Researching a new TV purchase

[BoomerD]

We've been talking about replacing our 10 year old Sony Trinitron 27" TV. Obviously, there have been a lot of changes in TV technology since that one was new, and I haven't kept up with any of it.

What's the current "best"? Not planning to hang it on a wall, so thin & light aren't a concern, but overall picture quality and build quality are.

We've been rather fond of Sony products for years, but don't quite meet the level of fanaticism that would qualify us as "fanboi's... Their products have always been of good build quality, and (at least so far) their customer support has always been good.

We'd prefer to stay with Sony if possible because of our previous experience, but are not locked in to their products if something better is available. (I know most of AT seems to HATE Sony, but they've always been good for/to us)

The way our house is set up, we're looking at about 9-12 feet distance between our seating and the TV.

Not a fan of any of the local "big-box" type of electronics stores, but have seen some apparently nice sets at Costco.

Are there any unbiased sites out there to give good accurate recommendations?

 

[montypythizzle]

TBH, I want a DLP TV since they are large and have pretty good overall PQ.
Dunno what your budget is though.

 

[BoomerD]

Well, I don't want to break the bank for a TV, but something around/less than $2k would be ok.

 

[jkresh]

is this a tv or a home theater? At 9-12 feet for a home theater you would need to go with projection (at $2000 is enough for a good 720p projector and a 100inch screen, add around $1000 to go 1080p). If its mostly for tv then a large dlp (samsung) or lcos (sony) might work, though you would be somewhat size limited due to your budget (admitidly even a 50inch while "too small" for the room would be dramatically bigger then what you have now).

 

[krotchy]

Since you have a Costco membership, I recommend buying from there for their warranty/return policy. At 9-12 feet you are most likely going to want a DLP for sure, since an LCD will likely be too small. Although 52" LCD is probably just about right. Costco only has a Sharp and Phillips in that size, and both are very nice sets. I would recommend you not even look at Maxent, Vizio, Olevia, Westinghouse and Sceptre (NO SCEPTRE) since your budget already factors in spending Sony money.

As far as picking a TV, wander around Costco and other big boxes, check out the DLP/LCOS sets from Sony, Toshiba, Samsung, JVC, Mitsubishi and other top tier ones and find a set you like. Then find the best deal you can as you dont need to buy it that day.

My suggestion for a good buy for you would be the Samsung 61" LED DLP specifically. LED sets have much longer bulb life and a higher color space. I dont think Sony has any LED LCOS sets yet, but I think the benefits of LED in your price range outweigh the cost. Ask any DLP/LCOS owner how much they love bulb replacement, and you'll understand why LED's make life easier.

 

[Shadowknight]

Regardless, look into calibrating your TV, whether it be professional ISF (which can run over $300, but is the most accurate) or a calibration DVD (DVE or AVIA, and they should have some HD-DVD/blue-ray version of the discs out soon). You can even use the calibration utility that comes with a THX movie, but I'd recommend DVE/AVIA over it.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Well, I don't want to break the bank for a TV, but something around/less than $2k would be ok.

You might be interested in this LED lit Samsung 61" 1080P DLP for ~$2000.

 

[BoomerD]

Wow...youse guys think BIG! I was thinking about something in the 46" range or so...

The majority of use this will get is my wife watching HGTV or Desperate Housewives...with an occasional movie...

Myself, I might watch 3-4 hours of TV per week at the most...

 

[DBL]

Sounds like a 50" plasma would satisfy your needs. Look at Panasonic, Samsung and Pioneer. You'll get a better picture and save money compared to a Sony LCD.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: DBL
Sounds like a 50" plasma would satisfy your needs. Look at Panasonic, Samsung and Pioneer. You'll get a better picture and save money compared to a Sony LCD.

:thumbsup:

if you're looking in the 46" range, then this seems like a good recommendation. check out prices from the 42"-50" range. 720p should be fine, but if you find a great deal on 1080p panel I'd go for it (although not needed at that screen size...)

Pioneer is the most expensive of the two, and many reviewers seem to agree that they are the best quality overall for plasma--but also maybe not worth the price premium. I'm quite happy with my Samsung 42" plasma.

I think the Sony hate mostly comes from their marketing, and certain product lines. I haven't found anyone criticize their Bravia line though, for price or quality. I would recommend looking into those as well, albeit on par with the Pioneer line in prices I believe, those panels are excellent.

and all of these TVs will come with stands, so you wouldn't have to worry about mounting them on a wall if you don't want to.

 

[montypythizzle]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Well, I don't want to break the bank for a TV, but something around/less than $2k would be ok.

You might be interested in this LED lit Samsung 61" 1080P DLP for ~$2000.

FAP FAP FAP.

 

[BoomerD]

ROFL@ monty...

The big obstacle is convincing my wife to give up her monstrous oak entertainment system...THAT'S gonna cost me more then the dammed TV! :roll:

She's NOT gonna go for one of the standard black stands they sell for these types of TV's...It's gonna mean a trip to a real furniture store for some kind of wall-unit to fit...

 

[zinfamous]

I would recommend not storing such a TV in a typical wardrobe/entertainment center--particualrly one made of oak.

while the power draw/heat output isn't as terrifying as some reviews will have you believe (or older gen models were certianly capable of)...as a computer guy, you must realize the importance of keeping such high-end electronics in well-ventilated areas. consider an open-style TV stand. Oak is fine for that...hell, it's stronger than any of the sleek, dead-tech post-modern crap-holes of glass and steel that you find paired with these TVs at the local Big Box store. (i'm guesing that's what your'e talking about...)

in this situation...I would consider the pioneer or samsung line. they have sleek bezels with aesthetically pleasing stands (imo). your only choice, really, is to mount the flat panel on a wall or use the packed stand, which in the case of the sammies and pioneers is barely noticable. I'm not sure, but I think panasonic has done away with their silver, dual-end stands, which looked pretty aweful....of course, your other option is a DLP. which is a giant monster of a unit. Fine picture, but less manageable.

eh...at first I thought you were talking about the stands that come with the TV--those that you use when you don't wall mount them. some of what I said is still relevant
:beer:

 

[BoomerD]

Well, nearly two years later...and I still haven't replaced the 27" Sony CRT, but it's time. The dammed thing died a painful death a while back and my wife is getting tired of watching her favorite shows on a 17" monitor... (I knew she'd come around sooner or later)

We were at Costco last night, and they have a Panasonic 50" Plasma (720P) for under $1000. Not a bad looking picture, but some research sez that it's a "warehouse/club store model" and has fewer features and lower contrast ratio than the "standard model" as sold at BB, Sears, etc. I know I can beat the Costco price at the Egg by enough to almost pay for a 1 year extended warranty...(which I'd probably buy..maybe longer than 1 year) and the Egg is offering free shipping right now on it as well.

Anyone have any horror stories about buying something like this from newegg or a similar retailer?
I could get it at Sears, (yuck) at about the same price, but they'll try to rape me on an extended warranty. Best Buy is about the same price as Costco.

She's still whining about having to give up her large entertainment center...but I assured her that I'll get something nice to replace it...nothing a few cinder blocks and 2X12's can fix...

 

[s44]

I'd get the Panny X1 plasma from Amazon. $900 shipped and set up. Or the Samsung 50B450 for $1000.

Remember that the right credit card will double your warranty for free.

Too bad you missed your chance on the monstrous LED DLPs though... At your distance, a really big screen would have been great.

 

[mshan]

"The KURO arrived at my parents' house today. I must say, it's the best HDTV I've ever seen.

I mean I've looked at technically superior TVs before (Pioneer 'Elites'), but those were in a showroom setting, crappy content, questionable calibration, etc. The pater also has a three-colour CRT projector, but that's a whole different ball game... This KURO qualifies as my best viewing experience on a TV, and I've not even got to serious calibration yet. We all admitted this was actually good value at $2000.

The viewing angles are at least as good as an IPS LCD, and of course the contrast is far superior -- not to mention the size! I watched a bit of telly (HD and SD) as well as Apple TV content, so nothing native 1080p yet. Right now we're running a 'break-in' disc that just transitions through different colours. There's debate how necessary this might be for modern plasmas, but I figure why not be safe.

The consensus amongst experts as well as the punters on AVSForum (at least those who aren't blind LCD partisans) is that it may take a couple of years for KURO quality to be matched, either by high-end LCD or by improving Panasonic plasmas. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the best LCDs (perhaps the LED-backlit models) are able to match certain aspects of the KURO this year or next, but the thing is... most of those cost more than a $2000 50-inch KURO.

Also, you should bear in mind that the most prominent strengths of a good plasma (eg deep, 'inky' blacks) may be irrelevant if your viewing area is very bright (windows, lights, etc). The Pioneer KUROs probably show to best advantage in darkened 'home theatre' rooms. I did urge my father to consider the Samsung LN46A650 for the family room when it was on sale for $1299, as I wasn't sure if we needed plasma in such a space, but I'm frankly thrilled we got the Pioneer instead." http://forums.anandtech.com/me...ht_key=y&keyword1=kuro (page 2)

I personally own a more budget oriented Samsung LN46A550 and my parents have a 720p Panasonic plasma (previous generation). Antiglare properties of my LCD are absolutely superb; reflections are a real issue for me on the plasma (doesn't seem to bother my mother), primarily because she has a lamp right next to her at her viewing position in family room. Blacks are much better on plasma, and colors are deeper and richer. That being said, signal being outputted by Time Warner Cable box is less than stellar on some channels (HGTV in HD looks really good), so, for example, some black or shadow areas just become an amorphous blob with no shadow detail on plasma (OTA HDTV on my Samsung really seems as they broadcasters calibrate for Samsung / Sony LCD tuning - I think these two brands have large portion of hdtv market, because blacks, shadow detail, and colors all just seem very right to me). Whites on Panasonic, if calibrated according to settings found on web, can seem brownish and parents complain about dim overall picture. If you use OTA tuner in tv, make sure to check how quickly channels switch, as I've noticed it can be slightly sluggish at times. Still really like the colors of my parents plasma (my Samsung has a Cheimei panel, I think, and while it is very low noise and high resolution, it seems like there is just this hint of slightly bleached out colors on it (specifically when using my PS3 with it), though I do think it is tuned specifically how Samsung wanted it). Frys.com sometimes has some really good prices on hdtvs, though there is tax in California, I think.

edit #1: my viewing distance is about 12 - 13 ft. and I often feel that tv size is a little small, even for tv (not widescreen movies). I suspect another poster's recommendation of 50 - 52 inch diagonal is going to be spot on for your viewing distance.

edit #2: I read somewhere that Sony and Samsung LCDs both use same LCD panels, it's just tuning / calibration that is different. Also read that there is typically a several hundred dollar premium for Sony, but one uncorroborated poster I read (said he was a tv dealer), said that Sonys are supposed to be more reliable.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Well, nearly two years later...and I still haven't replaced the 27" Sony CRT, but it's time. The dammed thing died a painful death a while back and my wife is getting tired of watching her favorite shows on a 17" monitor... (I knew she'd come around sooner or later)

We were at Costco last night, and they have a Panasonic 50" Plasma (720P) for under $1000. Not a bad looking picture, but some research sez that it's a "warehouse/club store model" and has fewer features and lower contrast ratio than the "standard model" as sold at BB, Sears, etc. I know I can beat the Costco price at the Egg by enough to almost pay for a 1 year extended warranty...(which I'd probably buy..maybe longer than 1 year) and the Egg is offering free shipping right now on it as well.

Anyone have any horror stories about buying something like this from newegg or a similar retailer?
I could get it at Sears, (yuck) at about the same price, but they'll try to rape me on an extended warranty. Best Buy is about the same price as Costco.

She's still whining about having to give up her large entertainment center...but I assured her that I'll get something nice to replace it...nothing a few cinder blocks and 2X12's can fix...

What model number is it? I think a 50" Panasonic 720p plasma will be the best bang for your buck from that viewing distance. You won't notice much, if any, benefit from 1080p unless you go larger than 50", and then you're looking at probably $1,500 - $2,000 for a 54"+ 1080p TV.

There's nothing wrong with ordering a TV from an online retailer with a good return policy like Amazon, especially if you get white-glove delivery (which means you don't sign for delivery until they unpackage the TV, set it on your stand, plug in one input, and turn it on). I wouldn't order a TV from Newegg. They have curbside shipping, which means they'll put the box on your porch, and you have to sign for deliver right then. Also, once you sign for delivery, you can't return it to Newegg and have to deal with the manufacturer. Granted, Panasonic has about the best warranty service out there, but it would still be nice to not have to deal with them right away.

 

[BoomerD]

This is the Costco model:

http://www2.panasonic.com/cons...02_7000000000000005702

Only 2 HDMI inputs, but since nothing I have is HDTV compatible...yet, that's not an issue.

My big"concern is the difference in contrast ratio as compared to the "regular version" of the model:

http://www2.panasonic.com/cons...02_7000000000000005702

15,000:1 as compared to 30,000:1.

While I don't know squat about most of the technology, from what I've read, contrast ratio is the difference between the whitest whites and the blackest blacks a screen can produce...and there are a couple of ways of measuring that...and most are inflated anyway. BUT, when the manufacturer's specs show one at twice the ratio of their other model, that leaves me to believe the difference will be noticeable.

I agree about the difference between Newegg and "white glove delivery." I'll look into that with Amazon. Of course, if I get it from Costco...the best it'll get is "work glove treatment," because I'll pick it up and haul it home myself...

 

[Spicedaddy]

Get a 50" Panasonic S1 plasma

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Spicedaddy
Get a 50" Panasonic S1 plasma

I looked at the S14 model at Costco.(same basic specs as the X14, just 1080P)
The S14 is the 1080P version of the X1. I'm not sure I'd ever notice the difference between 720 and 1080, especially at the viewing distance in my house. Hard to justify the extra ~$300 for something I'd never see.

I'd LOVE to buy the G10...but it's about $500 more than the X1...and she's already bitching about the cost...(but she DAMMED sure doesn't want to keep watching on the tiny 17" monitor!)

 

[s44]

If you spend more, it should be on a bigger set (52"+).

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: s44
If you spend more, it should be on a bigger set (52"+).

I would go farther and say a 58" or larger set. You're right; you will likely notice little difference just from the increase in resolution with a 50" TV from 9-12 feet away, so I wouldn't waste money on that. You might notice the benefit from less processing of 1080i and 1080p sources, but that's about it.

I'd be wary of the X14 plasma. It doesn't pay to compare contrast ratios between different brands, because the methods for determining them seem so arbitrary. However, it does pay to compare contrast ratios within the same brand. If Panasonic states that the X14 has half the contrast ratio of the X1, then I wouldn't touch it.

 

[BoomerD]

While I wouldn't mind buying B-I-G-G-E-R, she's not gonna go for it. The $1000 we're looking at now is about to make her blow her top...(I think we paid about $500 for our 27" Trinitron...and that's what she thinks a replacement should cost...:roll:

I'd LOVE to get the Panasonic 50" G10, more features, better screen, etc., but it's $400-$500 more than the ones we're already looking at.

Having lived for 55 years with a TV no larger than 27", I think a 50" will be more than plenty.

 

[mshan]

My parents got this same tv stand from Best Buy for well under $100 and IMO it matches the angular shape of the Panasonic plasmas quite well: http://www.amazon.com/gp/custo...=cm_ciu_pdp_images_all

I own this stand (no tv on it, as I use a dlp front projector system with it) and it is surprisingly nice for it's price (hardwood sides, mdf interior, was under $275 shipped when it was in stock): http://www.thenerds.net/TECHCR...l_Credenza.CRE60B.html

Would love to own a Salamander Synergy Triple 20 (I think JackBurton has some pics of his 60 inch Pioneer Kuro on this stand in this forum), but it is rather expensive around $1200.

 

[BoomerD]

The first one you linked to is OMFG! Fugly...She'd let me use cinder blocks and 2X12's before that...

NO black furniture in our house at all. She has a (well earned )deep-seated hate for black furniture...

I've looked at a few decent oak pieces that will work. I may still have to spring for a nice oak entertainment center...but will be sure to get one that allows good air flow. (maybe install a couple of large case fans in inconspicous places.... )