Republicans losing the public battle on abortion so what do they do? CHEAT!

[esquared]

Sneaky bastards got caught. Measure soundly rejected.

In a win for abortion-rights supporters, Ohio voters reject Issue 1

Ohioans voted down a proposal that would have made it harder to pass future proposed constitutional amendments in the state, including one in November about abortion rights.

www.nbcnews.com

After passing a law earlier to ban August elections, pugs decided to try to make it harder to enshrine abortion rights in the Ohio Constitution, by guess what?
Having an August election to make it harder to enshrine laws in Ohio's condition from a simple majority to a 60% majority.

Douche canoe scumbags doing everything they can to subvert democracy and the will of the voters.

 

[HomerJS]

Sneaky bastards got caught. Measure soundly rejected.

In a win for abortion-rights supporters, Ohio voters reject Issue 1

Ohioans voted down a proposal that would have made it harder to pass future proposed constitutional amendments in the state, including one in November about abortion rights.

www.nbcnews.com

After passing a law earlier to ban August elections, pugs decided to try to make it harder to enshrine abortion rights in the Ohio Constitution, by guess what?
Having an August election to make it harder to enshrine laws in Ohio's condition from a simple majority to a 60% majority.

Douche canoe scumbags doing everything they can to subvert democracy and the will of the voters.

A beatdown for conservatives trying to cheat their way into control. They won't stop until this country turns apartheid.

 

[Zorba]

A beatdown for conservatives trying to cheat their way into control. They won't stop until this country turns apartheid.

Not as big of a beat down as it should've been, only 13% delta right now.

 

[gothuevos]

Not as big of a beat down as it should've been, only 13% delta right now.

I live here and have mixed feelings about this measure.

I do think a constitution should be difficult to amend (national, state, whatever) and should require fairly broad support. I know many here are hyper focused on getting abortion on the ballot but it can go both ways, as a conservative group can get could just as easily a measure of their own on the ballot now, and Ohio liberals (shrinking by the day) may end up regretting the day something like that happens as they will likely not be able to defeat it at the ballot.

All I'm saying is that it's not as straightforward as it seems.

 

[Zorba]

I live here and have mixed feelings about this measure.

I do think a constitution should be difficult to amend (national, state, whatever) and should require fairly broad support. I know many here are hyper focused on getting abortion on the ballot but it can go both ways, as a conservative group can get could just as easily a measure of their own on the ballot now, and Ohio liberals (shrinking by the day) may end up regretting the day something like that happens as they will likely not be able to defeat it at the ballot.

All I'm saying is that it's not as straightforward as it seems.

In gerrymandered states, it is the only way of fighting back against a legislature that has locked themselves in.

 

[Muse]

I live here and have mixed feelings about this measure.

I do think a constitution should be difficult to amend (national, state, whatever) and should require fairly broad support. I know many here are hyper focused on getting abortion on the ballot but it can go both ways, as a conservative group can get could just as easily a measure of their own on the ballot now, and Ohio liberals (shrinking by the day) may end up regretting the day something like that happens as they will likely not be able to defeat it at the ballot.

All I'm saying is that it's not as straightforward as it seems.

Yup. But seeing as this measure was intended to block a measure giving women back their reproductive rights, I figure I should cheer this result.

 

[sportage]

Not as big of a beat down as it should've been, only 13% delta right now.

Don't forget, after all.... this IS Ohio.
Maybe if the republicans would have held this during a tornado? Or during one of those 1000 year floods? Oh I know, during a zombie invasion? Zombies that only eat brains of the pro choicers?
Next time, they will try harder. In fact, I would bet the losing republicans already have a plan B in the works. Some sneaky plan B.

 

[Muse]

Not as big of a beat down as it should've been, only 13% delta right now.

What is the meaning of "delta" in this context? Just the yeah votes percent minus nay votes percent?

NY Times: Initial results showed the measure losing by a roughly 3 to 2 margin.

It's terrible that we are voting on whether to allow women to decide. It's God awful. It's the authoritarian right wing trying to reduce people's power of determining their own destiny. They want everyone to be a slave to their lust for dominance. Make no mistake.

 

[Zorba]

What is the meaning of "delta" in this context? Just the yeah votes percent minus nay votes percent?

NY Times: Initial results showed the measure losing by a roughly 3 to 2 margin.

Yeah, just the margin/difference between the high and low numbers. I use the term delta all the time, but I guess it is technically a term you learn in calculus.

 

[Muse]

Yeah, just the margin/difference between the high and low numbers. I use the term delta all the time, but I guess it is technically a term you learn in calculus.

I was in honors calculus as a freshman at UC Berkeley. I got 100 on the midterm, a perfect score, and an A in the course, naturally. Loved the professor. He went on to become the chairman of the department.

I did a search on delta in various context previous to posting my confusion. Delta/Epsilon is a different matter. We're talking asymptotic convergence.

 

[MtnMan]

Ohio's voters clearly told the knuckle dragging MAGA republicans a great big

FUCK YOU​

 

[Muse]

Ohio's voters clearly told the knuckle dragging MAGA republicans a great big

FUCK YOU​

NY Times...

The heart of the Legislature’s proposal, which it enacted largely along party lines in May, required that amendments to the State Constitution gain approval by 60 percent of voters, up substantially from the current requirement of a simple majority. Republicans initially pitched that as an attempt to keep wealthy special interests from hijacking the amendment process for their own gain.
But from the start, that was overtaken by weightier arguments, led by — but hardly confined to — the abortion debate.

The Ohio Legislature passed some of the nation’s strictest curbs on abortion last year, banning the procedure as early as six weeks into a pregnancy, in the wake of the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade. State courts have yet to rule on the constitutionality of those curbs, but the law’s passage drove a successful grass-roots campaign this year to place an abortion-rights amendment on the November ballot.

That amendment would upend the new law by giving women legal control over reproductive decisions, allowing doctors to make medical judgments on the need for abortions, and allowing the state to regulate abortions only after a fetus is judged viable.
Raising the threshold for adopting an amendment to 60 percent of votes would have put the fate of the proposed amendment in doubt. In two polls, 58 percent and 59 percent of respondents supported granting a constitutional right to abortion access.

 

[Zorba]

I was in honors calculus as a freshman at UC Berkeley. I got 100 on the midterm, a perfect score, and an A in the course, naturally. Loved the professor. He went on to become the chairman of the department.

I did a search on delta in various context previous to posting my confusion. Delta/Epsilon is a different matter. We're talking asymptotic convergence.

Yeah, this is the context I was using it in: https://sciencing.com/calculate-delta-between-two-numbers-5893964.html

I probably say Delta Pressure or Delta Temperature 30 times a day.

 

[MtnMan]

Ohio's amendments that passed with less than 60% approval.

• Home rule power for liquor sales — 50.5% (1914).
• 10-mill limit on unvoted real estate taxes —59.6% (1933).
• Home rule for counties — 53.2% (1933).
• Eliminate straight-ticketing voting — 57.3% (1949).
• Raise the state minimum wage — 56.6% (2006).
• Allow a casino in Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Toledo — 52.9% (2009).
• Deleting the words “white male” from voter qualifications — 55.9% (1923).
• 6-year term for probate judges — 55.2% (1947).
• Create a State Board of Education with the power to appoint a Superintendent of Public Instruction — 56.8% (1953).
• Getting rid of the word “white” when it comes to qualifications of males to serve in the Ohio National Guard, racially integrating the Ohio National Guard — 58.1% (1953).
• 4-year terms for the governor, lieutenant governor, attorney general, and secretary of state. It also limits the governor to two terms — 55.5% (1954).
• 4-year terms for State senators — 57.3% (1956),
• Allow women to serve in the Ohio National Guard and widen the age range to those between 17-67 years old — 50.1% (1961).
• Blocked special interests from using constitutional amendments to create monopolies — 51.5% (2015).

But republicans that can't see past the end of their dick are too stupid to realize this 60% would apply to every future amendment.

Of course, they are probably pissed some of these passed, such as "Deleting the words “white male” from voter qualifications" or "Getting rid of the word “white” when it comes to qualifications of males to serve in the Ohio National Guard, racially integrating the Ohio National Guard" or "Allow women to serve in the Ohio National Guard"

 

[cytg111]

A beatdown for conservatives trying to cheat their way into control. They won't stop until this country turns apartheid.

You have a whole segment of the political spectrum that wants to rule, not represent. Rule. Not represent. Thats fucking crazy.
But all in all it's been a good exercise for everyone on the planet who lives in freedom. Democracy is a delicate engine, must fight to protect it every single day.

 

[senseamp]

Catholic Church spent close to a million bucks trying to attack democracy instead of something usefull like paying victims of their pedophile priests 🤦

Ohio Priest Sex Abuse List: State of Ohio Catholic Diocese – Merson Law PLLC

Ohio Priest Sex Abuse List: Find names of Catholic Priests & Clergy members credibly accused of sexual abuse and/or sexual assault...

mersonlaw.com

 

[Paratus]

Yeah, this is the context I was using it in: https://sciencing.com/calculate-delta-between-two-numbers-5893964.html

I probably say Delta Pressure or Delta Temperature 30 times a day.

We use those and delta V (velocity) as well. It’s such a common phrase in so many STEM fields.

 

[pmv]

I live here and have mixed feelings about this measure.

I do think a constitution should be difficult to amend (national, state, whatever) and should require fairly broad support. I know many here are hyper focused on getting abortion on the ballot but it can go both ways, as a conservative group can get could just as easily a measure of their own on the ballot now, and Ohio liberals (shrinking by the day) may end up regretting the day something like that happens as they will likely not be able to defeat it at the ballot.

All I'm saying is that it's not as straightforward as it seems.

Why should a constitution be difficult to amend? Seems to me that the trouble with the US is that your Constitution is _insanely_ hard to amend. The last significant amendments required nearly a million deaths to bring them about (at a time when the entire population was only about 30 million). It's since become essentially impossible to amend it.

If you make a constitution difficult to amend you are giving supreme authority to whoever had the most power generations ago - rule by a long-dead elite. Necrocracy?

 

[Amused]

Why should a constitution be difficult to amend? Seems to me that the trouble with the US is that your Constitution is _insanely_ hard to amend. The last significant amendments required nearly a million deaths to bring them about (at a time when the entire population was only about 30 million). It's since become essentially impossible to amend it.

If you make a constitution difficult to amend you are giving supreme authority to whoever had the most power generations ago - rule by a long-dead elite. Necrocracy?

I believe the idea was to prevent a simple majority from voting away the rights of minorities.

The age of enlightenment had a dim view of simple majority rule "pure" democracies as they saw simple majority rule as it's own form of tyranny. That's why we're a constitutional republic with democratically elected representation.

 

[HomerJS]

I believe the idea was to prevent a simple majority from voting away the rights of minorities.

The age of enlightenment had a dim view of simple majority rule "pure" democracies as they saw simple majority rule as it's own form of tyranny. That's why we're a constitutional republic with democratically elected representation.

If that is true, then why have they had majority referendums on the books since the 1920s? They also outlawed August special elections which they also changed just for this vote.

Do you really think Republicans were just trying to save the idea of a representative Republic??

 

[pmv]

I believe the idea was to prevent a simple majority from voting away the rights of minorities.

The age of enlightenment had a dim view of simple majority rule "pure" democracies as they saw simple majority rule as it's own form of tyranny. That's why we're a constitutional republic with democratically elected representation.

Yeah, I don't know the history of all that. Don't know enough about history to really say, but it seems odd to me that they'd be so concerned with the rights of minorities at the same time they happily accepted the institution of slavery and restricted the vote to property-owning white males. I can't help but wonder if the "minority" whose rights they were concerned with was the minority that is "the white bourgeoisie".

 

[Amused]

Yeah, I don't know the history of all that. Don't know enough about history to really say, but it seems odd to me that they'd be so concerned with the rights of minorities at the same time they happily accepted the institution of slavery and restricted the vote to property-owning white males. I can't help but wonder if the "minority" whose rights they were concerned with was the minority that is "the white bourgeoisie".

Not racial minorities. Minority opinions/beliefs/religious sects.

The primary concern was that a simple majority of states could subvert the freedoms and rights of a minority of states. No doubt tied to the issue of slavery.

You can read the reasons why here.

Article V: Historical Background

www.law.cornell.edu

Article Five of the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm not arguing in favor of this, nor in favor of this for state constitutions. Only showing WHY the 2/3 rule was made for the federal constitution.
James Madison (writing in The Federalist No. 43):
It guards equally against that extreme facility which would render the Constitution too mutable; and that extreme difficulty which might perpetuate its discovered faults. It moreover equally enables the General and the State Governments to originate the amendment of errors, as they may be pointed out by the experience on one side, or on the other.

 

[dainthomas]

I live here and have mixed feelings about this measure.

I do think a constitution should be difficult to amend (national, state, whatever) and should require fairly broad support. I know many here are hyper focused on getting abortion on the ballot but it can go both ways, as a conservative group can get could just as easily a measure of their own on the ballot now, and Ohio liberals (shrinking by the day) may end up regretting the day something like that happens as they will likely not be able to defeat it at the ballot.

All I'm saying is that it's not as straightforward as it seems.

This would be a concern if nearly every conservative policy wasn't wildly unpopular. Literally the only reason they're even relevant nationally is the electoral college and voter suppression/gerrymandering.

If something does occasionally sneak through, I think it's still worth it. It avoids the Christian theocracy that would result from an unchecked Republican minority empowered by an illegally gerrymandered state legislature.

 

[sportage]

It's really NOT about abortion (don't these republican states realize this???). It is all about the government getting into a woman's business. I'm really surprised that even THE CULT can not grasp this. This is why they will lose, they will always lose in every state because women do not want government interfering with their personal life. It is plain as plain can be. It's democrat women, republican women, independent women, and add no affiliation women in there too. It's pro-life women, its pro-choice women, its tall women and short women and white women, Black women, Hispanic women, old women, young women, Japanese women.

Put this on a ballot in any state and it will lose.
iOwa needs to put this on their ballot because red governor Kim Reynolds has been batshit crazy imposing her fundamentalist beliefs. Twice now she has signed her heart-beat law into effect and both times the court put a stop to it. But a simple ballot initiative would pretty much take care of the issue once and for all, and put an end to Reynolds insistence to screw with women's rights. All while the red governor refuses covid relief, daycare assistance, and food assistance to low income women in the state. Forcing babies to be born into poverty, then denying them babies food, housing, and daycare. Now thats what I call one screwed up governor.

 

[hal2kilo]

I live here and have mixed feelings about this measure.

I do think a constitution should be difficult to amend (national, state, whatever) and should require fairly broad support. I know many here are hyper focused on getting abortion on the ballot but it can go both ways, as a conservative group can get could just as easily a measure of their own on the ballot now, and Ohio liberals (shrinking by the day) may end up regretting the day something like that happens as they will likely not be able to defeat it at the ballot.

All I'm saying is that it's not as straightforward as it seems.

You and Smercomish need to get a room.