Republicans engineer recessions to stall Dem Presidents.

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,827
49,531
136
They can analye it till the cows come home. They were similiar market collapses yet one lasted less than a year and a lot of people still think we were in the last one. Both Stimulus packages were in the form of cash spent and tax cuts.

They were not similar market collapses in any way, shape, or form.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
That's one of Bush's top regulators wielding the chainsaw, so that financiers could create "innovative financial instruments", letting us all buy the house of our dreams with a no doc subprime negative amortization private label ARM, then sell the MBS to the funds in our pensions & 401k's... bet heavily against their own creations with derivatives. What could go wrong?

At best, Repub ideology & practice is naive & foolish. At worst, it's enabling the lootocracy. Either way, their idea of governance is failure to do so effectively in a way that benefits all americans, not just a very wealthy very few.

Uh, what exactly did Gilleran help create as director of OTS?
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,662
492
126
Good points, except that there was not a recession after Clinton's tax hikes were removed, for the next recession (as measured by NBER) started March 2001 and the first Bush tax cuts did not go into affect until June 2001. Unless you feel that people start spending less because they will soon have more money to spend, this cannot be attributed to the Bush tax cuts.

That's my point the recession that occurred before the one we are in now but after President Clinton left office took place when Clinton's tax rates were in effect and it wasn't a prolonged recession.

The Bush Tax cuts came in two stages (if I remember right) before 2008 and they removed Clinton's tax rates. This recession occurred when President Bush's tax rates have had some time to influence the economy.

I also mentioned the Repeal of Glass Steagall which Clinton undoubtedly helped with even if he didn't do it by himself. The early 2000's recession probably wasn't affected so much by the repeal as the recession that started in 2008 (2007?) was (is).
 
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blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,662
492
126
It was a Catastrophic collapse of an entire market that NEVER returned to what it was and a horrific attack on US soil that shut down the world market

If you're going to bring that into it then don't forget that President Clinton, VP Gore, and Secretary Albreight warned their respective counterparts that a certain someone was a threat that needed to be paid attention to.

Not only that but around a month before the attacks a CIA courier was sent to President Bush's ranch to personally brief him and was told something to the affect of "Ok, you covered your ass."

I see nothing but useless talking points in your posts.

And considering the repetition of talking points that your posts consist of... It's almost certain that this post in response to yours was a complete waste of time
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
That's my point the recession that occurred before the one we are in now but after President Clinton left office took place when Clinton's tax rates were in effect and it wasn't a prolonged recession.

The Bush Tax cuts came in two stages (if I remember right) before 2008 and they removed Clinton's tax rates. This recession occurred when President Bush's tax rates have had some time to influence the economy.

I also mentioned the Repeal of Glass Steagall which Clinton undoubtedly helped with even if he didn't do it by himself. The early 2000's recession probably wasn't affected so much by the repeal as the recession that started in 2008 (2007?) was (is).
Bush tax cuts were in 2001 & 2003. Hard to understand how tax cuts could cause a recession though, especially if you subscribe to stimulus programs where government spends more to fix recessions. What the tax cuts did do is reduce federal income, which in combination with profligate spending reduce government's ability to spend more during recessions without severe consequences. It used to be a truism that tax cuts paid for themselves through increased economic activity, but the fed now aggressively manages growth rates to fight inflation. Thus tax cuts drop revenue the first year or three, then just when they are beginning to pay back, the money supply is tightened and interest rates raised, choking back the growth to a level deemed safe. We didn't really see this with the Bush tax cuts because, after rising in 2007/2008 to 110% of 2001 levels, individual income tax revenues crashed as the economy crashed, but in general I think it holds true. And if so, while tax cuts should help strengthen the economy, they ultimately weaken the government and its ability to fight a recession.

I too don't believe that Glass-Steagall had any effect in causing the Great Recession, but I do believe its repeal was largely responsible for turning a normal if nasty recession into a country-killer. I can't blame Clinton too much though; seeing as though the repeal was a Republican-led bipartisan project (and therefore the bipartisan cooperation we supposedly all want), he wasn't doing anything different that a Republican President would have done.
 

NesuD

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,999
106
106
I left it out because it is hard to find a trend of recessions with the exit of Dems. Usually, there is a magical boost in the economy when a Dem goes out of the Oval Office over the last 40+ years.


Gee, I wonder why that could be....

My god! Really! How many Dem presidents have we had in the last 40 years? Lets see Jimmy Carter left us with a recession. Then there was lets see Bill Clinton Left office with a recession. The only other Dem president in the last 40 years has yet to leave office. In that case i would say the Democratic Presidents of the last 40 years are batting .1000.

You can't find a trend in that? Recessions have little to do with who the president is anyway. Congress has far more effect on the economy then the president because they are the ones with the constitutional authority to spend our tax dollars. The president cannot spend a dime without their approval.

Take off the blinders and look around you for a change.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
If you're going to bring that into it then don't forget that President Clinton, VP Gore, and Secretary Albreight warned their respective counterparts that a certain someone was a threat that needed to be paid attention to.

Not only that but around a month before the attacks a CIA courier was sent to President Bush's ranch to personally brief him and was told something to the affect of "Ok, you covered your ass."

I see nothing but useless talking points in your posts.

And considering the repetition of talking points that your posts consist of... It's almost certain that this post in response to yours was a complete waste of time

You are lame as hell for playing that card but you mean the certain someone that Clinton let go?
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,662
492
126
Hard to understand how tax cuts could cause a recession though, especially if you subscribe to stimulus programs where government spends more to fix recessions.

I'm not saying tax cuts are causing a recession. I'm pointing out that if you look at the periods in the last century where there is a relatively high tax rate for the upper margins the recessions that took place during those periods tended to be relatively shorter in comparison to recessions that take place when the tax rates were lower.

I realize that correlation doesn't necessary equate to causation but the correlation is worth investigating by serious economic students imo.

Same goes for banking regulations. Canada has a very strict leash on their banks compared to us after the repeal of Glass-Steagall and their trip through this global recession has been relatively mild compared to US.

Look at Iceland. Arguably the country were the current global problem first reared its ugly head. They nationalized banks and are looking at prosecutions for banking officers or have prosecuted them already.

Now Iceland has pulled back from the brink...

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/iceland/index.html
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
I'm not saying tax cuts are causing a recession. I'm pointing out that if you look at the periods in the last century where there is a relatively high tax rate for the upper margins the recessions that took place during those periods tended to be relatively shorter in comparison to recessions that take place when the tax rates were lower.

I realize that correlation doesn't necessary equate to causation but the correlation is worth investigating by serious economic students imo.

Same goes for banking regulations. Canada has a very strict leash on their banks compared to us after the repeal of Glass-Steagall and their trip through this global recession has been relatively mild compared to US.

Look at Iceland. Arguably the country were the current global problem first reared its ugly head. They nationalized banks and are looking at prosecutions for banking officers or have prosecuted them already.

Now Iceland has pulled back from the brink...

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/iceland/index.html

How about 1937 when the upper tax rate was 79% and good job comparing a $15 Trillion economy with Canada's $1.7
 
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alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,271
323
126
There's usually a recession when a war ends because GDP drops. I think that can partially explain the recessions after Nixon and Bush Sr.

Some of the others were boom-bust cycles that started after Alan Greenspan wrote the current playbook of creating a wealth effect from easy monetary policy and less to do with presidential policy.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
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There's usually a recession when a war ends because GDP drops. I think that can partially explain the recessions after Nixon and Bush Sr.

Some of the others were boom-bust cycles that started after Alan Greenspan wrote the current playbook of creating a wealth effect from easy monetary policy and less to do with presidential policy.

an appropriate necro
This time things appear to be primed to explode which is a good thing.
 
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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
While I'm not a huge fan of the disconnect between the stock market and what's happening in the real world, I'll definitely agree that the overall economy is primed to surge if and when the pandemic recovery arrives in earnest.

Feels like shades of 2008/2009, where a Democrat inherits a shambles of an economy (not entirely due to the Republican predecessor, although they played a role) and can help with its recovery. That's what might get the Democrats two terms — it'll be tough for Republicans in 2024 if the economy is thriving again.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
That's what might get the Democrats two terms — it'll be tough for Republicans in 2024 if the economy is thriving again.
I'm just hoping it's surging enough by the mid-terms to squash any takeback by the R's.

And the repubs are masters at fear & propaganda conquering a good economy.
 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
I'm just hoping it's surging enough by the mid-terms to squash any takeback by the R's.

And the repubs are masters at fear & propaganda conquering a good economy.

Please this, which is why they will try and sabotage the recovery.

They didn't have much chance conning Biden into passing a weak sauce stimulus, so the death cult will refuse vaccines and masks to keep the virus going.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,852
8,314
136
Republicans engineer recessions to stall Dem Presidents.

I think you give them way too much credit but you are entitled to your opinion.

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. - Harlan Ellison
 
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