[Retired] The LCD Thread

[dragon57]

xtknight, thanks for the dpi/panel size info and recommendations. What you said makes plenty sense. It sounds like it is time to hit the stores and harass some sales people . I am sure once I have more info, I will have more questions.

 

[ATUCutter]

I have been searching for a good LCD monitor for awhile now that would suit my gaming needs and my work needs. I work at home and am on my computer a lot, when I have some free time I like to play a good first person shooter (which are hard to come by these days on the PC, but that is another story )I have been looking at this thread for over a month now and there is just a plethora of information in here, thanks to xtknight and other knowledgable individuals. Thanks again.

Money is the restrictive factor for me. If it wasn't I would be grabbing the Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC or the UltraSharp WFP2007 which Dell no longer carries on their home site.

Now I will cut to the chase after all of this babbling I am seriously considering this monitor NEC AccuSync ASLCD223WXM I'm positive it isn't a IPS panel for the size and price ($269.99) but it is listed as having a horizontal and vertical viewing angles of 176 ! How do they do that on a TN? This thing has been out for awhile now and I am finding very little information on it, e.g. reviews from actual buyers, tech reviews. There are a few on Newegg and Dell but not many.

It is only on sale at Dell for one more day, if anyone has any info on this or owns it, or would simply like to talk me in or out of it please feel free. I appreciate any help. I want to make sure it will be good enough for reflex gaming but still have good color and very clear text when working.

NEC LCD223WXM product page tech specs

Thanks in advance !!

 

[Engraver]

Originally posted by: ATUCutter
I have been searching for a good LCD monitor for awhile now that would suit my gaming needs and my work needs. I work at home and am on my computer a lot, when I have some free time I like to play a good first person shooter (which are hard to come by these days on the PC, but that is another story )I have been looking at this thread for over a month now and there is just a plethora of information in here, thanks to xtknight and other knowledgable individuals. Thanks again.

Money is the restrictive factor for me. If it wasn't I would be grabbing the Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC or the UltraSharp WFP2007 which Dell no longer carries on their home site.

Now I will cut to the chase after all of this babbling I am seriously considering this monitor NEC AccuSync ASLCD223WXM I'm positive it isn't a IPS panel for the size and price ($269.99) but it is listed as having a horizontal and vertical viewing angles of 176 ! How do they do that on a TN? This thing has been out for awhile now and I am finding very little information on it, e.g. reviews from actual buyers, tech reviews. There are a few on Newegg and Dell but not many.

It is only on sale at Dell for one more day, if anyone has any info on this or owns it, or would simply like to talk me in or out of it please feel free. I appreciate any help. I want to make sure it will be good enough for reflex gaming but still have good color and very clear text when working.

NEC LCD223WXM product page tech specs

Thanks in advance !!

The 223WXM is a TN, they just get creative about the viewing angles.

 

[Engraver]

My Planar PX2611W came in yesterday. It didn't have the wow factor like when I first went from CRT to the NEC 20WMGX2, but it is still a very good monitor.

The best way to sum it up is that is is a 26" 20WMGX2, with slightly better color, brighter, anti-glare coat and a different casing. The input lag, or lack thereof, feels exactly the same as the 20WMGX2. I'd recommend it if you don't already have a 20WMGX2, and want a 1920x1200 IPS gaming monitor.

The OSD is very similar to the 20WMGX2 that you navigate with a similar joystick button. I've seen complaints about the joystick, but I haven't had any problems with it.

The backlight is fairly uniform, with some slight bleeding at the top and saturation in the middle. It isn't noticeable on anything but a black background.

Personally, I'm still debating whether to keep it or not. Other than size and resolution, it isn't really a major upgrade from the 20WMGX2. That, and it came with 2 stuck pixels about 3 inches off-center (trying to get it exchanged). My 20WMGX2 was a refurbished replacement for my original, but I didn't care since it has zero defects (compared to the severe black light bleeding of my first one). If I can get one without any stuck or dead pixels, I think I'll keep it.

 

[najames]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: najames
Thanks for the info, I'd think the same thing but I have been trying to use the FGLRX drivers, they puke trying to install no matter what I try. If I following the Ubuntu ATI howto for Gutsy, it aborts. It also likes to copy my xorg.conf to a backup then leave me without an xorg.conf file altogether, grrrr. I tried running the reconfigure and it basically does nothing. If I try to change the monitor in the screen resolution, and try to test it, all see is a garbled screen, then it reverts back to the standard 1280x1024 and Mesa driver. It's acts like it doesn't have a clue what the x1250 onboard video is. I'll try something else tonight.

http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.p...tsy_Installation_Guide

EDIT: bahh thought about this, gotta be the HDMI port on the Biostar TA690G causing problems, known to Linux since the chipset is supported in the ATI driver. I'll check settings in the BIOS tonight after work.

You should probably ask in #ubuntu irc.freenode.net I idle there (sometimes) as xtknight so you can leave me a msg too I can try and help you with it.

Maybe you should consider an NVIDIA card too. NV drivers are still better on Linux even though that forum is clogged with complaints.

I have went through everything humanly possible with installing fglrx on this system. It is impossible on this PC using the current or recent drivers. Any change in resolutions is met with a patterned garbage screen. It does it with ANY driver or with a reconfigure too. I ripped out a Nvidia 6600 from another PC, but it won't fit in my Microfly case because the passive heatpipes hit a brace, DOH.

Now you can get back on the monitor path. Sorry for the interruption.

If I get a new Nvidia card, I'll know where to contact you!!! This is the kind of crap I am getting.

Xorg.0.log

(EE) AIGLX error: dlsym for __driCreateNewScreen_20050727 failed (/usr/lib/dri/fglrx_dri.so: undefined symbol:

__driCreateNewScreen_20050727)

(EE) AIGLX: reverting to software rendering

Xorg.9.log

(EE) fglrx(0): === [swlDalHelperAddCustomizeMode] === CWDDEDI_DisplayGetSetModeTimingOverride failed: 7

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: krilonx
Thank you again for your informations!
I'm not in the US. Here prices, in local currency (VTA included), are higher. For example:

Samsung 971P is ~$550
ViewSonic VP930 is ~$500
HP LP1965 is ~$430
LG L1970HR is ~$380
Samsung 932B(+) is ~$351
Samsung 932BF is ~$386
LG L1960TQ cannot be found
(Philips 190C8FS is ~$304)

Samsung 932B+ seems a lot better than LG L1960TQ, and also better image than LG L1970HR.

The difference between Samsung 932B and 932B+ is just the Digital Contrast?
But are 932B+ and 932BF the same? I have contradictory informations from samsung.com. It seems that they have the same design, even that samsung.com messed the 932BF's picture:
http://www.samsung.com/nl/prod...tors/economy/932bf.asp
http://www.samsung.com/my/prod...sp?page=Specifications

The 932BF is a different model than the 932B. Here are 932B specs: http://www.samsung.com/my/prod...sp?page=Specifications

Yes, dynamic contrast looks like the only difference to me, like mentioned in the TFT Central review.

The bad part concerning this model is its glossy, "reflection-friendly" design, fragile, instable aspect and I don't know if its 10 degrees tilt is enough

Well, the 932B isn't glossy although the 932B+ is.

(Default and after calibration values of) (LG L1970HR) (Samsung 932B+) (LG L1960TQ)
(Average Delta E) (15.89?2.66) (2.8...0.9) (3.5...1.1)
(Maximum Delta E) (?...?) (5.9? 2.5) (6.3?2.0)
(Black depth [cd/m2]) (?...0.45) (0.27...0.14) (0.70...0.30)
(Contrast) (?...620:1) (1000:1...850:1) (297:1...403:1)

Sources:
http://translate.google.com/tr...%3D20%26%23entry522351
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/re.../samsung_932b_plus.htm
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/lg_l1960tq.htm

It seems that data for LG L1970HR isn?t too acurate, not beeing used LaCie Blue Eye Pro in this case. Also in the first link page, ViewSonic VX922 (which? has a 19 inch 2 ms (g2g) TN panel? ? flatpanels.dk) is told to have 8.17?3.03 Delta E, before and after calibration, but, on another website, I?ve found a lot better results: 5.5?0.7 (http://www.behardware.com/arti...-6-8-ms-and-above.html)
So this means that this TN LCD has better color reproduction than Samsung 932B+ (with 0.9) ?

I doubt that this is true. It's hard to compare results across sites though. Actually that makes it nearly impossible to determine which TN LCD is the best, because all the sites give varying results.

Anyway, I'm impressed by 932 B+ values. But it seems hard to identify it, and not confusing it with B or BF, which might even be the same model, I don?t know. And the reflection problem put me thinking? I don?t understand why they chose that glossy, piano design, not thinking about the possible problems.

Only the bezel is glossy by the way but yes it is irritating.

What would it be your opinion about Samsung 940N, comparing to those? It seems really the most popular 19? LCD here. It looks regular, and I can?t find professional reviews about it, as it really could?ve been my point of reference. I?m almost sure it isn?t even closely as good as those ones. Its colors look typically poor for an TN LCD, though a little more concentrated, saturated, yellowish than some other ones, but worse than Philips 190C8FS, with PerfecTune. Maybe Samsung 932B+ has a even better quality image.

I bet the 932B+ is better. But like I say it's hard to know without a gamma graph (which you can get from X-Bit Labs or PRAD for the models they have reviewed).

Philips 190C8FS has a lot better design though, and a tilt of -2?20 degrees, instead of Samsung 932B?s <10 degrees.

Side by side comparison:
http://www.prad.de/en/guide/er...der=asc&Submit=compare

I can?t figure out which is better

Philips has different panels, I think, for this 190C8FS model: 190C8FS/00, sold in most of the European countries (including UK), and 190C7FS/05, sold only in UK. Now I see that United States isn?t on that list!
http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi..._CA&grp=PC_PRODUCTS_GR

The product presentation seems convincing:
?The very best in LCD display
An all new viewing experience! With SmartImage and SmartContrast for crystal clear pictures plus PerfecTune for quality-assured display, the 190C8 delivers the ultimate in display performance.?
?PerfecTune
PerfecTune is industry-leading, proprietary Philips testing and algorithm technology for monitor adjustment and fine tuning, an extensive process that ensures ultimate display performance in compliance with a standard four-times more stringent than Microsoft's Vista requirements from each and every monitor that leaves the factory - not just a few review samples. Only Philips goes to these lengths to deliver this exacting level of colour accuracy and display quality in every new monitor.?

I don?t understand why this model is missing on both flatpanels.dk and tftcentral.co.uk, not even in the ?Panel Search? list.

Philips 190C8FS is priced here ~$304. I don?t know why it is at this lower price (for example, Samsung 932B+ is ~$350-380, and Samsung 971P is ~$550)

The big problem with my current, old monitor is the text readability and I can?t afford of having even the smallest problem with this issue anymore. And, of course, I?m searching for decent realistic colors, at a lower (TN panel) price.

I hope I?ll finally come to a decision in 1 or 2 days.

Thank you again for your support!

It looks like you should stick to the Samsung 932B+. I'm reasonably sure it offers good color performance. The L1970HR is decent too, but I really don't think there's much difference between these two. These are better newer generation TNs. Just go by design with the TNs you came up with. Or, get a cheaper one and go with a $100 colorimeter like the Huey Pro (not Huey regular) or Sypder2 Express. That's the best option.

 

[redlinez33]

I have two 245BW hooked up side by side right now and it amazes me how different they are for being the same model number... Both monitors are made in mexico, one is made in sept, other is made is august......

AUGUST: Brighter, truer whites from the factory, slightly bluer tint in dark scenes, very little backlight bleeding and no dead pixels

SEPT: Red tint to whites, slight backlight bleed and a dead pixel, not as much blue tint in dark scenes, SLIGHTLY RICHER COLORS.

Few things here surprise me. How much brighter one is over the other and the slightly richer color the other has..................... Its almost like they use different panels (LG? SAMSUNG?) or is this just a normal difference each one can be? I understand why you have to buy a hardware calibrator and not rely on other peoples settings they use.........

Very weird, I wonder what causes this difference.......

 

[czajunia]

Anyone heard about these?
Daewoo 30''
Daewoo 24''

I assume that 24'' is a *PV panel judging by the price. What about 30''? Any chances for IPS here? What do you think. Has anyone used Daewoo monitors? Are they any good?

 

[SCCA Racer X]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: czajunia
NEC 2690WUXi

I have read some opinions that wide gamut monitors are not the best for regular use, can cause more trouble than offer benefits and are generally recommended for people who work with wide gamut supporting applications all the time. How does it work with 2690? Apparently it is impossible to program monitor's LUT to use in a standard color gamut. So if you want to use basic color space you pay premium for some features you won't be able to use. Is this correct or am I mistaken here?

You are correct, which is why I do not recommend the LCD2690WUXi for screen/web-based photo editing. It is not as suitable as the LCD2490WUXi which is excellent for the same purpose. It's vital that people realize that before spending $1200 on an LCD.

I am wondering about this question as well, and it occurred to me it might be useful to compare the LCD gamuts relative to CRTs. Are wide gamut LCD monitors closer to the CRT gamut than other LCDs, or not? I think this would put things more in perspective for me.

If normal (72%?) gamut LCDs are a smaller subset of the CRT gamut than wide gamut (90+%) LCDs, then I would feel comfortable with a wide gamut LCD. On the other hand, if a wide gamut LCD exceeds the gamut of a CRT by an appreciable amount, then that could present a problem. Does this make sense?

Can anyone rank the relative color space by display type, and shed some light on the magnitude of the steps?

For example, hypothetically, since I don't know where CRTs rank, I would like to see something like:

(72% LCD) << (97% LCD) < (100% LCD) = CRT < (107% LCD)

 

[74Norton]

Like many here, I need a little advice on picking a 20-22" widescreen monitor. It will be used for basic email, web type stuff but I also will use it for photo processing (not professional). I'd like to keep in under $500 if possible. The only monitor listed in the photo editing group that fits this is the Samsung 215TW. The only place I've been able to find this monitor is at Tiger Direct ($430), and I've read mixed reviews about them.

Gunlance, where did you get your 216TW?

I'm also considering the Dell 2007WFP. All of the reviews I could find are for the S-IPS version. Are there any reviews of the PVA version? Any idea how the PVA version would compare to the 215TW? It runs $400 at Dell Small Business.

I could also just get one of the better 22" TN screens, but that opens another big can of worms! Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. And thanks to xtknight for all this great information!

 

[SCCA Racer X]

Originally posted by: SCCA Racer X
Can anyone rank the relative color space by display type, and shed some light on the magnitude of the steps?

I've been doing a little research on my own question, and it seems the % gamut number is meaningless without specifying which gamut you're referring to.

It seems the most relevant gamut is sRGB, which is the standard for "consumer electronic applications, such as digital cameras, PC operating systems, PC color monitors, and desktop printers.", according to NEC. Then, "Adobe RGB is an extended color space, promoted by Adobe, and which over time has become a de-facto standard in the professional color processing market." (again quoting NEC.) The red and blue ranges are close to sRGB, but the green range is considerably larger. Another popular one is the NTSC color space, which is the gamut of the North American analog TV broadcast standard. I get the feeling there are gamuts I haven't even heard of yet.

It appears to me that wide gamut monitors are targeting the Adobe RGB color space, for use in professional print production environments.

There are wide gamut CRTs, but the common CRT is designed for the sRGB gamut.

Needless to say, to get accurate colors, the gamut of the output device should match the gamut of the source.

So it would seem that the typical reader of this forum (including myself) should be looking for a monitor which conforms to 100% sRGB gamut if they want to see their digital photography, web, video and print work match their display. This implies that having wide gamut, or covering 100% NTSC or Adobe RGB color space, are not goals of a good consumer or office monitor.

Once again, I am amazed by the depth of detail there is to know, and how the assumption that "more is better" can be misleading.

I am curious to see for myself what the qualitative effect is of viewing sRGB images on a wide gamut monitor. Where can I see decent monitors on display near Chicago??? I'd like to see an HP LP2065 and a wide gamut monitor personally.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Gunlance
So I am sitting in front of my brand new samsung 215TW right now!

Input lag was noticeable right from the get-go. It's as if my mouse was floating, of course I had been using a CRT for the past two days. Playing around with the pointer speeds in the windows control panel fixed a lot of it. My mouse is a logitech G5 and I will get used to this bit of a floaty mouse now, when I turned up to 2000dpi it's barely noticeable. But at the comfortable regular dpi setting it's kind of annoying so far. After some practice and regular use at my PC I am sure I won't notice anymore. Over at the Hard forums people said that playing with the HZ settings would help also. Any truth to that?

Well, try it? Else, you'll probably get used to it after awhile.

So far, I am just blown away by the quality. This is a great monitor everything looks so good, more crisp, sharper, and colors are way better. The angle of view is stellar compared to what I did have. However when I was viewing a power point slide at the end of the slide the whole screen was black and I noticed from all four corners what I believe was back light bleed. Like all the corners shot out a cone of it.

I tried seeing a guide about how to set up the monitor correctly but there isn't anything on the first page of this thread. What do you guys suggest I do? I would really like a way to see if that was bad backlight bleed or if it was just normal for my model of monitor.

EDIT:
I just popped in a Widescreen Formated DVD, and definitely I think what I am noticing is some bad backlighting..... : ( I will try and take a digital picture. Argh I just loathe the idea of returning the monitor and hope for better one. The angle of my viewing also changes how bad the back light is.

There is one on my website lcdresource.com although it's down now (not sure why).

The 215TW is so good by default there's not much you can do anyways except get it to a comfortable brightness. Beyond, of course, finding an ICC profile for it or getting a colorimeter yourself.

If you think the backlight bleeding is bad you're probably right. You can always try exchanging for a refurb if you think that's worth it to you.

Originally posted by: redlinez33
I have two 245BW hooked up side by side right now and it amazes me how different they are for being the same model number... Both monitors are made in mexico, one is made in sept, other is made is august......

AUGUST: Brighter, truer whites from the factory, slightly bluer tint in dark scenes, very little backlight bleeding and no dead pixels

SEPT: Red tint to whites, slight backlight bleed and a dead pixel, not as much blue tint in dark scenes, SLIGHTLY RICHER COLORS.

Few things here surprise me. How much brighter one is over the other and the slightly richer color the other has..................... Its almost like they use different panels (LG? SAMSUNG?) or is this just a normal difference each one can be? I understand why you have to buy a hardware calibrator and not rely on other peoples settings they use.........

Very weird, I wonder what causes this difference.......

I doubt they use different panels but indeed I'm surprised they vary so much. It just goes to show you, people aren't joking when they say color profiles won't work on every unit. Maybe they made it more red to compensate for the blue tint on the earlier rev?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: czajunia
Anyone heard about these?
Daewoo 30''
Daewoo 24''

I assume that 24'' is a *PV panel judging by the price. What about 30''? Any chances for IPS here? What do you think. Has anyone used Daewoo monitors? Are they any good?

No idea.

Originally posted by: SCCA Racer X
I am wondering about this question as well, and it occurred to me it might be useful to compare the LCD gamuts relative to CRTs. Are wide gamut LCD monitors closer to the CRT gamut than other LCDs, or not? I think this would put things more in perspective for me.

If normal (72%?) gamut LCDs are a smaller subset of the CRT gamut than wide gamut (90+%) LCDs, then I would feel comfortable with a wide gamut LCD. On the other hand, if a wide gamut LCD exceeds the gamut of a CRT by an appreciable amount, then that could present a problem. Does this make sense?

If you mean the colors will be a LOT more vibrant than you're used to, then yes I suppose there could be a problem.

Can anyone rank the relative color space by display type, and shed some light on the magnitude of the steps?

For example, hypothetically, since I don't know where CRTs rank, I would like to see something like:

(72% LCD) << (97% LCD) < (100% LCD) = CRT < (107% LCD)

Standard phosphors on a CRT (P22) determine the gamut which, of a normal shadow mask CRT, is about 72%. Presumably this is where the sRGB standard came from.

Trinitron CRTs can reach around 100%. This is a little more than most "wide gamut LCD" backlights can reach. Samsung's wide gamut backlights reach a slightly wider gamut than competing WG CCFLs, as far as I know.

I'm not sure if there are any CRTs than can reach over 105% NTSC. CMO has a tech in the works called Hyper Chameleon which can reach upwards of 160% NTSC. I'm not sure exactly how it works but it soudns like it might adjust RGB components of the backlight dynamically to reach higher gamuts.

Why both a CRT and conventional LCDs happen to be 72% NTSC is beyond my scope of knowledge. It may be just by chance but both CCFLs and shadow masks use phosphors so perhaps the same ones are being used.

Originally posted by: 74Norton
Like many here, I need a little advice on picking a 20-22" widescreen monitor. It will be used for basic email, web type stuff but I also will use it for photo processing (not professional). I'd like to keep in under $500 if possible. The only monitor listed in the photo editing group that fits this is the Samsung 215TW. The only place I've been able to find this monitor is at Tiger Direct ($430), and I've read mixed reviews about them.

Gunlance, where did you get your 216TW?

I'm also considering the Dell 2007WFP. All of the reviews I could find are for the S-IPS version. Are there any reviews of the PVA version? Any idea how the PVA version would compare to the 215TW? It runs $400 at Dell Small Business.

The 215TW may have considerably better default color accuracy. The PVA included in the 2007WFP is a little subpar based off user reports.

I could also just get one of the better 22" TN screens, but that opens another big can of worms! Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. And thanks to xtknight for all this great information!

You probably want to stay away from TNs. Try the HP LP2065. You have a chance of getting an S-IPS or AMVA, and the AMVA isn't all that bad. I wish I could recommend you a widescreen monitor but I can't recommend something that doesn't exist. The Lenovo 22" (1920x1200) is a possibility but there are no pro reviews of it yet. The Eizo 22" S-PVA is very expensive (~$700). Might just be better off with a VX2435wm if you can find a good deal on it (~$500+).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: SCCA Racer X

Originally posted by: SCCA Racer X
Can anyone rank the relative color space by display type, and shed some light on the magnitude of the steps?

I've been doing a little research on my own question, and it seems the % gamut number is meaningless without specifying which gamut you're referring to.

It seems the most relevant gamut is sRGB, which is the standard for "consumer electronic applications, such as digital cameras, PC operating systems, PC color monitors, and desktop printers.", according to NEC. Then, "Adobe RGB is an extended color space, promoted by Adobe, and which over time has become a de-facto standard in the professional color processing market." (again quoting NEC.) The red and blue ranges are close to sRGB, but the green range is considerably larger. Another popular one is the NTSC color space, which is the gamut of the North American analog TV broadcast standard. I get the feeling there are gamuts I haven't even heard of yet.

It appears to me that wide gamut monitors are targeting the Adobe RGB color space, for use in professional print production environments.

There are wide gamut CRTs, but the common CRT is designed for the sRGB gamut.

Needless to say, to get accurate colors, the gamut of the output device should match the gamut of the source.

So it would seem that the typical reader of this forum (including myself) should be looking for a monitor which conforms to 100% sRGB gamut if they want to see their digital photography, web, video and print work match their display. This implies that having wide gamut, or covering 100% NTSC or Adobe RGB color space, are not goals of a good consumer or office monitor.

Once again, I am amazed by the depth of detail there is to know, and how the assumption that "more is better" can be misleading.

I am curious to see for myself what the qualitative effect is of viewing sRGB images on a wide gamut monitor. Where can I see decent monitors on display near Chicago??? I'd like to see an HP LP2065 and a wide gamut monitor personally.

In my upcoming review I will have some pics between 20WMGX2 and LCD2690. Little tough now though as the 20WMGX2's power button is broken.

Till then you can check these out (3007WFP-HC, more extreme cases).

http://topic.pcpop.com/publish...cleview.aspx?id=198337
And here: http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=162570

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: ATUCutter
I have been searching for a good LCD monitor for awhile now that would suit my gaming needs and my work needs. I work at home and am on my computer a lot, when I have some free time I like to play a good first person shooter (which are hard to come by these days on the PC, but that is another story )I have been looking at this thread for over a month now and there is just a plethora of information in here, thanks to xtknight and other knowledgable individuals. Thanks again.

Money is the restrictive factor for me. If it wasn't I would be grabbing the Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC or the UltraSharp WFP2007 which Dell no longer carries on their home site.

Now I will cut to the chase after all of this babbling I am seriously considering this monitor NEC AccuSync ASLCD223WXM I'm positive it isn't a IPS panel for the size and price ($269.99) but it is listed as having a horizontal and vertical viewing angles of 176 ! How do they do that on a TN? This thing has been out for awhile now and I am finding very little information on it, e.g. reviews from actual buyers, tech reviews. There are a few on Newegg and Dell but not many.

It is only on sale at Dell for one more day, if anyone has any info on this or owns it, or would simply like to talk me in or out of it please feel free. I appreciate any help. I want to make sure it will be good enough for reflex gaming but still have good color and very clear text when working.

NEC LCD223WXM product page tech specs

Thanks in advance !!

I don't have any more info on it than you, as there have been no pro reviews. This is a reason for me to update my OP though (176/176 no longer means VA due to NEC's latest exaggeration technique).

P.S. I don't recall any innovations in TN viewing angle. This TN is the same as the rest.

 

[Trean]

vx2435wm scheduled for delivery today, will post review when i get a chance

also have a crt and a receiver so i will run some lag tests and see if the receiver introduces anything to input lag

 

[najames]

xtknight, thanks again for all your hard work here!!!

Good News:
1) I have tested both my HP w2207 (July STM001 models) monitors and like them very much, no dead/stuck pixels like my old 19" L90D+. $520 total = good deal I think.
2) Backlight bleed is not bad at all, blank screens show an even very low lighting.
3) I REALLY like the stands easy height adjustment, haven't tried prortrait mode, likely never will.
4) they are set on "text" in onscreen menus, text is sharp/clear, even on non-native resolutions. Settings Red=291 Green=229 Blue=255, brightness/contrast=60.
5) After 4 nights of trial and error, reading, hacking, I did get current ATI drivers installed, resolution set to 1680x1050. Woohoo!!

Bad News:
1) after getting one monitor's 1680x150 resolution working with current ATI drivers, then trying to set up dual extended desktop displays, I have successfully borked Linux Mint Daryna. One display is running at 1280x800 for some reason and the other is a clone, but at 1680x1050, makes my eyes buggy. It is slower than molasses, click on quit and it takes 20seconds to open the shutdown menu. Looks like I am headed for a reinstall.

If anyone has better "calibrated" settings for a w2207, post them.

Time to build a cheap NAS for directories to hold everything so it is easier to do this often when I play too hard and crash systems. I have almost everything needed on hand. So many computers, so little time.

 

[starcycle]

Originally posted by: 74Norton

Like many here, I need a little advice on picking a 20-22" widescreen monitor. It will be used for basic email, web type stuff but I also will use it for photo processing (not professional). I'd like to keep in under $500 if possible. The only monitor listed in the photo editing group that fits this is the Samsung 215TW. The only place I've been able to find this monitor is at Tiger Direct ($430), and I've read mixed reviews about them.

I just bought one from there. I couldn't resist checking it out with the 30 day NQA return policy. Here's my basic take:

Beautiful monitor & screen. I really like the height/swivel adjustability, and it feels very "weighty" and quality made. The colors are *very* rich and vibrant. No backlight bleed whatsoever on the one I got (made in mexico, but I don't know the date -- more recent than the bad ones that were being reported from mexico a while ago - they must have fixed those problems). There are also plenty of hookups, but I mostly just use it as a basic monitor so I haven't tested them. Viewing angle is very good, and I haven't noticed any input lag (I'm not a gamer, though, just non-gaming uses). It sometimes seems a little slow in video rendering, but that could be my card.

The downsides of the monitor are that first, the color and especially the red is just way too saturated, imo. To give an idea, I think it comes by default at 50/50/50 (RGB), and when I turn the red down to around 20-25 reds start to look a little better. But then whites start to look green. Even bringing the red down to 45 makes a white web page have a minty green tinge.

The monitor is also *slightly* naturally dark. The black is very good, very black, but maybe because of the oversaturated colors again, a lot of things just seem too dark, like you're missing some detail. This shows up especially in movies. Web surfing is primo and very nice, excellent text rendering, good contrast -- i think the slightly larger 21" screen helps here. But again, when the monitor is adjusted for the red, all the whites and light grays looks green - not cool!

Related to the above, there is very little control possible in the settings. You can set contrast, brightness, red, green, blue levels, and the "warmth," and that's it. Compared to my much cheaper LG (204wt), which has a lot of different user settings - gamma, sRGB etc. (the latter might correspond to warmth/coolness, not sure), it just feels like you're left out to sea if you want to make more adjustments. Which is really unfortunate, because the colors themselves are vibrant and probably very accurate, but the red is just way too intense.

I tried a "Shakespeare in Love" DVD - if you've seen it, you might remember that the colors and some of the costumes (the queen, etc.) are very sumptuous. The lead actor's lips are a little naturally red, though, and on the samsung it literally looks like he's wearing lipstick. It's really pronounced. Once you start noticing things like that, all you can see is how everyone's face looks too "ruddy" or even pinkish, and how some scenes on first glance look a little dark and lacking detail. We compared a few scenes one monitor after the other, and while the 215TW was definitely a step above in pure visual richness, color depth, and "wow" factor, the LG held its own pretty well, having comparatively a more "washed out" look, but with skin tones and everything overall looking more natural and less distracting. I think samsung sets the richness to be artificially vibrant to give that "wow" factor and grab joe consumer walking down the best buy aisle. It does look good, but I think after a while it would just be too visually fatiguing. That red -- that red!

So I'm keeping the LG for now as I continue searching, I actually prefer it overall because of the samsungs shortcomings. When the samsung picture is good (blues, greens, natural fabrics, wood, stone, etc.), it's *way* better than the LG, of course. But it's really comparing apples and oranges as the LG is a TN panel, much cheaper, definitely cheaper feeling construction, etc. But I just can't live with the excessive reds of the samsung, or the green tinge when adjusting for that. Next I'm either going to try the 22" lenovo, or I guess just go to 24" instead in the search for the elusive perfect picture. I'll even take the perfect compromise at this point, but at more than twice the cost of the LG, I didn't think the samsung was it.


>>edit: see update below. cliff's: new video card helped.

 

[Gunlance]

Originally posted by: 74Norton

Gunlance, where did you get your 216TW?

I was considering the dell too. The samsung seemed more worth it especially seeing as you know what you are purchasing. I got my 215TW from tigerdirect and it was here lickety-split. I know tigerdirect is pretty skimpy on support/service there are whole websites dedicated to that : (

But I went for it anyways.

 

[dragon57]

Originally posted by: dragon57
Ahhh! I have too much information .

First, I currently have a 19" crt that is on its last legs. I also just turned 50 and the eyes are not what they once were. I have been looking at the lcd's available at the local big box stores and can't figure out all the dot pitch specs I have and how that relates to text size on the different size widescreen panels. I like the looks and size of the 24" wide screen panels, but have no idea how the text at native resolution on these panels will be big enough for me. Note: I normally run 1280x1024 on my 19" crt.

Can someone educate me on these things?

Finally, thanks for all the info and feedback in this thread.

I wanted to follow up on my own question. In case others are looking for the same type of info, I found this dpi calculator that has allowed me to narrow down which size will work best for my needs: http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html

 

[Cheex]

Are the Gateway and the Acer the only glossy panels in this list:
If I'm going to get a TN, it might as well be glossy

???

 

[ATUCutter]

Originally posted by: ATUCutter
I have been searching for a good LCD monitor for awhile now that would suit my gaming needs and my work needs. I work at home and am on my computer a lot, when I have some free time I like to play a good first person shooter (which are hard to come by these days on the PC, but that is another story )I have been looking at this thread for over a month now and there is just a plethora of information in here, thanks to xtknight and other knowledgable individuals. Thanks again.

Money is the restrictive factor for me. If it wasn't I would be grabbing the Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC or the UltraSharp WFP2007 which Dell no longer carries on their home site.

Now I will cut to the chase after all of this babbling I am seriously considering this monitor NEC AccuSync ASLCD223WXM I'm positive it isn't a IPS panel for the size and price ($269.99) but it is listed as having a horizontal and vertical viewing angles of 176 ! How do they do that on a TN? This thing has been out for awhile now and I am finding very little information on it, e.g. reviews from actual buyers, tech reviews. There are a few on Newegg and Dell but not many.

It is only on sale at Dell for one more day, if anyone has any info on this or owns it, or would simply like to talk me in or out of it please feel free. I appreciate any help. I want to make sure it will be good enough for reflex gaming but still have good color and very clear text when working.


Thanks in advance !!

Well I went and bought the LG L226WTQ from Best Buy last night, it was on sale for 279.99 I am coming from a NEC FE991SB. Man, do I have much more work space on my desk! That is a gimme though. Text is crisp and clear, no problem at all with ghosting in gaming, COD4 looks really good on it. I know this isn't much of a review, but I just trusted what I read here. So far I am happy with it, it suits my specific needs (work, gaming, web surfing) perfectly. Thanks to all the hard work xtknight, this thread is the most helpful I found on the net. I did find this nifty little website for monitor calibration, not sure if it has been posted in this thread or not but it is very very informative as well, and even better, the guy is offering it for free. It helped me with setting mine up.
LCD MONITOR CALIBRATION

If anyone has a better way that is free please let me know. Thanks!

 

[zod96]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the samsung 932GW? I just saw it at circuitcity and it looked awesome.

 

[74Norton]

Originally posted by: xtknight
The 215TW may have considerably better default color accuracy. The PVA included in the 2007WFP is a little subpar based off user reports.

That's what I was afraid of. I do have a Spyder2 Express, if that makes a difference.

Originally posted by: xtknight
You probably want to stay away from TNs. Try the HP LP2065. You have a chance of getting an S-IPS or AMVA, and the AMVA isn't all that bad. I wish I could recommend you a widescreen monitor but I can't recommend something that doesn't exist. The Lenovo 22" (1920x1200) is a possibility but there are no pro reviews of it yet. The Eizo 22" S-PVA is very expensive (~$700). Might just be better off with a VX2435wm if you can find a good deal on it (~$500+).

The HP LP2065 is a not a widescreen, unfortunately. I did just read about the new Lenovo and I might wait until it's reviewed.

Thanks for the help.

Originally posted by: starcycle
So I'm keeping the LG for now as I continue searching, I actually prefer it overall because of the samsungs shortcomings. When the samsung picture is good (blues, greens, natural fabrics, wood, stone, etc.), it's *way* better than the LG, of course. But it's really comparing apples and oranges as the LG is a TN panel, much cheaper, definitely cheaper feeling construction, etc. But I just can't live with the excessive reds of the samsung, or the green tinge when adjusting for that. Next I'm either going to try the 22" lenovo, or I guess just go to 24" instead in the search for the elusive perfect picture. I'll even take the perfect compromise at this point, but at more than twice the cost of the LG, I didn't think the samsung was it.

Arg! I don't like the sound of that. The Lenovo looks interesting and I don't really want to go up to a 24".

Originally posted by: Gunlance
I was considering the dell too. The samsung seemed more worth it especially seeing as you know what you are purchasing. I got my 215TW from tigerdirect and it was here lickety-split. I know tigerdirect is pretty skimpy on support/service there are whole websites dedicated to that : (

It looks like they're the only game in town now. Are you having any of the color problems that starcycle is having?

 

[zod96]

Just got the samsung 932GW, and love it. Of course it has 1 stuck red pixel in the upper left hand corner towards the center. Would you return it for 1 stuck pixel? I tried all the tricks to get it unstuck but nothings worked. The circuitcity I got it from doesn't have anymore. So I would have to drive about 30 miles to exchange it with another one. Do you guys think its worth it?

Thanks