[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Cheex
Are laptop screens TNs??
Dell Inspiron specifically...

Mostly. I believe the Inspirons are. The only IPS ones I know of are certain IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad models which were actually decent. I don't know have any more info on that.

Originally posted by: BassBomb
hey xt, how is your nec treating you after all this time

Mines going a year strong and still perfect. Image retention always happens when in general windows but not in anything else

It's going pretty well although image retention has been the main problem.

I had it pretty bad for awhile especially at the top of the screen. Photos (nec_heat_damage):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9138204@N03/

During the summer it was noticeable even in the middle of the panel at times also.

Ever since I got my NEC LCD2690WUXi (26" H-IPS) though I have left the 20WMGX2 off to let it heal burn-in wise. And after just a week or so of leaving it off, the burn-in has been gone ever since I've been using it lately. It's amazing.

I noticed on one of the LCD databases there are IPS 24" with high contrast ratios and 8 bit panels, any word as to what monitors use this panel?

Same thing i saw for 30" with a very high contrast ratio, these are dynamic of course

24" H-IPS standard gamut: iMac 24", NEC LCD2490WUXi (no Euro availability), Hazro HZ24W (no US availability)
26" H-IPS wide gamut: Planar PX2611W, NEC LCD2690WUXi, Hazro HZ26W (no US availability)
30" H-IPS wider gamut: NEC LCD3090WQXi

I know the NEC models have a polarizer or film to make IPS viewing angles even wider (eliminates the purple glow on black).

H-IPS stands for high-aperture-ratio IPS. Mitsubishi docs say that it has a 750:1 vs 700:1 contrast advantage, due to 10% increase in aperture ratio of the panel. That has held true in my testing which I will reveal in the upcoming LCD2690WUXi review. It has taken awhile since I'm lazy and I also want to provide something that no other review of the LCD26 has, yet. The "job well done" feeling isn't there yet for me.

 

[xtknight]

-----
To all (RE: LCD2690WUXi review):
-----

I really only have time to work on it on weekends. When it comes to unique stuff is there anything you guys would like to see covered in the LCD2690WUXi review in particular? I'm running out of ideas but I don't want to spend time on mundane stuff that is already out there. Besides, I'm all about catering to what the public (or thread) wants. Testing with external devices isn't practical here. You'd have to give me a real good excuse to hookup this HDTV tuner (480i/480p/720p/1080i VGA/DVI out) and broken Yagi antenna.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
I know people talk about the ghosting problems of the 2407WFP-HC. Have reviewers picked up on this and agree??? behardware (i think) said they didnt notice this.... For $600 for a high quality panel otherwise, sounds like a good deal.......... But I am scared of bad ghosting.....

BTW I am liking my samsung 245BW, but I miss the quality of a VA panel.

Yes, reviewers are unanimous here. The ghosting is there and can be annoying for darker games.

I would be scared of ghosting too unless your main use is photo editing. For movies it might not be so bad, either.

VX2435wm is a decent VA panel, BTW.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: najames
Bahh, I've been following this thread forever, even posted a few times. I've been waiting patiently for a dual widescreen monitor setup somewhat like I use at work (2 x 19" non-widescreen Dells). I kept thinking that they come out with a good smaller monitor with HDCP, but it never seemed to happen. I don't want BIG 24"+ monitors or I'll need bigger tables for my equipment. Even though they are bigger that I wanted, I picked up 2 HP W2207 monitors at Staples yesterday for $245 each. They look like they should both be Samsung panels because they are labeled Rev STM001. They do have height adjustment, which is nice since I'm tall, wife's short.

We don't do gaming, usually surfing, videos, audio, and loading pics. I do a LOT of system work, testing Linux stuff, or connected up to work, and crunching data.

Are these a good deal or do you have other suggestions? I'm about ready to unbox them unless someone has other ideas.

Well not much can beat two Samsung-based w2207s. If those are already bigger than what you want then I really have no suggestions for you.

It looks like the HP LP1965 (VA) has HDCP support. But from personal experience I'd rather have a 22" TN over a 19" VA any day of the week for anything except photo editing. I love my LG L226WT based on a direct comparison to my VP930b. I do much the same things you do.

Actually I don't know for sure about the HDCP on the LP1965. Conflicting reports...HP's US site indicates it though: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc...70-444767-3296839.html

 

[Tasiin]

Okay, thanks a lot for your help xtknight (again). Sounds like the WFP is probably the better option of the two. I'd assume that the orange/purple bleeding would be slightly less intrusive on a matte screen, anyhow. I'll have to think about it, but I may give the lottery a shot soon if things don't start looking up.

Do you (or anyone else that's willing to chime in) happen to know how good Dell's return policy is? Not sure how many hoops I'll have to jump through exactly to get it returned if I get a PVA, but it seems as if most people are able to do it. The 2007WFP only seems to be available through the small business section on Dell's site at the moment as well, not sure if that will be a problem or not.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Tasiin
Okay, thanks a lot for your help xtknight (again). Sounds like the WFP is probably the better option of the two. I'd assume that the orange/purple bleeding would be slightly less intrusive on a matte screen, anyhow. I'll have to think about it, but I may give the lottery a shot soon if things don't start looking up.

Yes, the orangish tint is more of a glossy panel thing from what I can tell.

Do you (or anyone else that's willing to chime in) happen to know how good Dell's return policy is? Not sure how many hoops I'll have to jump through exactly to get it returned if I get a PVA, but it seems as if most people are able to do it. The 2007WFP only seems to be available through the small business section on Dell's site at the moment as well, not sure if that will be a problem or not.

I'm never real clear on it. I think in 21 or 30 days you can exchange for refurbs continually.

For returning I have no idea. The policies on Dell's site are lengthy, ambiguous, and sometimes even conflicting. And they vary per country so make sure you're on the right site. And who knows if it varies between home/small business/whatever else or even the CSR you get. If they have one of those online live chat things you might try there.

 

[czajunia]

NEC 2690WUXi

I have read some opinions that wide gamut monitors are not the best for regular use, can cause more trouble than offer benefits and are generally recommended for people who work with wide gamut supporting applications all the time. How does it work with 2690? Apparently it is impossible to program monitor's LUT to use in a standard color gamut. So if you want to use basic color space you pay premium for some features you won't be able to use. Is this correct or am I mistaken here?
Also some users report that 26'' screens have problems with panel uniformity? Anyone noticed that with 2690? And the last thing - is it suitable for games? I have read mixed opinions on this. I assume that it's not as goos as NEC's famous 20'' model though.

Thank's a lot for your answers.

 

[Cheex]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Cheex
Are laptop screens TNs??
Dell Inspiron specifically...

Mostly. I believe the Inspirons are. The only IPS ones I know of are certain IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad models which were actually decent. I don't know have any more info on that.

This is a good test because I love my laptop screen (glossy TN), so a desktop monitor would be okay for me as a glossy TN.

 

[najames]

xtknight, your a Ubuntu user. I've used Ubuntu since Warty and now have some Ubuntu PCs, a Mint Daryna (Gutsy based), a CentOS server, etc. I like Mint even though it is 32bit because stuff just works out of the box, looks great, and my wife even likes it, a big plus!!

My only real grip with Linux (aside from "video drivers") is changing monitors or trying to add refresh rates, etc. How do you generate new profiles for monitors? I've used Linux for years and it seems like it is a pain in the butt every time. I did a dpkg reconfigure command last night and puked into low grapphics mode afterwards, no w2207 monitor in their list either, kind of expected. I used the menu it popped up in low graphics mode to tell it I have a 1680x1050 widscreen monitor and it just went back to using my 1280x1024 settings anyway. I found someone else with the same onboard x1250 ATI graphics, same HP w2207 monitor and pasted in his graphics settings in my /etc/X11/xorg.conf file and it puked. I have jacked around with the mode settings, adding a 1680x1050 setting and still no go. There has to be an easier way to do this that I'm unaware of.

 

[xtknight]

edit:

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: najames
xtknight, your a Ubuntu user. I've used Ubuntu since Warty and now have some Ubuntu PCs, a Mint Daryna (Gutsy based), a CentOS server, etc. I like Mint even though it is 32bit because stuff just works out of the box, looks great, and my wife even likes it, a big plus!!

My only real grip with Linux (aside from "video drivers") is changing monitors or trying to add refresh rates, etc. How do you generate new profiles for monitors? I've used Linux for years and it seems like it is a pain in the butt every time. I did a dpkg reconfigure command last night and puked into low grapphics mode afterwards, no w2207 monitor in their list either, kind of expected. I used the menu it popped up in low graphics mode to tell it I have a 1680x1050 widscreen monitor and it just went back to using my 1280x1024 settings anyway. I found someone else with the same onboard x1250 ATI graphics, same HP w2207 monitor and pasted in his graphics settings in my /etc/X11/xorg.conf file and it puked. I have jacked around with the mode settings, adding a 1680x1050 setting and still no go. There has to be an easier way to do this that I'm unaware of.

My NVIDIA (closed-source) drivers make it a cinch if you can get X to startup at all.

Basically you run "gksu nvidia-settings" to open the NVIDIA control panel, and then press Detect Displays. Then Save to X Config and Ctrl+Alt+Backspace. Then everything should work. You can customize it from there. It even works great for dual monitor setups.

Are you using fglrx (closed-source) drivers for your X1250? I'd recommend that as the closed-source ones tend to work with monitors and DDC better. And ATI might have a similar tool, I'm not sure.

If you're using the open source ones you might try ddcprobe to get the frequency ranges.


andy@andy-desktop:~$ sudo ddcprobe | grep monitorrange
monitorrange: 31-92, 50-85

You can insert these in xorg.conf although I forget the exact cmds since I've just been using nvidia-settings to configure my stuff. Here, the first range is horizontal and second is vertical. Horizontal is in kHz, vertical in Hz.

You might have to generate a modeline for your LCD.

$ gtf 1680 1050 60
(general timing formula)

Modeline "1680x1050_60.00" 147.14 1680 1784 1968 2256 1050 1051 1054 1087 -HSync +Vsync

For a 1680x1050@60 Hz modeline. Then you put this in the monitor section of your xorg.conf. Then you might have to add "1680x1050_60.00" to "Modes" as well.

If your monitor has corrupt EDID (doubtful), you can use IgnoreEDID=TRUE and UseEDID=FALSE at least for NVIDIA drivers.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: czajunia
NEC 2690WUXi

I have read some opinions that wide gamut monitors are not the best for regular use, can cause more trouble than offer benefits and are generally recommended for people who work with wide gamut supporting applications all the time. How does it work with 2690? Apparently it is impossible to program monitor's LUT to use in a standard color gamut. So if you want to use basic color space you pay premium for some features you won't be able to use. Is this correct or am I mistaken here?

You are correct, which is why I do not recommend the LCD2690WUXi for screen/web-based photo editing. It is not as suitable as the LCD2490WUXi which is excellent for the same purpose. It's vital that people realize that before spending $1200 on an LCD.

Color space is not really a function of the LUT. It depends on the phosphors of the backlight and these can not be modified.

The only thing you can do is show "wide gamut" colors on a brightness curve of "sRGB" which doesn't do you that much good. After calibrating to sRGB (gamma, not color space) in SVII software, my LCD2690WUXi is obviously more saturated than my 20WMGX2 with a 72% ~= sRGB backlight, after calibration. That's because the 20WMGX2 is more accurate and probably better for screen photo work than the LCD2690WUXi is.

I think people are under the assumption you can just choose sRGB in your calibration software and you're good to go. NO! The calibration software does not emulate color spaces and never will. In fact, it doesn't even know if your monitor is wide gamut or not unless you're using special software like SpectraView. In the case of SpectraView, there is still no color space emulation going on because it is not possible without huge bit depth restrictions. It doesn't allow it even given this, although Firefox 3 and Photoshop/other photo editing programs will emulate gamut decently well. It's still better to use a 72% native LCD.

When the profile validation takes place, it will return low deltaE values for your supposed sRGB calibration. What you don't realize is that these are measuring how well your wide gamut backlight conforms to sRGB gamma, and they completely disregard how well your monitor truly matches the sRGB color space. A deltaE of 0.40 here is more like 10.00 in reality.

It is clearly stated in the software that sRGB is only a gamma setting, but this idea still needs reinforcing IMO since people also associate "sRGB" with the color space: 72% of NTSC. When your digital camera gives you a profile of sRGB it means the color space. The camera has its own tonal response curve (gamma) anyways but usually this is close to sRGB gamma too.

I believe the Samsung XL20 has a color space restriction feature (still emulation) for sRGB. I'm not absolutely sure about that, though.

Also some users report that 26'' screens have problems with panel uniformity? Anyone noticed that with 2690? And the last thing - is it suitable for games? I have read mixed opinions on this. I assume that it's not as goos as NEC's famous 20'' model though.

Thank's a lot for your answers.

Panel uniformity is a little lousy but the panel is easily usable even with the uniformity compensation features off. I only recommend uniformity compensation if you edit photos everyday. Otherwise, the extra contrast you get from leaving it off will be beneficial. I haven't even found uniformity compensation to reduce corner backlight bleeding for me. It's not that useful IMO. It can compensate for differences in the middle of the screen, though.

Even with an all black screen, the amount of backlight bleeding is very minimal and comparable to the NEC 20WMGX2.

For gaming, the 20WMGX2 is probably better because of faster response time/less input lag. But the LCD2690WUXi sure is a thrill to play on if you have a fast video card.

 

[najames]

Thanks xtknight, I'll take a look at it tonight.

FYI - Envy works nice for installing drivers AFAIK, but it doesn't touch any settings.

I am about ready to either try one of the Nvidia 6600 cards I have, or buy a new one. This resolution stuff should be relatively simple, like WinXP.

Recent ATI Linux drivers were borked, didn't help matters for sure. They make me feel like a beta tester. New ones seem to have dual monitors working, finally fixed rsolutions above 1280x1024, not sure about video yet.

I'm not sure Nvida NView is working any better now in Linux either . DOH.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulleti...c406c7176334d8f23&f=14

 

[zod96]

How is the HP W1907 ? I just saw it at Frys and it looked awesome what kind of panel is it and how good is it really xtknight

 

[Trean]

For those that care:

Ran through the gauntlet with TechOnWeb. They do not ship to addresses that are not listed with or on credit card. Which is hard to do with my debit card that is just credit backed. Anyways, long story short I now "reside" at where I ship stuff to... even though I don't and all my mailings still go back to my actual address. Its the only way my bank would allow two different addresses.

Anyways, I got an email that my order was canceled because I did just say go ahead and cancel it... then I called my bank and switched everything and called TechOnWeb back and told them not to cancel it. So I don't really know if it is or isn't canceled at the moment haha.

The same person seems to work for billing, sales, and care department at techonweb because no matter which phone option I chose I always ended up with him.

I also ordered a bunch of cables from monoprice and a receiver from vanns for those that care too .

 

[dragon57]

Ahhh! I have too much information .

First, I currently have a 19" crt that is on its last legs. I also just turned 50 and the eyes are not what they once were. I have been looking at the lcd's available at the local big box stores and can't figure out all the dot pitch specs I have and how that relates to text size on the different size widescreen panels. I like the looks and size of the 24" wide screen panels, but have no idea how the text at native resolution on these panels will be big enough for me. Note: I normally run 1280x1024 on my 19" crt.

Can someone educate me on these things?

Finally, thanks for all the info and feedback in this thread.

 

[czajunia]

Thank's xtknight. Great piece of info.

Originally posted by: xtknight You are correct, which is why I do not recommend the LCD2690WUXi for screen/web-based photo editing. It is not as suitable as the LCD2490WUXi which is excellent for the same purpose. It's vital that people realize that before spending $1200 on an LCD.

After reading lots info about NEC's monitors I kind of knew that but as 2490 is not available in UK and I could lay my hands on 2690 for a reasonable price I thought it was worth a go but I am not sure anymore.

I think people are under the assumption you can just choose sRGB in your calibration software and you're good to go. NO! The calibration software does not emulate color spaces and never will. In fact, it doesn't even know if your monitor is wide gamut or not unless you're using special software like SpectraView. In the case of SpectraView, there is still no color space emulation going on because it is not possible without huge bit depth restrictions. It doesn't allow it even given this, although Firefox 3 and Photoshop/other photo editing programs will emulate gamut decently well. It's still better to use a 72% native LCD.

Well... I thought and probably most people do that you could change to sRGB mode in the monitor's menu and then 2490 would behave like a normal sRGB monitor which clearly is not true. If that was correct you would simply pay premium for internal LUT which you wouldn't use but still had a normal sRGB panel.

When the profile validation takes place, it will return low deltaE values for your supposed sRGB calibration. What you don't realize is that these are measuring how well your wide gamut backlight conforms to sRGB gamma, and they completely disregard how well your monitor truly matches the sRGB color space. A deltaE of 0.40 here is more like 10.00 in reality.

And this is just unbelievable - I had no idea that it could be so inaccurate. Well... It just confirms what we said before.

Panel uniformity is a little lousy but the panel is easily usable even with the uniformity compensation features off. I only recommend uniformity compensation if you edit photos everyday. Otherwise, the extra contrast you get from leaving it off will be beneficial. I haven't even found uniformity compensation to reduce corner backlight bleeding for me. It's not that useful IMO. It can compensate for differences in the middle of the screen, though.

That's a bit weird for the guys at prad.de reported that after switching this on they managed to get almost 100% uniformity - the deviation was like 1.3%. Every monitor differs and that's why I don't like to rely on one review only and always look for some more opinions.

For gaming, the 20WMGX2 is probably better because of faster response time/less input lag. But the LCD2690WUXi sure is a thrill to play on if you have a fast video card.

I bet it is - the sheer size of the screen must be awesome.

One more question. Have you had any problems with a noise coming from your monitor? There were plenty of people complaining about this. Apparently it was unbearable and some associated it with European models only but not sure if this is is correct.

Thank's again for your answer.

 

[najames]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: najames
xtknight, your a Ubuntu user. I've used Ubuntu since Warty and now have some Ubuntu PCs, a Mint Daryna (Gutsy based), a CentOS server, etc. I like Mint even though it is 32bit because stuff just works out of the box, looks great, and my wife even likes it, a big plus!!

My only real grip with Linux (aside from "video drivers") is changing monitors or trying to add refresh rates, etc. How do you generate new profiles for monitors? I've used Linux for years and it seems like it is a pain in the butt every time. I did a dpkg reconfigure command last night and puked into low grapphics mode afterwards, no w2207 monitor in their list either, kind of expected. I used the menu it popped up in low graphics mode to tell it I have a 1680x1050 widscreen monitor and it just went back to using my 1280x1024 settings anyway. I found someone else with the same onboard x1250 ATI graphics, same HP w2207 monitor and pasted in his graphics settings in my /etc/X11/xorg.conf file and it puked. I have jacked around with the mode settings, adding a 1680x1050 setting and still no go. There has to be an easier way to do this that I'm unaware of.

My NVIDIA (closed-source) drivers make it a cinch if you can get X to startup at all.

Basically you run "gksu nvidia-settings" to open the NVIDIA control panel, and then press Detect Displays. Then Save to X Config and Ctrl+Alt+Backspace. Then everything should work. You can customize it from there. It even works great for dual monitor setups.

Are you using fglrx (closed-source) drivers for your X1250? I'd recommend that as the closed-source ones tend to work with monitors and DDC better. And ATI might have a similar tool, I'm not sure.

If you're using the open source ones you might try ddcprobe to get the frequency ranges.


andy@andy-desktop:~$ sudo ddcprobe | grep monitorrange
monitorrange: 31-92, 50-85

You can insert these in xorg.conf although I forget the exact cmds since I've just been using nvidia-settings to configure my stuff. Here, the first range is horizontal and second is vertical. Horizontal is in kHz, vertical in Hz.

You might have to generate a modeline for your LCD.

$ gtf 1680 1050 60
(general timing formula)

Modeline "1680x1050_60.00" 147.14 1680 1784 1968 2256 1050 1051 1054 1087 -HSync +Vsync

For a 1680x1050@60 Hz modeline. Then you put this in the monitor section of your xorg.conf. Then you might have to add "1680x1050_60.00" to "Modes" as well.

If your monitor has corrupt EDID (doubtful), you can use IgnoreEDID=TRUE and UseEDID=FALSE at least for NVIDIA drivers.

Thanks for the info, I'd think the same thing but I have been trying to use the FGLRX drivers, they puke trying to install no matter what I try. If I following the Ubuntu ATI howto for Gutsy, it aborts. It also likes to copy my xorg.conf to a backup then leave me without an xorg.conf file altogether, grrrr. I tried running the reconfigure and it basically does nothing. If I try to change the monitor in the screen resolution, and try to test it, all see is a garbled screen, then it reverts back to the standard 1280x1024 and Mesa driver. It's acts like it doesn't have a clue what the x1250 onboard video is. I'll try something else tonight.

http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.p...tsy_Installation_Guide

EDIT: bahh thought about this, gotta be the HDMI port on the Biostar TA690G causing problems, known to Linux since the chipset is supported in the ATI driver. I'll check settings in the BIOS tonight after work.

 

[czajunia]

Originally posted by: xtknightBut the LCD2690WUXi sure is a thrill to play on if you have a fast video card.

One more thing regarding gaming on this monitor. As most of the games (all of them at the moment I suppose) are not (and won't be for a while) color managed what do the colors look like? I've read and this seems to be obvious that they are over saturated. How bad is it? Do you know if there are any examples available on the net? I mean pictures of the same object taken on WG monitor using non-color manged software and normal monitor. Maybe you have some pictures of the same game displayed on your both NECs? I guess the same question applies to watching the movies. Are there any color managed DVD player applications for Win that are actually color aware?
Thank's!

 

[redlinez33]

I went to sams club and bought another 245BW to see if it would be any better than my old one, and IT IS. My old one had a slight redish tint to it, new one has pure whites. Old one had slight backlight bleeding, new one had even less, and at the brightness I run it has NO backlight bleeding. Old one had 1 dead pixel, new one has NONE. YAY So far I am happy.

One from costco is going to be returned. It also seems Samsclub has either a 6month, or a 1 year return policy! which is great........

With this new monitor, 245BW>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FHD2400 = w2408H

No doubt, 245BW is the king of 24" TN panels.

 

[krilonx]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: krilonx
Thank you very much for your advices! I don't need it especialy for gaming , but for its colors accuracy and lower price. And its fast image delay I think its very welcome for me
I need an 19" 5:4 TN panel LCD with good colors. Of course, I'm not expected it to be better than an IPS or VA, the more expensive ones
I checked your 19" LCD recommendations and this was good for Office work and Multimedia, too. I need it a lot for web surfing at this moment.
This is my first LCD monitor and I'm making a transition from an old, heavy Dell Trinitron of 17", with superb colors of course, but not in its best condition for clear text. Maybe I'll use them both if I have enough space

Now I'm searching something about LG's pixel warranty, but, again, it's hard(er) to find
I would also consider of buying Philips, Samsung or another producer's 19" TN LCD, if they have better colors than this LG L1970HR-BF, at a similar price, but I think not Of course good text and images or diagrams legibility is also very important.

Thank you again for you support!

I'm really sorry if you mentioned this earlier but were the Samsung 971P or ViewSonic VP930b 19" VA panels unsuitable for some reason? The HP LP1965 is another possibility. I'd like to say all these VA panels would be superior, especially the 971P.

Pixel policies often vary per country. Are you in the US? If so it's probably just as bad as all the other policies here (at least 4-6 dead pixels).

I don't think these TN LCDs will come close to your Trinitron.

I think the L1970HR is a good bet but here are other options.

The Samsung 932B Plus looks good (probably better than L1970HR): http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/re.../samsung_932b_plus.htm

The L1960TQ is another decent option: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/lg_l1960tq.htm

Thank you again for your informations!
I'm not in the US. Here prices, in local currency (VTA included), are higher. For example:

Samsung 971P is ~$550
ViewSonic VP930 is ~$500
HP LP1965 is ~$430
LG L1970HR is ~$380
Samsung 932B(+) is ~$351
Samsung 932BF is ~$386
LG L1960TQ cannot be found
(Philips 190C8FS is ~$304)

Samsung 932B+ seems a lot better than LG L1960TQ, and also better image than LG L1970HR.

The difference between Samsung 932B and 932B+ is just the Digital Contrast?
But are 932B+ and 932BF the same? I have contradictory informations from samsung.com. It seems that they have the same design, even that samsung.com messed the 932BF's picture:
http://www.samsung.com/nl/prod...tors/economy/932bf.asp
http://www.samsung.com/my/prod...sp?page=Specifications

The bad part concerning this model is its glossy, "reflection-friendly" design, fragile, instable aspect and I don't know if its 10 degrees tilt is enough

(Default and after calibration values of) (LG L1970HR) (Samsung 932B+) (LG L1960TQ)
(Average Delta E) (15.89?2.66) (2.8...0.9) (3.5...1.1)
(Maximum Delta E) (?...?) (5.9? 2.5) (6.3?2.0)
(Black depth [cd/m2]) (?...0.45) (0.27...0.14) (0.70...0.30)
(Contrast) (?...620:1) (1000:1...850:1) (297:1...403:1)

Sources:
http://translate.google.com/tr...%3D20%26%23entry522351
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/re.../samsung_932b_plus.htm
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/lg_l1960tq.htm

It seems that data for LG L1970HR isn?t too acurate, not beeing used LaCie Blue Eye Pro in this case. Also in the first link page, ViewSonic VX922 (which? has a 19 inch 2 ms (g2g) TN panel? ? flatpanels.dk) is told to have 8.17?3.03 Delta E, before and after calibration, but, on another website, I?ve found a lot better results: 5.5?0.7 (http://www.behardware.com/arti...-6-8-ms-and-above.html)
So this means that this TN LCD has better color reproduction than Samsung 932B+ (with 0.9) ?

Anyway, I'm impressed by 932 B+ values. But it seems hard to identify it, and not confusing it with B or BF, which might even be the same model, I don?t know. And the reflection problem put me thinking? I don?t understand why they chose that glossy, piano design, not thinking about the possible problems.

What would it be your opinion about Samsung 940N, comparing to those? It seems really the most popular 19? LCD here. It looks regular, and I can?t find professional reviews about it, as it really could?ve been my point of reference. I?m almost sure it isn?t even closely as good as those ones. Its colors look typically poor for an TN LCD, though a little more concentrated, saturated, yellowish than some other ones, but worse than Philips 190C8FS, with PerfecTune. Maybe Samsung 932B+ has a even better quality image.

Philips 190C8FS has a lot better design though, and a tilt of -2?20 degrees, instead of Samsung 932B?s <10 degrees.

Side by side comparison:
http://www.prad.de/en/guide/er...der=asc&Submit=compare

I can?t figure out which is better

Philips has different panels, I think, for this 190C8FS model: 190C8FS/00, sold in most of the European countries (including UK), and 190C7FS/05, sold only in UK. Now I see that United States isn?t on that list!
http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi..._CA&grp=PC_PRODUCTS_GR

The product presentation seems convincing:
?The very best in LCD display
An all new viewing experience! With SmartImage and SmartContrast for crystal clear pictures plus PerfecTune for quality-assured display, the 190C8 delivers the ultimate in display performance.?
?PerfecTune
PerfecTune is industry-leading, proprietary Philips testing and algorithm technology for monitor adjustment and fine tuning, an extensive process that ensures ultimate display performance in compliance with a standard four-times more stringent than Microsoft's Vista requirements from each and every monitor that leaves the factory - not just a few review samples. Only Philips goes to these lengths to deliver this exacting level of colour accuracy and display quality in every new monitor.?

I don?t understand why this model is missing on both flatpanels.dk and tftcentral.co.uk, not even in the ?Panel Search? list.

Philips 190C8FS is priced here ~$304. I don?t know why it is at this lower price (for example, Samsung 932B+ is ~$350-380, and Samsung 971P is ~$550)

The big problem with my current, old monitor is the text readability and I can?t afford of having even the smallest problem with this issue anymore. And, of course, I?m searching for decent realistic colors, at a lower (TN panel) price.

I hope I?ll finally come to a decision in 1 or 2 days.

Thank you again for your support!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: zod96
How is the HP W1907 ? I just saw it at Frys and it looked awesome what kind of panel is it and how good is it really xtknight

I don't know much about this one to be honest. TN panel though.

Originally posted by: dragon57
Ahhh! I have too much information .

First, I currently have a 19" crt that is on its last legs. I also just turned 50 and the eyes are not what they once were. I have been looking at the lcd's available at the local big box stores and can't figure out all the dot pitch specs I have and how that relates to text size on the different size widescreen panels. I like the looks and size of the 24" wide screen panels, but have no idea how the text at native resolution on these panels will be big enough for me. Note: I normally run 1280x1024 on my 19" crt.

Can someone educate me on these things?

Finally, thanks for all the info and feedback in this thread.

This is hard to know because the dot pitch also varies on 19" CRTs. Do you have a pixel-per-inch (dpi) reading for yours? Or the exact model?

Additionally, since a 19" CRT is 1600x1200 native (or higher) usually, you are actually increasing dpi when you are lowering the resolution. The "native" or "physical" resolution of a CRT is determined by the resolution of its shadow mask.

The best option may be to check out the options at your local store. Even if the monitors that have on display are poor viewing angle wise or whatever else, the text size will be exactly the same for any monitor of that given size. You just have to make sure that they're running at native resolution. This can be checked in the display properties for whatever computer you're looking at, or in the setup menu of the monitor.

17": 1280x1024
17" wide: 1440x900
19": 1280x1024
19" wide: 1440x900
20.1": 1600x1200
20.1" wide: 1680x1050
21.3": 1600x1200
21" wide: 1680x1050
22" wide: 1680x1050
23" wide: 1920x1200
24" wide: 1920x1200
25.5" (26") wide: 1920x1200
27"-28" wide: 1920x1200
30" wide: 2560x1600

The monitors for which these native resolutions are not true, are probably not on display at the store. You can use the above list to verify that each monitor you look at is running at native res. If it's not running at native, obviously it won't be a good test unless you really plan on using the LCD scaling for lower resolutions. This can be straining on the eyes.

For example, look at a 19" LCD at the store. Ensure it's running at 1280x1024 (as you will want to run it), and make sure the Windows DPI setting is the same as your PC at home (72 dpi unless you use "large fonts"). If you think the text size is acceptable, then just buy or order the 19" of your choice.

And by the way, the dot pitch of a 17" (standard aspect, not wide) screen is fairly similar to a 24" wide. So, you can check 17" LCDs if you want to see if a 24" is suitable for you. A 24" will have slightly larger text, but if you think a 17" LCD is fine for you then a 24" definitely will be.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: czajunia
I bet it is - the sheer size of the screen must be awesome.

One more question. Have you had any problems with a noise coming from your monitor? There were plenty of people complaining about this. Apparently it was unbearable and some associated it with European models only but not sure if this is is correct.

Thank's again for your answer.

I don't have a noise from mine that I can tell. My NEC 20WMGX2 makes a squealing noise on standby mode, but I don't hear much from my LCD2690WUXi.

It's really hard to tell, there might be a slight buzzing but certainly nothing "unbearable". I think that was fixed in newer revs.

Originally posted by: czajunia
One more thing regarding gaming on this monitor. As most of the games (all of them at the moment I suppose) are not (and won't be for a while) color managed what do the colors look like? I've read and this seems to be obvious that they are over saturated. How bad is it? Do you know if there are any examples available on the net? I mean pictures of the same object taken on WG monitor using non-color manged software and normal monitor. Maybe you have some pictures of the same game displayed on your both NECs? I guess the same question applies to watching the movies. Are there any color managed DVD player applications for Win that are actually color aware?
Thank's!

I talk a lot about this in my upcoming review so you may just wait for that, but I can provide you with a few factoids:

DVD players aren't color managed. Movies will appear more vibrant. Generally not that big of a problem though. They still look incredible or even more so.

Games aren't color managed either. The only things that are color managed are web browsers in some cases and photo programs. I don't even think video programs are color managed although this may have changed.

Games look incredible on this monitor but I'll try and get a few std. gamut vs. wide gamut shots for my review. Hope this helps.

Yes this monitor, at times, can look annoyingly oversaturated in a few cases. Not necessarily burning oversaturated but just "off" or very punchy I suppose. It's worth it for all the other material that looks great on it. Unless of course, you're photo editing for web. Really sRGB may not appear as bad as I said on this LCD but you'll probably want to look elsewhere if that's the main purpose.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: najames
Thanks for the info, I'd think the same thing but I have been trying to use the FGLRX drivers, they puke trying to install no matter what I try. If I following the Ubuntu ATI howto for Gutsy, it aborts. It also likes to copy my xorg.conf to a backup then leave me without an xorg.conf file altogether, grrrr. I tried running the reconfigure and it basically does nothing. If I try to change the monitor in the screen resolution, and try to test it, all see is a garbled screen, then it reverts back to the standard 1280x1024 and Mesa driver. It's acts like it doesn't have a clue what the x1250 onboard video is. I'll try something else tonight.

http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.p...tsy_Installation_Guide

EDIT: bahh thought about this, gotta be the HDMI port on the Biostar TA690G causing problems, known to Linux since the chipset is supported in the ATI driver. I'll check settings in the BIOS tonight after work.

You should probably ask in #ubuntu irc.freenode.net I idle there (sometimes) as xtknight so you can leave me a msg too I can try and help you with it.

Maybe you should consider an NVIDIA card too. NV drivers are still better on Linux even though that forum is clogged with complaints.

 

[Gunlance]

So I am sitting in front of my brand new samsung 215TW right now!

Input lag was noticeable right from the get-go. It's as if my mouse was floating, of course I had been using a CRT for the past two days. Playing around with the pointer speeds in the windows control panel fixed a lot of it. My mouse is a logitech G5 and I will get used to this bit of a floaty mouse now, when I turned up to 2000dpi it's barely noticeable. But at the comfortable regular dpi setting it's kind of annoying so far. After some practice and regular use at my PC I am sure I won't notice anymore. Over at the Hard forums people said that playing with the HZ settings would help also. Any truth to that?

So far, I am just blown away by the quality. This is a great monitor everything looks so good, more crisp, sharper, and colors are way better. The angle of view is stellar compared to what I did have. However when I was viewing a power point slide at the end of the slide the whole screen was black and I noticed from all four corners what I believe was back light bleed. Like all the corners shot out a cone of it.

I tried seeing a guide about how to set up the monitor correctly but there isn't anything on the first page of this thread. What do you guys suggest I do? I would really like a way to see if that was bad backlight bleed or if it was just normal for my model of monitor.

EDIT:
I just popped in a Widescreen Formated DVD, and definitely I think what I am noticing is some bad backlighting..... : ( I will try and take a digital picture. Argh I just loathe the idea of returning the monitor and hope for better one. The angle of my viewing also changes how bad the back light is.