[Retired] The LCD Thread

[redlinez33]

Well, I took back the gateway. At first I loved it, and I still think its a good monitor, if only it was $100 cheaper.. The backlight bleeding at first was about the same as the samsung, but some how it magically got worse.. So bad I could see the bleeding in crysis when your in a dark scene (like night)........... If it wasnt for the backlight bleeding it would be worth its $550 price tag (well atleast close)

Besides the bleeding it was an amazing monitor, but theres 1 think that annoys me more than dead pixels, and thats backlight bleeding.

So i traded it in for the HP W2408H (btw you have to buy a HDMI to DVI cable, it doesnt come with one) to test it out.. Let you know what I think after few hours of messing with it , so far so good though, very little to no backlight bleeding (even at 80% brightness) and no dead pixels (that I have found)

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Gunlance

Originally posted by: xtknight
Sorry I didn't notice your post at first. Sometimes I answer out of order and forget to look back.

No problem, I just did not know how things ran here. Hell I would donate to the cause in this thread.

Originally posted by: xtknight
Mind linking this image of Saturn just so I can see what you mean?

Gladly; Saturn

Maybe these digital pictures might help:

Image One
Image Two
Image Three
Image Four

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Gunlance
I get the same performance with this monitor as I do out of the Apple Cinema Displays on campus.

Well I'm not sure that this is true but it all depends on how happy you are with your monitor.

What I meant to say here is that any kind of color editing, or anything if I go look at it on the Cinema Display it does look better, better color etc. But it?s not like the color on my monitor really screws up the image or anything because I am seeing the wrong colors on my monitor at home. Not sure how to put it!

Probably everything is shown, just not as accurately?[/quote]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Belineas are not sold in the US.

Fortunately there might be a better 22" choice for you. In particular, you should look at the ViewSonic VX2255wmb. I really can't guarantee that it's going to have a better black level or anything, though. It's possible that a glossy monitor like an HP w2207 would be better for you. Glossy panels make black a lot darker but that doesn't mean they have better color accuracy.

The Belinea?s are not? ARGH! Wonder if I could ship a certain model over. Anything crazy un-compatible like the power chord or anything? Or are their models not any better than what is being suggested.

No idea.

The HP w2207?s is starting to sound like a winner given my gripes with the webcam in the Viewsonic. Seems like two would be awesome. Get another one after awhile for portrait.

The w2207 does seem to fit all my needs, and the extra features I see myself using to at the same time. All the reviews say movie watching is good, gaming is great response time comparable to that one samsung model....the gloss though...seems like this monitor needs a certain "environment" all the time to perform well. Can anyone comment on how annoying this is with reflections.? If I have a lamp on behind me about 7ft away on another desk, or the sun in the window to the left makes the panel reflect a lot that would suck.

Well take a look at my photos here (matte vs glossy): http://www.flickr.com/photos/9138204@N03/

I have a window right behind me. The glossy even looks better overall sometimes.

However are there any Samsung or LG models currently that you could suggest (that would compare to the w2207)? They seem cheaper, and they don't have the gloss coating.


EDIT:

I think w2207 it is, I will see how the coating works out, I could always return. Currently at staples I can get one for $280. Seems good, plus I can pick it up at the store an easy 15min trip down the hill to town.

That is of course. LG or Samsung have nothing to compare, maybe be my backup if I hate the coating on the 2207. IS $280 a good deal?

Before I forget what do you guys think of:

- Dell UltraSharp 2007WFP
- Gateway FPD2275W

Another EDIT:

The 215TW is amazing. But is it $430 amazing? Does it blow everything out of the water that I am looking at?

Forget the w2207. You better jump on that 215TW while you still have the chance. That's a needle in a haystack.

 

[redlinez33]

I wonder how bad the input lag is on the 215TW, i am considering ordering it (VA panel like my old samsung, I miss it in ways)........... I play games like UT 3 (fast paced) some times, so will the 215TW not work for me?

BTW, the HP is good so far, I guess I just miss my VA panel

 

[Gunlance]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Forget the w2207. You better jump on that 215TW while you still have the chance. That's a needle in a haystack.

Really? Even at the price?

 

[redlinez33]

ohh btw, if you are purchasing your w2207 locally make sure you look on the outside of the box, on the white sticker and find something called REV. Make sure this starts with either a S or a G.. If it starts with an A (AVOID)....

REV G = LG Screen
REV S = Samsung
REV A = AVOID

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
I wonder how bad the input lag is on the 215TW, i am considering ordering it (VA panel like my old samsung, I miss it in ways)........... I play games like UT 3 (fast paced) some times, so will the 215TW not work for me?

BTW, the HP is good so far, I guess I just miss my VA panel

X-Bit: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl.../lcd-parameters_7.html

Hard Forum (Some don't notice, some do): http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1114024

 

[Gunlance]

Well as of now it's a toss-up between the two. The input lag/lag reports sound annoying for a $430 price tag, even youtube videos display lag on the 215TW next to the W2207! What a coincidence.

Do the two monitors just not even compare? And I should get the 215TW?

The price is just so much higher than the w2207.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
X-Bit: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl.../lcd-parameters_7.html

Reading that was very insightful.

I wish he would have measured some how that difference in games to the "well-trained gamer". I don't know if I fall into the category but the combination of the speed of an FPS and my mouse at a high DPI setting...this monitor sounds like it would "limit" me. Or is my mouse going to be fine and be unaffected?

The article didn't do much to actually re-assure me the price tag is worth it.

 

[redlinez33]

the 215TW is a VA panel. VA panels image quality typically is superior to that of a TN in pretty much everyway except for speed....... So thats a decision you have to make. TNs are typically the fastest for gaming. W2207 is a TN panel, so now its your decision.

Let me say this though, I went from a Samsung 971P (which is a VA panel but has some issues mentioned here) and I had a W2207 and well, I was disappointed to say the least, but if you never seen a VA or IPS panel, then maybe you wont notice.

 

[redlinez33]

read the xbit explanation, funny. I am a gamer, I like games, but I like having fun in games. Dont get me wrong, I like winning and try to win, but I am not sure if the 50ms delay is going to change anything..... Gunlance is probably thinking the same thing as me. While its probably not a problem, and the monitor is probably AMAZING, what happens if it turns out to be a problem? I guess tigerdirect does take returns, but do you want to take that chance?

of course there is price, let me say this, over the last few weeks I have tried 5 different monitors.. 2 W2207 (one samsung panel, one Avoid panel), viewsonic VX2255WMB, Samsung 245BW, HP W2408H, Gateway FHD2400, and let me say this, they all felt lacking compared to my Samsung 971P in terms of image quality. Sure they are faster, but dark scenes look like crap compared to the 971P, viewing angles suck (the HP w2408H is the worse), and there default color accuracy is so bad I cant believe they sell them this way (gateway was actually acceptable in this part, but it had other problems.

I am really considering going back to my trusty samsung PVA panels, theres a reason its more expensive.........

 

[redlinez33]

Heres my initial impressions (about 6 hours using the monitor) of the HP w2408H. So far its not to much different than the Samsung 245bw except in a few areas. First is the slightly more vibrant colors, its not as noticable as the gateway FHD2400 though. It comes pretty much with the same software as the gateway FHD2400 for tuning, so it made things easy to calibrate to an acceptable level. Very little backlight bleeding and no dead pixels. Viewing angles arent quiet as good as the samsung or gateway, but I dont care about that as much.

What I like about the HP and the GATEWAY is they have a built in scaling capabilities. So if you run the desktop at lets say 1680x1050, the text still looks very sharp, while the Samsung at this resolution is blurry (even with sharpness cranked up).

So far (this could change, I have only had this monitor for a few hours now) I would say the HP 2408H==Samsung 245BW>Gateway FHD2400....... The The $100 savings + better viewing angles might over advantages of the HP (easier to calibrate for the average user and most of the time, slightly better image quality). If it wasnt for the viewing angle problems, the HP would, in my current experience, be by far the better choice out of the three for a computer monitor. The samsung comes with a three year warranty, HP comes with 1......



I am still considering ordering that Samsung 215TW...... It would be 3" smaller, but it might be well worth it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Gunlance

Originally posted by: xtknight

Forget the w2207. You better jump on that 215TW while you still have the chance. That's a needle in a haystack.

Really? Even at the price?

Yes, IMO. It used to retail for $550 but it's a great screen and it's rarely in stock anymore.

The input lag is mostly 48 ms according to X-Bit Labs, which isn't as bad as some 24" screens. The w2207's one frame less of lag does not make it worth it over the 215TW. It is inferior in so many other ways like contrast, viewing angle, color accuracy, and backlight bleeding.

I assume your main use is photo editing so frankly the 215TW is just what you're looking for. The w2207 is a TN that's unlikely to be much better than the BenQ you have. The 215TW on the other hand is known for its good performance on the darker end of the grayscale and true 8-bit color. I'm not saying it's going to be perfect but I definitely think it's an improvement over what the w2207 would give you. They are in totally different classes (TN vs VA).

 

[redlinez33]

.

 

[ChaoZ]

Ok I know I wanted a non-TN really badly, but sadly the selection is limited and most of them are way out of my price range. So I'm forced to go with a TN. I'm thinking of the Dell E207WFP 20"; good choice? I went to the Apple store today and saw their 24" monitor/computer combo and it was gorgeous. Will the Dell compare? Also, stupid question, but are there specs that will tell the width of the monitor including the casing?

 

[Gunlance]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Yes, IMO. It used to retail for $550 but it's a great screen and it's rarely in stock anymore.

The input lag is mostly 48 ms according to X-Bit Labs, which isn't as bad as some 24" screens. The w2207's one frame less of lag does not make it worth it over the 215TW. It is inferior in so many other ways like contrast, viewing angle, color accuracy, and backlight bleeding.

I assume your main use is photo editing so frankly the 215TW is just what you're looking for. The w2207 is a TN that's unlikely to be much better than the BenQ you have. The 215TW on the other hand is known for its good performance on the darker end of the grayscale and true 8-bit color. I'm not saying it's going to be perfect but I definitely think it's an improvement over what the w2207 would give you. They are in totally different classes (TN vs VA).

This monitor is the true upgrade then, I understand. Sure is a lot of money though.

Nice assumption with the photo editing, xtknight but my main use with my would be internet/gaming.

I read a crap-ton into the slower response, yeah your right. The one frame is not a big deal. Most of the whiners are intently looking for the "lag" and comparing only to CRT etc. as was with my current BenQ ignorance is bliss! If I ever do encounter a death in game due to the monitor I really doubt I would notice.

A few questions before you guys have me convinced to spend this much money.

At $430 does anything compare?

How long should this monitor last me? Do LCD's go bad like CRT's?

On top of that with the way technology is,is this a bad time to spend that much on a monitor? Anything coming out or anything comparable pending release? Or is everything just new TN panel monitors.

Lastly before I commit I would like to know how this monitor is compared to the:

- Dell 2007WFP
- NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2

I know the NEC is pretty hard to find, should I just not even think about that one? haha.

 

[czajunia]

xtknight, I am not sure if you remember me asking some questions about Hazro 24'' and your opinion how it compares to NEC 2490. Have you by any chance heard from Simon at TFTCentral about Hazro 24'' additional black level measurements?

I assume you haven't for he'd probably just post the results on the forum rather than sending you a private message but I thought I'd double check with you. I am sorry for bothering you with this (again) but I just would like to get my new baby and as you advised before I am still waiting for the answer to your post at the TFTCentral.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: czajunia
xtknight, I am not sure if you remember me asking some questions about Hazro 24'' and your opinion how it compares to NEC 2490. Have you by any chance heard from Simon at TFTCentral about Hazro 24'' additional black level measurements?

I assume you haven't for he'd probably just post the results on the forum rather than sending you a private message but I thought I'd double check with you. I am sorry for bothering you with this (again) but I just would like to get my new baby and as you advised before I am still waiting for the answer to your post at the TFTCentral.

No, I haven't heard, sorry.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Gunlance
This monitor is the true upgrade then, I understand. Sure is a lot of money though.

Nice assumption with the photo editing, xtknight but my main use with my would be internet/gaming.

OK well if I understand you right you want an internet/gaming monitor that can also display that image of Saturn better? I do still think the 215TW is better here since the w2207 would not be much of an improvement over what you have.

I read a crap-ton into the slower response, yeah your right. The one frame is not a big deal. Most of the whiners are intently looking for the "lag" and comparing only to CRT etc. as was with my current BenQ ignorance is bliss! If I ever do encounter a death in game due to the monitor I really doubt I would notice.

I'm not saying it's not there but I am saying 48 ms is something you can get used to. I got used to the 48-60 ms of lag on my LCD2690WUXi pretty fast. I guess I can still see it, but it's not a big deal unless you really play to win. Sure that sounds stupid, but even if it does cause your player to die a couple times it's not such a huge deal. Maybe I'd get used to it more if I played games more.

A few questions before you guys have me convinced to spend this much money.

At $430 does anything compare?

The HP LP2065 does, if you happen to end up with an S-IPS panel. Since several people have, it's worth a shot. It's a standard aspect 20" vs the widescreen 21".

How long should this monitor last me? Do LCD's go bad like CRT's?

At least three years if nothing is wrong with your unit. Beyond that you might be subject to a dimming backlight. It depends on how much you use it though. You'd probably have to use it eight hours a day for it to dim after three years.

On top of that with the way technology is,is this a bad time to spend that much on a monitor? Anything coming out or anything comparable pending release? Or is everything just new TN panel monitors.

Hmm not really. If you were spending maybe $1000 that would be something to worry about because of new LED LCDs coming out at around that price range. But don't expect anything miraculous to come near $430 anytime soon. You are best to stick with what we have already like the LP2065 or 215TW.

Lastly before I commit I would like to know how this monitor is compared to the:

- Dell 2007WFP
- NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2

I know the NEC is pretty hard to find, should I just not even think about that one? haha.

2007WFP is no longer sold. In any case, you have more luck getting an S-IPS with the LP2065. If you can get a guaranteed S-IPS 2007WFP on eBay then go for it.

If you can find the NEC, then sure. You might like the LP2065 just as much anyway, though if glossy screens aren't your thing. Personally I was very happy with my 20WMGX2 but it did have burn-in and the control buttons got stuck which hasn't happened with my other LCDs. I liked the glossy screen but I have to admit a high-contrast matte LCD is just as good.

Note that the 215TW would be better at displaying darker tones than the LP2065 unless you have a colorimeter.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: PhotoShooter
I'm currently in the market for a new 24" LCD to replace my aging ViewSonic PS790. I intend to use this mostly for Photo editing and web browsing and Office related work. I've been considering the Dell 2407WFP-HC and just saw that it's price is reduced $100 down to $599. Does this help to make this a possible choice or should I consider waiting for the 2408WFP? I'm not sure that I really need/want the wider gamut that the 'HC' feature provides. I tend to edit photos for both web use and occasionally printed photo work. This price range is in my sweet spot, 500 - 750. Any suggestions would be great.

Try the ViewSonic VX2435wm instead. It should have more accurate colors than the 2407WFP-HC for what you do. I only recommend HC versions if you're doing only print work.

 

[redlinez33]

My recommendation would to put the HP w2408H on the list.. Its cheaper than the gateway and overall is better picture but it doesnt have the inputs. More expensive than the samsung but a more vibrant picture.... The viewing angles might be SLIGHTLY worse than the Samsung and gateway, but overall picture is better.. I find it weird that extremetech reviewed it so poorly, yet prad reviewed it so good. Maybe the quality of the w2408 isnt quiet as good as the w2408H???? They are slightly different (one does have DC, so maybe some things are slightly different about it?) Also they lowered the price of the 2408H (its $500 now instead of $565).....

I would say it atleast belongs under the GAMING part...

EDIT: And according to HPs website, the 2408H has a contrast ratio of 2000:1 (static) ? Typo maybe?

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfr...roduct=3551927&lang=en

I dont know, but the black detail on my 2408H beats the pants off the Samsung 245BW and even the gateway FHD2400

Well thats atleast my opinion

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Trean
I don't know how prevalent a factor it should be, but you might wish to note whether the monitors have HDCP compliant inputs. If the NEC and the HP were equal in all instances, the fact the NEC has an HDCP compliant input makes it a tad bit better in my mind at least.

Done.

That may be the biggest weakness of the NEC 2470: inputs. It has one DVI-D w/HDCP and one VGA. Its not a problem for me because I don't need them, but if you're looking for multiple A/V inputs, this monitor isn't for you.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Speaking of the 2470, I just ran the PassMark Monitor Test and Pixel Persistance Analyzer from PRAD, and it passed with flying colors. I was almost afraid to do it, but was pleasantly surprised by the results. Its now "officially" confirmed: absolutely no dead or stuck pixels, panel is uniform with no backlight bleeding, no visible ghosting or smearing, and I can see all steps in the test scales. I can also see step 2 and up from the DCP black point test.

I've also played Call of Duty 4, FEAR, FarCry, Rome Total War, and America's Army. Again, no perceptible input lag and no visible ghosting. The only one I'm having a problem with is AA; a couple of the really dark, hazy maps need some tweaking to not look like a gray mess. On the other hand, dark environments look great in FEAR, so I'm not sure whats going on.

 

[redlinez33]

I am considering getting a calibrator and was looking at a spyder2express (cheap enough and it seems like it gets the job done).... Is there any other calibrator that would be better for less say $120 or less?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
I am considering getting a calibrator and was looking at a spyder2express (cheap enough and it seems like it gets the job done).... Is there any other calibrator that would be better for less say $120 or less?

Yes, the Pantone Huey Pro. (Pro not regular version.)

$80 best deal by far http://www.amazon.com/Pantone-...huey-Pro/dp/B000OFC1YY

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: ChaoZ
Ok I know I wanted a non-TN really badly, but sadly the selection is limited and most of them are way out of my price range. So I'm forced to go with a TN. I'm thinking of the Dell E207WFP 20"; good choice? I went to the Apple store today and saw their 24" monitor/computer combo and it was gorgeous. Will the Dell compare? Also, stupid question, but are there specs that will tell the width of the monitor including the casing?

What do you mean by casing? Bezel/product measurements should include the dimensions of the whole device. Typically there are measurements including stand and without stand.

The only width measurement that gives the width of the viewable screen only is the Active Area measurement.

The iMac 24" (H-IPS) is among the best of LCDs and the E207WFP won't be close to that. It should still be sharp and bright though since it's an LCD.

I don't know much about the E207WFP but there aren't many 20" TNs I'd recommend. Maybe the LG L204WT. But there are better 22" choices for good prices/values. For example check the Multimedia list in the OP. The Acer AL2216Wbd is a great economical choice. Available for $220 USD at Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...24009094&Tpk=AL2216Wbd

Almost guaranteed to give you better quality than the $214 E207WFP.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
My recommendation would to put the HP w2408H on the list.. Its cheaper than the gateway and overall is better picture but it doesnt have the inputs. More expensive than the samsung but a more vibrant picture.... The viewing angles might be SLIGHTLY worse than the Samsung and gateway, but overall picture is better.. I find it weird that extremetech reviewed it so poorly, yet prad reviewed it so good. Maybe the quality of the w2408 isnt quiet as good as the w2408H???? They are slightly different (one does have DC, so maybe some things are slightly different about it?) Also they lowered the price of the 2408H (its $500 now instead of $565).....

I would say it atleast belongs under the GAMING part...

EDIT: And according to HPs website, the 2408H has a contrast ratio of 2000:1 (static) ? Typo maybe?

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfr...roduct=3551927<=en

I dont know, but the black detail on my 2408H beats the pants off the Samsung 245BW and even the gateway FHD2400

Well thats atleast my opinion

I also found it odd that ExtremeTech gave it a lower review. They liked the FHD2400 a lot better which is why I had that in the OP. I want to wait for more reviews of the w2408 I guess.

I'm a little wary to place the w2408h above both other 24" TNs without a more in depth technical review and solid, wide consensus.

I read somewhere about a blue tint on the w2408 that was unfixable. Was that your post before an edit? If so, did you end up fixing it?

I'm really not too fond of the one year warranty on the HP and lack of inputs compared to the Gateway. I guess the Gateway has a one year warranty as well. Sheesh. :\

Are you going to return the Samsung, or the HP? Or are you going to try calibrating both before you decide?

Yes the 2000:1 is a typo or exaggeration, I doubt it reaches 1000:1. Dynamic is probably more like 1700:1.