[Retired] The LCD Thread

[notnyt]

Just thought I'd update. I received my new PX2611w today. It did MUCH better right out of the box than the old one, with no backlight bleed or stuck pixels.

here is the test before calibration:

http://countercultured.net/cal...11w/px2611w-before.jpg

enjoy.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Tasiin
xtknight - what are your thoughts on widescreen vs. 4:3 in the 20" range? I know you recommended the 2007WFP earlier, but I'm left wondering what the advantage of widescreen in this size is exactly. It seems like you trade pixel density, compatibility, and a lot of vertical for only a little width. I've read that it makes running multiple maximized programs side by side a little easier, but going by the numbers alone (1600x1200 and 1680x1050) it doesn't seem like it'd make much of a difference. 1050 vertical wouldn't be a huge step up from my CRT's 960, either. Is there some sort of advantage to widescreen that I'm overlooking, aside from movie watching of course?

The advantage to widescreen is that it fills your eye's field-of-view better. It can actually look larger but this is just an illusion.

Judging off the 2007FP I saw today vs. my 20WMGX2 I actually think the 20WMGX2 looks larger. That is an illusion though but it does fill your field-of-view better and might be easier on the eyes.

That doesn't mean a regular aspect 20" is a bad choice, I just prefer widescreen, I guess. If it were between 22" wide and 20" std 22" would win any day, even if it was a TN IMO. Unless the 20" was some sweet LED display or something.

I may not have much choice either way, because the 2007FP is very expensive right now (and apparently a crapshoot due to the lottery) and the LP2065 is also a pretty big gamble. If there's no really point to 16:10 for me though, I could always try waiting a few weeks to see if the pricing/availability situation improves for either of those.

Just go for the widescreen, I really doubt you'll regret it. Worst case you'll just have to get used to a couple things not working the way they do on 4:3. Check widescreen gaming compatiblity also, but most games today are just fine. Nine year old Quake 3 has been ready ever since the beginning for custom resolutions.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: zod96
Are their any 8 bit low MS 20 or 22 inch LCD's out their besides the nec 20wmgx2?

Not really. The HP LP2065 and Dell 2007FP are closer to 8-bit though. You'll probably find dithering in the PVA panels but that doesn't matter. Hardly anyone notices dithering anymore and 8-bit is pretty overrated.

If you want 20" S-IPS panels then you're out of luck. The Samsung 215TW has high input lag but it's true 8-bit AFAIK.

 

[muppet22]

i miss 4:3 in some games
warcraft3 stretches to wide
and im not even sure if/how starcraft looks. i should try it tonight.
in cs and css you actually get to see more with widescreen

 

[xtknight]

Just a note: there are surely different anti-glare coatings out there.

The Dell 2007FP I saw at work today had the worst coating imagineable...I hated it. It was very hard on the eyes (or should I say it was just plain distracting) and I would hate to live with that. It wasn't glossy but it was an anti-glare coating with what looks like fuzz all over it. Sorry Tasiin I don't know if the 2007WFP is the same way. I'd probably get used to it on second thought but definitely not a big fan of it.

On the other hand the LCD26 has a crystal clear anti-glare coating with none of that ugly fuzz stuff. I'm pretty sure the LG 22" model is good too in that aspect. My VP930b is closer to the ugly coating but the Dell's is the worst I've seen in awhile.

I believe most are immune to the horrible coatings but you'll still come across it in a few models.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Engraver

Originally posted by: muppet22

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: muppet22
so i've had a change of heart with the dell 3007wfp-hc..although i'm sure it is nice and all, after looking for a new video card i've come to the conlusion that it's native resolution is just to high to get good fps while gaming.

so i've turned to the 24"-27" size category. i think 1900x1200 will be just fine. the problem is there weren't many IPS panels in this range..the planar 25.5" seems to be the best option, although ToastyX's review over on HardForum was kind of scary.

what i'm most interested is no backlight bleeding, deep blacks with the lights off (i.e. nice for movies), low response times (for fps games), and lastly some sort of viewing angles (although i could sacrifice this)...so far i think my best options are: Planar PX2611W, Samsung 275T, Samsung 245BW, but i haven't really looked into it very thoroughly yet. i'm not really interested in perfect colors, so i'm not sure if the NEC LCD2X90WUXi's or planar are for me.

what do you guys think?

Maybe the Samsung 275T will suit you well. It has great response time. The only thing is, I don't know about input lag. It wasn't mentioned in the reviews I saw. I was going to be optimistic and say that since the 305T wasn't too bad, nor was the 275T, but I can't confirm this.

The 275T Plus, a new model, is due out soon and unfortunately I wouldn't just jump on this assuming it's only better. There are times when the successors of popular LCDs are actually worse (e.g. Samsung 2232BW vs older 226BW).

Until then the Planar really is a good bet because it has very low input lag. Better than the 245BW since the 24" TN's viewing angles might be frustrating, and plus the colors won't be as true. The LCD2690 probably has more lag than you'd like (I measure 50 ms).

people on hardforum recorded 2 frames of input delay on the 275T. i've decided against getting a TN (so no 245BW)..the planar's reviews i've seen are a bit unnerving..especially that it doesn't have as deep of blacks as the 275T

I tried the 275T before the PX2611W. Coming from the 20WMGX2 which had virtually no input lag, the 275T was a nightmare. In some games it isn't really noticeable (Crysis), and others it seems extremely bad (Bioshock). It does have really good color and blacks though, even with that color shifting PVA crap, the colors pop out at you much more than the Planar. I would have kept it even with the color shift if it wasn't for the input lag.

That's actually interesting but good to note some people prefer qualities of PVA panels (at least if input lag isn't a problem).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: notnyt
Just thought I'd update. I received my new PX2611w today. It did MUCH better right out of the box than the old one, with no backlight bleed or stuck pixels.

here is the test before calibration:

http://countercultured.net/cal...11w/px2611w-before.jpg

enjoy.

That's cool. I'm not sure if everyone's PX2611W will be like that though.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: The Keeper
I just got my brand new LG L227WT half-a-week ago and I love it. No problems whatsoever so far, I haven't noticed any ghosting or input lag. My previous LCD was Samsung Syncmaster 172X (17") though. I don't know how games look like in lower resolutions because I haven't tried yet, but 1680x1050 looks great.

Claims 100% gamut and 10,000:1 contrast. Wow.

In reality your old PVA may have had higher contrast but I'm glad you like the L227WT. I will probably recommend it since the L226WT was good. I know I certainly prefer bigger TNs over smaller PVAs.

 

[Tasiin]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Just go for the widescreen, I really doubt you'll regret it. Worst case you'll just have to get used to a couple things not working the way they do on 4:3. Check widescreen gaming compatiblity also, but most games today are just fine. Nine year old Quake 3 has been ready ever since the beginning for custom resolutions.

Okay, you've convinced me.

It's been ordered. Hopefully I win the lottery.

Not too worried about compatibility with recent games, but I know I have a couple older ones that will have to be run centered at 1400x1050 if I don't use my CRT. It's not a big deal, though.

Originally posted by: xtknight
The Dell 2007FP I saw at work today had the worst coating imagineable...I hated it. It was very hard on the eyes (or should I say it was just plain distracting) and I would hate to live with that. It wasn't glossy but it was an anti-glare coating with what looks like fuzz all over it. Sorry Tasiin I don't know if the 2007WFP is the same way. I'd probably get used to it on second thought but definitely not a big fan of it.

I've heard some people say it's a bit excessive on the 2007s, but I think I'd prefer heavy AG to a glossy screen like the 20WMGX2 personally. The 20WMGX2 was so glossy that it was significantly more reflective than any Trinitron I've ever used, to the point where it was just distracting. Combined with the IPS panel's orange-purple bleed in the corners, it was pretty unpleasant to look at on dark colors. It would be nice if there were some sort of middle ground between the two extremes available at this size, though.

Is there any way to tell what type of coating it uses exactly? I use a Sony SDM-HS53 LCD with anti-glare on my second computer, and it doesn't bother me at all. It's a much smaller monitor though, and fairly old. It does have a slightly "dusty" appearance, but it's not something I notice during general usage.

At any rate, even with my absolutely terrible luck with monitors the worst that will happen is that I'll have to return it and (maybe) have to pay a bit of a restocking fee. It's worth trying out.

 

[zod96]

Yeah I've gone back to the nec 20wmgx2 from the samsung 2232gw. After looking at both of them side by side, their really is no comparison, the nec's colors are much much better and the view angles are no contest. The samsung was easier on the eyes, but if I move the nec closer to me its much better. But of course somehow in the process my nec now has a nice hair inside the screen, I have no idea how a hair could get into the screen. Its like right in the middle of it. And ideas on how to get rid of it? I wonder if I could rma it....

 

[muppet22]

bleh i dunno what to get

 

[JASTECH]

zod96, try a comb! LOL, I had to say it. I would RMA it.

 

[zod96]

Yeah I called Nec rma dept, their systems are down today, figures. They said call back tomorrow. I'll get the cross ship option for $50 so I get a new one by like thursday. I tried somethings, it moved the hair but it didn't get rid of it...

 

[zod96]

Yeah I called Nec rma dept, their systems are down today, figures. They said call back tomorrow. I'll get the cross ship option for $50 so I get a new one by like thursday. I tried somethings, it moved the hair but it didn't get rid of it...

 

[JASTECH]

Originally posted by: Teslacoiled

Originally posted by: Tephras

Originally posted by: JASTECH
xtknight, I am still looking at the NEC LCD monitors but the black of my SONY G520 would be missed I think? I have read a little on the LED backlight but not sure if this is the series to wait for or what? My SONY has horizontel lines (11 of them) going from large to small gaps from bottom to top. I was told its the capasotors leaking and it is washed out unless I correct with my 8800 GTS. Can you shed some Light Emitting Diode on this? (Pun intended)

Interesting, I had to join this forum after reading your post because I have the exact same thing showing up on my monitor and have not been able to find any info on the net about it. My monitor is a Dell-branded 21" Sony Trinitron and googling for "trinitron faint horizontal lines" and similar searches will, of course, only give me explanations of the shadow mask support wires on these type of CRTs.
On my monitor there are 15 horizontal, slightly angled, lines across the screen and these lines have been visible for at least a year now. Where did you hear that leaking capacitors is the efficient cause?

Jastech and Tephras

I have a Sony F520, and I had those lines for months, 2 years ago. Then one day I started clicking/trying everything in the monitor's OSD! The Image Restoration did it!!! And I haven't seen any lines since then. I just didn't use it for a very very long time before that. Now it's once a week for me. :-D
I hope it''ll be that easy for you two, please post back and tell us!

Yes it did work!! Now I see very black blacks and vivid colors. I have a pic of the color test but no way to post it here. I hope this will last long enough to get the money for a NEC 2490. Thanks for your advise and it took me a little while to find that on this monitor.

 

[muppet22]

is there any benefit to having a wide gamut monitor if all i do is play games and watch movies? do either of those utilize wide gamut?

in the 275T, is there a way to switch to sRGB instead of wide gamut? (i'm too lazy to look -_-)

 

[Buck Armstrong]

OK, my Planar PX2611W is here. I've only had it for about 3 hours, but here's a quick comparison with the NEC 2470WNX:

1. The HardOCP forum pages (dark gray on black) and certain test images make the color/contrast shift of the 2470 S-PVA painfully obvious. I really didn't think it was that bad before, but I can tell you now I'll probably never buy anything but IPS again.

2. The black levels on the 2470 are better, but the Planar destroys it in every other way. There's no color/contrast shift, but the IPS "white glow" is noticeable at extreme angles. Viewing angles are still vastly superior on the Planar than the NEC.

3. The Planar has 3 stuck pixels. They're very difficult to see (I have to get right up to the screen), and all but one (red) are not visible except on all black screens. I could definitely live with it, but since I paid so much and got it from CDW (30 days w/2-day replacement), I'm going to RMA it. The NEC had zero dead/stuck pixels.

4. The combination of larger screen size and pixel pitch is exactly what I hoped it would be. Text was just as sharp on the NEC 24", but my old eyes were having a problem with it. I had to increase Windows DPI by 10% and set fonts to 10 point to comfortably use it. The Planar is perfect at Windows DPI and 9 point font defaults. I can see everything clearly, down to the details in Vista micro-icons. I can see the pixels on the Planar (higher pitch), which I couldn't on the NEC, but if the "screen-door" bothers you, sitting farther from the screen fixes it (and also allows you to see all of the huge 26" screen). Bottom line: if you have any problems with 1920x1200 on a 24", this monitor is perfect for you.

Conclusion: the NEC seems like better build quality/quality control (no dead/stuck pixels, no backlight bleeding, great manual, packaging, drivers and software) and has better blacks, but is slower and with twice the lag and much worse viewing angles. The Planar feels more like a plain "OEM" part (plain brown box and packing, puny manual, no drivers or software, 3 stuck pixels), and has worse blacks, but is superior in every other way and has half the lag. Also, the bigger size and pitch make it a much better fit for me. Furthermore, the Planar warranty is better than NEC's, and as far as I can tell is the best in the business.

For me, the Planar wins despite its faults. In the last 3 months, I've owned the best S-PVAs that ViewSonic and NEC make (VP2130b & 2470WNX). The 2470WNX was much better than the ViewSonic, but its still a PVA; and now that I've had a chance to compare, its clear that no amount of "high-quality NEC aura" can fix that. IPS is worth the money. So my recommendation for anyone looking for a 24-27" monitor is: If you can swing the extra $150, don't even waste your time with a 24" and/or non-IPS; get the Planar. Period.

Now I need to go try some games and see if I can tell the difference in response time and input lag...

 

[muppet22]

lol i just read this same post on hardforum..and then i read it here and was like, "hmm did i read this already??"

 

[zod96]

Are their any 8 bit panels widescreen that are glossy besides the nec 20wmgx2? How good or bad is the HP W2207 vs. the Nec 20wmgx2? And I am assuming the HP uses a TN panel..

 

[Buck Armstrong]

OK, now that I've played some games on the Planar PX2611W, I can safely say I'm finally satisfied with an LCD.

For anyone who wonders if input lag and/or PVA limitations (contrast/color shift and loss of detail in darks when viewing dead-on) make a big difference, let me tell you: they do. I'll never buy anything but IPS again.

 

[minddripper]

I've been looking into the possibility of replacing my 19" CRT with a second LCD for a while now, but the search has left me a bit confused and lost. My main problem is that it is difficult for me to understand exactly how all of these monitors compare to my current LCD.

I bought a Dell 2005FPW a few years ago (to replace my 19" CRT), but was bothered by the blurring that occurred while gaming. I ended up using them both in a dual monitor setup, the CRT primarily for gaming. In my opinion, the 2005FPW is superior to my CRT in every aspect except the motion blurring. I use my computer for gaming (somewhere between casual and hardcore), watching videos/movies, CAD work, and regular office type tasks. I think my favorite features of my LCD are its sharpness, colors, and contrast. I don't think low viewing angles would be a problem for me, as I'm almost always square in front of my screens. I am unsure if I would notice a difference between 8 bit and 6 bit panels, but I would ideally like the picture quality to be close or better than my current LCD. Basically, what I'm looking for is a 20-22" (1680x1050) monitor that is similar to my 2005FPW but has less blurring/ghosting. Is this realistic?

 

[Woggle]

I just built a new computer and I'm looking for a new monitor. I'll be using it mostly for games, browsing the web and typing schoolwork, with the possible movie once in awhile. Depending on the inputs, I may use it with a wii or xbox360 as well, but that's not critical.

I don't think I'll need a CRT-like response for games, but a low delay would be nice assuming the image quality doesn't suffer much. I looked at some lcds while I was buying the parts for my computer, and the (lack of) uniform vertical viewing angles on some of them really bothered me, especially from below. Other than viewing angle brightness/color shifts, there isn't anything that's critical, aside from defects like non-uniform backlighting, etc.

The 20WMGX2 seems to be what I'm looking for, but is a tad expensive. Also there's the problem of getting it from a reputable site if I can't find it locally.

Is there something similar that satisfies as many of those as possible, while being somewhat/slightly cheaper and more widely available? Preferably about 20-22", maybe 24", widescreen, and with a native resolution that an 8800gt can handle medium/high graphics settings at.

Failing that, where could I reliably get my hands on a 20WMGX2?

 

[The Keeper]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: The Keeper
I just got my brand new LG L227WT half-a-week ago and I love it. No problems whatsoever so far, I haven't noticed any ghosting or input lag. My previous LCD was Samsung Syncmaster 172X (17") though. I don't know how games look like in lower resolutions because I haven't tried yet, but 1680x1050 looks great.

Claims 100% gamut and 10,000:1 contrast. Wow.

In reality your old PVA may have had higher contrast but I'm glad you like the L227WT. I will probably recommend it since the L226WT was good. I know I certainly prefer bigger TNs over smaller PVAs.

The 172X is a TN panel as far as I know, not PVA.

If there's one thing I need to complain about in the L227WT, it is the stand. There's no height control at all. And when pressing the power button, you need to hold the panel. Otherwise you'll rotate the panel while pressing the button. The power button is however designed so that you use your thumb to press the power button and use index and middle finger to hold the panel. So it is fine after you get used to it.

 

[j0j081]

Originally posted by: zod96
Are their any 8 bit panels widescreen that are glossy besides the nec 20wmgx2? How good or bad is the HP W2207 vs. the Nec 20wmgx2? And I am assuming the HP uses a TN panel..

weren't you the one concerned with text size between a 19 and 22 inch. If so I can't believe you got a 20. yeah they look really nice and sharp for gaming or whatever but the text size is blinding if you read for longer than a few minutes.

 

[infinitesymphony]

I need a recommendation for a budget monitor, since the average prices for the best LCD monitors (mentioned in the first few posts) have dramatically increased. I guess everyone has $500+ to blow on a monitor these days.

I'm looking for a 20-22" widescreen for $250 or less. I've been considering the 20" Acer AL2016WCbd and the 22" Acer AL2216Wbd. Is there anything else worth comparing in that range?