[Retired] The LCD Thread

[j0j081]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
there wasnt a panel info line :-\

what exactly did it say then? It should be something like what can be seen here on the 2232BW.

http://www.behardware.com/arti...tors-the-3rd-wave.html

 

[j0j081]

Originally posted by: desertjedi
For those of you considering the Samsung 2232BW, the supposed Samsung flagship successor (in that price range) to the 226BW.

I just picked up one at Best Buy a few days ago. Here's what I found...

Samsung is once again playing the panel lottery with this LCD. There are four panels that can be found in this LCD. I ended up with the 'CMO' version of the panel from Best Buy.

The LCD had a horrible blue dominance that could not be corrected with either a 'color reset' or by using their MagicColor(MagicTune?) functionality.

Really bad backlight leakage problem along the bottom. We're talking about 1-1.25 inches here.

LCD was so bright that I could not find an acceptable brightness/contrast level no matter how much I turned them down. It was either "burn your retinas" bright or dingy gray. This probably has nothing to do with this LCD having a "CMO" panel. The LCD was set to the lowest of the 3 gamma settings. The other two were insanely bright.

The blue (or red) dominance and the backlight leakage are known problems with this LCD's 'CMO' panel.

Needless to say, I returned the 2232BW to BB for a full refund. I've actually ordered a colorimeter because I do a ton of photo editing for my online store but I have no idea if I could have corrected the color problem with this LCD...and honestly, why should I have to?

I am not purposely going to these places to buy and return, but every damn monitor has a defect, or some kind of problem.......

In the $280-330 price range, we are getting 'consumer-level' (not professional-level) items that are all, in some way, a compromise. Maybe things get better when you drop a lot more coin but I'm not sure. It seems that not only does every LCD model have its flaws but individual units within those model lines can vary as well. There is no 'perfect' choice of an LCD nor is there any manufacturer for which you can be assured of getting a great LCD.

I've subsequently ordered a Viewsonic VX2240w. From all that I've read on it, I hope to be "satisfied" with it. I will be doing a color calibration on it but hopefully I'm starting with a decent "set of colors".

did you read this?

http://www.behardware.com/arti...tors-the-3rd-wave.html

the non S panel 2232BW has been professionally reviewed to be as good as the S panel once you install the color profile they have on their site.

 

[redlinez33]

M-AQ22W0CDA-1001

 

[Tasiin]

Originally posted by: Retriever II
Haven't noticed any flicker so far. Really, this would be a stellar display if it wern't for the coating. I made a point to examine 4-5 different matte LCDs at work today, and none of them had a matte coating as intrusive at this one (they of course had their own problems like bad backlight bleed, or flickering 6-bit color, or terrible viewing angles).

Unfortuneately I made a silly mistake and bought mine on Newegg, or I'd probably send it back. But then again, I've started to read up a little bit on this bad sparkle treatment, and it's more widespread now?

If it's anything like the Dell's coating, it is indeed terrible. I don't think there are any 20" IPS displays available that don't have it other than the 20WMGX2, which goes to the opposite end of the spectrum and has a ridiculously reflective glossy coating. Given the choice between the two I'd take the anti-glare, but it doesn't need to look as bad as it does.

Maybe some of the older panels like the 2070NX aren't quite so bad, but the panel in that is one generation older than the LP2065's.

 

[redlinez33]

The two 2253BW I have had have horrible backlight bleeding....... ugh,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[zod96]

Is the gateway FPD1976W 6 bit or 8 bit panel, anyone know?

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: RobberBaron
~Review frustrated~!

Trying to boil down all my options is killing me. Way too much info!

Ok so I am looking at 24 and above. Main application is gaming. MMO's and FPS. With the occasional web browsing. I have a decent video card 8800 GTS 512, so running a dual link 30 is an option.

My concerns: lag, correct color, easy of use and sharp text. In that order.

If any of you have a top three recommendation, please let me know.

If you want 24" or larger with little to no lag, the Planar PX2611W is just about your only choice.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
M-AQ22W0CDA-1001

I thought CDA were CMO panels.

Which, if you're happy with the 2253BW, is good news because the CMO has very little input lag. And we know the 245BW has one frame or less, so if the 2253BW is even less that's near zero.

 

[j0j081]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: redlinez33
M-AQ22W0CDA-1001

I thought CDA were CMO panels.

Which, if you're happy with the 2253BW, is good news because the CMO has very little input lag. And we know the 245BW has one frame or less, so if the 2253BW is even less that's near zero.

yeah I think that is true so it might not be a bad panel BUT I thought at least the initial shipments of the 2253BW would be S panels so this is a little frustrating to me now as well who has been waiting to find the perfect gaming screen for some time. The CMO panels are meant to be good though according to that review on behardware of the 2232BW CDA version. I am wondering if it's better to buy from someplace other than Best Buy then. It honestly seems like BB gets nothing but C panels whereas other people claim to get S panel 226BWs from other places like Circuit City.

 

[j0j081]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
The two 2253BW I have had have horrible backlight bleeding....... ugh,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

You should keep it a few days and check again. On the 2232BW I was testing for whatever reason the backlight bleeding lessened with time. I have no idea why but I've seen the same thing with a few lcds I've tested over the past couple years. You say it's really fast for gaming so that is good. How are the colors so far?

 

[j0j081]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
M-AQ22W0CDA-1001

where does it say yours was made on the back to if I may ask? S panels apparently come from a plant in Tian, China most of the time.

 

[redlinez33]

colors are better than 245BW.... Dont have anything else to compare it to, but so far I like it. The backlight bleeding might be a deal breaker for me and $330 is pricey for a monitor that isnt height adjustable (im starting to think i should of kept my w2207, great monitor but I had few dead pixels and I couldnt find another samsung panel at the time)...


Made in Dongguan China


I am going to a local staples that still stocks the w2207 (most carry the w2207h) tomorrow and see if they have any S panels instock........ *PRAYS*

Btw, I stick by what I Said about the 245BW. Was the best 24" TN tested, but it still left something to be desired. Personally I think at the current state, 24" is to big for TN panels......

 

[j0j081]

oh okay. I'm sure I'll still be getting one when they have them here then. I was just really hoping to get an S panel this time around. At least you can change the stand on this one unlike the 2232bw.

 

[Gordon Airporte]

Originally posted by: Tasiin
Have you noticed any flickering on gray colors?

I'm sorry to hear that the coating isn't very good. I've been considering returning my 2007WFP for an LP2065, and I was really hoping that the coating wouldn't look quite as sparkly or "dusty" as the Dell's -- it's really quite annoying on lighter colors, particularly white.

I don't notice the coating on my LP2065 unless I look for it. You have to focus on a plane slightly in front to the actual screen image, maybe bob your head around a little, and there's a very slight holographic effect. The screen image itself is plenty sharp and there's nothing I can do with my eyes to get the holographic dust to interfere with it.
It is most noticeable in mid grays but I'm certainly not seeing anything like the flickering of a 60Hz CRT.
I'm afraid I've never looked at a Dell monitor critically so I can't compare.

 

[topher219]

First time poster but have been reading this thread for awhile, have learned an amazing amount of info on LCD's. I originally didnt know a thing about them.

Great Job xtknight!!!!!!!!

I bought the Planar PX-2611W 2 days ago from CDW. I found out today that they are on back order and they are expecting some new ones in on March 3-5. Hopefully they get a good batch in and I have no problems with mine when I get it. I have to rely on my Father to test it out for me, Im currently in Iraq and have to ship things to him. Will post and keep you updated if I find out any bad/good news about them.

 

[xtknight]

I was thinking of destroying categories and simply making a list of LCDs. Each entry to the list would include ratings for the LCD as it performs in gaming, movies, print matching, photo editing, and others (probably a 10-denominator rating system). Would this make it easier for you guys to choose what is right for you? I do have a lot of redundancy on the recommendations list as is.

This may also allow me to add other LCDs more liberally even if they just have low ratings. That will help people see how the lower end LCDs stack up.

Which way would you rather have it?

 

[noxis]

Originally posted by: xtknight
The LP2465 would match or exceed the LCD2470WNX if it had an input lag of 2 frames although I have no idea what input lag it actually has. Same panel, though, as far as I can tell. Where did you find that the LP2465 had 3 frames of lag? I didn't see it in the PRAD review or either other link but maybe I missed it.

I have LP2465 since yesterday. It has 32-48 ms of input lag. I can check other things if you want

But I also have a question.

How to check if this monitor still has a S-PVA (LTM240M2) panel? It was manufactured in Czech Republic (January 2008). Maybe they are using different panels?

What kind of tests should I try? I can make some photos using my camera. Can you give me some help?

 

[Deinonych]

Originally posted by: xtknight
I was thinking of destroying categories and simply making a list of LCDs. Each entry to the list would include ratings for the LCD as it performs in gaming, movies, print matching, photo editing, and others (probably a 10-denominator rating system). Would this make it easier for you guys to choose what is right for you? I do have a lot of redundancy on the recommendations list as is.

This may also allow me to add other LCDs more liberally even if they just have low ratings. That will help people see how the lower end LCDs stack up.

Which way would you rather have it?

I like that idea. Keep them categorized by size, though.

 

[humanure]

Originally posted by: xtknight
I was thinking of destroying categories and simply making a list of LCDs. Each entry to the list would include ratings for the LCD as it performs in gaming, movies, print matching, photo editing, and others (probably a 10-denominator rating system). Would this make it easier for you guys to choose what is right for you? I do have a lot of redundancy on the recommendations list as is.

This may also allow me to add other LCDs more liberally even if they just have low ratings. That will help people see how the lower end LCDs stack up.

Which way would you rather have it?

I think this would help, keep them organized by screen size and add the comments.

 

[redlinez33]

lol bought the westinghouse at bestbuy (the 24" nonTN one) and it looked good (for the price) until I played a game and noticed it cannot display grays. It has like one shade of gray it can do, looks horrible. Worse thing I have ever seen in my life.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: notnyt

Originally posted by: Deinonych

Originally posted by: notnyt
I had a 2470wnx, the lag was unbearable for me. Between the lag and the ghosting/flickering, I sold it and got the planar px2611w which I'm loving.

Hmm...haven't noticed any flickering whatsoever. I noticed that putting it in sRGB mode made the ghosting pretty bad, so I keep in Native mode with the contrast down around 35%. Perhaps sRGB mode caused flickering too.

The Planar sounds like a nice display, from what I've read about it.

I only saw it in games like everquest or warcraft. The landscame scenery would flicker when you moved around due to the response time. what would happen is the whole landscape would briefly lighten before the pixels completely faded, then it would return to normal. as the frame rate dropped further below 60 (still images on the screen longer) the flickering got worse... it was like looking at a crt set to 60hz but waaaaay worse

This is just ghosting that appears like flickering to your eyes, but it's not due to low frequency PWM (pulse-width modulation), dithering, or any other 'fault'.

I believe they were talking about dithering on the 20" IPS panels, and flicker on static images.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Grinja
-SAMSUNG 245T-
Hi has anyone tried this monitor yet?
I'm looking for a good multi-purpose monitor but mostly gaming and movies?

Anyone's thoughts are welcome.

It's good but the input lag is so ridiculous it's not real suitable for gaming and might even become annoying for general use.

http://www.digitalversus.com/d...1&mo2=321&p2=3054&ph=1

Look in the Multimedia section otherwise for a 24".

Originally posted by: RobberBaron
~Review frustrated~!

Trying to boil down all my options is killing me. Way too much info!

Ok so I am looking at 24 and above. Main application is gaming. MMO's and FPS. With the occasional web browsing. I have a decent video card 8800 GTS 512, so running a dual link 30 is an option.

My concerns: lag, correct color, easy of use and sharp text. In that order.

If any of you have a top three recommendation, please let me know.

1. Planar PX2611W (low input lag, everything else you want. easy #1)
2. ViewSonic VX2435wm (ok lag, more ghosting, fairly accurate color)
3. HP LP2465 (ok lag, less ghosting, less accurate color)

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: swankFoto
Newbie poster but longtime troller....

What is the best monitor for photo editing between the:
Planar PL2010M and Samsung 215tw

Which would be best overall?
I can get either one for about the same price.

thanks

The 215TW is well-renowned whereas I have no idea what panel the PL2010M uses and have never seen a review of it. So I'd go with the 215TW.

Originally posted by: bouchacha
I got a 226BW a few days ago and through the service menu found out it's a CMO model, not an S. The picture is amazing! Everything is bright, clear and crisp and I haven't noticed any ghosting (at least compared to my 19" crt).

However, one thing is REALLY annoying me. There is significant backlight bleeding at the very top of the screen that is very noticeable. The image doesn't even have to be dark for me to notice it and it extends up to 1cm. There's some backlight bleeding on the left and right but nothing that I can't ignore. The top, however, is annoying me.

Did I just get a defective model or is this common with the CMO panel?

I'm not sure this is common on the CMO panel but people do say the CMO has a blue tint and ghosting. Anyway, you might try exchanging it for excessive backlight bleed (maybe this constitutes 'defective').

Originally posted by: desertjedi
For those of you considering the Samsung 2232BW, the supposed Samsung flagship successor (in that price range) to the 226BW.

I just picked up one at Best Buy a few days ago. Here's what I found...

Samsung is once again playing the panel lottery with this LCD. There are four panels that can be found in this LCD. I ended up with the 'CMO' version of the panel from Best Buy.

The LCD had a horrible blue dominance that could not be corrected with either a 'color reset' or by using their MagicColor(MagicTune?) functionality.

Really bad backlight leakage problem along the bottom. We're talking about 1-1.25 inches here.

LCD was so bright that I could not find an acceptable brightness/contrast level no matter how much I turned them down. It was either "burn your retinas" bright or dingy gray. This probably has nothing to do with this LCD having a "CMO" panel. The LCD was set to the lowest of the 3 gamma settings. The other two were insanely bright.

The blue (or red) dominance and the backlight leakage are known problems with this LCD's 'CMO' panel.

Needless to say, I returned the 2232BW to BB for a full refund. I've actually ordered a colorimeter because I do a ton of photo editing for my online store but I have no idea if I could have corrected the color problem with this LCD...and honestly, why should I have to?

I am not purposely going to these places to buy and return, but every damn monitor has a defect, or some kind of problem.......

In the $280-330 price range, we are getting 'consumer-level' (not professional-level) items that are all, in some way, a compromise. Maybe things get better when you drop a lot more coin but I'm not sure. It seems that not only does every LCD model have its flaws but individual units within those model lines can vary as well. There is no 'perfect' choice of an LCD nor is there any manufacturer for which you can be assured of getting a great LCD.

I've subsequently ordered a Viewsonic VX2240w. From all that I've read on it, I hope to be "satisfied" with it. I will be doing a color calibration on it but hopefully I'm starting with a decent "set of colors".

I was about to recommend the 2232BW but I'm glad I never did.

But hmm more backlight bleeding...

And nope, more expensive LCDs still have problems, especially input lag or connections/scaling problems.

I don't really like to tell you this now but the VX2255wmb may have been a better choice. At least from what I've heard and seen on the reviews.

Since you have a colorimeter you don't have much to worry about though. And perhaps you picked the VX2240w because of its lower price.

Originally posted by: TempletonPeck

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: TempletonPeck
Any thoughts on the Dell SP2008WFP or BenQ G2000W?

Any information or opinions would be helpful.

I avoid Dell E and SP series (simply low quality line) and I'd be much more inclined to try the BenQ G2000W since the BenQ G2400W was getting good user reviews/previews.

I'm hesitant on the BenQ G200W because it quite a bit cheaper. I think around $199, while the Dell is a full $100 more.

I'm afraid then I can't give you a conclusive answer on your question. I'd be trying the BenQ personally, I think there's a very good chance it's better.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
The two 2253BW I have had have horrible backlight bleeding....... ugh,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Weird, maybe a recent CMO problem has cropped up.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: zod96
Is the gateway FPD1976W 6 bit or 8 bit panel, anyone know?

TN, it's a 6-bit.

Originally posted by: j0j081

Originally posted by: redlinez33
The two 2253BW I have had have horrible backlight bleeding....... ugh,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

You should keep it a few days and check again. On the 2232BW I was testing for whatever reason the backlight bleeding lessened with time. I have no idea why but I've seen the same thing with a few lcds I've tested over the past couple years. You say it's really fast for gaming so that is good. How are the colors so far?

Backlight bleeding can be alleviated by lowering brightness or by lowered pressure in the panel/bezel over time, I believe.