[Retired] The LCD Thread

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: muppet22
so i've had a change of heart with the dell 3007wfp-hc..although i'm sure it is nice and all, after looking for a new video card i've come to the conlusion that it's native resolution is just to high to get good fps while gaming.

so i've turned to the 24"-27" size category. i think 1900x1200 will be just fine. the problem is there weren't many IPS panels in this range..the planar 25.5" seems to be the best option, although ToastyX's review over on HardForum was kind of scary.

what i'm most interested is no backlight bleeding, deep blacks with the lights off (i.e. nice for movies), low response times (for fps games), and lastly some sort of viewing angles (although i could sacrifice this)...so far i think my best options are: Planar PX2611W, Samsung 275T, Samsung 245BW, but i haven't really looked into it very thoroughly yet. i'm not really interested in perfect colors, so i'm not sure if the NEC LCD2X90WUXi's or planar are for me.

what do you guys think?

The NEC 2490/2690 are the best...but they also have about 33ms (2 frames) of input lag. The Planar has less than a frame (12ms) of lag, and costs $300 less than the 2490 and $400 less than the 2690. So unless you need the color critical electronics, the Planar is probably the better bang for the buck. If you're worried about Toasty's review (which I am), get it from CDW; you can return/exchange it with no restocking fee and they pay shipping both ways.

I don't know anything about the Samsungs except that their monitors in general look fantastic but are infamous for outrageous amounts of lag.

 

[muppet22]

oh really? i've never heard that samsungs had bad lag. the 245bw and 275t seem to indicate otherwise ("0 - 7.5 - 10" and "14 ms max response time with low RTC error", respectively)..and i haven't had any issues with their smaller lcds (17" and 19"wide), as far as input delay goes..

i'm curious as to how the backlight bleeding is on the 2 samsungs, especially compared to the planar.

it is nice to know though that cdw has a good return/exchange policy. if you do an exchange, do you have to send it to them and then wait? or do you wait for them to send the new monitor first and then exchange at ups/fedex?

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: muppet22
oh really? i've never heard that samsungs had bad lag. the 245bw and 275t seem to indicate otherwise ("0 - 7.5 - 10" and "14 ms max response time with low RTC error", respectively)..and i haven't had any issues with their smaller lcds (17" and 19"wide), as far as input delay goes..

i'm curious as to how the backlight bleeding is on the 2 samsungs, especially compared to the planar.

it is nice to know though that cdw has a good return/exchange policy. if you do an exchange, do you have to send it to them and then wait? or do you wait for them to send the new monitor first and then exchange at ups/fedex?

If you let them charge your credit card until they get the old one, they'll ship the replacement immediately and refund the charge when they get the old one. I would guess the backlight bleed is worse on the Planar; it seems to be a common problem on this model.

As far as the Samsungs go, some of their monitors are known for ridiculous (50+ ms) lag; but the numbers you posted make it clear that these models are obviously fantastic in that regard; 7.5-10ms and 14ms are great for LCDs of that size.

 

[UTFan81]

Originally posted by: zod96
I went with the samsung 2232GW. The one I got is great no dead or stuck pixels but it does have backlight bleeding on the bottom and top from left to right. Its only shown on a black screen of course. Is their a way to get rid of some of it, by increasing the contrast or turning down the brightness?

turning down the brightness will obviously make it less visible. in my experience sometimes backlight bleeding gets a bit better with time to. I don't know why but wait a few days and see for yourself.

 

[Jephph]

How does the EIZO CE240W-BK Black 24.1" compare to the 24.1" NEC MultiSync LCD2490WUXi, 1920x1200 (16:10) or 25.5" NEC MultiSync LCD2690WUXi, 1920x1200 (16:10) for print-target photo editing?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: jhcodafa
just got my Nec 2470WNX. Watched Harry Potter in 720p, and the quality is amazing. I did not notice any ghosting.


However I'm noticing some backlight bleeding when the screen is black(movie,pictures,just a black screen)
I see white light in all fourt courners.

Anyone else with this NEC getting this problem? Maybe I should call them up? grr.

Depends on the extent but I have no way of measuring it from here so you'd have to show me a photo or something. Even then it's very difficult to tell because of exposure. If you see it, there might not be a problem but if it bothers you after trying to get used to it, then I'd see you should try calling them up.

Originally posted by: zod96
Is back light bleeding ok, if its a very small line on the bottom of the screen on an all black screen? What exactly is input lag? I read somewhere that the 2232 samsung has that, but I just played BF2 and Crysis and it was butter smooth and awesome, what should I be looking for?

Input lag is a delay between requested pixel change and the actual pixel change (e.g. you move your mouse, screen updates frame only in a few milliseconds, not instantly).

Originally posted by: BDawg
I'm sure this has been covered in the thread, but 3000 posts is kinda hard to sort through.

Is there a 22" model that has HDMI and a scaler so it will support 720p and 1080i/p images?

I'm looking for something to hook up to my computer, but also be able to use with my PS3 and 360.

The Gateway HD2200 looked good, but reviews said it has horrible color.

There aren't any models that would have better color than the HD2200 probably, since they're also all TNs. That might be your only choice. That's the only one I know of that would support it, but Sceptre or Westinghouse may have models that support 1080i. I'm not sure.

These are just examples, I'm not sure of actual input support or scaling support on these.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824255003
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824112009
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824001238

A quick search of Newegg may reveal more, and once you find a model you like you might look on HardForum to see if anyone has tested inputs with it. I can't provide this information because I don't test that many LCDs (at least not any 22" multimedia ones), and you can't rely on anything when it comes to manufacturers/LCDs. Scalers have had countless problems and issues, on certain units of monitors. You can probably count on getting some type of acceptable image though (usually Fill works fine if the input is supported at all).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: TempletonPeck
Is the Samsung 2032GW subject to the same panel lotteries and issue as the 206bw?

As far as I know, yes. I know the 2232GW is.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: wankzit
Ok I love this tread, but there's also a lot of info to wade through so I was hoping to get some input here as well.

I'm looking to buy a 24" (rather 1920*1200) that would be used as a monitor (some gaming, not as hardcore as I once was) and TV set so viewing angles are important. As I plan to drop a fair chuck of change I'd also like to be able to plug in consoles at a later date (so 1:1 would be nice.)

First I would have bought a FP241W / WZ but everyone ran out of stock after they were discontinued.

So now I'm looking at

A) Lenovo L220x ~$530
Unfortunately I haven't seen any professional reviews of this, so it's kinda hard to make an informed decision. The lack of 1:1 also kinda puts me off.

B) VX2435 ~$700
All the inputs I would need (don't mind switching a HDMI cable if need be) and 1:1 mapping. No real ergonomics, but if I find that to be a big deal I can get a VESA mount. Input lag I could see being an issue in online games (effectively adding to ping time, correct me if I'm wrong here.) Also I've gotten some conflicting reports on the response time, some say 8MS others say 5MS.

C) 245T ~$750
Better ergonomics than the VX2435 but also pushing the budget. Extra DVI port not really an issue. Again high input lag.

I guess what it really comes down to is which is better for games/office use. It seems there's a lot of conflicting evidence out there. Some say no ghosting, others say some with RTC errors (for the 245T.) I currently own a really old CRT (high quality at the time) hence the concern with ghosting. The other LCDs I've worked with have been TN based (VX922 and 225MS,) so it's kinda hard to judge if I'd be able to detect it on a *VA based screen.

Any other info you guys got would be great, thanks!

The VX24 seems like the best overall deal for you. Give it a try. I suspect you might get a little more ghosting with the VX24 and some RTC artifacts with the 245T. Personally I'd rather have the slight ghosting.

I doubt you'd be able to detect much more ghosting than a 225MS on an overdriven 24" VA panel.

The 245T has an insane amount of input lag (minimum 42...up to 68 ms). Although I suppose even the VX24 isn't much better at 41-59 (or 30-60 from TFTcentral). I never even realized either panel had so much lag, but that's how today's industry is, I guess. Needless to say you should be more worried about input lag than response time and the VX has less of it.

The Lenovo simply has no pro reviews so I can't recommend it.

 

[notnyt]

I just ran the PX2611w through a ton of tests. Original post can be found here:
http://www.hardforum.com/showp...32066757&postcount=703

I tried to quote but this doesn't support ubb stuff and I dont really need to spend the time doing it again, just view original post.

 

[Trean]

I might be not the best test case but I spent the last 5 years on a 17" CRT and I cannot see any ghosting on the VX2435wm. Of course I haven't strenuously tested it, the fastest game I play at the moment is Team Fortress 2 and like I said can't notice ghosting personally.

Also there is a $100 mail in rebate currently for the VX2435wm so it is no where near $700 in price. I would say that the cheapest price is around $615 but the rebate is limited to certain stores and those have the price before rebate around $640-650 which is about 550 after rebate. I don't know if the rebate is US specific or something like that which deters some people obviously.

I would go with xtknight's rec of the VX2435wm... I did .

 

[muppet22]

are there any 1920x1200 native reso pva monitors out there with good response time (~1 frame lag)?

or any coming soon?? the 275t plus perhaps?

 

[muppet22]

oh i just read the x-bit labs review of the 275t..

The monitor has a good response time, for an S-PVA matrix: 9.8 milliseconds GtG on average with a maximum of 13.9 milliseconds.

with a 1.2% avg RTC error..hmmm..
any others monitors like this?

 

[Jephph]

xtknight, what do you think about the EIZO CE240W-BK as compared to your top pick of the 25.5" NEC MultiSync LCD2690WUXi for print-target photo editing?

 

[brencat]

Originally posted by: notnyt
I just ran the PX2611w through a ton of tests. Original post can be found here:
http://www.hardforum.com/showp...32066757&postcount=703

Thanks for that notnyt. From your post at Hardforum, it looks amazing post-calibration.

Still not sure about the QC though. Some guys over there are already on their 3rd RMA.

 

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: muppet22
oh i just read the x-bit labs review of the 275t..

The monitor has a good response time, for an S-PVA matrix: 9.8 milliseconds GtG on average with a maximum of 13.9 milliseconds.

with a 1.2% avg RTC error..hmmm..
any others monitors like this?

wait do these numbers include the 2 frame input lag reported on hardforum...?

is it 33ms + 14ms total delay?

 

[notnyt]

Originally posted by: brencat

Originally posted by: notnyt
I just ran the PX2611w through a ton of tests. Original post can be found here:
http://www.hardforum.com/showp...32066757&postcount=703

Thanks for that notnyt. From your post at Hardforum, it looks amazing post-calibration.

Still not sure about the QC though. Some guys over there are already on their 3rd RMA.

so are people with their NEC's

My first NEC was hosed too, second one had a dead pixel

 

[noriveia]

Sorry but there is waaay to much to read through to see if soemone allready asked this sorry if it is repititious. I'm a wedding photographer by trade and need a good print match screen, But am also a hardcore gamer COD4 crysis TF2 all that good fast paced stuff I really dont want to buy two screen and switch back and forth so I need a monitor that can do both well I was thinking the:

Planar PX2611W

any opinions? anything pretty close to this but a little cheaper maybe? like hows the

planar PX2411W ?

 

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: muppet22

Originally posted by: muppet22
oh i just read the x-bit labs review of the 275t..

The monitor has a good response time, for an S-PVA matrix: 9.8 milliseconds GtG on average with a maximum of 13.9 milliseconds.

with a 1.2% avg RTC error..hmmm..
any others monitors like this?

wait do these numbers include the 2 frame input lag reported on hardforum...?

is it 33ms + 14ms total delay?

Image Delay (rt+lag, estimated): Medium (33 ms)

Please note that this measurement ("image delay") is the sum of response time and input lag.

shouldn't the "image delay" for it be 33ms + 14ms = 47ms?

xtknight?

 

[wankzit]

Originally posted by: Trean
I might be not the best test case but I spent the last 5 years on a 17" CRT and I cannot see any ghosting on the VX2435wm. Of course I haven't strenuously tested it, the fastest game I play at the moment is Team Fortress 2 and like I said can't notice ghosting personally.

Also there is a $100 mail in rebate currently for the VX2435wm so it is no where near $700 in price. I would say that the cheapest price is around $615 but the rebate is limited to certain stores and those have the price before rebate around $640-650 which is about 550 after rebate. I don't know if the rebate is US specific or something like that which deters some people obviously.

I would go with xtknight's rec of the VX2435wm... I did .

All the prices I listed were CAD, after shipping and TAX. The rebate also only applies to US customers. What's more confusing is I'm getting reports of the VX2435 being discontinued (some say as of Dec 10.) I'm gonna keep looking, but I'm not hopeful at this point.

Anyhow thanks to you and xtknight for the info. Now to see if I can find it...

 

[muppet22]

from what i've read on hardforum and extremetech, the planar is an H-IPS panel just like the NECs

http://www.hardforum.com/showt...d.php?t=1180069&page=8
http://www.extremetech.com/art.../0,1697,2193634,00.asp

Image Delay (rt+lag): 16 ms (~1 frame)

isn't the input lag 1 frame? i was having trouble finding the actual response time for it, but extremetech was saying that:

There's a bit of smearing in some fast scenes of DVDs; again, this is neither the best nor worst we have seen in this regard, but really rather average.

so i would think that the "image delay" you have listed for it is way off and should be something more like 30ms or 45ms.

is there something i'm missing here?

 

[Timeetyo]

XT:

Have you heard anything about the BenQ G2400W? It'd be that or a 245BW for gaming, what do ya think?

Thanks..

 

[muppet22]

i noticed on tftcentral.co.uk that CMO and Samsung recently released new panel specs..how long does it usually take for these to be made into products and up for sale?

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: muppet22
from what i've read on hardforum and extremetech, the planar is an H-IPS panel just like the NECs

http://www.hardforum.com/showt...d.php?t=1180069&page=8
http://www.extremetech.com/art.../0,1697,2193634,00.asp

Image Delay (rt+lag): 16 ms (~1 frame)

isn't the input lag 1 frame? i was having trouble finding the actual response time for it, but extremetech was saying that:

There's a bit of smearing in some fast scenes of DVDs; again, this is neither the best nor worst we have seen in this regard, but really rather average.

so i would think that the "image delay" you have listed for it is way off and should be something more like 30ms or 45ms.

is there something i'm missing here?

XT's image delay (1 frame) includes the 5ms response time and 12ms of lag.

Smearing (as opposed to ghosting) is not necessarily caused by slow response times as far as I know. Judging by some test patterns I've seen, its possible for still images to have smearing...

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: BDawg
I'm sure this has been covered in the thread, but 3000 posts is kinda hard to sort through.

Is there a 22" model that has HDMI and a scaler so it will support 720p and 1080i/p images?

I'm looking for something to hook up to my computer, but also be able to use with my PS3 and 360.

The Gateway HD2200 looked good, but reviews said it has horrible color.

There aren't any models that would have better color than the HD2200 probably, since they're also all TNs. That might be your only choice. That's the only one I know of that would support it, but Sceptre or Westinghouse may have models that support 1080i. I'm not sure.

These are just examples, I'm not sure of actual input support or scaling support on these.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824255003
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824112009
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824001238

A quick search of Newegg may reveal more, and once you find a model you like you might look on HardForum to see if anyone has tested inputs with it. I can't provide this information because I don't test that many LCDs (at least not any 22" multimedia ones), and you can't rely on anything when it comes to manufacturers/LCDs. Scalers have had countless problems and issues, on certain units of monitors. You can probably count on getting some type of acceptable image though (usually Fill works fine if the input is supported at all).

How about 24" sets? Do most of the ones with a 1920x1080 panel support 1:1, HD resolutions, or scaling from 720p?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: EGGO
Just wanted to say thanks for that OP. I'm looking for a cheap monitor with great color reproduction and you helped me out to the very purchase.

The only question I have is how are you able to tell what panel-type you have when it comes to those that are panel lotteries?

It depends on the model. Some say on the box (indirectly via codes decoded by fellow buyers and often posted on HardForum). Most say in some form in the service menu.

If you're going to be returning a monitor because of panel type, you should really be able to tell what kind of panel you want and what you don't want just by looking at the screen. Otherwise, IMO, you have no justification to be returning it if you can't figure out why you don't like it.

MVA panels will have some shifting of gray when you look from one side to another (dark images).