Report: Xbox 720 Will Be Smaller, Cheaper Than Xbox 360

[RussianSensation]

More info in this article by Xbitlabs.

My thoughts:

1) ARM CPU - doesn't sound too promising. How is ARM CPU going to be good enough for next generation physics effects in games and esp. for it to last another 6-7 years (like Xbox360 did)? At that point, I'd much rather opt for a die-shrunk Phenom II X4 965 @ 3.4ghz. Newegg is selling this CPU for about $115 after coupon. I am sure if MS really tried, they could get this CPU for $90 or so from AMD directly. A Phenom II X4 @ 3.4ghz would smoke an ARM SoC design!

2) Cheaper than the 360 - I didn't think $299 for the Core version was that expensive in 2005. Certainly, even $399 for a console that will last 6-7 years is not that expensive. But more worrying, if they are going to make it cheaper, that likely means even less powerful components - so no hope for a powerful discrete GPU then?

3) Windows 9 - No idea why this is an advantage. Windows OS actually brings a fairly large overhead on the PC. It's a good OS for an all-around computer but has huge overhead for games.

Overall, this news has me totally disappointed. I was hoping the next generation of consoles will be a lot more powerful, especially since CPUs and GPUs will have migrated by 22-28nm processes by then. I hope this doesn't bring us 6-7 years of console ports with stagnant graphical capabilities.

 

[Queasy]

2) Cheaper than the 360 - I didn't think $299 for the Core version was that expensive in 2005. Certainly, even $399 for a console that will last 6-7 years is not that expensive. But more worrying, if they are going to make it cheaper, that likely means even less powerful components - so no hope for a powerful discrete GPU then?

I think they mean cheaper than the Xbox 360 at launch which was $399.99 for the 'real' version. I would expect the next Xbox to be around $299.99 which is reasonable for a console at launch. I honestly can't believe the 360 still is going strong at $299.99 right now though.

As for the GPU, everything is moving to 'system on a chip' and I would expect the same with the next Xbox - GPU and CPU combined on a single chip.

 

[88MVP]

More info in this article by Xbitlabs.
My thoughts:

3) Windows 9 - No idea why this is an advantage. Windows OS actually brings a fairly large overhead on the PC. It's a good OS for an all-around computer but has huge overhead for games.

Having the console OS based on Windows 9 and having the console running the standard version of the OS with all its overhead in the background are two entirely different things. I wouldn't worry about this.

 

[darkewaffle]

Goddamnit, consoles are becoming consolized!

:awe:

 

[AstroManLuca]

This describes me as well. I had 2 XBL subscriptions and let both expire because I didn't play games online and there is no way I am going to way for the privilege of using Netflix on the Xbox. That, and the constantly dying hardware (I've had 4 or 5 360s) made me buy a PS3 which I've been impressed with. If not for the fact that my brothers have Xboxes and we do like to play sports games together, I'd only buy games for the PS3.

Sorry MS, but you blew it with your overpriced accessories, unreliable hardware, and ridiculous XBL costs and policies. If I buy a console next generation, I'm likely going with a PS4.

This fall when my subscription was about to expire, I decided to spend $90 to get a WDTV instead of ~$50 to get another year of Xbox Live. Figure if the WDTV lasts two years it's the cheaper option, plus it's a much better media center device. Only disadvantage is I no longer have a DVD player in the living room, but I hardly ever watch DVDs since I canceled that portion of my Netflix account.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

This fall when my subscription was about to expire, I decided to spend $90 to get a WDTV instead of ~$50 to get another year of Xbox Live.

That is pretty much what I did too, except I went with one of the Roku 2 units for $80 IIRC.

 

[Locut0s]

Why is everuone here assuming that smaller and cheaper than the Xbox 360 means not a significant upgrade?!??

Do you guys know what's actually in the 360!? GPU wise we are talking about a chip that is roughly the equivalent of a desktop GTX 8800 or so or less! (very roughly). Now fast forwards ANOTHER 1 to 2 years. Even if they use hardware that is not at all top of the line, by THAT point it will still be a very big increase over the 360. And remember what really makes a console is the fixed hardware specs + ease of programmability + developer experience with the API/platform.

So I get that people are disappointed that it won't have QUINTUPLE PHOTOREALISTIC 720 DEG SLI GPUS under the hood, but don't make it out to be slower than the 360!

 

[RobDickinson]

ARM is quite similar tot he powerPC chip in the 360 , throw enough cores/mhz at it and it will be fine.

Remember 360 is 2004 technology currently competing against 2011 PC's, it gets slaughtered.

As for windows9 I assume by the the core functionality (remember this will be running on phones!) will be slick and fast.

 

[Rezist]

ARM is quite similar tot he powerPC chip in the 360 , throw enough cores/mhz at it and it will be fine.

Remember 360 is 2004 technology currently competing against 2011 PC's, it gets slaughtered.

As for windows9 I assume by the the core functionality (remember this will be running on phones!) will be slick and fast.

Actually those IBM PowerPC cores are pretty powerful in the 360/PS3 and they were seriously cache starved. Also if I'm not mistaken is there not a fee with every x86 chip that is sold (licensing)? MS and Sony do not buy there GPU's or CPU's they hire TSMC/IBM to manufacture them, they could never do that with a x86 chip. They just paid AMD/IBM for the technology and they produce as many units as they like.

I would expect again that they go with a improved IBM core and a AMD graphics option. They will likely go SoC right off the bat as well with a way smaller power supply and way lower TDP, they can't afford to have a RROD issue again. The 360/PS3 launched with 200W power consumption at peak, now there less then 100W.

 

[Dari]

Will it be backward compatible? this is critical if they want people to move their current download-only games to the new system. If not, I will wait a good while before upgrading, if ever.

 

[slayer202]

Haven't most consoles been sold for a loss? Of course, to be made up with games and accessories.

 

[slayer202]

More info in this article by Xbitlabs.

My thoughts:

1) ARM CPU - doesn't sound too promising. How is ARM CPU going to be good enough for next generation physics effects in games and esp. for it to last another 6-7 years (like Xbox360 did)? At that point, I'd much rather opt for a die-shrunk Phenom II X4 965 @ 3.4ghz. Newegg is selling this CPU for about $115 after coupon. I am sure if MS really tried, they could get this CPU for $90 or so from AMD directly. A Phenom II X4 @ 3.4ghz would smoke an ARM SoC design!

:$

If newegg is selling it for $115, you better believe microsoft could get it for way way way less than $90. $90 for the cpu would be way too expensive if you were building a console

not that it really matters, just wanted to point that out ()

 

[Locut0s]

Haven't most consoles been sold for a loss? Of course, to be made up with games and accessories.

All the high end ones I believe so. They make a small profit on some of the lower end consoles like the Wii. But yeah it's all about getting a customer base then the games and accessories.

 

[Rage187]

Will it be backward compatible? this is critical if they want people to move their current download-only games to the new system. If not, I will wait a good while before upgrading, if ever.

This is my concern. New processor architecture usually means no backwards compatibility.

 

[Locut0s]

This is my concern. New processor architecture usually means no backwards compatibility.

Yeah if they go with an ARM processor I think we can kiss backwards compatibility goodbye.

 

[HeXen]

Colour me skeptical... A smaller, cheaper Xbox these days would seem to be keeping the status quo.... Just a bit better than what is out now, but not a step up....

this.

 

[HeXen]

offtopically, i read Sony plans to stay with a slightly different Cell cpu design. one thats more appealing to developers apparently. but likely not much more powerful.

 

[M0RPH]

After MS and Sony got schooled by the much less technically capable Wii, would anyone be surprised if they don't make another high-powered system that loses money on each box? They'll concentrate on gameplay and things like Kinect(sp?) rather than on powerful graphics.

 

[exdeath]

I'm still figuring out why it costs $15 a month to type in "67.23.125.7" when I want to play co-op with a friend...

 

[exdeath]

offtopically, i read Sony plans to stay with a slightly different Cell cpu design. one thats more appealing to developers apparently. but likely not much more powerful.

Cell can be awesome if you aren't a n00b programmer and trying to program it like a PC. If you aren't saturating the bus 100% and consuming and copying excessive amounts of RAM on the PS3, you're doing it wrong. PS2-PS3 programming is all about mastering the DMA system and understanding the concept of streaming.

I had incredible fun exploiting the PS2 and absolutely abusing it's powerful chained packet driven 128 bit DMAC and VIF/GIF systems. Oh yeah those were the days... gskick completed buffer A to GS for rasterizing while geometry processing and clipping buffer B with VU while DMA/VIF is unpacking the next set to buffer C... you could get alot done in 16k of VU RAM with DMA driving everything automatically. Once you wrote your DMA packet headers in linked list format, inserted correct sync flags, and kicked off the self addressed chain, everything just magically happened, main CPU didn't really have squat to do except actual game play. <= 2MB texture RAM went a long way when you had the bus bandwidth to stream your next texture in on an as needed basis instead of trying to reduce everything in size and color depth to fit it all in there at once (eg AGP card mindset). I had many nights of fun with my pipelined 7 cycle clipper and perspective transform (based around the 7 cycle division by W)... ANYWAY...

If I had the time I'd love to screw around with Cell.

Most programmers are still in the PC mindset of staying off the bus because it's bad. This isn't ISA/PCI/AGP anymore.

But then again in today's game industry every developer only cares about how fast they can develop their next Call of Duty clone sequel simultaneously on 15 different platforms at once every 3 months, so no wonder they would prefer everything dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. PS2/3 is radically different from your typical unified memory multi CPU architecture.

 

[Locut0s]

I'm still figuring out why it costs $15 a month to type in "67.23.125.7" when I want to play co-op with a friend...

Because MS wants to control the multiplayer experience and doesn't want companies to be able to opt out of it. And if that means you still have to sign into MS just to play co-op with your friend all the better for MS. :twisted:

 

[Sonikku]

I'm guessing Microsoft and Sony are going the cheap route because it took them a couple years to stop taking a loss on each console sold and a couple more years before they recouped their losses before actually making a profit, all the while Nintendo cleaned both their clocks with dirt cheap software that turned a profit on each system on day 1. The way they probably figure it, if they use collusion to ensure neither brand has a significant advantage over the other technically, then it won't matter if neither are bleeding edge technology as whatever console you buy you're no further ahead from a spec perspective. All the while they reap higher margins from dirt cheap hardware.

 

[AstroManLuca]

I'm still figuring out why it costs $15 a month to type in "67.23.125.7" when I want to play co-op with a friend...

How is it $15 a month? It's $60 a year, and that's if you DON'T look for a deal on Xbox Live cards (usually around $40 for a year).

I don't care about Xbox Live anyway, I don't play online anymore (or at all for that matter; 100% of my gaming in the past three months has been on my PC). But at least get the price right.

Anyway, for that reason alone I likely won't pick up a next-gen console until several years into the cycle, if ever. Doubly so if my old downloaded games don't work.

 

[ElFenix]

i'm really thinking this is a phone/handheld platform

 

[Rage187]

I think I figured this out.

It will be small and underpowered because it won't actually be playing local games. It will be streaming them like Onlive.