Republicans Supporting Arming 4 Year Olds

[Blackjack200]

Sorry, that's largely bullshit.

It’s absurd. There are people that live off the land, they do this by farming.

 

[Perknose]

It’s absurd. There are people that live off the land, they do this by farming.

There are few family farms left. Mostly, it's big commercial farms. Even the families who farm don't exactly live off what they farm in any pristine, bucolic, self-reliant sense.

To make a go, they plant one, maybe two crops and sell them to middlemen. Then, they take the money they earn and buy what they need and usually, what they eat, the same way the rest of us do.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Sorry, that's largely bullshit. I'm not disputing that people hunt for food some (yes, that is common), but it absolutely is not even remotely close to being a significant source of food even in really rural areas. I fucking grew up in areas like that (I grew up on a farm, and we didn't even get most of our food from it although we did get milk, some eggs, and produce that way; that town had maybe 200 people and the next closest town half an hour away wasn't much more populated and had a "grocery store" that was smaller than a 7-11 - so about 1-2 times a month a trip to a town an hour away that had actual grocery stores was made and lots of canned food and the like was bought; I then grew up in a Midwest town of a few thousand with lots of agriculture and I didn't know of anyone that got more than maybe 10% of their food from hunting, and even then most of it was from people selling the deer meat to the butcher, not doing all of the hunting themselves). I'm sure there are areas where it does make a bigger portion, but that's because those people have mental health issues, are paranoid of the government and either refuse to use public assistance programs, or live in states that intentionally fuck them over due to their Republican ideological bullshit. And even then, churches and other organizations in those regions supply them with a hell of a lot more food than apparently some of you people realize.

I have no problem with people in rural areas saying that guns are still important because of wild animals and hunting, but pushing yet another fucking horseshit claim that its nearly life or death for so many I will not put up with because its a shit argument that doesn't hold true. The only people getting a significant portion of their food from hunting are wealthy people that choose to live that way (and even then, most of the food they consume they very probably did not themselves do the hunting).

That you hear about people in apparently such dire nutritional situation and your response is "they need guns!" and not, "wait, we have programs specifically to help people get food, someone show them how to get on those" or "we need to make sure that they get a proper amount of food" is absurd. That is also yet another reason why I support us completely overhauling our health care system, as malnutrition is a serious problem that affects many Americans (and is a health issue), but its for factors that make no fucking sense in a modern world. We have the resources to make it a non-issue (here for sure). Its goddamned ridiculous that this is something people feel is a legitimate argument.

Now maybe you aren't actually making all those claims, but like I said, I'm sick of this argument, especially when those same people that see often make it are the ones trying to keep people from being able to get food assistance and other necessities (not saying you are, just that its very common). I guess my point being, that argument is hyperbolic and largely doesn't hold up, and doubly irritates me because its often touted by people opposed to social initiatives that addresses the problem much better.

Jesus, I'm upset that I have to retype this several times.

I'm not saying that there are entire swathes of the US population that exist by subsisting off roaming hoards of wild animals which are hunted for food. I'm stating that there are a few, very isolated populations of US citizens so poor that they utilize hunting to bolster protein and fat intakes in order to remain healthy, of which there are few governmental resource available to replace said hunting. Like most people, if their resources were diverted to buying 'normal people meat' (aka cow, chicken, fish), they'd have to pull that money from somewhere else, whether it be fuel, insurance, vegetables, taxes, whatever. That's all. They exist, they are few, and because they permit, or train their children to utilize weapons to assist in this endeavor, and that does not make them bad people.

 

[yllus]

apparently you can make it up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9LjwRRO9fk

You'll note that nowhere in that clip does Joe Walsh claim to not have said that 4-year-olds should be armed. He says that he was lied to as to who the people who asked him to make that statement were. I don't see how that leads to making an emotional plea to get 4-year-olds armed and ready to kill.

I don't know about you, but if, say, the Queen of England (technically my Queen as well) asked me to read a statement into a camera advocating 4-year-olds be armed and ready to shoot, I would politely decline.

 

[compuwiz1]

Dumbest Idea ever. I don't know anyone who would be ok with arming toddlers...nobody. If any of this is true, those persons need to be held out for a public flogging!

 

[Perknose]

Dumbest Idea ever. I don't know anyone who would be ok with arming toddlers...nobody. If any of this is true, those persons need to be held out for a public flogging!

If there's a public flogging, I want the popcorn and lawn chair concessions!

But, reallly, here in the "no more public floggings" real world, just vote against them, and the party of crazed weasels they belong to.

The Republican party, as presently constituted and led, bears no resemblance to the party both of my parents were life long members of. Hell, as a teen, I identified as a Republican . . . but that was back when they still had a robust liberal wing, as exemplified by Governor William Scranton of my home state of Pennsylvania.

The barbarians are not just at the gate, in Congress, they are the gatekeepers. Trump is no accident. He is the culmination of this insane rightward yahoo drift.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Open carry . . . or a Roy Rogers lunch box with that all important safety latch?

Remington pump action 12 gauge paper bag with "00" peanut butter and jelly slugs.

 

[Perknose]

Remington pump action 12 gauge paper bag with "00" peanut butter and jelly slugs.

Ahhhh, the legendary "playground sweeper!" Excellent choice!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It’s absurd. There are people that live off the land, they do this by farming.

Wrong. People still hunt for food. Certainly not in your neck of the woods but get away from the cities and suburbs and people hunt and not just to kill. This is seperate from arming 4 year olds or any self defense nonsense.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Ahhhh, the legendary "playground sweeper!" Excellent choice!

I think part of the problem we're having about this whole gun argument is that nutjobs may argue for ridiculous things like a 5 year old having a weapon for self defense and then the opposite extreme of "people don't hunt for food" comments come in. The truth (non-alternative version) is that both are facts easily reconcilable but that's not important to some. Stake a claim and hold fast regardless of reality.

Anyway, you may remember me relating a story about my grandfather from Arkansas who took me to his old homestead which had grown wild over decades of disuse. We found a place and he drilled me with "the talk", that is gun safety and made sure I didn't just repeat the words but understood and followed them. Only then did he let me use his single shot .22 (a kids model). It had a cocking piece for the firing pin so no "Uzzi" for the unfamiliar. He watched me like a hawk for an hour and I don't think I got a dozen shots off in that time because it wasn't about shooting but learning to shoot which is far more than pulling a trigger. For the poor it was and is a means of putting food on the table in parts of the nation so knowing when and when not to even think about taking game is vital, granted not as much today.

My grandfather would have bitchslapped some of these pro gun types BTW because it's not safe to give kids guns at the age I was trained. I was more closely supervised than a green boot camp Marine.

 

[Perknose]

My grandfather would have bitchslapped some of these pro gun types BTW because it's not safe to give kids guns at the age I was trained. I was more closely supervised than a green boot camp Marine.

^^^ This.

I think part of the problem we're having about this whole gun argument is that nutjobs may argue for ridiculous things like a 5 year old having a weapon for self defense and then the opposite extreme of "people don't hunt for food" comments come in.

^^^ Because THIS is tantamount to a false equivalence.

 

[dank69]

I think part of the problem we're having about this whole gun argument is that nutjobs may argue for ridiculous things like a 5 year old having a weapon for self defense and then the opposite extreme of "people don't hunt for food" comments come in. The truth (non-alternative version) is that both are facts easily reconcilable but that's not important to some. Stake a claim and hold fast regardless of reality.

Anyway, you may remember me relating a story about my grandfather from Arkansas who took me to his old homestead which had grown wild over decades of disuse. We found a place and he drilled me with "the talk", that is gun safety and made sure I didn't just repeat the words but understood and followed them. Only then did he let me use his single shot .22 (a kids model). It had a cocking piece for the firing pin so no "Uzzi" for the unfamiliar. He watched me like a hawk for an hour and I don't think I got a dozen shots off in that time because it wasn't about shooting but learning to shoot which is far more than pulling a trigger. For the poor it was and is a means of putting food on the table in parts of the nation so knowing when and when not to even think about taking game is vital, granted not as much today.

My grandfather would have bitchslapped some of these pro gun types BTW because it's not safe to give kids guns at the age I was trained. I was more closely supervised than a green boot camp Marine.

I think the people are taking issue with "people hunt for food to survive," not "people hunt for food." I highly doubt there are many people in the US who would starve if they couldn't hunt for food. Maybe a few nutjob preppers that are living off the grid, but even that is a choice.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

^^^ Because THIS is tantamount to a false equivalence.

Not sure what you are getting at. Of course they aren't equivalent but the reality of things makes them both true. For clarity, I'm talking about what often happens in discussions where someone cites an untruth in response to an absurdity, and some subjects are more prone to this than others. Guns are one of those and people often do not understand what happens outside their own little world. There's no mitigation, just clarification.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I think the people are taking issue with "people hunt for food to survive," not "people hunt for food." I highly doubt there are many people in the US who would starve if they couldn't hunt for food. Maybe a few nutjob preppers that are living off the grid, but even that is a choice.

I was responding in particular to this:

It’s absurd. There are people that live off the land, they do this by farming.

People do farm and hunt for food. Now whether there are options is another matter separate from what I was addressing. Arming 4-year-olds? No. That's beyond foolish and there's no circumstance I can imagine where I'd endorse it.

 

[dank69]

I was responding in particular to this:



People do farm and hunt for food. Now whether there are options is another matter separate from what I was addressing. Arming 4-year-olds? No. That's beyond foolish and there's no circumstance I can imagine where I'd endorse it.

I know, but in context he was responding to someone that was pushing the idea that there are people in this country who hunt to survive.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I know, but in context he was responding to someone that was pushing the idea that there are people in this country who hunt to survive.

Fair enough, although if you get into Applacia there's some of that. Not very common, granted.

 

[Perknose]

For clarity, I'm talking about what often happens in discussions where someone cites an untruth in response to an absurdity [...] There's no mitigation, just clarification.

Ok.

To expand on the "people do/do not hunt for food" contention, yes, there really are isolated rural communities (think: West Viriginia in the hollers) where, while folks wouldn't necessarily starve if they didn't hunt, the venison and small game they harvest do contribute mightily to their diets.

For a sense of scale, though, I would argue (without facts, it's fun!) that each day, perhaps, there are more black folk being treated discriminatory by the police in random encounters than there are, each day, folks taking their aged 22 long guns out hunting rabbits and possums out of stark nutritional necessity.

Just opining here, Rich!

It is generally instructive to see what each poster considers important in response to a topic.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Ok.

To expand on the "people do/do not hunt for food" contention, yes, there really are isolated rural communities (think: West Viriginia in the hollers) where, while folks wouldn't necessarily starve if they didn't hunt, the venison and small game they harvest do contribute mightily to their diets.

For a sense of scale, though, I would argue (without facts, it's fun!) that each day, perhaps, there are more black folk being treated discriminatory by the police in random encounters than there are, each day, folks taking their aged 22 long guns out hunting rabbits and possums out of stark nutritional necessity.

Just opining here, Rich!

It is generally instructive to see what each poster considers important in response to a topic.

Well now I'd not argue about that but you wouldn't be responding to what someone in this thread said. Trump and Putin certainly don't care about people hunting for food, four-year-olds armed, nor police brutality. Thing is that no one mentioned them to respond to. Just my humble opinion though.

I did notice you didn't ask what I had in my thermos...

 

[Perknose]

I did notice you didn't ask what I had in my thermos...

Omg! A thermos-nuclear response!

 

[Blackjack200]

Wrong. People still hunt for food. Certainly not in your neck of the woods but get away from the cities and suburbs and people hunt and not just to kill. This is seperate from arming 4 year olds or any self defense nonsense.

Occasionally hunting for food is not living off the land any more than having a vegetable garden is, and in the context of this conversation it's clear what the distinction is, and the point I was making. The difference between farming and hunting is that unlike hunters, there are farmers who produce nearly all of what they eat. My own brother worked on multiple such farms as a WWOOFer . (http://wwoof.net/) I wouldn't claim that they're doing it to survive, in each case the owners had enough resources to survive if the farm didn't produce, but the distinction still remains.