Republicans need to embrace the future.

[tec699]

In my opinion it seems that Republicans are stuck in the past and I'm just going to name a couple of examples.

1. Gay Marriages

-Most Republicans disapprove of gay marriages. News flash guys: Gay people aren't going to hide in the closet any longer. This isn't 1950 anymore so why shouldn't they be able to get married and live like any other American citizen?


2. Immigration

-If given the chance most Republicans would rather close the Mexican border then let these people enter America. Who founded America? Immigrants! Europeans don't come to America like they did in the past. The makeup of immigrants now consists of Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Haitians and other non-white people. These people are usually poor so this goes against middle class values. In most cases the poor always feel the wrath from the Republicans. This party will always cut services for the poor unlike Democrats.

3. Language

-Sorry guys but Americans especially on the east and west coast should learn to speak Spanish. IT SHOULD BE A MUST! The Latino population in America is growing at an extremely high rate. Take a look at the current population figures and the expected population figures for the future. It really is amazing. In the past Immigrants assimilated into American culture but not anymore. Now we really are a multicultural society and we need to act like one.


Well those are just 3 examples of why I feel Republicans are stuck in the past. Yea... a very simplistic viewpoint but I feel that I got my point across.

You can live in the past guys but I'd rather move forward. America is rapidly changing for the better. You can accept these changes or you can get left behind. Whether you like it or not these and many other changes are going to take place in American society.

 

[Red Dawn]

I'm not a Republican and I say BS to points 2 and 3

 

[tec699]

Red..

I know that I'm going to get blasted over points 2 and 3 but you haven't noticed the changes that have taken place in America? Go to a city that is heavily populated with Latinos and you'll notice signs that are written in both Spanish and English. So this tells me that the makeup of Latinos is extremely high in that particular city. This isn't just about one city but about America at large. The Spanish population is growing at such an alarming rate and in the near future are going to be branching out from the inner cities to white only communities. It's inevitable and Caucasians are worries about this issue. So why worry about it and learn about the Spanish culture. If someone from Mexico can't speak English then you should be able to hold a conversation with this person in Spanish. Why is this such a big deal with most people?

Also, my father is a contractor for the state of Southern NJ and one of his jobs is to deliver the voting machines to his surrounding districts. The voting machines are now written in both Spanish and English.

 

[Red Dawn]

I'm not going to debate you over them because they have been debated to death here. I'm just pointing out that it isn't just Republicans who are against making Spanish mandatory and allowing immigrants to come here Carte Blanch.

 

[NightCrawler]

Speak english it's AMERICA...go back to YOUR homeland if you want to speak a foreign language.

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: NightCrawler
Speak english it's AMERICA...go back to YOUR homeland if you want to speak a foreign language.

One problem. American society is now multicultural, and I think you guys fail to see this. The reason I say that we should embrace Spanish and not Chinese is that the Latinos make up the majority of immigrants. Other immigrants pale in size when compared to the Latino population.

 

[chess9]

Actually, on point 3 I would say that all students, from elementary school forward, should be required to learn one foreign language. The earlier it is taught the better. Spanish is an obvious asset, but Latin (admittedly dead), Greek, Japanese, Chinese, French, German, Arabic, and Russian are also good choices. How do you really get a feel for the differences in the world when you only speak one language?

On point 2 I would support a middle of the road approach. I believe McCain has a proposed immigration bill that takes a go slow, but humane, approach.

Point 1 is so obviously true it doesn't need further discussion.

-Robert

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

out here in southern california almost everyone learns spanish as a second language in school. It really is a must these days. But honestly, we are in America so SPEAK ENGLISH.

 

[PingSpike]

Most people in Europe speak english at least passably in addition to their native tongue...English has in many places become the defacto common language. We already speak it so we are not encouraged to learn another one. Frankly, I agree with the others...this is America, we speak English here. When in Rome...

And learning spanish would be useless to me. French might actually come in handy because I run into a hell of a lot more French Canadians than I do Latinos up in frosty Vermont.

Point 1, obviously...full acceptance will likely come within the next generation.

I don't know much about immigration...My gut reaction is to keep the borders tighter, especially considering all the terrorism problems we've had lately.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: NightCrawler
Speak english it's AMERICA...go back to YOUR homeland if you want to speak a foreign language.

One problem. American society is now multicultural, and I think you guys fail to see this. The reason I say that we should embrace Spanish and not Chinese is that the Latinos make up the majority of immigrants. Other immigrants pale in size when compared to the Latino population.

We dont' fail to see it, what we fail to accept is that a divided language structure in this country will somehow make it a better place. One of America's greatest strengths is that even with our heavy immigration we always required people learn the same language (which happens to be english). In time this tears down cultural barriers and integrates society, a multi-lingual requirement would destroy that. English is the language of the world and all immigrants to this country should be required to learn it and use it, without exception.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
Point 1, obviously...full acceptance will likely come within the next generation.

I don't know if I would necessarily say "acceptance" possibly forced tolerance but definately not overall acceptance...points two and three are plain silly.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: PingSpike
Point 1, obviously...full acceptance will likely come within the next generation.

I don't know if I would necessarily say "acceptance" possibly forced tolerance but definately not overall acceptance...points two and three are plain silly.

In retrospect, full acceptance is to strong of a word...you are right. I wouldn't say 'forced' tolerance though.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
In retrospect, full acceptance is to strong of a word...you are right. I wouldn't say 'forced' tolerance though.

How else would you describe it? the legal system is forcing the will of the minority on the majority, the majority is currently being forced to accept it...over time these laws will solidify and future generations will be forced to adhere, people will grow tired of fighting it as it doesn't directly effect most and in time they will just accept it...I think forced tolerance is more than fitting.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Actually today's youth is completely tolerable of gays, when you look at the majority of teens/college students. It's the previous generation that is having trouble with accepting gay marriages. It's not forced tolerance either, it's realizing that we are all human beings and that being "gay" is not something that anyone can help. It's you ignorant generations from the past that are causing so much trouble, once you are all dead America and the rest of the world will be a much more peaceful place.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Actually today's youth is completely tolerable of gays, when you look at the majority of teens/college students. It's the previous generation that is having trouble with accepting gay marriages. It's not forced tolerance either, it's realizing that we are all human beings and that being "gay" is not something that anyone can help. It's you ignorant generations from the past that are causing so much trouble, once you are all dead America and the rest of the world will be a much more peaceful place.

Thats sort of what I was getting at bozack. Once the majority of people don't care/accept them, and the people who make a big deal out of it become a minority...the minority will be forced to shut up and be tolerant. Some will be forced yes, but the majority would actually have to accept them for that to actually happen.

Time breeds change.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: tec699



2. Immigration

-If given the chance most Republicans would rather close the Mexican border then let these people enter America. Who founded America? Immigrants! Europeans don't come to America like they did in the past. The makeup of immigrants now consists of Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Haitians and other non-white people. These people are usually poor so this goes against middle class values. In most cases the poor always feel the wrath from the Republicans. This party will always cut services for the poor unlike Democrats.

You can't deny there is aproblem with illegal immigration. If we are not going to enforce immigration laws, why enforce any laws for that matter. Believe me, I lived in a third world country for 9 years. We keep absorbing illegal immigrants and you will know what I mean when I say it wasn't pleasant.

EDIT: on #3, my grandparents were immigrants. THey did not speak a word of English when they came to this country in the 1930's. They took it upon themselves to learn a new lanquage. They wanted to be a part of America. So they learned to speak english. When they were alive they spoke perfect english but still maintained the ability to speak thier native German and did not lose out on any of thier culture.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: PingSpike
In retrospect, full acceptance is to strong of a word...you are right. I wouldn't say 'forced' tolerance though.

How else would you describe it? the legal system is forcing the will of the minority on the majority, the majority is currently being forced to accept it...over time these laws will solidify and future generations will be forced to adhere, people will grow tired of fighting it as it doesn't directly effect most and in time they will just accept it...I think forced tolerance is more than fitting.

I see you persist in your delusions. You need to move to a totalitarian state where minorities have no protection. You will be happier. Our system of government is designed to protect the rights of the minority from the tyranny of the majority and you always wind up turning that on its head. Good grief man.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Actually today's youth is completely tolerable of gays, when you look at the majority of teens/college students. It's the previous generation that is having trouble with accepting gay marriages. It's not forced tolerance either, it's realizing that we are all human beings and that being "gay" is not something that anyone can help. It's you ignorant generations from the past that are causing so much trouble, once you are all dead America and the rest of the world will be a much more peaceful place.

Bozack is part of your generation Knucklehead LOL And once my generation is dead all that will be left will be a bunch of Soft Pudgy Wankers who feel they are entitled..people like Bozack and a few other excluded!

 

[NesuD]

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: NightCrawler
Speak english it's AMERICA...go back to YOUR homeland if you want to speak a foreign language.

One problem. American society is now multicultural, and I think you guys fail to see this. The reason I say that we should embrace Spanish and not Chinese is that the Latinos make up the majority of immigrants. Other immigrants pale in size when compared to the Latino population.

You seem to be forgetting that America has always been multicultural And has always been made up up Immigrants who's native languages never became a requirement. Immigrants have always learned english to help them assimilate into american culture. I think it is pretty arrogant of you to think that now we should all learn spanish.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Actually today's youth is completely tolerable of gays, when you look at the majority of teens/college students. It's the previous generation that is having trouble with accepting gay marriages. It's not forced tolerance either, it's realizing that we are all human beings and that being "gay" is not something that anyone can help. It's you ignorant generations from the past that are causing so much trouble, once you are all dead America and the rest of the world will be a much more peaceful place.

Sorry, don't know what planet you are from but if anything of all the younger people with whom I converse it seems as if people are getting more polarized rather than accepting due to all of the controversy that is being brought about by the legal system, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a major "resistance" that comes about in the next decade against the whims of the minority, however as I said before the legal will stand fast and nothing will change, people will be forced into toleration whether they like it or not by the self ritcheous such as Moonie.

Originally posted by: PingSpike
Thats sort of what I was getting at bozack. Once the majority of people don't care/accept them, and the people who make a big deal out of it become a minority...the minority will be forced to shut up and be tolerant. Some will be forced yes, but the majority would actually have to accept them for that to actually happen.

Time breeds change.

I think it is pretty harsh to say that eventually the majority "won't care", everyone will always have a stand on the topic as it is human nature to have a personal belief and hold fast to that belief, the question is whether or not those who oppose homosexual marriage will in fact become the minority, or if the numbers will in fact grow, personally with the influx of latin americans into the US and the strong religious beliefs that these people have if anything I see more and more people who will not agree with homosexuality in the future, already the majority of "minorities" are not at all in favor of homosexual relations and or their acknowledgement by the govt, if the minority number grow and homosexual issues take a prominant role in the media I can only see more speaking out against acceptance...

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I see you persist in your delusions. You need to move to a totalitarian state where minorities have no protection. You will be happier. Our system of government is designed to protect the rights of the minority from the tyranny of the majority and you always wind up turning that on its head. Good grief man.

How is this delusional Moonie? I know you lib whackos just want us all to stand down and accept everything you guys say as the only way, the "non bigoted way" but when it comes down to it people are currently being forced into acceptance, this was not brought about by the people but rather by an elite minority that wanted to push their agenda, maybe if the people really wanted this it wouldn't be as much of an issue? and since when was our govt created to benefit the minority? I was always under the impression it was "by the people, for the people" not "by the minority, for the minority"...

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Bozack is part of your generation Knucklehead LOL And once my gegration is dead all that will be left will be a bunch of Soft Pudgy Wankers who feel they are entitled..people like Bozack and a few other excluded!

Thanks Red I think, and yes tis sad the nation is becomming a bunch of pussified take whatever you are spoonfed and deal with it and never do anything to be labeled a "bigot" or that is not P, but then again people like Moonie love that type of mentality as long as it coincides with his views.

 

[SViscusi]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Actually today's youth is completely tolerable of gays, when you look at the majority of teens/college students. It's the previous generation that is having trouble with accepting gay marriages. It's not forced tolerance either, it's realizing that we are all human beings and that being "gay" is not something that anyone can help. It's you ignorant generations from the past that are causing so much trouble, once you are all dead America and the rest of the world will be a much more peaceful place.

Sorry, don't know what planet you are from but if anything of all the younger people with whom I converse it seems as if people are getting more polarized rather than accepting due to all of the controversy that is being brought about by the legal system, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a major "resistance" that comes about in the next decade against the whims of the minority, however as I said before the legal will stand fast and nothing will change, people will be forced into toleration whether they like it or not by the self ritcheous such as Moonie.

Maybe the people you talk to aren't the best representation of the rest of us.

CBS News Poll. May 20-23, 2004. Nationwide:

.

"Which comes closest to your view? Gay couples should be allowed to legally marry. OR, Gay couples should be allowed to form civil unions but not legally marry. OR There should be no legal recognition of a gay couple's relationship." N=1,113 adults, MoE ± 3 (for all adults)

.


Marriage Civil Unions No Legal Recognition
% % %
ALL 28 29 40
Republicans 13 33 53
Democrats 32 28 36
Independents 37 27 33
18-29 years 43 32 25
30-44 29 25 44
45-64 26 29 41
65 & older 12 32 51

This trend is only going to continue.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

I guess I should have rephrased my answer: I live in Southern California. you guys most likely do not live in such an accepting part of America, which is unfortunate.

 

[dannybin1742]

i agree with chess9, children in elementary school should learn a language of their choice, not spanish.

i also do not agree with point 3, if you come ot the US speak english or learn. i'm a democrat, but there are some things i just don't agree with.

first of all instead of shutting off the boarder, let the immigrants in, give them citicenship so that they can pay taxes and support social security, as it is now they are a burden to our system if they are not citizens because they come here, get hurt and show up a hospital that WILL treat them. at least if they pay taxes and social secirity they are contributing to society (as immigrants none of this is payed if they work for cash illegally)

on point 3:
"Latino population in America is growing at an extremely high rate"

you have to look at their catholic macho culture, they don't practice birth control, alot in general don't value education because of the laguage barrier. I'm not trying to be racist or anything but from being in two large high schools one in michigan and one near san diego, the whole tough guy gang attitude is really retarded and causes lots of social problems with other students, and you don't just see it in california, you see it in michigan too, i just don't understand it, nto to mension there are alot of pregnant high school latino kids i've seen. its sad

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: SViscusi
Maybe the people you talk to aren't the best representation of the rest of us.

This trend is only going to continue.

Possibly, but then again maybe that poll isn't the most accurate representation of the country? again look at the percentages of minorities and how they feel on the subject, as someone above said the latin american population is growing and rapidly, they along with the black populations are strongly against homosexual marriage...could be interesting when they become the majority.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: SViscusi
Maybe the people you talk to aren't the best representation of the rest of us.

This trend is only going to continue.

Possibly, but then again maybe that poll isn't the most accurate representation of the country? again look at the percentages of minorities and how they feel on the subject, as someone above said the latin american population is growing and rapidly, they along with the black populations are strongly against homosexual marriage...could be interesting when they become the majority.

Here in Mass where it is legal the majority aren't in favor of it (I think at best it's 50/50)