[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: j0j081
I would get the Samsung 226bw or 2232bw despite the panel lottery. The 2232bws are calibrated pretty nicely no matter what version you get but there is a bit more input lag than the 226bw. the 226bw is soon going to be replaced by the 2253bw though so you might want to wait for that. it should be out any time now. all the Samsung's I mentioned are just about the best tns for gaming.

Sorry, but from what I can tell this simply isn't true.

They have equal response time, but the CMO panel has quite a distinct blue color cast and lower color accuracy (and, so far the AUO North America model has not been tested).

To make response time the same they actually slowed down the S panel! I think the RTC errors are gone on the C panel, though.

Whether or not with the blue cast the CMO 2232BW is superior to other 22"s, I don't really know. But the 2232BW panels are still very different color-wise. I believe the 2232BW is AUO in North America and this hasn't been tested as stated earlier so it's anyone's guess as to how it performs.

I'm really waiting for more solid reviews of this LCD (the CMO/AUO panels) before I put it on my list. Hopefully the 2253BW will be better and S-panel only, but no one knows. Till then I'll be sticking with the trusty ViewSonic VX2255wmb.

My list would be full of Samsungs if only they'd stick with the S panels. The 226BW and 2232BW S panels are easily best in industry in almost every aspect, it's just a shame they have to ruin it for everyone else who gets a CMO.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Triplehammer
The Dell 2408 has arrived, at a pricepoint of $699:

http://configure.us.dell.com/d...&l=en&cs=04&oc=2408wfp

Nice! Now let's see if the 2407WFP-HC's response issues have been solved.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Liran xD
Hello

I'm interested at a 22" monitor but before I even go to specific model I know all of them are TN and therefore have narrow viewing angles
this can be quite a problem for me and I wanted to ask - how serious is the problem of the angles?
I tried getting this information from reviews but it wasn't that clear
I watch videos from my bed and I took a picture as the camera stands where my head is supposed to be
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6452/dsc00778zb2.jpg
(the red box is probably where the LCD will be..the CRT just too thick to fit in there P: )
Do you think I'll have a problem watching movies on a 22" TN panel from that angle ?
If the picture is not informative enough tell me from where to take another one

Thanks in advanced,
Liran.

I think that will be pretty problematic. You'll probably be missing a third of the screen due to color shifting. The only way to know for sure anyway is to try it, I'm just giving you my best guess.

What dragon said is definitely a good point. If you can tilt it then it may not be a problem at all.

 

[redlinez33]

Hey remember me?

Well I ordered a DELL 2408WFP the day it came out, soon as I get it I will post initial impressions....

 

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: muppet22
is there any benefit to having a wide gamut monitor if all i do is play games and watch movies? do either of those utilize wide gamut?

in the 275T, is there a way to switch to sRGB instead of wide gamut? (i'm too lazy to look -_-)

Games and movies are probably the best uses of wide gamut, aside from print-matching.

I'm pretty sure the 275T has an sRGB mode but it might only be color temperature switching, not gamut mapping. I don't see why you'd want to go back to sRGB anyways at least for games and movies. They usually look great with it.

oh? i was under the impression that most things running on a computer (with win xp pro) will be displayed in sRGB..and that if you have a WG monitor and use it in a non-color-managed environment, then the colors wont be right or something? unless you use an application that utilizes WG?

i should have been more specific when i said games and movies: i mean computer games solely (no xbox or ps3) and movies in AVI format (no dvds) - do those use WG? does it matter?

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Interesting.

I'm starting to think color shift on S-PVAs (like the NEC) is actually worse than P-MVAs.

Actually, the color/contrast shift didn't bother me too much because its only obvious in certain situations, but the real problem is the one you've warned about: dark areas definitely lose detail when viewed straight-on. I just didn't realize how bad it was until I had an IPS to compare side-by-side.

For instance, in the training level of COD4, there's a black suitcase on a shelf; with the NEC, its a solid black shape unless looked at from an off-angle, which reveals some texture detail and different shades of black and gray. On the Planar, all details and shades are visible from any angle. In dark games like FEAR or Doom 3, or when editing grayscale images, this is a HUGE consideration. Why invest in a $300+ video card if your monitor is going to hide textures and shadow details?

The only real disappointments with the Planar are weaker blacks than the NEC and the IPS "white glow" (the two seem to be related), but tweaking contrast, brightness, and gamma has alleviated this somewhat. I still love the 2470WNX and believe its the best 24" available other than the 2490, but the bottom line is that the drawbacks of IPS are just much less painful than those of PVA, especially when you consider the faster response time and lower lag.

 

[Gordon Airporte]

I won the lotto! (And so can you.)
Well, let's hope. I read through the HP LP2065 lotto thread on Hardforums
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1162417
and I noted that the AMVA panels people reported were manufactured in Dec., Mar., and Apr. of 2007 while S-IPS panels were manufactured in Mar, May, Jun, Jul, Aug and Nov 2007. So it /looks/ like the AMVA panels were an aberration and S-IPS panels are the standard.

Anyway, I bit the bullet and ordered one from Newegg, received it today (2/20/2008), the box says revision GSM002 from Oct. 2007, and the service menu says shows the proper LPL LM201U05-SLA1 panel, rev 115.

And speaking of lottos, in another Hardforums thread someone mentioned receiving a S-IPS Dell 2007WFP (at least I assume it was the wide panel and not the 2007FP, the poster wasn't explicit) manufactured Jan. 2008, so those might be worth taking a shot at too of you act fast.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

XT:

As long as I'm on the subject, how bad was the "white glow" on the 20WMGX2? I'm assuming the glossy screen made blacks blacker and therefore offset it quite a bit...? I'd also guess from Toasty's photos that the "true white" polarizer on the 2690 pretty much eliminates it altogether?

So comparing your 20WMGX2 to your 2690, which is the glow more noticeable on? Which does blacks better; the new H-IPS w/TW Pol, or the old AS-IPS w/glossy coating?

 

[notnyt]

Originally posted by: Gordon Airporte
I won the lotto! (And so can you.)
Well, let's hope. I read through the HP LP2065 lotto thread on Hardforums
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1162417
and I noted that the AMVA panels people reported were manufactured in Dec., Mar., and Apr. of 2007 while S-IPS panels were manufactured in Mar, May, Jun, Jul, Aug and Nov 2007. So it /looks/ like the AMVA panels were an aberration and S-IPS panels are the standard.

Anyway, I bit the bullet and ordered one from Newegg, received it today (2/20/2008), the box says revision GSM002 from Oct. 2007, and the service menu says shows the proper LPL LM201U05-SLA1 panel, rev 115.

And speaking of lottos, in another Hardforums thread someone mentioned receiving a S-IPS Dell 2007WFP (at least I assume it was the wide panel and not the 2007FP, the poster wasn't explicit) manufactured Jan. 2008, so those might be worth taking a shot at too of you act fast.

I wouldn't count on all of them being able to tell the difference between reality and wishful thinking. Do you have a link of the post?

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: notnyt

Originally posted by: Gordon Airporte
I won the lotto! (And so can you.)
Well, let's hope. I read through the HP LP2065 lotto thread on Hardforums
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1162417
and I noted that the AMVA panels people reported were manufactured in Dec., Mar., and Apr. of 2007 while S-IPS panels were manufactured in Mar, May, Jun, Jul, Aug and Nov 2007. So it /looks/ like the AMVA panels were an aberration and S-IPS panels are the standard.

Anyway, I bit the bullet and ordered one from Newegg, received it today (2/20/2008), the box says revision GSM002 from Oct. 2007, and the service menu says shows the proper LPL LM201U05-SLA1 panel, rev 115.

And speaking of lottos, in another Hardforums thread someone mentioned receiving a S-IPS Dell 2007WFP (at least I assume it was the wide panel and not the 2007FP, the poster wasn't explicit) manufactured Jan. 2008, so those might be worth taking a shot at too of you act fast.

I wouldn't count on all of them being able to tell the difference between reality and wishful thinking. Do you have a link of the post?

Furthermore, I refuse to buy a display from any company that plays the panel lottery game. As soon as we all quit buying that sh*t, they'll stop doing it.

I'll buy your $1000 monitor, and all I ask is that you tell me exactly what I'm getting. You don't see Nvidia charging $300 for a GF4 in an 8800GT box, do you?

 

[j0j081]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: j0j081
I would get the Samsung 226bw or 2232bw despite the panel lottery. The 2232bws are calibrated pretty nicely no matter what version you get but there is a bit more input lag than the 226bw. the 226bw is soon going to be replaced by the 2253bw though so you might want to wait for that. it should be out any time now. all the Samsung's I mentioned are just about the best tns for gaming.

Sorry, but from what I can tell this simply isn't true.

They have equal response time, but the CMO panel has quite a distinct blue color cast and lower color accuracy (and, so far the AUO North America model has not been tested).

To make response time the same they actually slowed down the S panel! I think the RTC errors are gone on the C panel, though.

Whether or not with the blue cast the CMO 2232BW is superior to other 22"s, I don't really know. But the 2232BW panels are still very different color-wise. I believe the 2232BW is AUO in North America and this hasn't been tested as stated earlier so it's anyone's guess as to how it performs.

I'm really waiting for more solid reviews of this LCD (the CMO/AUO panels) before I put it on my list. Hopefully the 2253BW will be better and S-panel only, but no one knows. Till then I'll be sticking with the trusty ViewSonic VX2255wmb.

My list would be full of Samsungs if only they'd stick with the S panels. The 226BW and 2232BW S panels are easily best in industry in almost every aspect, it's just a shame they have to ruin it for everyone else who gets a CMO.

The 2232BW I am testing now has a CMO panel. I did notice the blue dominance shortly after first using it however it wasn't as bad as on the 226bw I once tested with a CMO panel. I would assume you have seen this review specifically of the CMO version.

http://translate.google.com/tr...%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:*

they have a color profile on the right of that page and after installing it the colors of this 2232bw very closely resemble those on my old 931BW S Panel. I wasn't aware the 2232BW even had an A panel. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere I've been doing my research. Maybe the Viewsonic you speak of is safer to go with but I don't think there is anything wrong with getting a Samsung from a store you can easily return it at if it doesn't suit you.

From what I've been reading the intitial shipments of Samsung lcds are always S panels because to begin with they are made in Korea. Apparently though, because they cost so much to manufacturer in Korea if all the panels were to be made there the price of these lcds would have to be at least doubled. That is why they have to outsource to places with cheaper labor. I guess if you could be one of the first people to buy a 2253BW when it hits stores you would almost certainly get an S panel. I am thinking of doing that myself.

 

[zod96]

I will say this about the samsung 2232GW it had a very bad blue ting to it. No matter how I adjusted the settings, on a white background their was always this blue ting to it. That's why I decided to stick with the 20wmgx2...

 

[ericinho]

hello all,

What a wonderful thread this is!

I have a short and probably stupid question...

Dell sells 2 24" screens, the DELL E248WFP and the DELL Ultrasharp 2408WFP. Apart from that the first is much cheaper, i can't really find a good comparrison (they both list different tech aspects: http://accessories.us.dell.com...ategory_id=6761&~ck=bt ).

Anyone who could explain why the one is much more expensive and possibly better than the other one?

Cheers!

 

[Gordon Airporte]

Originally posted by: notnyt
I wouldn't count on all of them being able to tell the difference between reality and wishful thinking. Do you have a link of the post?

It sounds like it's the usual matter of checking a service menu and some manufacturing codes. Also something about a 'purple tint' indicating S-IPS, which I agree is pretty sketchy by itself.

The Jan. 2008 monitor is mentioned in the middle of the page here:
http://www.hardforum.com/showt...hlight=2007wfp&page=82

There appear to be other issues with the Dell monitor(s) and the lotto seems rather more volatile, which is why I opted for the LP2065, which delivered the panel I expected and which has not shown up any visual faults at all for me yet.

 

[nevbie]

Originally posted by: Gordon Airporte
and I noted that the AMVA panels people reported were manufactured in Dec., Mar., and Apr. of 2007 while S-IPS panels were manufactured in Mar, May, Jun, Jul, Aug and Nov 2007. So it /looks/ like the AMVA panels were an aberration and S-IPS panels are the standard.

Anyway, I bit the bullet and ordered one from Newegg, received it today (2/20/2008), the box says revision GSM002 from Oct. 2007, and the service menu says shows the proper LPL LM201U05-SLA1 panel, rev 115.

I think you mean that the MVA monitors were manufactured in december 2006, not in december 2007..

The hardforum thread ensured me that there are no MVA LP2065s out there anymore.. not in a long time, otherwise someone would scream!

So I decided to get the 2065, and mine is also a GSM002 (December 2007 though). I didn't connect it to a PC so it keeps saying check input or so, but even from that screen I can note that the black gets a purple tint when watched from side.. unlike this laptop screen I'm watching right now.

Honestly, it is quite a funny idea that one should check what the firmware name says, as they could theoretically use a "wrong" firmware (in the cases of a lottery) or at least a wrong name for the right firmware. The purple tint seems like the most panel-bound thing here, and it's easy to spot.

Btw, thanks for the great LCD thread xtknight, I've followed this one for quite a long time now.

 

[notnyt]

Originally posted by: Gordon Airporte

Originally posted by: notnyt
I wouldn't count on all of them being able to tell the difference between reality and wishful thinking. Do you have a link of the post?

It sounds like it's the usual matter of checking a service menu and some manufacturing codes. Also something about a 'purple tint' indicating S-IPS, which I agree is pretty sketchy by itself.

The Jan. 2008 monitor is mentioned in the middle of the page here:
http://www.hardforum.com/showt...hlight=2007wfp&page=82

There appear to be other issues with the Dell monitor(s) and the lotto seems rather more volatile, which is why I opted for the LP2065, which delivered the panel I expected and which has not shown up any visual faults at all for me yet.

ah interesting, i thought your original post said 2407 i must have been tired.

 

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: ericinho
hello all,

What a wonderful thread this is!

I have a short and probably stupid question...

Dell sells 2 24" screens, the DELL E248WFP and the DELL Ultrasharp 2408WFP. Apart from that the first is much cheaper, i can't really find a good comparrison (they both list different tech aspects: http://accessories.us.dell.com...ategory_id=6761&~ck=bt ).

Anyone who could explain why the one is much more expensive and possibly better than the other one?

Cheers!

E248WFP: panel: TN; inputs: vga, dvi-d;
2408WFP: panel: S-PVA; inputs: vga, dvi-d, s-video, composite, component, hdmi, displayport, 4x usb, 9-in-2 media card reader; overdrive, pic-in-pic

and i think the 2408wfp has a higher contrast ratio

 

[Gordon Airporte]

Originally posted by: nevbie

I think you mean that the MVA monitors were manufactured in december 2006, not in december 2007..

The hardforum thread ensured me that there are no MVA LP2065s out there anymore.. not in a long time, otherwise someone would scream!

Yep - my mistake about the dates.
I would love to think that HP saw the error of their ways and pulled the MVA's, never to be seen again. Perhaps the thing with the LP2065 being listed under two product numbers, one with a discount, was a scheme to flush the supply chain of the old panels so they can deliver all S-IPS now.
Yet, they've shown that they're capable of dishonesty. As safe as I think it is to order now, there's still a cloud hanging over the whole thing.

So I decided to get the 2065, and mine is also a GSM002 (December 2007 though). I didn't connect it to a PC so it keeps saying check input or so, but even from that screen I can note that the black gets a purple tint when watched from side.. unlike this laptop screen I'm watching right now.

Ahhh, okay. I was looking for the tint with the monitor turned on... The codes obviously aren't a subjective thing, and I doubt they'd cheat on the codes because it would make things difficult for repair techs or whoever the codes are intended for.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: muppet22
oh? i was under the impression that most things running on a computer (with win xp pro) will be displayed in sRGB..and that if you have a WG monitor and use it in a non-color-managed environment, then the colors wont be right or something? unless you use an application that utilizes WG?

i should have been more specific when i said games and movies: i mean computer games solely (no xbox or ps3) and movies in AVI format (no dvds) - do those use WG? does it matter?

Like I said, if you're gaming (on PC) or watching movies, don't worry about it. There's nothing you can do about those, but they look good anyway.

You can get a color managed browser like Firefox 3 alpha and Photoshop will perform gamut mapping for photo editing if you set proper ICC profiles.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
XT:

As long as I'm on the subject, how bad was the "white glow" on the 20WMGX2? I'm assuming the glossy screen made blacks blacker and therefore offset it quite a bit...? I'd also guess from Toasty's photos that the "true white" polarizer on the 2690 pretty much eliminates it altogether?

So comparing your 20WMGX2 to your 2690, which is the glow more noticeable on? Which does blacks better; the new H-IPS w/TW Pol, or the old AS-IPS w/glossy coating?

The purple tint at wide angles on the 20WMGX2 is much worse (although easily bearable on anything but black nonetheless). The TW (true wide) polarizer helps this a lot.

The glossy panel on the 20WMGX2 causes reflections in dark images and it crushes dark detail. The LCD26 is better here (maybe because of adjustable DAC or coating).

I don't really know what you mean by white glow. The S-IPS panels do have a higher black level. The 20WMGX2's black doesn't seem to be as 'bright' as the LCD26 (meaning the 20WMGX2 appears darker to me). That's mostly because of the coating.

 

[zod96]

Just got my replacement 20wmgx2 and it sucks. Its got about 5 dead pixels and about 20 stuck pixels pretty much in the middle of the screen. Now I don't know what to do :-(

 

[Buck Armstrong]

What was wrong with your original again? I'd love to have a 20WMGX2-BK, but I just can't bring myself to spend that kind of money on a refurb.

20" would be too small for me anyway after using a 21", 24", and now a 26". I wish the Planar had a glossy screen, but other than that, a bigger IPS is a better IPS.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: xtknight
The purple tint at wide angles on the 20WMGX2 is much worse (although easily bearable on anything but black nonetheless). The TW (true wide) polarizer helps this a lot.

The glossy panel on the 20WMGX2 causes reflections in dark images and it crushes dark detail. The LCD26 is better here (maybe because of adjustable DAC or coating).

I don't really know what you mean by white glow. The S-IPS panels do have a higher black level. The 20WMGX2's black doesn't seem to be as 'bright' as the LCD26 (meaning the 20WMGX2 appears darker to me). That's mostly because of the coating.

Sorry, I'm sure "white glow" is not the technical term for it. Here's what I'm talking about: http://www.hardforum.com/showt...d.php?t=1180069&page=6. Look at Toasty's photo about halfway down (2690 sitting next to Planar 2611). The Planar's black background has this white glow behind it at extreme angles, while the 2690's blacks are still black. I think Toasty said its the polarizer that fixes it.

I don't see any purple on the Planar, even at extreme angles; but I do see that white glow at extreme angles, although only on large black areas as in the photo. All other colors hold up perfectly, with no shift, glow or other issues.

Its a very minor nitpick compared to the shifting and black crush on the NEC...

 

[notnyt]

the planar is h-ips, characterized by a white glow at off-axis horizontal viewing. The s-ips black becomes purple at angles

 

[KenSings]

Originally posted by: KenSings

Again, many thanks for this forum and the recommendations.

Got my ViewSonic VX2435WM - looks great. Love it. No noticable problems, except it's so stinkin' bright that if I use it at night, it burns my "visual purple" so much that I can't find my way upstairs in the dark afterwards.

2)
Second question, perhaps a little off topic for this forum, but still - I'm hoping one of you can help me with this mystery. When I use this monitor via HMDI directly from my video card, there is about a 1 inch perimeter around the screen that is missing. That is, the "start menu" and windows taskbar and such aren't even visible! The corners are missing - They're off the screen. This happens regardless of any monitor settings (scaling, etc), and regardless of what resolution I use. Examples: If I set scaling to 1:1, (and computer to the monitor's native 1920x1200) I see black border all the way around the screen including where the task bar should be (not just top and bottom!). If I use the monitor's full screen scaling (not 1:1), it now fills the monitor, but the windows taskbar is off the screen too - in other words, the same thing, just larger. Now, if I use the DVI-I out, with a DVI->HMDI adapter, everything works fine at all resolutions. So I belive the problem is in the computer /graphics / Windoze Vista, not in the monitor. I'd really appreciate help, because I intend to use a second montior (CRT) hooked up to teh DVI-I port, meaning I have to get this ViewSonic working with the HDMI port. I've tried web searches, but haven't found any mention of similar issues.

Here's the setup details:

HP computer, Windoze Vista, NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS,
HDMI out -> ViewSonic HDMI in
can't see the edges of screen area on all four sides of screen, can't even see taskbar

HP computer, Windoze Vista, NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS,
DVI-I out -> DVI to HDMI adapter -> ViewSonic HDMI in
everything is fine.

Here's an update - thanks for your replies and thoughts xlknight, Trean, DoctorM, and cboath.

It's definitely an NVidia driver thing - HP sent me a default driver, and while this makes the moniotr/video card work fine together via HDMI, it doesn't use any advanced video capabilites, so even simple animated Yahoo ads have flickering, etc. Not a good solution. Upon reinstalling the NVidia driver, the problem returns (as always, a problem is hwen using HDMI port; the DVI-I to HDMI to monitor is fine). So I've reported the problem on the NVidia feedback site, and I suspect I'm pretty much screwed - I don't expect NVidia to publish a fixed driver on my behalf. I don't understand why they haven't had a ton of complaints from other Vista users, however - perhaps very few are going HDMI to HDMI. If I really want to use two monitors (the VX2435WM plus a CRT), I suppose I'll have to just buy a different video card that has dual DVI-I outputs or a DVI-I and a VGA. Any recommendations? I don't need super-fast performance, just using photo editing. Looks like the NVidia 8600 has two DVI-I outs, but at this point I'm disinclined to go with NVidia!

Anyway, thanks for the help - I'll post again if either HP or NVidia comes up with a solution, although I'm not optimistic.

Cheers.