Report: PS3 to sell for $399, cost $494 to make

[Don Vito Corleone]

Of course, the major problem I see with Sony's use of blu-ray is that the format may yet end up like Betamax (i.e., technologically superior, but defeated by another standard, in this case Toshiba's HD-DVD). At that point you'd be paying a lot more for a nearly-worthless feature that might even hurt system performance (by slowing read times).

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: Chadder007

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

Originally posted by: purbeast0
I hadnt' planned on getting a PS3 at launch because of...

1. The games
2. The price

So this didn't really change my plans, because I figured it would be $400 or so which turned me off right away. I'm going to be picking up an XBox 360 at release however. I'm actually going to pre-order one this weekend since I get paid this week.

Aren't you waiting till Microsoft has HD-DVD in its second release of Xbox 360s?
DVD is just not gonna to be capable in much future-proofing

Nope. I'm buying xbox360 to play games, not to watch movies. When the time comes, I will pick up a HD-DVD player I guess. I don't really plan on getting all my older movies in HD-DVD format again just to have 2 copies of the same movie. I think it will take me a while to get into the whole HD-DVD thing.

But who knows, I might get a HD-DVD player as soon as they come out . But that won't make me wait to get an xbox 360. I love games and thats why I'm buying the 360, to game, not watch movies.

I don't know about that. DVD's are pretty much saturated memory space for games
Plus since Xbox supports HDTV, the size of movies, textures are going to be using much space on the game media

May be they would have HD-DVD games soon. In that case, it would be very unfair to early adoptors

I don't know whether DVD-DL would have much

naw, space isn't an issue. most xbox games barely use all the single layer. and heck, pc games are made for hd resolutions now and the games fit on less then a dvd most of the time..let alone a dual layer dvd. its still a console anyways, textures i don't think they will go too nuts on

:werd:
Bluray is no where needed for games any time soon, unless they include LOTS of video sequences....but they they can do that with the 3d engine now instead of video (Final Fantasy type video)

For 1080i resolution (or 1080p, whatever) ... it might be needed. There is alot of CGI in the games from what I have heard.

I will be buying all 3 consoles most likely, just after the first price breaks. I might pre-order an XBOX360 to sell on eBay :thumbsup:

I agree that KB/Mouse > controller for FPS games, and that is all I really play. But what about RTS? Try to play a C&C, WC, SC-esque game on a console.

I was really hoping for greater media center functionality out of the XBOX360. Since is it MS developed, I wanted the same media center controls that the Media Center version of Windows has. Meaning record your shows, download free guides, etc. Since it isn't doing that, ... it's a bummer. If/when I get an XBOX360 or PS3, I will have a USB KB/Mouse hooked up 100% of the time for chatting, and FPS games. It's a win-win situation then.

Although you mention a 50" HDTV (I have a 60" Sony HDTV) ... I will be playig the games on a computer LCD. The TV I will have in my apartment will only be a 2x" Sony Wega, and the resolution sucks. Computer LCDs make the games shine.

 

[Scurvy]

I hope Microsoft and Sony continue digging multibillion dollar holes in their war over video game console market share. With any luck, they'll finally realize its not worth their while, and we can get back to Nintendo vs. Sega, the way it ought to be.

I will buy the new Nintendo next year. I might buy an Xbox360 later on if it proves to be the best console for driving games, which it probably will. That's what I did this generation ... I have a Gamecube with about 20 games (mostly 1st party Nintendo) and an Xbox with 5 games (Halo, plus 4 driving games).

Most of the games on the Playstation seem geared toward giving 14 year old boys a stiffie. That's ok, but I guess I'm oldschool - I keep my video games and smut in different closets.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

Originally posted by: cliftonite
Well if they start releasing HD content (movies and tv shows) on blue-ray discs and the first gen players are more than the PS3, then I would think about buying the PS3.

Something that leaned me towards PS3 is their 1080p HDTV support, while Xbox360 only supports 720p

Actually the *minimum spec* is 720p. The system natively supports 1080p resolution, however.

In either case, though, 1080p TV's are *just* hitting the market, and they are VERY expensive. HDTV itself, last time I read, accounts for only about 11 percent of the market, and 1080p is just a tiny fraction of that.

At least for the next 3-5 years, 1080p is largely *irrelevant*.

Jason

 

[Fenixgoon]

anyone notice that consoles are creeping towards computer prices? yet another reason why PC's pwn

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
anyone notice that consoles are creeping towards computer prices? yet another reason why PC's pwn

Anyone notice that the next gen consoles are more expensive, but have graphics that rival or even top computer graphics for a fraction of the cost?

 

[Saint Nick]

i am done buying new systems. the last system i bought was an xbox and i don't even play it. i have a ps2 and i don't play that either. but whats weird is i can't pull my self to sell them.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

I see. But in multiple discs case the game would have to be "installed" instead. No one want to swap discs during game play

Why on Earth would they need to be installed? Are you too young to remember all the multi-disc titles for PSX such as FF7, Beyond the Beyond, etc? It took all of 30 seconds to swap discs, and this was probably once every 20-30 hours of actual game-play.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX
I think sony suppose you to put your own large capacity HDD in, because they think bundling a 20GB HDD is not going to have much help. They are selling 2 versions I think, with HDD they bundle Linux as well

The point, though, is that the blue ray drive has *nowhere near* the performance of a hard drive (1x Blu-Ray is 54Mb/sec, or about 6.75MB/sec, slightly slower than a 48X CDROM and less than half the speed of 12X DVD), and without *any* hard drive as a native part of the system, developers simply WILL NOT support it. Observe PS2's abysmally failed hard drive addon for a reference point, and observe Sega's MANY failed addons for more evidence that addons, aside from memory cards or extra controllers, are simply *never* well supported.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

Originally posted by: lancestorm

Originally posted by: cliftonite
Well if they start releasing HD content (movies and tv shows) on blue-ray discs and the first gen players are more than the PS3, then I would think about buying the PS3.

They will be. Expect average price for a decent stand-alone player to be around $1000 or more.

Remember, with a gaming system it is gonna be kinda sh!tty how well these guys will perform. Xbox and definitely PS2 have never received any rave reviews about their quality of dvd playback.

When PS2 was out it was praised of its high quality DVD playback which matched $400 high quality DVD players. However the region code restriction was killing it

Not to mention its HUGE list of *incompatible* movies

Jason

 

[James3shin]

its going to come down to the games, like it always has.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
anyone notice that consoles are creeping towards computer prices? yet another reason why PC's pwn

So $300 for an xbox360, that comes w/a 20Gb hard drive, a wireless network adapter, a gaming controller, a microphone/speaker to communicate online with, and HD outputs is close to a top of the line PC in price?

 

[skace]

It's not a surprise that on a computer tech forum, there's a bunch of Xbox lovers. I don't want to play console games online because I'm privy to the fact that kb/mouse is infinitely more robust than using a thumbstick, no matter what type of game you're playing (save sports and console RPGs). I don't think online gaming is as big as the industry makes it out to be. Halo is the only online console game that I even know of where a significant number of people play online, and it still can't match PC online gaming.

I own PS2 and Xbox and my PS2 has received hundreds of hours more use. I will be getting both PS3 and Xbox360. Maybe my usage will change? Who knows. I don't think the hard drive is that big of an issue.

Amen! There are only specific games which work well online. FPS, RTS, and MMORPGS and all of these the PC has in SPADES. And by spades, I mean a metric fvckton.

What doesn't the PC have? Great offline titles. What does the PS2 have? Amazing offline titles. Why do I buy a console? To play with people who are next to me IRL or to play offline games. Why do I buy a PC? To play games competitively online. I will tell you, if the entire Xbox360 lineup is hinged directly to online play it will fail to get my money once again. You cannot package POORLY MADE pc games (see Halo1/2) and resell me game content that I had on my PC in fvcking 1995.

The only reason I will purchase Xbox360 is if it brings unique titles that I cannot get on my PC that make me want to play them. Only way. It won't be specs, it won't be a goddamn media center or because I need an Xbox live account.

Most of the games on the Playstation seem geared toward giving 14 year old boys a stiffie. That's ok, but I guess I'm oldschool - I keep my video games and smut in different closets.

Stupid response. What are you referring to in this instance? The ungodly number of top notch rpg games?

At this point, I OWN over 60 games for my PS2. I own roughly 20 for my GC (although some very extremely good titles).

There is a good possibility I will buy all 3 game consoles for next gen, but this possibility is dependant on whether the Xbox360 is going to bring anything to the table that I can't get on my PC/PS3. If it doesn't, I will spare that purchase and just get the Revolution/PS3.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

Originally posted by: purbeast0
I hadnt' planned on getting a PS3 at launch because of...

1. The games
2. The price

So this didn't really change my plans, because I figured it would be $400 or so which turned me off right away. I'm going to be picking up an XBox 360 at release however. I'm actually going to pre-order one this weekend since I get paid this week.

Aren't you waiting till Microsoft has HD-DVD in its second release of Xbox 360s?
DVD is just not gonna to be capable in much future-proofing

Nope. I'm buying xbox360 to play games, not to watch movies. When the time comes, I will pick up a HD-DVD player I guess. I don't really plan on getting all my older movies in HD-DVD format again just to have 2 copies of the same movie. I think it will take me a while to get into the whole HD-DVD thing.

But who knows, I might get a HD-DVD player as soon as they come out . But that won't make me wait to get an xbox 360. I love games and thats why I'm buying the 360, to game, not watch movies.

I don't know about that. DVD's are pretty much saturated memory space for games
Plus since Xbox supports HDTV, the size of movies, textures are going to be using much space on the game media

May be they would have HD-DVD games soon. In that case, it would be very unfair to early adoptors

I don't know whether DVD-DL would have much

There are already a few HD games on xbox ... Soul Calibur 2, Dragons Lair 3D.

Just because stuff is HD doesn't mean its going to take up more space. I mean look at PC games. Their resolution is as good as HD stuff pretty much and they are still on CD's (multiple CD's though). 9GB is enough for a game, and if its not, we'll start to see games on maybe 2 DVDs, which will be 18GB, which will be more than enough.

Agreed. Most people don't realize that, as an example, 3D models are just a text file full of coordinates and texture info (references to external texture files), so they aren't really very big. Pre-rendered movies that are rendered in 720p or 1080p will likely be larger in size, but still, not overwhelmingly so.

World of Warcraft, which is a HUGE game, *installs* at just over 4 gigs.
GTA: San Andreas, another HUGE game, installs at almost 5 gigs.
Unreal Tournament 2004, which is an ENORMOUS game, installs at 5.5 gigs.

Bear in mind, too, that these are games that are designed with more complexity than a console game (since they have to be able to run on many kinds of hardware and software configurations) so they are *necessarily larger* than their console counterparts. Additionally they are usually designed to support much higher resolutions than even 720p (though few PC's will run one at 1080p, 1920x1080, to be sure)

In any case, the above example is correct: If a game requires more than a DVD9 (unlikely for the foreseeable future), it will come on 2 DVD's, which will still be somewhere on the order of one TENTH the price of a blu-ray disk.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

Originally posted by: purbeast0
I hadnt' planned on getting a PS3 at launch because of...

1. The games
2. The price

So this didn't really change my plans, because I figured it would be $400 or so which turned me off right away. I'm going to be picking up an XBox 360 at release however. I'm actually going to pre-order one this weekend since I get paid this week.

Aren't you waiting till Microsoft has HD-DVD in its second release of Xbox 360s?
DVD is just not gonna to be capable in much future-proofing

Nope. I'm buying xbox360 to play games, not to watch movies. When the time comes, I will pick up a HD-DVD player I guess. I don't really plan on getting all my older movies in HD-DVD format again just to have 2 copies of the same movie. I think it will take me a while to get into the whole HD-DVD thing.

But who knows, I might get a HD-DVD player as soon as they come out . But that won't make me wait to get an xbox 360. I love games and thats why I'm buying the 360, to game, not watch movies.

I don't know about that. DVD's are pretty much saturated memory space for games
Plus since Xbox supports HDTV, the size of movies, textures are going to be using much space on the game media

May be they would have HD-DVD games soon. In that case, it would be very unfair to early adoptors

I don't know whether DVD-DL would have much

There are already a few HD games on xbox ... Soul Calibur 2, Dragons Lair 3D.

Just because stuff is HD doesn't mean its going to take up more space. I mean look at PC games. Their resolution is as good as HD stuff pretty much and they are still on CD's (multiple CD's though). 9GB is enough for a game, and if its not, we'll start to see games on maybe 2 DVDs, which will be 18GB, which will be more than enough.

I see. But in multiple discs case the game would have to be "installed" instead. No one want to swap discs during game play

I'm not so sure that's true. It's not like you'd swap regularly. Remember how the old Final Fantasy games were done on PS1? 3, 4 disks apiece? You went in order from disk 1 to disk 4, with no need to swap disks mid-game.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: shud
PS3 will kill Xbox360...but it will cost you. Games are supposedly going to be $60-$70 too.

PS2 games (and by that I mean exclusive titles to the PS2) were always leaps and bounds better than Xbox titles, except for maybe Ninja Gaiden. I also think the regular DVD format will eventually hurt Xbox360.......but it will sell a bajillion copies because people want to play Halo with thumbsticks.

Also, I think Sony has a spot for a 2.5" hdd (laptop drive) to go, they just aren't packaging one. The 20gb Xbox360 drive is pretty weak, too, but it's nice to have from the get go.

If you think that PS3 will kill *anything* with a $400 price point and $60-70 software, you're crazy. People do, believe it or not, *care* about the price they pay for games. We have these things called "budgets", you see.

Also, you're on crack if you think PS2 titles were always better than XBox titles. In *every* case where the two had the same title, the XBox version was superior.

Jason

 

[Scurvy]

James3shin wrote

its going to come down to the games, like it always has.

sorry, have to disagree. It hasn't "come down to the games" for a couple generations. Sony and Microsoft have convinced the majority of young men that the tech-specs of their respective consoles, and the level of photo-realism they can generate under controlled conditions, is the true measure of the product. Nobody pays attention to the games anymore, and as a result the mainstream video game market gets flooded with repetitive, genre-locked crap. For the next generation of games, there'll be another series of football games where the sweat beads in the cut scenes look slightly more wet, and another bunch of pseudo-medieval RPG's in which the characters either look more and more like the Lord of the Rings movies, or else more and more like Katherine Hepburn with a sword. And of course, we'll get a few volleyball games with more jiggly boobs. (I like jiggly boobs, but prefer real ones.)

I think I'll play some Megaman when I get home tonight.

 

[Queasy]

Just remember this before you start buying all the PS3 spec sheet hype.

Not saying that the Xbox/Xbox360 is without hype but at least they don't blatantly lie about the features offered and with tech demos that aren't representative of actual gameplay.

I'll wait until the PS3 is almost released before I decide to buy one. I may pick up a couple anyways just to sell at a profit to the people that have to have them.

 

[shud]

Originally posted by: skace

It's not a surprise that on a computer tech forum, there's a bunch of Xbox lovers. I don't want to play console games online because I'm privy to the fact that kb/mouse is infinitely more robust than using a thumbstick, no matter what type of game you're playing (save sports and console RPGs). I don't think online gaming is as big as the industry makes it out to be. Halo is the only online console game that I even know of where a significant number of people play online, and it still can't match PC online gaming.

I own PS2 and Xbox and my PS2 has received hundreds of hours more use. I will be getting both PS3 and Xbox360. Maybe my usage will change? Who knows. I don't think the hard drive is that big of an issue.

Amen! There are only specific games which work well online. FPS, RTS, and MMORPGS and all of these the PC has in SPADES. And by spades, I mean a metric fvckton.

What doesn't the PC have? Great offline titles. What does the PS2 have? Amazing offline titles. Why do I buy a console? To play with people who are next to me IRL or to play offline games. Why do I buy a PC? To play games competitively online. I will tell you, if the entire Xbox360 lineup is hinged directly to online play it will fail to get my money once again. You cannot package POORLY MADE pc games (see Halo1/2) and resell me game content that I had on my PC in fvcking 1995.

The only reason I will purchase Xbox360 is if it brings unique titles that I cannot get on my PC that make me want to play them. Only way. It won't be specs, it won't be a goddamn media center or because I need an Xbox live account.

Most of the games on the Playstation seem geared toward giving 14 year old boys a stiffie. That's ok, but I guess I'm oldschool - I keep my video games and smut in different closets.

Stupid response. What are you referring to in this instance? The ungodly number of top notch rpg games?

At this point, I OWN over 60 games for my PS2. I own roughly 20 for my GC (although some very extremely good titles).

There is a good possibility I will buy all 3 game consoles for next gen, but this possibility is dependant on whether the Xbox360 is going to bring anything to the table that I can't get on my PC/PS3. If it doesn't, I will spare that purchase and just get the Revolution/PS3.

Well I'm glad someone agrees with me.

Anyone saying that PS2 games are geared towards giving 14 year olds a stiffie while Xbox has a game called "Dead or Alive: Extreme Beach Volleyball" (if you can't tell what it is, IGN it) obviously has no idea what they are talking about.

PS2 is the nerd while Xbox is the fratboy.

 

[Scurvy]

All I said about Xbox is it is, and the next one will probably also be, the best console for driving games. The tendency for games on that system to sell themselves with the promise of adolescent titillation is just as prevalent on Xbox as PS2. On that point, you're absolutely correct. Read my posts again ... I don't like M$ or Sony being in the game market.

 

[shud]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: shud
PS3 will kill Xbox360...but it will cost you. Games are supposedly going to be $60-$70 too.

PS2 games (and by that I mean exclusive titles to the PS2) were always leaps and bounds better than Xbox titles, except for maybe Ninja Gaiden. I also think the regular DVD format will eventually hurt Xbox360.......but it will sell a bajillion copies because people want to play Halo with thumbsticks.

Also, I think Sony has a spot for a 2.5" hdd (laptop drive) to go, they just aren't packaging one. The 20gb Xbox360 drive is pretty weak, too, but it's nice to have from the get go.

If you think that PS3 will kill *anything* with a $400 price point and $60-70 software, you're crazy. People do, believe it or not, *care* about the price they pay for games. We have these things called "budgets", you see.

Also, you're on crack if you think PS2 titles were always better than XBox titles. In *every* case where the two had the same title, the XBox version was superior.

Jason

Are you blind or just being this ignorant on purpose? What don't you understand about EXCLUSIVE TITLE that makes you think I was talking about games that were released on both Xbox and PS2? Seriously. I was talking about titles exclusively released for PS2 and I don't know how I could have been any more obvious. Please read before you accuse me of being on crack.

And by "kill anything", I meant as far as gameplay and graphics are concerned. Not about price, which is why I included the qualifier "it will cost you". Again this seems to be something you skimmed over.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: SALvation

Originally posted by: vshah

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

Originally posted by: cliftonite
Well if they start releasing HD content (movies and tv shows) on blue-ray discs and the first gen players are more than the PS3, then I would think about buying the PS3.

Something that leaned me towards PS3 is their 1080p HDTV support, while Xbox360 only supports 720p

remember though that EVERY xbox game will be 720p, while only a select few ps3 games will be 1080p

Wrong. 1080p will be the standard resolution for PS3 games.

Actually, that hasn't been announced. The announcement stated 1080p standard resolution supported. That's not a pronouncement that all games will be in 1080p. Given that a tiny fraction of the HD market is 1080p capable, and even the HD amrket *itself* is a tiny fraction of the TV market, 1080p support is nearly entirely irrelevant.

Jason

 

[AccruedExpenditure]

Nintendo will pwn all.

 

[Continuity27]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
The point, though, is that the blue ray drive has *nowhere near* the performance of a hard drive (1x Blu-Ray is 54Mb/sec, or about 6.75MB/sec, slightly slower than a 48X CDROM and less than half the speed of 12X DVD)

You're comparing 1x Blu Ray to 48x CD-ROM, that's actually not a fair comparison. Audio CDs play at 1x, DVD movies play at 1x, Blu-Ray movies will play at 1x, but data will NOT move at 1x.

Blu Ray 1x is as fast as 38.27x CD and 4.87x DVD. The fastest you can spin a CD is 52x(73.38 Mbps or 9.17 MB/s), the fastest you can spin a DVD is 16x (177.28 Mbps or 23.6 MB/s). They already have 6x Blu-Ray speeds in development, which is 324Mbps or 40.5MB/s. That's substantially more than DVD speeds. And it actually does approach hard drive speeds.

 

[shud]

Originally posted by: AccruedExpenditure
Nintendo will pwn all.

Any word on whether the Revolution is going to charge you to get the older games?