Report: Xbox 360 successor can tolerate only brief Internet interruptions

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Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Our point? It doesn't matter. What matters is company image. That's it.

To quote my doctor, "You aren't thinking fourth dimensionally!"

Of course, it matters! Company image doesn't matter at all if there's no bad press to affect it. There would be no bad press if the Internet mob could reach down into their pants and untwist their knickers. Hence, my point that none of it would matter if people could just grow some thicker skin. Like I said, I don't understand why people have to get so damned offended over such weak comments. Are their egos really that fragile? :|

#dealwithit
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,775
0
76
To quote my doctor, "You aren't thinking fourth dimensionally!"

Of course, it matters! Company image doesn't matter at all if there's no bad press to affect it. There would be no bad press if the Internet mob could reach down into their pants and untwist their knickers. Hence, my point that none of it would matter if people could just grow some thicker skin. Like I said, I don't understand why people have to get so damned offended over such weak comments. Are their egos really that fragile? :|

#dealwithit

More like HIS ego is fevered and overblown...much like a lot of people on the internet.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126

Oh snap. All you ppl's that think the always online is just fine. There you go...and before you go making all those excuses, just..really think hard about it. Do you really want your game play time that you PAY for dictated by a company? (Not saying the rumors are true, but I'm pretty sure MS thought long and hard about doing it, and if not 720, the gen after that). The other bad side of it is, once they would decide to quit supporting it, that's it...forced upgrades to the next gen, because you can't play your
"old games" 10 years later ;p (let's not pretend none of you play old games).

(I just read the article about the family plan stuff..wtf all those people with 3-4 xbox 360's??) Kids are so spoiled these days..
 
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cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
To quote my doctor, "You aren't thinking fourth dimensionally!"

Of course, it matters! Company image doesn't matter at all if there's no bad press to affect it. There would be no bad press if the Internet mob could reach down into their pants and untwist their knickers. Hence, my point that none of it would matter if people could just grow some thicker skin. Like I said, I don't understand why people have to get so damned offended over such weak comments. Are their egos really that fragile? :|

#dealwithit

You obviously don't understand the corporate world.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
You obviously don't understand the corporate world.

Ugh, you make me want to face-desk repeatedly to remove the stupid from my brain. Why is it so difficult to actually read what I wrote? Seriously. I will attempt to make it even more clear with a single-sentence summary:

If silly Internet kids didn't make big deal out of tweets, there wouldn't be any bad press for him to have lost his job over.

Although, this discussion is probably worthless, because I doubt that you're ever going to agree with me that his tweets were nothing but harmless words.
 

zebrax2

Senior member
Nov 18, 2007
972
62
91
If silly Internet kids didn't make big deal out of tweets, there wouldn't be any bad press for him to have lost his job over.

My view on this is that it is similar to shouting "bomb" on an airplane as a joke.

Shout "bomb" on an airplane = Started posting crap on twitter
People start to panic = People start taking it as a hint of "always on" on next console
You get arrested = He got fired

In both situations the person didn't mean any harm but caused it anyway. The problem is that he, a recognized microsoft employee, posted those things where the public, many of which didn't know he was trolling someone, could see them.
 
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Q

Lifer
Jul 21, 2005
12,060
4
81
I think what this article is really stating, is that the development consoles require always on internet connection. This is probably a security measure to ensure they are accounted for and don't make it out into the wild. From what I've been told, MS was already very wary about who got a development Xbox 360, and that would make this going a step further.

Now, will this make it into launch? Of course not. Xbox Live has, what, 30 million subscribers? They've sold 74 million Xbox's. That is less than half. MS isn't stupid enough to cut it's available market in half.

I agree with this. There is NO way MS is going to require an internet connection to play. Think about it.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Ugh, you make me want to face-desk repeatedly to remove the stupid from my brain. Why is it so difficult to actually read what I wrote? Seriously. I will attempt to make it even more clear with a single-sentence summary:

If silly Internet kids didn't make big deal out of tweets, there wouldn't be any bad press for him to have lost his job over.

Although, this discussion is probably worthless, because I doubt that you're ever going to agree with me that his tweets were nothing but harmless words.

Again, you...do...not...understand...the...corporate...world. /end
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I agree with this. There is NO way MS is going to require an internet connection to play. Think about it.

Well, you see... that is the problem. It's gossip, and they aren't thinking about it. Much like this fellow...

Again, you...do...not...understand...the...corporate...world. /end

Going straight for an ad hominem, and one full of naivety at that. You really are a fool.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
You all Xbox fans need to keep the rage going though. You can't just assume MS is going to make the smart decision and not do something this stupid. Even after Diablo 3 EA still went and did SimCity. This was all after even Ubisoft did their always on DRM and boned that up.

These companies desperately want this always on DRM to function because they think it will stop piracy and more importantly the used game market. They want to do a STEAM version on the consoles. STEAM is everything these console makers want, always on DRM (even the offline version needs to be online and then it's only offline for a certain time period then needs online verification again) and most importantly STEAM doesn't allow reselling of games.

So maybe not this generation, but it's coming to a console near you if you let it.
 

American Gunner

Platinum Member
Aug 26, 2010
2,399
0
71
I could see it happening in the generation after this next one. Hopefully by then our country will have solid Internet everywhere.
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,504
12
0
You all Xbox fans need to keep the rage going though. You can't just assume MS is going to make the smart decision and not do something this stupid. Even after Diablo 3 EA still went and did SimCity. This was all after even Ubisoft did their always on DRM and boned that up.

These companies desperately want this always on DRM to function because they think it will stop piracy and more importantly the used game market. They want to do a STEAM version on the consoles. STEAM is everything these console makers want, always on DRM (even the offline version needs to be online and then it's only offline for a certain time period then needs online verification again) and most importantly STEAM doesn't allow reselling of games.

So maybe not this generation, but it's coming to a console near you if you let it.

Steam isn't always on DRM. You only need to log in periodically. You can play games off line.

Always online does have a lot of benefits for publishers. It closes the used and piracy markets of course. That's just the tip of the iceberg though. One thing they can't do with offline gaming is track the market. See who's playing what, how long they're playing it, how often, what other games they have. Lots of marketing data ripe for the plucking there. That's the seedier side of it. Not to mention dynamic in-game advertising and micro-transactions. It will eventually cut the middle man out entirely. Publishers control the entire sales and distribution chains. Monopolizes the industry and could lead to higher prices.

The end user doesn't see a heck of a lot of benefit from this. It could lead to more free-to-play titles I suppose. That's really the problem, isn't it. What's in it for me?
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
You all Xbox fans need to keep the rage going though. You can't just assume MS is going to make the smart decision and not do something this stupid. Even after Diablo 3 EA still went and did SimCity. This was all after even Ubisoft did their always on DRM and boned that up.

What's interesting is the staunch difference between Diablo III and SimCity. Originally, Maxis/EA attempted to pass off that SimCity was a lot more like Diablo III, but we eventually found out that was not the case. Diablo III only suffered from its "Error 37" for maybe about 12-24 hours, and no features were removed from the game to support server stability. (There were features delayed prior to launch though such as the AH and PVP.)

In other words, apart from server maintenance, Diablo III has been a fairly rock-solid experience... or at least that's how I remember it as I played from launch. Of course, that isn't saying anything about the quality of the game itself, but that's not in question here.

These companies desperately want this always on DRM to function because they think it will stop piracy and more importantly the used game market. They want to do a STEAM version on the consoles. STEAM is everything these console makers want, always on DRM (even the offline version needs to be online and then it's only offline for a certain time period then needs online verification again) and most importantly STEAM doesn't allow reselling of games.

What stuck out to me when I read this is... who says that piracy is really a problem on the consoles? I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but is it really as large of an issue? I would also put forth the idea that a good online system helps to weed out these nefarious types by detecting them or simply making them choose to not chance it. For example, do you want to hack your 360 and chance having your entire XBOX Live account banned?

Honestly, I don't see them pushing people toward always online, but I do see them pushing people toward digital downloads. Digital downloads cannot be resold (except maybe in the EU eventually?), and you avoid excess retailer-related costs (packaging, distribution, etc.). Also, by associating content directly with someone's specific identifier, you add more risk as to whether cheating/stealing is worth it. For example, if you check the PC section, you will see people warn against using shady key sites because "you don't want your Steam account banned." Why is that? Some people have hundreds of games on their account, and a banned account means you lose access to all of your games.

If I had to guess, the idea of "always on" would refer to the console having a low-powered sleep mode where it's able to wake up to do certain things. This is especially necessary if it wishes to become a staple in the living room, which is something that Microsoft has been inching toward. It will also allow it to be like the Playstation 3 and upload game saves or download updates.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
What's interesting is the staunch difference between Diablo III and SimCity. Originally, Maxis/EA attempted to pass off that SimCity was a lot more like Diablo III, but we eventually found out that was not the case. Diablo III only suffered from its "Error 37" for maybe about 12-24 hours, and no features were removed from the game to support server stability. (There were features delayed prior to launch though such as the AH and PVP.)

In other words, apart from server maintenance, Diablo III has been a fairly rock-solid experience... or at least that's how I remember it as I played from launch. Of course, that isn't saying anything about the quality of the game itself, but that's not in question here.



What stuck out to me when I read this is... who says that piracy is really a problem on the consoles? I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but is it really as large of an issue? I would also put forth the idea that a good online system helps to weed out these nefarious types by detecting them or simply making them choose to not chance it. For example, do you want to hack your 360 and chance having your entire XBOX Live account banned?

Honestly, I don't see them pushing people toward always online, but I do see them pushing people toward digital downloads. Digital downloads cannot be resold (except maybe in the EU eventually?), and you avoid excess retailer-related costs (packaging, distribution, etc.). Also, by associating content directly with someone's specific identifier, you add more risk as to whether cheating/stealing is worth it. For example, if you check the PC section, you will see people warn against using shady key sites because "you don't want your Steam account banned." Why is that? Some people have hundreds of games on their account, and a banned account means you lose access to all of your games.

If I had to guess, the idea of "always on" would refer to the console having a low-powered sleep mode where it's able to wake up to do certain things. This is especially necessary if it wishes to become a staple in the living room, which is something that Microsoft has been inching toward. It will also allow it to be like the Playstation 3 and upload game saves or download updates.




I really think the always on is about trying to turn the next Xbox into the be all and end all of media devices for the living room.

I too don't think piracy is that big a deal in any media market, but it's the big evil baddie that these companies are using to go after reputable and legal business that they couldn't normally go after, such as the used game market.

I'm not going to necessarily disagree with you mmntech in regards to STEAM, however if your connection craps out and you didn't go offline prior to that you can't go offline once your connection is offline. Regardless of always on or needing to be on every couple days/weeks/once a month if your connection happens to crap out at the time before you can reauthenticate your purchases the end result to the customer is the same. It is however the lesser of the evils that these companies have tried to do to get at the used game market. Which is what I primarily think all this online shenanigans is aimed at.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Well, you see... that is the problem. It's gossip, and they aren't thinking about it. Much like this fellow...



Going straight for an ad hominem, and one full of naivety at that. You really are a fool.

No you are just so full of bs. The corporate world needs a good image. Wherever the bad image comes from they will try to fix it. You just want to blame the internet for being the internet which proves to me you don't really understand at all why a company values their image. There are companies who actually make their living off of cleaning up the online image of another company.
 
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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
No you are just so full of bs. The corporate world needs a good image. Wherever the bad image comes from they will try to fix it. You just want to blame the internet for being the internet.

I don't think so. Plenty of companies have a bad image and still continue to thrive. EA, Apple, MS. The hate over these companies is often blind and for no real reason other than it is popular to hate them. Don't think so? 2 years in a row, EA is voted worst company in America. Beating out a company that illegally foreclosed on people's homes and left them with no place to live. Yeah, ME3 ending was much worse than that.

Face it, the internet is full of loud, whiny bitches who will make a big deal about everything that is not important and ignore real life issues because most of them are out of touch with reality.

Oh and another case of people blowing stupid things out of proportion: Justin Bieber wrote some crap at the Ann Frank museum that he thought she would have been a fan of his, if their times had matched up. This was based on the fact that she actually kept up with pop culture before the whole Nazi thing. Oh, but the internet is so upset he is 'disrespecting' her memory or being insensitive somehow... Seriously?
 
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cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I don't think so. Plenty of companies have a bad image and still continue to thrive. EA, Apple, MS. The hate over these companies is often blind and for no real reason other than it is popular to hate them. Don't think so? 2 years in a row, EA is voted worst company in America. Beating out a company that illegally foreclosed on people's homes and left them with no place to live. Yeah, ME3 ending was much worse than that.

Face it, the internet is full of loud, whiny bitches who will make a big deal about everything that is not important and ignore real life issues because most of them are out of touch with reality.

People who lost their house probably couldn't afford it and provably couldn't afford a computer to cone online and bitch. And who would they bitch to?
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
You obviously have no idea of the issues. And a good number of them was soldiers who were currently deployed. But I'm sure if you disagree with the war, its okay for a 23 year old who has no decision in the war to be punished.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
No you are just so full of bs. The corporate world needs a good image.

I don't see where I've ever disagreed with companies typically trying to keep up a good company image.

You just want to blame the internet for being the internet

I find your wording rather interesting. It reminds me a lot of those parents that let their children run around like little hellions all while saying, "kids will be kids!"

So, yes... if "being the Internet" means that people get all worked up over nothing, then yes... I am blaming people on the Internet for "being the Internet."

You just want to blame the internet for being the internet which proves to me you don't really understand at all why a company values their image.

I really hope that you realize why this sentence makes absolutely no sense. You are stating that because I am blaming a specific party involved in this incident (the Internet) that I don't understand the reasoning behind why another party reacted the way they did (corporate image). Think about that for a minute.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I have thought about it, and the conclusion is you don't understand business. Microsoft knows about the internet. They don't care that people get worked up over nothing. The whole deal is that he got them worked up in the first place by making remarks that put him, as a public figure via twitter and microsoft, in some bad press. This would have been handled similarly if it was a printed interview in a major news paper where he made snide remarks, or on some TV program. The media makes little difference.

Believe me I know full well that people on the internet get worked up over little crap, but when you are part of a big company you need to remember that what you say in regards to products or services even jokingly looks bad on the company. Microsoft probably knows it was a joke but to set an example they probably came down hard on him and thus he left the company.

What I'm saying and I think you're overlooking is that Microsoft knows all about how people act online. They don't seem to like their employees acting this way online.
 

Sulaco

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2003
3,860
44
91
Oh, but the internet is so upset he is 'disrespecting' her memory or being insensitive somehow... Seriously?

It might have something to do with him throwing up gang signs like a total twat outside for the paparazzi.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
It might have something to do with him throwing up gang signs like a total twat outside for the paparazzi.

Nah, he does that everywhere. It would be discrimination if he refrained from being an asshat in public due to Ann Frank.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I have thought about it, and the conclusion is you don't understand business.

The only conclusion that can be made from this thread so far is that this is downright the most idiotic argument that I have ever been in on my 10+ years on this forum... and I've spent time in P&N. Throughout this whole silly debacle, I've been talking about one thing, you've been talking about another, and from your own inane rambling, you've managed to determine baseless "facts" about me, which by the way, I do not appreciate.

However, since I am as stubborn as an ox, I shall make one last attempt to sum up my original proposal with a rewording of a well-known silly saying:

"If a tweet is tweeted on the Twitter and no one is around to retweet it, does it make a splash?"
 
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