Request for guidance on laptop heating issues

[xgsound]

Here is a general video for replacing thermal paste and clearing fan area. Sometimes the fan area can have several mm of lint built up at the cooling fins. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1IpBZJkz1I

Find a youtube video or other source for your exact laptop model for better disassembly instructions and replay it until you're comfortable.
It's really not very hard for most models.

Jim

 

[Puffnstuff]

I replaced the factory paste on my alienware with arctic silver two years ago but I still have to keep a laptop cooling pad underneath it when I use it or it will overheat on me.

 

[addverma]

So today I finally got around to replacing the paste on my Laptop. First spent a significant amount of time going over videos on YouTube as well as documentation on the Artic Silver website. Cleaned up the heat sink and the CPU. Kept two items in mind
1) Did not touch the surface of the heat sink as well as the CPU top after I had cleaned them using iso-propyl alcohol.
2) Used a rice grain sized Artic Silver 5 thermal paste on the CPU metal top.
Further the GPU had a thermal pad. That I did not touch apart from just cleaning any debri using a lint free cloth.

After applying the paste, on the top of CPU, I spread it around into a very thin layer using a Gillette blade. Did not touch the paste with my bare hands or anything which was not clean. This was in variance to what I saw on YouTube or what I read, where most of the people did not spread the Thermal paste around and just put the Heat Sink on top of the CPU after putting thermal paste on top of CPU.

Now according to the documentation it will take about 200 hours or about a month of average usage for the paste to break. Right now I am seeing temperatures cross 60 degrees centigrade, at which point the CPU gets throttled. So will have to wait for about 200 hours. Will update this post with a few pictures soon.

Please let me know what you think?
----------------------------
Enjoy your day.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Arctic Silver "break in" is largely a myth. If you didn't see an immediate improvement, then either you used too much paste, or that wasn't the problem.

Edit: Investigate using the program "ThrottleStop" to stop the thermal throttling, at least until it hits something like 80C core temps.

 

[addverma]

Well it appears i cannot upload pictures from drop box to this forum.

VirtualLarry, to answer your question, I am still observing CPU throttling once the temperature crosses 60 degrees centigrade.

According to the documentation of Arctic Silver 5, http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth/int/ss/intel_app_method_surface_spread_v1.1.pdf, page number 7

Break-in period: 200 hours (Break-in period will occur during normal use.) Temps will drop several degrees over the break-in period measured with a thermal diode in the hottest part of the CPU core.

Can you please elaborate on why you said that "break in" is largely a myth?

 

[VirtualLarry]

VirtualLarry, to answer your question, I am still observing CPU throttling once the temperature crosses 60 degrees centigrade.

So try out the software "ThrottleStop", to change that behavior.

Can you please elaborate on why you said that "break in" is largely a myth?

I used AS5 on my desktop Core2Quad rigs, and I constantly monitored temps, and I never saw any sort of notable reduction in temps after some time, after my initial AS5 install.

 

[addverma]

I did some reading on ThrottleStop. Part of it has generated concern regarding the impact on the CPU and the possibility of permanent damage. It does not look like a safe option.

Also the documentation of AS5 said that

break-in will occur during the normal use of the computer as long as the computer is turned off from time to time and the interface is allowed to cool.

Also can you please let me know how you applied the thermal paste? Was it spread on top of the entire CPU top like it has been asked for in the AS5 documentation page 6? Or was it just put on top of the CPU in either a dot or line and then Heat sink was put on its top? Please note that I am not trying to question the efficacy of your methods, it is just that if my method of application does not work then I would like to try some other method of Thermal paste application and would like to know what worked and did not work. Again to reiterate I am not questioning what you did and why it did not work.

Please note the AS5 documentation had suggested that the Thermal paste be applied on the Heat sink too, which I did not do. This was because none of the Videos and documentation that I read had not done this specifically, i.e. apply the Thermal paste on the CPU as well as Heat Sink too. Hence did not want to do this.

 

[Ketchup]

Your CPU does not start to throttle until about 80 C, and the max temp is 100. So, as I said in my previous post, I am not sure what issues you are seeing (considering its age, I assume slowness), but for a core 2 laptop, your temps are very reasonable.

http://ark.intel.com/m/products/307...-1_66-GHz-667-MHz-FSB#@product/specifications
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_2/Intel-Core 2 Duo Mobile T5450 LF80537GF0282MT.html

 

[addverma]

I ran CoreTemp 1.0 in Logging mode before I replaced the Thermal paste. In that mode I capture the temperature and the CPU Frequency for each core. Each time the temperature of the CPU's crosses 60 degrees centigrade I can see the core speed in Mhz drop from 1661.47 to 996.88. Once that happens the Laptop starts to become sluggish significantly. I am going to run Core Temp again and capture the result and update the same. That is the reason why I think that it is the temperature which is the culprit.

But if you think that there is some other aspect that needs to be looked at, and if you can point me in the direction of the same, it would be appreciated.

 

[Ketchup]

Get CPUID HW Monitor and see what each core is getting to at full load. What are you using to get you CPU under load? Core Temp may not be getting you accurate numbers.

Also, Dells have always strived for quiet over cool, thinking that the consumer would not be running the CPU at full tilt. And at the time this laptop was manufactured, that was very often the case. But currently Flash, HTML5, and even Java will bring a Core 2 Duo to its knees. I have a couple and have seen this first hand, especially without a dedicated video card.

 

[addverma]

Allright will get CPUID HW Monitor today in the evening and use that to log the temperature and CPU. Till now I was using CoreTemp and SpeedFan. SpeedFan always flags anything above 50 degrees Centigrade as burning. Moreover I have not been able to get SpeedFan to log the temperature along with the CPU Frequency like CoreTemp does. Let me evaluate CPUID HW Monitor and see the result. Will keep you guys updated with the result.

 

[Ketchup]

The "burning" temp of speedfan is adjustable. I don't believe they have changed the default number since the original Athlon days, when 50 was actually something one might be concerned about (at least, I remember it being somewhere around that number).

 

[addverma]

Have been using HW Monitor since yesterday. Have again observed that the CPU gets throttled, once temperature crosses 60 degrees. The maximum value of my CPU is 1667 Mhz which gets throttled to 998-960 Mhz for both the cores. I have even seen speed upto 810 Mhz. Once the temperature peaks at 60 degrees centigrade, the CPU throttles. Then the CPU temperature falls to 47 degree centigrade but the CPU speed for both the cores as reported in HW Monitor still operate only at 888-996 Mhz. So even if the temperature falls then also the CPU throttling is not reversed. Will observe the behavior for a few more days.

 

[Ketchup]

Intel CPUs change speed for a variety of reasons. Unless you have changed the machine from default settings, full speed should only be observed when the machine is under full load. So if the load occasionally "hovering" around 100% but going up and down, what you are seeing is normal. HW Monitor will show utilization, so this shouldn't be too hard to see.

One other thing to consider if you don't believe the above is taking place. A bios setting is fully capable of telling the CPU to throttle at a lower temperature, and Dell is not going to provide the consumer with the ability to control that function. I personally don't believe they would set a temp that low for a core 2, but it's possible.

 

[addverma]

You are right, Dell does not give that level of control in BIOS, where I can change the CPU Speed based on temperature . I will observe the temperature, CPU Frequency and the CPU load for the next few days and update this. thread once again. Hopefully I would be able to see an increase in CPU Frequency.

 

[addverma]

So in the past few days, I have observed the following

1) I have still to complete 200 hrs. The threshold of the BreakIn of the thermal paste.
2) I have seen minimum frequency of 197 MHz in HW Monitor 1.29 32 bit.
3) I have seen the max temperature cross to about 68 degrees centigrade. And the CPU throttles once the temperature crosses 60 degrees centigrade. After that the max that the cores go to is 1017 MHz in short bursts. But otherwise the CPU settles to about 997 Mhz or around that even with 100% CPU load.
4) I have changed the power profile to Desk/Work Profile.

And finally I cannot hear my fan anymore. Previously I could but now I cannot.

 

[Ketchup]

Which line in HW Monitor is hitting 68? Are you still seeing the sluggishness? If the fans aren't getting as loud as they used to, it sounds like the thermal material is doing its job.

 

[addverma]

HW Monitor shows reading in a tree hierarchial structure. The top most is the my desktop's Name along with a ID. Just below that is the Processor details node. Just below Processor petails nodes is the "Temperatures" node. Under the "Temperatures" node there are the cores listed. In this node under the column "Max" I am seeing the value of 68 degrees centigrated. Generally I see 62-64 degrees centigrade as peak but a few days ago I saw 68 degrees centigrade as the peak, i.e. Max value.

I do not observe the sluggishness till the CPU throttles, but I do see the sluggishness after that. i.e. after the temperature in the core goes beyond 60 degrees cenitgrade. This also coincides with the "Clocks" node showing a Value of 997 Mhz, Min of 997 Mhz and Max of 1663 Mhz. The sluggishness that I observe is like when I type into a text box of Anandtech forum there is a significant delay in my typing as well as the characters appearing on the screen. Ditto when I use Libre office or Open Office. Switching of applications using ALT+TAB key combination is still snappy.

 

[Ketchup]

It sounds like you are looking at the CPU sensor on the board. You want to be looking at the temps from the cores themselves. There will be two on yours. Here is an example, from my system. For simplicity's sake, I have collapsed the other sensor sections.

 

[addverma]

Yes the temperatures that are shown above are the ones that I see too, though the values shown in my case are different then the one shown above. Further the image shown above also has a reading for Package under the Temperature. That is one value that I do not see.

Further the hierarchy of the display is shown as below
DELL
|--Intel Core T2300E
|--|-----Temperatures
|--|-----Clocks
|--|-----Utilizations
|--Toshiba
|--|-----Temperatures
|--|-----Utilizations

I am attaching images of the CPU before cleaning.


CPU and GPU after cleaning


Heat sink before cleaning


Heat Sink After Cleaning

 

[addverma]

HW Monitor at the bootup of the Laptop



After Opening of Firefox browser, Word Processor, Paint and HW Monitor


10-15 minutes after running all the applications together.

 

[Ketchup]

Good HW monitor pics, and temps aren't bad either for a laptop, that's what a good cleaning will do for you. But what are you using to tell that the CPU is cutting speed due to heat?

Edit: if I can make a suggestion, send us a screen shot of your screen with HW Monitor and the Performance tab of Windows Task manager, ideally at the time you feel the throttling is occurring.

 

[addverma]

If you look at image that I have uploaded of HW Monitor under the heading "After opening of Firefox Browser, Word Processor, Paint and HW Monitor" there the "Max" value of Temperature is "51-53". At the same time under the Clocks and the Column "Value" the reading is of 1663Mhz.

Now look at the final image that I have uploaded of HW Monitor under the heading "10-15 minutes after running of the applications together". Over here the "Max" value of Temperature is "62-64". At the same time under the Clocks and the Column "Value" the reading is of 997 MHz.

What I have observed with HW Monitor as well as Core Temp is that when I boot my computer up from cold the value of the Frequency/Clock remains in the range of 1663-1667 MHz which is close to what my CPU is rated. But once the temperature as reported in HW Monitor or other system monitoring utilities goes beyond 60 degrees centigrade the value of the CPU Frequency/Clock drops to 997 MHz or below and then it never goes up to 1663 MHz. No matter how much load I put on my Laptop. The only trigger point that I have been able to find is the temperature. I have used many other system monitoring utilities like Speed Fan, CPUZ and in all of them the same pattern is repeated. And for all of them the trigger is the temperature reading of 60 degrees centigrade.

 

[addverma]

As suggested I will take a screen shot of Laptop when the CPU is being throttled and also of the Task Manager and post it soon.

 

[Ketchup]

The first column is the only one in real time. The min and max columns do not relate to one another as far as time is concerned. So all we really see in the graphs is Intel SpeedStep doing its job. Showing a lower speed in real time with your cores at 100%, which would be visible through the first column of HW Monitor (or cpu-z) and the performance tab showing the load, would prove that the BIOS is intervening before the chip is. But your temps look fine, so think of this as an "only if you want to" experiment.