'm guessing the next time (if) we see a rotary from Mazda again it will probably be in a hybrid

I remember reading a while back about them working on an experimental next gen rotary, for a non-direct drive hybrid car (what the Volt was originally marketed to be)

Claiming that a lot of the problems of the rotary engine (poor fuel consumption, oil consumption) aren't problems if it's tuned around a constant RPM/load scenario, and there the light weight and small package would really shine for recharging some batteries

Don't forget how much the recall hurt the RX-8 brand... handing out new engines like candy. I definitely think FI is the way to go for Mazda but they would have to do some legwork to win over people who got screwed by the RX-8

I definitely hope not. That will just mean it will be heavy, like most other cars are these days. It would be an auto-fail IMHO.

 

[Wingznut]

I could replace rotary engine with steam engine and it would be the same kind of argument (one with little to no substance beyond just your feelings). That doesn't make it smart or desirable for any company to start mass producing cars with them again.

A steam engine is the same argument? Umm, if you say so.

Anyway, despite the fact that YOU don't understand their appeal, doesn't mean nobody else does.

 

[smackababy]

I definitely hope not. That will just mean it will be heavy, like most other cars are these days. It would be an auto-fail IMHO.

Tell that to the McLaren P1. It uses electric motors to fill in torque gaps and be particularly amazing in every way.

 

[Phanuel]

I could replace rotary engine with steam engine and it would be the same kind of argument (one with little to no substance beyond just your feelings). That doesn't make it smart or desirable for any company to start mass producing cars with them again.

After watching Leno's fascinating videos about his steam powered cars, what if though? They'd make fantastic generation units for electric hybrids with all of that raw torque.

 

[exar333]

Tell that to the McLaren P1. It uses electric motors to fill in torque gaps and be particularly amazing in every way.

Yes, because a full carbon-fiber body of a $1M car is remotely the same as a sub $50k car.

 

[smackababy]

Yes, because a full carbon-fiber body of a $1M car is remotely the same as a sub $50k car.

The technology is there. And with everyone clamoring about the small size and power output of a rotary engine, additional weight for electric motors to add additional power might not be terrible.

 

[Wingznut]

The technology is there. And with everyone clamoring about the small size and power output of a rotary engine, additional weight for electric motors to add additional power might not be terrible.

It's just still very expensive.

 

[exar333]

It's just still very expensive.

Cheap/affordable
Powerful
Lightweight

Pick two. This is the current situation.

 

[phucheneh]

What you fail to understand is how they drive. Don't believe us? Watch the Top Gear video linked previously. Don't believe Jeremy Clarkson, watch any of the other dozens of RX-8 reviews on YouTube. Still don't believe any of those? Oh well.

Good job clarifying the definition of fanboy.

Person 1: 'This product sucks.'

Person 2: 'Well, what you're not understanding, is that I really like it, even though it sucks.'

Person 2 = fanboy.

If you want the best thing to drive, without regard for efficiency, durability, ect, then why don't you just go buy a Ferrari? They're fun and Jeremy Clarkson likes them...as far as I can tell, that's the only criteria you require.

 

[Wingznut]

Good job clarifying the definition of fanboy.

Person 1: 'This product sucks.'

Person 2: 'Well, what you're not understanding, is that I really like it, even though it sucks.'

Person 2 = fanboy.

If you want the best thing to drive, without regard for efficiency, durability, ect, then why don't you just go buy a Ferrari? They're fun and Jeremy Clarkson likes them...as far as I can tell, that's the only criteria you require.

Good job completely misrepresenting what I said to fit your narrative. And good job completely/intentionally missing the point, to find yet another reason to be an asshole on this forum.

The rotary cars are fun... A complete blast to drive. That's the point, and that's what matters. Of course they have drawbacks, I'm not claiming they are perfect.

Look... We get it... You hate rotary engines and anyone who has a different view is to be called a dumb fanboy. Time to move on.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

I test drove the RX-8. It was a perfect sports car, ruined by the inefficient, gutless, oil burning engine. Mazda needs to stop ruining great cars with these technological dead end engines. They got a pass when gas was $1.50, but those days are long gone. Use the R&D money for something useful.

Well, they had some different power configurations. If you drove the top trim level with the 6spd manual, it is such a fun car. Sure it isn't the fastest, but it is quick enough and the chassis makes up for it imo.

 

[fstime]

Only impressive thing about the Mazda RX-7's rotary engine was the fact that is was so small it fit in the trunk of a Toyota Supra.

 

[exar333]

Good job completely misrepresenting what I said to fit your narrative. And good job completely/intentionally missing the point, to find yet another reason to be an asshole on this forum.

The rotary cars are fun... A complete blast to drive. That's the point, and that's what matters. Of course they have drawbacks, I'm not claiming they are perfect.

Look... We get it... You hate rotary engines and anyone who has a different view is to be called a dumb fanboy. Time to move on.

Well said.

Personally, I am about as far away as possible from being a rotary fanboy as possible. Sure, it may not last really long, but it sure as hell is fun.

I decided against a rotary a few times purchasing a car in the past. Reliability and quirks of the engine definitely played into that decision, but I needed a fun AND reliable car. If you have a reliable car for commuting and want an amazing car for just enjoying the thrill of driving, it is hard to go wrong with a rotary.

A FD RX-7 has been one of my favorite cars of all-time. It is beautiful, amazing to drive, and just plain awesome.

 

[Midwayman]

As a 2nd toy car I could see buying a rotary. Not enough miles put on it to worry about the downsides. They are really neat engines. That's what made the rx8 weird though. They tried to make it into an everyday practical car instead of just a toy. Wrong positioning.

 

[Topweasel]

With everybody talking about Dead End and how terrible the Rotary Engine is, maybe it's the exact opposite. Part of it's weakness is that it isn't used as much so little has been done to develop tech that might make up for the shortfalls we are experiencing. It's one thing when people are developing nearly a new engine, I4, V6, flat 6, V8 and so on every year, you build on not only your history but the history of everyone else doing the same. But can you really do that if it's only once every 10 years or so in between new engines and only from one smallish company.

I see a lot of potential for a wankle if some companies just gave it a try and stuck with it.

 

[Ferzerp]

With everybody talking about Dead End and how terrible the Rotary Engine is, maybe it's the exact opposite. Part of it's weakness is that it isn't used as much so little has been done to develop tech that might make up for the shortfalls we are experiencing. It's one thing when people are developing nearly a new engine, I4, V6, flat 6, V8 and so on every year, you build on not only your history but the history of everyone else doing the same. But can you really do that if it's only once every 10 years or so in between new engines and only from one smallish company.

I see a lot of potential for a wankle if some companies just gave it a try and stuck with it.

The uneven heating, combustion flame issues, sealing issues, oil needs, etc, are not issues with a lack of development, they are drawbacks inherent with the design. They aren't just things you can hand wave away and say well, maybe we will figure out how to fix that!.

 

[smackababy]

The uneven heating, combustion flame issues, sealing issues, oil needs, etc, are not issues with a lack of development, they are drawbacks inherent with the design. They aren't just things you can hand wave away and say well, maybe we will figure out how to fix that!.

Some of those (sealing and efficiency) could possibly be helped with more material technology. One of the major drawbacks is that in the days of "efficiency is everything", the Wankel engine's problems sealing properly ruin it. The same power output can be gotten from a V8 with greater efficiency, and the extra weight isn't a huge problem, as the engines aren't exactly shaving off hundreds of pounds.


I think more research needs to be put into finding out how make a better ICE (piston or rotary or something entirely new), because it is terribly inefficient.