[Retired] The LCD Thread

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j0j081

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Aug 26, 2007
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xtknight as far as recommending lcds like the 2232bw you shouldn't always go by what one person says on here. the professional reviews seem to like it a lot. the only reason I wouldn't recommend it yet is because the 2253bw might turn out to be the better buy in the long run but there isn't any feedback on it yet. LCDs imo seem to be very tricky to buy. So many have something wrong right out of the box it's very annoying. I think this goes with all brands, panel types, etc.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: j0j081
xtknight as far as recommending lcds like the 2232bw you shouldn't always go by what one person says on here. the professional reviews seem to like it a lot. the only reason I wouldn't recommend it yet is because the 2253bw might turn out to be the better buy in the long run but there isn't any feedback on it yet. LCDs imo seem to be very tricky to buy. So many have something wrong right out of the box it's very annoying. I think this goes with all brands, panel types, etc.

OK yeah I know I'll be the first to admit I can be easily swayed by one post or another. I did say I would be recommending it but I didn't recommend the 2232 since the 2253 is on the horizon and initial results look good.

But nor do I think my job is easy here. So I have just been sticking with the 22"s in my OP for now. That's partly because I am too quick to add things sometimes. I'm still indifferent about the 2232 right now but I really don't like the lottery situation or backlight issues I've heard about, or the input lag. Whether the other ones have these issues I really don't know. It is difficult to keep track of all the models. But I sure never hear too many problems from those depts. It's always people with the Samsungs/lotteries complaining about various issues and each time I hear that I feel less like recommending them. It is just nature, I guess. Speaking of which, I still don't see any more convincing pro reviews of the 2232BW (not even the S panel). I wish X-Bit would take a look at it, or THG would take a look at the C panel because this monitor in particular is a problem case.

I do realize DigitalVersus/LesNum has said they were the same after the profiles but without data I'm not really convinced of that. And I sure do here a lot of complaints about the C panel still.

Ideally I'd have the funds to pick one up locally and try it and solve the mystery for good, although anyone knowledgeable is free to evaluate the 2232BW the same way. Even if I don't feel like it deserves to be on the list, I am not preventing people from trying it. I think other LCDs are about as good (for MOST people) and much less troublesome. Most people don't want to bother with color profiles or probably have no idea what they are. I won't even mention the fact you can't use profiles on games in 99% of cases, nor movies at least half the time. Forget hooking up external devices. Removing the blue tint has been said by many to be very tough and impossible thru the OSD. That means the profile probably clips a significant amount of bit depth to accomplish such a task, limiting the amount of detail possible. Anyway the 2232BW's input lag seems very high compared to the 226BW, so I don't really see anything about the 2232BW that actually stands out. Even ergonomics are reduced. The response time is actually very good (albeit slower than 226BW by a tad), but better than the other 22"s? Hardly...

When it comes to panel homogeneity/uniformity I'd highly doubt 2232BW CMO panels differ from what ViewSonic gets for the VX2255. The VX2255 has at least "good" uniformity: http://prad.de/en/monitore/rev...c-vx2255wmb-part8.html

Any more uniform (if such is the case with the 2232BW), frankly I don't think most people would be able to tell the difference. My LCD26 performs very similarly if not worse and that's the way I use it most of the time (I could enable ColorComp but it reduces contrast). If CMO has had a couple bad apples lately, that means poor results for most 2232BW owners in the US, and VX2255 owners, so mostly equal ground.

The VX2255 seems to equal the 2232BW in every way except maybe for design. The response time difference is quite minimal as far as I can tell. Maybe 5 ms or so, and the VX has less input lag overall, almost surely superior for gaming. No overdrive, so guaranteed no inverse ghosting/burning/etc on the VX. And I'm comparing this to 2232BW (S) panel.

The VX2255's color accuracy is equal to if not better than a 2232BW(S) [check grayscale compare on DigitalVersus]. And you can actually get this kind of accuracy all the time.

The response, true, is a little faster on the 2232BW panels but the difference is probably quite minimal in real use.

This is all moot though since the 2232BW is out of stock everywhere I see on Froogle. If people had access to one I'd probably be recommending the VX2255wmb anyways just because I'm more confident doing so.

I hope this answers your question. Sorry if it got a little lengthy. Other alternatives to the 2232BW include the very-soon upcoming L227WT and 2253BW. Nothing wrong with a L226WTQ/L226WTY either.

Since it comes up a lot I hope this post serves as my official, in-depth stance on the 2232BW. It's probably not a bad choice but as long the VX2255 is knowingly as good/better at about same $, I'm not compelled to recommend it.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: topher219
First time poster but have been reading this thread for awhile, have learned an amazing amount of info on LCD's. I originally didnt know a thing about them.

Great Job xtknight!!!!!!!!

I bought the Planar PX-2611W 2 days ago from CDW. I found out today that they are on back order and they are expecting some new ones in on March 3-5. Hopefully they get a good batch in and I have no problems with mine when I get it. I have to rely on my Father to test it out for me, Im currently in Iraq and have to ship things to him. Will post and keep you updated if I find out any bad/good news about them.

Good luck. And I owe you the same/more gratitude as you have given me.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: noxis
Originally posted by: xtknight
The LP2465 would match or exceed the LCD2470WNX if it had an input lag of 2 frames although I have no idea what input lag it actually has. Same panel, though, as far as I can tell. Where did you find that the LP2465 had 3 frames of lag? I didn't see it in the PRAD review or either other link but maybe I missed it.

I have LP2465 since yesterday. It has 32-48 ms of input lag. I can check other things if you want

But I also have a question.

How to check if this monitor still has a S-PVA (LTM240M2) panel? It was manufactured in Czech Republic (January 2008). Maybe they are using different panels?

What kind of tests should I try? I can make some photos using my camera. Can you give me some help?

I don't know if the LP2465 has a service menu (maybe same code as LP2065)?

Opening it up is always a possibility although this might void your warranty and I don't really see a point in it.

I am reasonably sure they are using VA panels.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

You can look at these tests (particularly grayscales) although I'm not sure how well they'd turn up in photos.
 

redlinez33

Senior member
Nov 11, 2007
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Now about an expensive monitor. The DELL 2707, every review I read says its a very good monitor, just expensive. Most of the time when they said that it was when it cost $1300~, now I can get it for $975~ shipped.... Worth it now? High quality?

Or still over priced?????


Was possibly considering PX2611W but I have heard a few bad things, so not to sure about it.......
 

j0j081

Banned
Aug 26, 2007
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yeah I am pretty much hoping the 2253BW is equal or better than the 2232BW picture quality wise and has the low input lag of the 226BW.

maybe the 2232BW is being discontinued anyway. it's been on sale for a few weeks in a row at Best Buy. 226BW is finally being discontinued as well from what I can tell.
 

Tasiin

Member
Oct 11, 2005
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Originally posted by: Gordon Airporte
I don't notice the coating on my LP2065 unless I look for it. You have to focus on a plane slightly in front to the actual screen image, maybe bob your head around a little, and there's a very slight holographic effect. The screen image itself is plenty sharp and there's nothing I can do with my eyes to get the holographic dust to interfere with it.
It is most noticeable in mid grays but I'm certainly not seeing anything like the flickering of a 60Hz CRT.
I'm afraid I've never looked at a Dell monitor critically so I can't compare.

Thanks for the information. That pretty much exactly describes what I see on my 2007WFP.

Also, I was wondering: what kind of affect would the tighter pixel pitch that the LP2065 has over the widescreen 20.1" panels have on the "screen door effect" that's supposed to be worse on IPS panels? I've seen a few people complaining about excessive SDE on it, but if it's roughly the same or better than the widescreen panels I don't think it'll bother me.

 

noxis

Junior Member
Mar 1, 2008
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Originally posted by: xtknight
I don't know if the LP2465 has a service menu (maybe same code as LP2065)?

Thanks! I have found service menu (menu + power on).
It has LTM240M2-L02 panel. Exacly the same as NEC 2470WNX.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: Tasiin
Originally posted by: Gordon Airporte
I don't notice the coating on my LP2065 unless I look for it. You have to focus on a plane slightly in front to the actual screen image, maybe bob your head around a little, and there's a very slight holographic effect. The screen image itself is plenty sharp and there's nothing I can do with my eyes to get the holographic dust to interfere with it.
It is most noticeable in mid grays but I'm certainly not seeing anything like the flickering of a 60Hz CRT.
I'm afraid I've never looked at a Dell monitor critically so I can't compare.

Thanks for the information. That pretty much exactly describes what I see on my 2007WFP.

Also, I was wondering: what kind of affect would the tighter pixel pitch that the LP2065 has over the widescreen 20.1" panels have on the "screen door effect" that's supposed to be worse on IPS panels? I've seen a few people complaining about excessive SDE on it, but if it's roughly the same or better than the widescreen panels I don't think it'll bother me.

I'm not exactly sure if SDE gets worse or better with smaller dot pitch. It may not be related at all as I've heard of SDE on the NEC 90GX2 (big dot pitch) and also other small pitch LCDs.
 

nisya

Junior Member
Mar 2, 2008
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Originally posted by: noxis
I have LP2465 since yesterday. It has 32-48 ms of input lag. I can check other things if you want
The input lag you checked is it 2 or 3 frames? Does the mouse cursor lag behind much?
How does the text scroll? Hoes it heat up much?Any coating?
Thanks.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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NEC LCD2690WUXi review is finally up: http://xtknight.axspace.com/lcd26/
Hope I covered everything although I doubt that. If anyone wants more info about the LCD26 please do let me know.

Hosted on another site because lcdresource.com is still down (unsure of the status of this).

Also dark/light grayscale tests on http://xtknight.axspace.com/

Don't know if I'll get around to doing the new size-based recommendations list, I'll probably end up doing it on one of the "extra" posts under the OP. Hopefully within the next couple weeks...
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: redlinez33
Now about an expensive monitor. The DELL 2707, every review I read says its a very good monitor, just expensive. Most of the time when they said that it was when it cost $1300~, now I can get it for $975~ shipped.... Worth it now? High quality?

Or still over priced?????


Was possibly considering PX2611W but I have heard a few bad things, so not to sure about it.......

Personally I think the PX2611W is better overall unless you need video inputs. It has better image quality, low lag, H-IPS panel although the 2707 may be a better overall product package.
 

redlinez33

Senior member
Nov 11, 2007
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Im just afraid of backlight bleeding issues, and wonder if CDW has as good of a return policy as dell....................

H-IPS panel does sound nice though.... Only flaw is worse black levels.


Extremetech seemed to like the DELL more, only exception was the price. They said if the price was $999 (current price) then he could EASILY recommend it.... Planar didnt have that luxury of a review. Think I will go for the dell this time
 

zod96

Platinum Member
May 28, 2007
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Dumb question here which lcd gives better colors and view angles, the samsung 932GW or the samsung 2232GW? I know one is a 19 inch and one is a 22 inch, but when I was looking at these two in the store I could swear the 19 inch looked better.
 

j0j081

Banned
Aug 26, 2007
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Originally posted by: zod96
Dumb question here which lcd gives better colors and view angles, the samsung 932GW or the samsung 2232GW? I know one is a 19 inch and one is a 22 inch, but when I was looking at these two in the store I could swear the 19 inch looked better.

I think the poor viewing angles of TNs don't look so bad the smaller the lcd so it's probably an illusion.
 

redlinez33

Senior member
Nov 11, 2007
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Looks like I will be ordering the Planar this week. My first IPS screen! I hope I like...

My question is, who has the best return policy. CDW, provantage or DELL? There all about the same price. ($914 from CDW, $907 dell and slightly under $900 from provantage)....

I have heard CDW has a no questions asked return policy, so that sounds good to me. DELL you speak to someone from india, but they usually are good about returns as well. Provantage I have no clue, i bought a CPU cooler or something from them once, but that was like $25
 

zod96

Platinum Member
May 28, 2007
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Is 1440x900 a good resolution or do most people give negative thoughts on it
 

Buck Armstrong

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
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Originally posted by: redlinez33
Im just afraid of backlight bleeding issues, and wonder if CDW has as good of a return policy as dell....................

H-IPS panel does sound nice though.... Only flaw is worse black levels.


Extremetech seemed to like the DELL more, only exception was the price. They said if the price was $999 (current price) then he could EASILY recommend it.... Planar didnt have that luxury of a review. Think I will go for the dell this time

I could take up alot of time and space explaining all the differences between the IPS and the PVA and relating my experiences with each over the past few months, but instead, let me just say that XTKnight is right: the Planar is simply a much better monitor, especially when you consider it costs the same or less. If you want more details, read my response to your post in the Dell vs. Planar thread on HardOCP.

In fact, unless you want, need, and can afford an NEC 2490 or 2690, the Planar's the best buy going right now, so just save yourself the time and trouble I went through.
 

redlinez33

Senior member
Nov 11, 2007
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Ya i have decided to go with the planar. Did you have any backlight bleeding with the planar? I can deal with lighter blacks, but for some reason backlight bleeding annoys the sh*t out of me... Rather have a dead pixel
 

Buck Armstrong

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
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Originally posted by: redlinez33
Ya i have decided to go with the planar. Did you have any backlight bleeding with the planar? I can deal with lighter blacks, but for some reason backlight bleeding annoys the sh*t out of me... Rather have a dead pixel

I had a very small amount of backlight bleeding the day I got it, but it disappeared after 24 hours of use. I also had 3 stuck pixels, for which I am awaiting my replacement from CDW.

But to set your mind at ease: I absolutely love the one I have, even with the 3 pixels, and after what I've been through with multiple monitors in the past few months, am very reluctant to exchange it unless the replacement is absolutely perfect. I'm surprised to hear myself say that, especially about a $1000 monitor, but its true.
 

Van G

Member
Apr 12, 2006
148
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I'm looking to buy in the next 90 days. My most taxing need is colour accuracy for amateur photo correction. I don't game and won't be watching TV on the monitor.

I already own the Spyder2 Pro calibrator and my current monitors are Lacie e19bIV.

I've looked at the Samsung 245T and Dell 2407WFP and would like to keep my cost to $500 per monitor and will purchase 2 (Mac and PC).

Any suggestions on alternative models and/or new models using the Samsung S-PVA panel?

Should I consider any 22" models?

Van G
 

redlinez33

Senior member
Nov 11, 2007
278
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Maybe lenovo l220x?

Its around $500, 1920x1200 resolution for a 22" (crazy), but its a SPVA panel, and from what I have read has good color accuracy.
 

Gordon Airporte

Junior Member
Feb 11, 2008
12
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Originally posted by: Tasiin
Thanks for the information. That pretty much exactly describes what I see on my 2007WFP.

Also, I was wondering: what kind of affect would the tighter pixel pitch that the LP2065 has over the widescreen 20.1" panels have on the "screen door effect" that's supposed to be worse on IPS panels? I've seen a few people complaining about excessive SDE on it, but if it's roughly the same or better than the widescreen panels I don't think it'll bother me.

Just by the numbers - 20w panels have 98.56 pixels per inch and 20" have 99.5ppi, so I considered them equivalent in that respect (for comparison, 19"s are 86.3 ppi.)
There is SDE if you get close to the monitor and look for it - like in gradients on icons, but with my vision, at a working distance it it's hardly slapping me in the face and making the monitor unusable.
I bought a LP1965 as a secondary monitor and it uses a P-MVA panel (I really didn't want a TN). Looking from one to the other, the SDE is a little more noticeable on the 19", so it seems that the panel technology is a wash and the pixel pitch contributes more to SDE. There might be smoother panels out there (or there might not), but S-IPS technology has so many other benefits. I wouldn't put the SDE thing too high on your priority list.
 
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