[Retired] The LCD Thread

[JASTECH]

Anybody tested the ViewSonic VX2835?

 

[Gordon Airporte]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
Viewing Angle 170º horizontal, 160º vertical = TN = not 8bit = not as good probably

Ah, so the manufacturers haven't fudged the numbers enough that you can't recognize the TN's by their viewing angles. So it's safe to say that anything <= 160 degrees V is TN?
Looking thorough their websites it really annoys me that they won't just tell you the panel type, at least on the 'professional' models.

I'm looking for dual monitors because that's what I've become used to with my lousy 17" CRT's, which give me 2304 pixels horizontally, which can't be matched by any single desktop-sized monitor.
I use a 24" iMac at work and I'm bothered by the window management I have to do and the visual clutter that can happen with multiple windows. Someplace in this thread I think someone mentioned software that would split the screen up into zones for better window management, but I can't find the reference.

I've started considering an asymmetrical setup, too, since the one auxiliary monitor is used exclusively for office-type stuff, and a VP930b is kind of extravagant for that. I figure it can be an inexpensive 17" if it needs to fit next to a widescreen main monitor. Alternatively, the aux monitor could be something like a 19" turned in portrait mode.

I see xknight uses an asymmetrical setup, anyone else? How does it work for you?

 

[dragon57]

Originally posted by: zod96
So if you had bad eye sight, would you choose a 19 inch 1440x900 or a 22 inch 1680x1050?

I recently had the same question. I just turned 50 and I needed something that would give me slightly larger fonts than my old 19" crt. I looked at everything up to 30". I picked a 22". I have been using it for around a week and I have no regrets.

If you can live with a TN, I would recommend a 22" over the 19". Your mileage may vary.

 

[UTFan81]

Originally posted by: dragon57

Originally posted by: zod96
So if you had bad eye sight, would you choose a 19 inch 1440x900 or a 22 inch 1680x1050?

I recently had the same question. I just turned 50 and I needed something that would give me slightly larger fonts than my old 19" crt. I looked at everything up to 30". I picked a 22". I have been using it for around a week and I have no regrets.

If you can live with a TN, I would recommend a 22" over the 19". Your mileage may vary.

there won't be much difference between 19 and 22 for reading so you might as well go for the 22 just because it will be nice and big in comparison. If you have a 20 inch ws, that is really hard to read.

 

[UTFan81]

Originally posted by: zod96
Aw ok got it thanks dragon...I'll goto circuit city tomorrow and take a look at the samsung 2232GW ...

you might want to consider the BW instead at Best Buy. GW is the glossy version which can reflect back light easily definitely making things harder to read.

 

[cboath]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: jhcodafa



Thank you for the reply and this wonderful guide, its probably the best on the net and deserves its own website. you are year ahead of cnet and other sites.

anyway

I read the issues concerning the VX2435wm from a customer on newegg.

Here is what it says:

"The lack of any apparent signal auto-detect. Mind you there are a lot of video source inputs and if multiple are going what should it do, but if there is only one active signal it should be able to auto-detect (you have to always manually set input via menu). Mac support is not great. The drivers on the CD are OS 9 only with no planned OS X support? Also powering up or coming out of sleep on my Mac Pro is annoying slow compared to a PC. It goes through several cycles of showing the screen then going to a ""no signal"" blue screen, then back, then back to the blue screen, then finally the desktop will show up (HDMI). In roughly a week I had a dead pixel show up. Also the back plastic panel that you have to remove to plug any chords into it is extremely poorly engineered. The thing took forever for me to get it off fearing I was going to break it, I cut myself on the sharp plastic edges, and I could not get it to go back on properly for the life of me. It's very awkward to manipulate. " http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824116079

He mentions drivers but I don't think you need monitor drivers even for a Mac.

The only thing the drivers contain are frequency ranges (which should be auto-detected on a brand spankin' new OS X anyway). They also contain an ICC profile which should be available in the Windows drivers if you can't unpack it out of OS9 drivers somehow. The ICC profile doesn't actually do anything other than tell Photoshop the gamut of your monitor.

Signal auto-detect can be controlled thru OSD? DoctorM, et al (VX2435 owners) can you confirm this?

I only have my computer plugged into the HDMI port so I can't comment too much about auto detecting. I can see if there's a setting for it when I get home though. From what he wrote, i doesn't sound like you set it to autodetect. You go to the menu and under input (i think) you have a list of inputs to choose from. It takes 5 seconds to do it. I can see it being a pain if you switch inputs a lot. I don't.

As for the reviewers comments. To each his own I guess. The back panel seems hard to get off because, yeah, I was afraid of breaking it. It's more resilient than I give it credit for though. Give it a bit of effort and it pops off, no big deal. I didn't have any problem getting it back on either. The only issue I honestly had was that the HDMI port is too high up. The arc of the back panel interferes with plugging in an hdmi cable. You can still do it, it just takes some concentration to do it. On the plus side, it won't fall out easily

I can't speak to the Mac bits because I don't have a mac. I believe OSX has been out a year or so longer than this monitor, so the fact they don't have OSX drivers would tell me they don't think it's necessary.

 

[dlmartin53]

Thanks for all the info. And excuse my ignorance, but how do you find out the type of tech a LCD uses? When I look at specifications on MFG websites I don't see TN, VA, IPS listed.

 

[redlinez33]

well its easy to tell usually if its TN or the other type. TN has typically a viewing angle of 170 or 160..... IPS will have a viewing angle of 178 and VA panels will have a viewing angle of either 176 or 178....

Harder to tell if its a VA or IPS by looking at specs

 

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: muppet22
i noticed there was no "hardcore gamer and movie watcher" category..so i was wondering what you would recommend.

He does have a "Multimedia" category. A quick look shows that at least 3 monitors are recommended for both Gaming and Multimedia:

- Planar PX2611W 26"

- Gateway FHD2400 24"

- LG Flatron L1970HR 19"

There may be others listed in both categories, but not the NEC UXis (which as you mentioned is probably due to the average response time + input lag).

yes..the 19" is out of the question though.. i want 24"+. and it would appear that the 3007wfp-hc would be a nice candidate (low rt+lag) even though it's not in the gaming list.

also,

Originally posted by: muppet22
so far it seems the 3007WFP-HC is my best option. however, i am a bit concerned that you can only adjust the brightness on the monitor. is this a problem though? i can use an external program (ie powerstrip) to adjust the RGB, temperature, gamma, brightness and contrast. i am content with only a DVI-D input..

 

[wankzit]

Ok I love this tread, but there's also a lot of info to wade through so I was hoping to get some input here as well.

I'm looking to buy a 24" (rather 1920*1200) that would be used as a monitor (some gaming, not as hardcore as I once was) and TV set so viewing angles are important. As I plan to drop a fair chuck of change I'd also like to be able to plug in consoles at a later date (so 1:1 would be nice.)

First I would have bought a FP241W / WZ but everyone ran out of stock after they were discontinued.

So now I'm looking at

A) Lenovo L220x ~$530
Unfortunately I haven't seen any professional reviews of this, so it's kinda hard to make an informed decision. The lack of 1:1 also kinda puts me off.

B) VX2435 ~$700
All the inputs I would need (don't mind switching a HDMI cable if need be) and 1:1 mapping. No real ergonomics, but if I find that to be a big deal I can get a VESA mount. Input lag I could see being an issue in online games (effectively adding to ping time, correct me if I'm wrong here.) Also I've gotten some conflicting reports on the response time, some say 8MS others say 5MS.

C) 245T ~$750
Better ergonomics than the VX2435 but also pushing the budget. Extra DVI port not really an issue. Again high input lag.

I guess what it really comes down to is which is better for games/office use. It seems there's a lot of conflicting evidence out there. Some say no ghosting, others say some with RTC errors (for the 245T.) I currently own a really old CRT (high quality at the time) hence the concern with ghosting. The other LCDs I've worked with have been TN based (VX922 and 225MS,) so it's kinda hard to judge if I'd be able to detect it on a *VA based screen.

Any other info you guys got would be great, thanks!

 

[cboath]

I use mine for CAD, Animation, design, web browsing, and some gaming. Love my VX2435. Even watched a blue-ray flick on it and was blown away.

 

[JASTECH]

I had to laugh when I read this guy was shot in the chest with a LED, LOL
http://www.hackaday.com/2007/0...backlight-replacement/

 

[zod96]

I went ahead and got the samsung 932Gw and the 2232GW to compare the two and see which is better for my eyes will see when I get home from work in about 3 hours..

 

[TempletonPeck]

Is the Samsung 2032GW subject to the same panel lotteries and issue as the 206bw?

 

[zod96]

I hope not :-(

 

[Trean]

@VX2435WM Inquirers:


I cannot find an input auto detect. The input seems to default to the last selected input. So I leave it on HDMI for my computer and switch it manually to Component for my HDTV tuner. If I turn the monitor off it will come back on with whichever input was last selected.

I don't have problems without an input auto detect. If poorly done it would just wreak havoc on my life since I normally have my computer on when I switch over to the HDTV tuner signal. Either way, its a 24" monitor so I am generally not far from it whether I am watching a DVD (through computer) or HDTV through the tuner, so I don't have problems switching the signal. Plus the tuner is near my monitor so when I switch to it, I have to grab the remote which is stored near it and thus I am near the monitor and I just quickly switch over the signal.

Changing the signal isn't that hard of a problem, you use two of the buttons. One to open up the quick menu of input selections, the up or down arrow (generally just one of them since there are only 5 choices). And then the same one you used initially to select a different input source. I do it quite often and sure it is easier generally on a tv with remote to just toggle input source, but this is a monitor so I wasn't really expecting something like that.


The most important thing it seems is that the monitor came with 0 dead/stuck pixels, in great condition. Note to those that will buy or haven't set it up yet: leave the back off until you have all the cables and the monitor situated and have tested it for malaties then put the back on again. Also if you plug everything in while the monitor is lying down then it should be easier to get the HDMI and all other plugs properly in their spots. I had no difficulties plugging in the cable that came with the monitor into the proper slots.

 

[weyford]

I'm looking for a 1920x1200 monitor. I'm wanting to avoid a TN monitor because the viewing angle bugs me. I'm tempted by the Samsung 275T but am curious... does anyone know if the manufacturers release their new models at any particular time. Are there any upcoming models that are about to come out?

e.g. Is it worthwhile to wait a few months?

Thanks.

 

[UTFan81]

Originally posted by: zod96
I went ahead and got the samsung 932Gw and the 2232GW to compare the two and see which is better for my eyes will see when I get home from work in about 3 hours..

are you sure you want glossy?

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: weyford
I'm looking for a 1920x1200 monitor. I'm wanting to avoid a TN monitor because the viewing angle bugs me. I'm tempted by the Samsung 275T but am curious... does anyone know if the manufacturers release their new models at any particular time. Are there any upcoming models that are about to come out?

e.g. Is it worthwhile to wait a few months?

Thanks.

Interestingly enough, the 275T has been discontinued and the 275T Plus should be out any day...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: MDDI
xtknight, is the Eye One Display 2 worth twice the $$$ than the Huet Pro, if so, what are the differences?

Probably not for most people. The Eye One Display 2 can adjust it super carefully for picky photo editors. If you just want semi accurate colors the Huey Pro is fine.

Originally posted by: Tasiin
xtknight,

I think I've pretty much settled on trying either the 2007WFP or LP2065. I had one last question for you, though.

I was looking over the specs of the two displays, and I noticed that both of them should in theory be able to do 72Hz at their native resolution. The LP2065 has a maximum of a 92kHz horizontal scan rate over DVI, and 1600x1200 at 75Hz is 90kHz. The 2007WFP is limited to 81kHz, but 1680x1050 at 72Hz is about 78.3kHz.

Do you know if either of these monitors will really do higher refresh rates, or will they just do 60 and skip some frames like many other LCDs?

For these specific LCDs, I have no idea. The information isn't readily available.

Originally posted by: Gordon Airporte
Viewsonic VP930b vs. VP950b

I was seriously considering buying a pair of vp930b's, which I thought newegg carried, but now they only have vp950b's.
Is this an update of the model (bigger number and all) or a totally different technology? Prad.de only lists the 930. The price is about the same.

The stats listed for the 950 here
http://www.viewsonic.com/produ...lays/proseries/VP950b/
are 280cd/m, 800:1 / 2000:1 dynamic contrast and 5ms bwb / 2ms g2g response.

There's an Amazon review from a user of both panels that says the colors are much more saturated/vibrant on the 950, but that must be out-of-the-box because he didn't mention any calibration.

The VP950b is a TN (lower viewing angles) with a wider gamut backlight, which is why they say colors are more saturated. Saturation is not the same as contrast, although it can help in cases of low contrast. The VP950b is certainly not a monitor for photo editors, not even for print work actually since it's a TN.

If you're gaming it's fine, maybe even preferable to the VP930b. The VP930b was only 6-bit anyway even though it was P-MVA. I bet most people would like the VP950b better. Viewing angles on 19" TNs aren't that bad, and it probably has better response time, surely better color saturation, about same contrast. Maybe better dithering algorithm than the VP930b's ugly algorithm if you're lucky. The VP950b may be decent for movies but please don't edit photos on it unless you want them coming out crazily inaccurate.

Originally posted by: brencat
Hi gang. After many months of looking out for a decent LCD, I believe the Planar PX2611W with its IPS panel and low lag is the closest thing I'm going to get to replicating the quality of my Iiyama Visionmaster Pro CRT for less than $1k.

My selection of B&M stores selling monitors is pretty lame near where I live in central NJ, so I'll likely be buying this sight-unseen. What are the top internet retailers for monitors with decent stuck pixel return policies? Newegg's policy isn't that great, and resellerrating.com's feedback of cdw.com is pretty bad too.

Thanks in advance, B.

Everyone else is in the same boat as you, and I really don't know of any online retailers with "superior" policies.

Most of the time you deal with the manufacturer directly when there are problems, anyway. Sometimes the retailer even requires this. Planar's policy seems great compared to some others.

The PX2611W is indeed a good choice, though.

Originally posted by: brencat
Thank you Engraver for the quick response. I called Planar directly before I read your post and was fairly satisfied with their exchange policy. They also told me point blank all items sold from their online store are new -- no returns or refurbished units. I like the low input lag and the fact it is an IPS panel. Uses will be at least 75% gaming, the rest for photos (wife's hobby) and office work. I'm a bit concerned though at your observation of lack of quality control. $900 is a lot of money either way.

Wondering now if I should hedge a bit and consider the LG L245WP or NEC 2470WNX as cheaper PVA alternatives. But it doesn't seem like the NEC is good value for the money when I can get the IPS Planar for only ~ $150 more. The dilemna here seems to be "relative value". What do you think?

The Planar is known for uniformity issues, although my LCD2690WUXi has enough of these problems (30 nits of variance). It's really an S-IPS problem. I don't think this is much to worry about. It probably won't be serious even though uniformity is not as good as S-PVA panels.

I do think the PX2611W is a better choice than the L245WP or 2470WNX. But if you're doing mainly sRGB photo editing then definitely check out the NEC LCD2490WUXi. It has good quality control (probably better than LCD26) and it's an awesome panel. It is real good quality and it will last you awhile until LED LCDs or OLEDs get perfected/cheaper.

Originally posted by: zod96
What would be easier to read text and see icons on? A 22 inch widescreen LCD with a 1680x1050 resolution or a 19 inch widescreen with a 1440x900 resolution?

The 19"@1440x900. Dot pitch: 0.2835 mm.

Looks like LG's 19" wide panels are actually 0.2850 mm.

22" has dot pitch of 0.282 mm., smaller text.

A higher PPI (pixels per inch) means a smaller dot pitch and smaller text.

 

[zod96]

So a 19 inch at 1440x900 would be better for the eyes instead of 22 inch 1680x1050 got it thanks...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: muppet22
nice posts xtknight. i have a question on what monitor i should buy.

currently i have a Samsung 906BW (19" wide) and it just isn't big enough. i'm looking to get something in the range of 24" to 30", and i'll be using this monitor for gaming and watching movies. i noticed there was no "hardcore gamer and movie watcher" category..so i was wondering what you would recommend.

i really dislike backlight bleeding, because it really ruins the movie-watching experience for me. i also dislike how the image loses contrast if i move my head a little to the left or right. so far it seems the 3007WFP-HC is my best option. however, i am a bit concerned that you can only adjust the brightness on the monitor. is this a problem though? i can use an external program (ie powerstrip) to adjust the RGB, temperature, gamma, brightness and contrast. i am content with only a DVI-D input..

Using PowerStrip adjusts your video card and limits your bit depth as a result because it's not adjusting the monitor. It's a poor idea to use, in general.

So I would just get rid of that and use brightness control on the Dell. You shouldn't need much else; the default color quality on S-IPS panels is much better. Further improvement will only come from a colorimeter, which can still be used with the Dell (calibrate for native and it'll adjust your video card carefully).

i was also looking at the NEC WUXi's but they are a bit pricey and unfortunately have a higher response time + lag.

any reason why the Dell 3008WFP isn't on your lists?

Edit: sorry this post seems real jumbled, because I wrote it originally and got almost everything wrong about the 305T/decided to re-write it.

The 3008WFP isn't on there yet because I haven't added it yet.

I read a lot on it and it looks great though. It will be added soon just as soon as I make sure of a few things. That's what I was going to suggest, anyway, but not sure if there's $600+ worth of improvement over 3007WFP-HC if you need a DVI-D input only.

(I haven't read everything on it, like this 6/10: http://www.extremetech.com/art...0,1697,2244009,00.asp)

I think VA panels make better TVs because of their higher dynamic range (low black, bright white). But this lopsided gradient (high dynamic range) on VA panels makes them a worse choice for more subtle things like photo editing.

The H-IPS NEC LCDs are really good for movies though because of the anti-violet tint polarizer on them, but the regular S-IPS panels aren't blessed with this.

I really should mention, if you are a hardcore gamer (which I didn't pick up at first), then the Dell might be a better option. Although, the Samsung 305T (S-PVA)'s image delay as reported by DigitalVersus certainly looks acceptable too. The Dell might have about 5 ms less of lag at best.

I don't even think the 305T has any more color options or any OSD? So I'd really have to be high to recommend you a more expensive S-PVA with no more features than an S-IPS screen.

The 3007WFP-HC will have more viewing angle stability and color accuracy than the 305T. However, for games/movies, the 305T's better contrast (deeper black) might be beneficial but it probably isn't that much higher than the S-IPS. Apparently uniformity on the S-IPS panel might even be better (check out the ExtremeTech review above vs. Gateway S-PVA).

It's really hard to know what's better for you. Maybe you will end up going with the cheaper Dell anyway, which BTW I think is certainly a better choice given the price. The X-Bit Labs review of the 305T is outdated (they had a std gamut unit) and I don't see many other pro reviews of the 305T so there's not much to go off of.

I don't recommend the Gateway XHD3000 because of quality control issues, and it's not worth the money for most people. I'm starting to think the same with the 3008WFP, but I'll see.

 

[jhcodafa]

just got my Nec 2470WNX. Watched Harry Potter in 720p, and the quality is amazing. I did not notice any ghosting.


However I'm noticing some backlight bleeding when the screen is black(movie,pictures,just a black screen)
I see white light in all fourt courners.

Anyone else with this NEC getting this problem? Maybe I should call them up? grr.

 

[zod96]

Is back light bleeding ok, if its a very small line on the bottom of the screen on an all black screen? What exactly is input lag? I read somewhere that the 2232 samsung has that, but I just played BF2 and Crysis and it was butter smooth and awesome, what should I be looking for?

 

[jhcodafa]

I just called NEC and they said the problem I'm experiencing is covered by warrentee. Hopefully Newegg agrees and will just send me a new one. Because i have a feeling nec will take a lot longer then newegg