[Retired] The LCD Thread

[Tasiin]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
when displaying a black image, i can see the white glow when im sitting RIGHT in front of the monitor, I thought it was only suppose to be at angles? I also see banding in black detail, really bad banding..... Defective monitor?????

I've never seen any of the newer IPS panels such as the one in your Planar in person, but every older IPS display I've seen glows purple in the corners at least a little even if I'm sitting directly in front of and level with it while it's displaying black.

The newer panels are supposed to glow white instead of purple, but I'm not sure if the viewing angles have improved much. I'd imagine the Planar's size is working against you here, as well. It's just something you have to get used to, unless you want to put up with the shortcomings of TN/VA panels which are really much worse in my opinion.

 

[cmurph]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: cmurph
xtknight,

First let me say thank you for running this post its is truly amazing to read through this and the time you have invested/doing this is very much appreciated. I have spent the last 3 hours on here and plan to spend a bunch more time.

I do have a quick question I currently have a Dell 2000FP purchase over 4 years ago. This monitor cost me arm when I purchased it and has served me very well. It has been switched on for most of its life but is starting to blink out on me. It still runs fine but about every hour and sometimes less it blacks out on my (started last month). All lights indicate its still on and I can power it off and power it right back on and it comes back to life but its starting to get really annoying. I really can not complain this monitor has literarily been running for some 30, 000+ hours with out being turned off for more then a hour in any given month. - Sometimes spending the extra really can pay off.

It sounds like the backlight or inverter is going out, but good to hear it has served you well since.

On with the question - Its time to start thinking replacement I do a lot of photo editing and it will be the primary purpose here. I did some back ground on the monitor I have seems it is a
2000FP 20 S-IPS (true 8-bit) 1600×1200 DVI-D, HD15, S-Video, Composite 16 ms



Do you by chance know who made the panels for these as I believe I would like to stay with this manufacture - granted times change so I am not set in stone but would like to learn a bit more about what went into making this monitor I have as it has been really great.

LG Philips makes the S-IPS panel in the 2000FP. S-IPS panels are usually true 8-bit and they have very wide viewing angles due to their nature. They also suck a little more power than other types but not by enough to worry about it. These days, S-IPS panels are quite rare and are only in expensive monitors mostly.

Also any suitable replacements you could recommend would also be appreciated

Regards,
cmurph

This is tough without knowing your budget but I could suggest the Dell 2007WFP, which comes with an S-PVA or S-IPS panel. If you're looking to get the same monitor only a little better, the HP LP2065 is a great choice (also comes w/ either AMVA or S-IPS).

I don't know if you'd be disappointed with an S-PVA panel. Overall, I doubt you'd be disappointed but with the LP2065 you have a better chance of getting an S-IPS.

Other than that, if you were to upgrade to a bigger S-IPS panel you'd be spending $800+. Probably not what you had in mind?

Let me know what you think.

Thanks for the post xtknight -
LG Philips - hmmm would not have guessed that

Budget has been a tough one for me as well. I don't mind spending the money so much as getting good value for that money. When I purchase the monitor I have it was a huge leap but it has paid for itself. Can I repeat this again? Is there an advantage to buying something as you have provide with the hp and dell to get me by for a bit longer? I really do not have the knowledge to know what is around the corner or if there is new technology on the way? I kind of feel like I am in a pickle here as do like the suggests you have presented above although it would seem the HP is a bit of a hard find. I was able to track down some info please confirm if this is the case in your experience that "the HP has two versions of the LP2065 are Mfr# EF227A8 and EF227A4. Most dealers will show which part number they have. The S-IPS panel is the part number ending in "4" and runs about $150 more than the lesser." It would seem that with the rebate going on all one can find is the 8? I would love to upgrade to the larger panels but is it a good time to do this? Is there newer technology on the way better monitors being built. Its sort of a frustrating game for us photogs - almost seems we are being pushed into the larger displays like it or not just to get the S-IPS. Fortunately most of my stuff is web based with occasional prints (not sure if that changes your assessment or not but thought it may be important) I do consider color to be a primary concern (I have a 21 Nokia CRT) but not critical to the work I do (unless I'm selling the prints I shot). 800+ doesn't make me worried but 1500 may

Perhaps the apple cinema may need to be looked at? Does LG Philips make these?

 

[Tasiin]

Originally posted by: cmurph
I was able to track down some info please confirm if this is the case in your experience that "the HP has two versions of the LP2065 are Mfr# EF227A8 and EF227A4. Most dealers will show which part number they have. The S-IPS panel is the part number ending in "4" and runs about $150 more than the lesser."

No, that's not true. My A8 is an S-IPS, and it seems as if many people who have bought them recently have gotten S-IPS panels too. I've actually not even heard of a single A-MVA A8, but I'm sure that some do exist.

If you buy one, just check the box when you receive it to make sure it has a serial that starts with GSM (GSM002 is the latest). If it starts with AMM, it's an A-MVA and you should probably send it back without opening it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: muppet22

Originally posted by: muppet22
does anyone know where to get a vesa-compliant stand will allow the monitor to be lower to the desk?

also....
does the 245BW have a 1:1 mode or aspect ratio mode? i need something like this for playing non-wide games.
if not, what are some other 24" monitors that have this feature? i'm undecided on whether i want to go with TN or otherwise

and 22" LCDs too that have this feature?

Most 22" LCDs do not have 1:1 support, but many have aspect ratio and fill support.

I don't see that the 245BW has any options for scaling besides complete fill. At least, from what I can tell from the manual.

Originally posted by: Davez621
What's all this talk about 8-bit LCD panels? I have always known 16.7 million color as 24-bit color. At least in windows:

32-bit (true) = 4B
24-bit (true) = 16.7M
16-bit (high) = 65k

So where does all this 8-bit and 6-bit business come from?

"32-bit" does not yield 4 billion colors, because 32-bit is 24-bit with an 8-bit alpha channel for ease of programming. There are still 16.7M colors in that mode.

I think if you're confused you should read the OP, but 24-bit with 3 color channels is 8 bits per channel. 6 bits per channel equals 18-bit total.

In reality, there are only 8-bit (256) shades of gray (= r+g+b) in 32-bit mode.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: off1c3r

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: off1c3r
Haha, I'm gonna test it after I finish some work.. but now I see the 940BE on newegg. God, why so many 940s lol. The 940BE seems like samsungs current 940 lowend one. Great.. another 940 into the mix for me to deal with

No idea, about the 940BE actually.

Yeah I am not sure about the BE either. The 940BF seems .. well, its a ghost. The stores I thought had it online.. don't. You did say it was limited though =) .. SO i started to look elsewhere for a good gaming lcd 19" or so, to go along side my hp lp2465... I started to look at the viewsonics.. (i wasn't too interested in the LGs) .. the VX924 & VX1940w. I remember the VX924 being one of the best LCDs for its time, and the VX1940w has some good reviews out there.. but I don't see much info about input lag.. The VX1940W claims 2ms; the VX924 claims 3. I am sorry if I am not doing through searches though, but my logic was, if the 940BF is still on the list (despite its age) .. why didn't the VX924 make it unless it has some major faults?

Well the VX924 is older and had rather poor color reproduction as far as I remember, so it wasn't on the list.

I used to have the NEC 90GX2 on the list, but that's no longer available.

Why weren't you interested in the 2 ms LGs, though? Unfortunately they're the few models that I'm sure give good response results. But other TNs like the Samsung 940BX probably aren't too bad.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: elwood
I've finally built myself a new computer! I had settled on the 245BW and told myself i would pick it up at sams club for $399 ($435 w/tax) right after i built my new system. Now my new system is built and i really can't see myself spending $435 on a monitor (i know thats on the low price end considering LCD's but it's still a lot of money for me).

So it's either wait for a deal on the 245BW or look into getting a 22" widescreen. My budget is somewhere around $300-$350. I'll be doing moderate gaming plus all the other things an average person uses a computer for.

I've seen that 24" BenQ and FHD2400 xtknight mentioned a few pages back but it's fairly hard to find either of those monitors locally and only a handful of online sites carry them.

What should i do, settle for a decent 22", wait for a deal on one of the aforementioned 24" ones, or stop being a cheap ass and pay the $435 for the samsung locally and be done with it?

Thanks for any help guys!


P.S. I am currently running dual 19" KDS X-flat CRT's. One is horribly blurry and the other is bearable. I currently have the really blurry monitor off my desk till i have the time to take it apart, for a second time in the last year, and adjust the focus to bearable again.

Well the BenQ G2400W is only $390 before shipping, here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...16824014158&Tpk=g2400w

If you can stand not being able to refund/exchange for a few dead pixels, then you'll be fine ordering from Newegg. They're a great retailer.

Besides, returns/exchanges depend more on the manufacturer than the merchant. As for the policy on the G2400W, I have no idea.

Originally posted by: muppet22
oh wow that's huge..so no matter what video card i get i dont need to worry about stretched full-screen games??

That's assuming your video card supports the scaling options advertised in the driver. I've heard that they only work on some cards.

Originally posted by: off1c3r
I'm gonna test a Samsung 906BW (2ms gtg) and an LG L1933TR-SF (noted on the main page for its similarties to the 1960)...

I am a very sensitive person and picky with input lag. I came from using a CRT and being a pro player for CS 1.5 and up, CZ, and CS:S. (I was ex cal-i) so yeah I FEEL input lag from the style I play. I hope once I get them, i can set some minds at rest cause I still see a lot of questions floating around for those 2 monitors. Right now I use the HP lp2465 and I stopped playing FPS games. I turned up mouse acceleration to max and that helped a little bit with input lag to compenstate but its not enough. If I find these LCDs to be good solutions as a CRT replacement, I'll definantly post it. I should have them tomorrow.

That's good. I think both should provide a pleasing experience.

Originally posted by: infinitesymphony
xtknight, thanks for the response re: the Acer AL2216Wbd as best 20-22" monitor under $250. I'll probably go for it.

Just to add my own mini-review... I've been 100% satisfied with the now-discontinued NEC 90GX2 19" standard width monitor I bought for $215 on clearance at Newegg last year. It was my first LCD, and it's been great for gaming despite being a TN panel. It's a shame that NEC discontinued the GX series.

I agree it sucks they discontinued GX2. And the GX2 Pros aren't available in the US.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Tasiin
Well, my LP2065 just came in. It's a rev. 115 S-IPS (GSM002 code).

Still messing with it, but here are a few first impressions:

? It flickers significantly less than my 2007WFP. This actually came as quite a surprise. When looking at a fully gray background at the lagom.nl LCD test site, the difference is very clear. At 0 brightness, the Dell appears to have a massive rolling wave going through the background. The HP does flicker a little, but adjusting the brightness does little to affect it and it isn't even close to being as bad as the Dell. It could actually be used at 0 brightness comfortably, if necessary.

Well, my LCD26 has areas of red and green on that test image (purportedly due to the A-TW polarizer) which doesn't make much sense either. I wouldn't really worry about it; none of this manifests itself in real use unless you look at checkerboards.

If anyone else owns an A04 S-IPS 2007WFP, I'd be curious to know what the large gray background on this page looks like for you. I wonder if my 2007WFP is just unusually bad.

? Mouse movement feels odd on the HP. I'm not sure if the LP2065 just has more input lag or if it's due to the difference in resolution. Does anyone know what the best way would be to compare input lag between the two monitors?

? The anti-glare coating is annoying. Can't really say if it's better or worse than the Dell's at this point -- they're both pretty bad. The HP's seems a bit "busier" on the desktop, but it's less noticeable in a game than the Dell's.

? There seems to be some difference in sharpness between the two. The Dell looks a bit grainy compared to the HP, but the HP seems to have a soft, almost CRT-like blur to the image. The Dell looks sharper to me. Not sure if this is due to the higher resolution or not.

? The standard aspect ratio of the HP is much preferable to widescreen on the desktop. I'm actually finding myself missing widescreen a little in games that make use of it, though I'm glad to not have to deal with the various compatibility issues and stretched interface elements that most older games have with it.

? The Dell appears to have a large number of horizontal bands running through it when it's displaying black. I have no idea what this is or if it's normal or not, but the HP doesn't have it at all, which is nice.

Not totally sure which one I want to keep yet. They both seem to have their merits, so this won't be an easy decision.

I believe the horizontal bands on black are an S-IPS problem caused by the rubbing process during manufacturing but I don't know for sure. My LCD26 also has these, and my 20WMGX2. I believe they are not present on VA or TN panels.

Sorry to hear both anti-glare coatings..suck. But maybe you'll get used to these. There is always something to get used to with monitors under $800 or so. That's not to say cheaper monitors wouldn't have a better coating, nor that $800+ ones wouldn't have the busy coating.

Does the HP have sharpness options? Or maybe the Dell is just cranked up? You're using DVI w/ both and native res, right?

Originally posted by: j0j081
for those of you complaining about backlight bleed with various lcds do you ever wait a few days and see if it gets any better? With the lcds I've tested over the past couple years it usually does seem to over time. Same thing with the colors in the first few days. No idea why though.

Backlight bleeding may be relieved by pressure on the panel. Uniformity problems might be fixed with the liquid crystal solution settling after warming up, or something like that.

Originally posted by: colorblind
Just curious has anybody tried this monitor the new BenQ T241W? Also how does one find out what type of panel it uses.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824014169

Basically looking for a good 24" monitor. All suggestions welcomed, price really is not an issue, thanks.

It's a TN (viewing angle=160/160 deg). Take a look at the BenQ G2400W instead for a good 24" TN. Or, other 24" VA/IPS listed in the OP.

If price is not an issue I recommend the NEC LCD2490WUXi, best in class for 24" panels. If you wish to be more frugal or want more video inputs, the ViewSonic VX2435wm is a decent option. Don't expect image quality quite like the LCD2490WUXi though.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: zod96
Anyone know what 24 inch lcd has the glossy screen and is a true 8 bit panel?

iMac 24", but nothing else.

Originally posted by: Tasiin
I set up both displays in clone mode and I've been able to confirm what I felt: the LP2065 does indeed have more lag than the Dell.

Shot 1
Shot 2
Shot 3

The HP was the primary display, if it matters, and the Dell was set to 1280x1024 with the internal scaler disabled. The LP2065 was consistently behind in every picture I took, but the last two were the worst.

There also seems to be some issues with uniformity on my display -- there's a large patch near the bottom of the monitor that has a yellowish tint to it no matter what I do. Actually, the entire monitor either has a yellow or red tint that I've been unable to get rid of, despite my best efforts. I've managed to get most of the red dominance out with my current settings, but white still looks very yellowish in most areas.

I'm pretty disappointed with this, so far. I'm thinking of sending both of these back and either throwing in the towel until a better display technology is available or trying a Dell 2007FP. I have a friend that owns two recently purchased S-IPS 2007FPs and he says they have no issues with flickering, which was my biggest problem with the WFP. The FP's price just dropped significantly on Dell's site, which doesn't hurt either.

Buying a monitor has become an unbelievably frustrating experience in the last couple of years. I can't wait until there are better options than this.

Well, that's very surprising to me that the HP has 32 ms more lag. I wonder how much lag the Dell has vs. a CRT? Any way of testing this?

Primary display shouldn't have mattered.

Which LCD has the uniformity issues? Surprising as I hadn't heard of this problem either.

Maybe you should give some bigger VA panels a try? It would probably be more convenient if they were available locally though which I doubt (at least mostly only TNs show up locally, here).

Of course there's always the LCD24 and LCD26 from NEC. I don't usually worry about what's available in the future as I just want to make my self happy for now. If it takes a lot of money sometimes I end up going that route.

Originally posted by: RobberBaron
So I got my PX2611W yesterday. First I want to say, thanks to everyone, especially xtknight for all the detail and work maintaining this thread.

Quick review: PX2611W, its BIG. I came from a 22" CRT and its STILL a big LCD. No dead pixels or defects. Only change I made was drop the Brightness to 50. I dont have a color meter, so its hard to tell if any of the colors are off. IF they are, it isnt by much. I stretch the legs of my machine and ran several games, FPS and MMO, as well as 3Dmark. No negative comments on any of it. Everything is very vivid, sharp, and the detail is just something else. On that point, my CRT had a tendency to be dark. Having a few hours with it, I can say I did NOT see any ghosting, delay or what not. Only 'problem' I had was the FPS dropping during games, 1900x1200 is big, more related to hardware then the LCD. Games I used where Oblivion, HalfLife2, Team Fortress 2, Eve-online.

OSD controls are like any other monitor (crt or lcd) just something you have to get used to. Its on par, meaning I didnt hate it. Different settings for how your using it. Text, gaming, movies, etc.

Only disappointment (if you can call it that) is there is no software or monitor profiles to load. If anyone has any profiling for the PX2611W throw up the link. (probably look through the thread here for any links)

I did some movie tests, something to note I never watch movies on my machine, so the media player and or the dvd drive I had could be blame, I had some chop while playing movies, BUT the picture was what I would have expected.

I'll have some more time over the weekend to test it to the max, but honestly, running 3dmark was probably the best way to show it off.

I'm glad you took my (and others') wise advice to get the PX2611W over the competitors when many people pass up the benefits of a good S-IPS panel as extras not worth the money (and instead find out the hard way!)

Sorry, I don't know of profiles for the PX2611W. Your best bet would be to search on HardForum. I don't believe any have been posted here but there's a possibility I'm forgetting something.

I think there's one here: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1180069

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: cmurph

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: cmurph
xtknight,

First let me say thank you for running this post its is truly amazing to read through this and the time you have invested/doing this is very much appreciated. I have spent the last 3 hours on here and plan to spend a bunch more time.

I do have a quick question I currently have a Dell 2000FP purchase over 4 years ago. This monitor cost me arm when I purchased it and has served me very well. It has been switched on for most of its life but is starting to blink out on me. It still runs fine but about every hour and sometimes less it blacks out on my (started last month). All lights indicate its still on and I can power it off and power it right back on and it comes back to life but its starting to get really annoying. I really can not complain this monitor has literarily been running for some 30, 000+ hours with out being turned off for more then a hour in any given month. - Sometimes spending the extra really can pay off.

It sounds like the backlight or inverter is going out, but good to hear it has served you well since.

On with the question - Its time to start thinking replacement I do a lot of photo editing and it will be the primary purpose here. I did some back ground on the monitor I have seems it is a
2000FP 20 S-IPS (true 8-bit) 1600×1200 DVI-D, HD15, S-Video, Composite 16 ms



Do you by chance know who made the panels for these as I believe I would like to stay with this manufacture - granted times change so I am not set in stone but would like to learn a bit more about what went into making this monitor I have as it has been really great.

LG Philips makes the S-IPS panel in the 2000FP. S-IPS panels are usually true 8-bit and they have very wide viewing angles due to their nature. They also suck a little more power than other types but not by enough to worry about it. These days, S-IPS panels are quite rare and are only in expensive monitors mostly.

Also any suitable replacements you could recommend would also be appreciated

Regards,
cmurph

This is tough without knowing your budget but I could suggest the Dell 2007WFP, which comes with an S-PVA or S-IPS panel. If you're looking to get the same monitor only a little better, the HP LP2065 is a great choice (also comes w/ either AMVA or S-IPS).

I don't know if you'd be disappointed with an S-PVA panel. Overall, I doubt you'd be disappointed but with the LP2065 you have a better chance of getting an S-IPS.

Other than that, if you were to upgrade to a bigger S-IPS panel you'd be spending $800+. Probably not what you had in mind?

Let me know what you think.

Thanks for the post xtknight -
LG Philips - hmmm would not have guessed that

Budget has been a tough one for me as well. I don't mind spending the money so much as getting good value for that money. When I purchase the monitor I have it was a huge leap but it has paid for itself. Can I repeat this again? Is there an advantage to buying something as you have provide with the hp and dell to get me by for a bit longer? I really do not have the knowledge to know what is around the corner or if there is new technology on the way? I kind of feel like I am in a pickle here as do like the suggests you have presented above although it would seem the HP is a bit of a hard find. I was able to track down some info please confirm if this is the case in your experience that "the HP has two versions of the LP2065 are Mfr# EF227A8 and EF227A4. Most dealers will show which part number they have. The S-IPS panel is the part number ending in "4" and runs about $150 more than the lesser." It would seem that with the rebate going on all one can find is the 8?

Yes, this seems to be the case but I think people have gotten S-IPS with A8 as well. I would just pay more to be sure.

I would love to upgrade to the larger panels but is it a good time to do this? Is there newer technology on the way better monitors being built. Its sort of a frustrating game for us photogs - almost seems we are being pushed into the larger displays like it or not just to get the S-IPS. Fortunately most of my stuff is web based with occasional prints (not sure if that changes your assessment or not but thought it may be important) I do consider color to be a primary concern (I have a 21 Nokia CRT) but not critical to the work I do (unless I'm selling the prints I shot). 800+ doesn't make me worried but 1500 may

Perhaps the apple cinema may need to be looked at? Does LG Philips make these?

Yes, Apple Cinema LCDs contain LG Philips panels.

But, my best suggestion for you is the NEC LCD2490WUXi. That's really the best recommendation I have for you as long as you're will to pay that price. I can't see anything else on the market being a better value than the LCD2490WUXi right now for mostly-web photographers. The LCD24 is sRGB, as is most web work so that should be most suitable for you even though you do a few print jobs. I believe the 26" LCD2690WUXi's wide gamut backlight would only make things more difficult for you (in terms of color workflow).

As for stuff coming in the future, I don't really know either. But probably not a whole lot for LCDs. They are focusing more on OLED/SED/FED now, which from my best guess are still ages (3 yrs+) away from being used as desktop monitors and affordable.

Now is as good a time to purchase as ever.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: jawknee530
How do I tell what kind of panel my 2007 is? Would the Planar PX2611W be more likely to look like my ultrasharp 2007 than the vx2435wm?

You may be able to tell by looking at the service menu (instructions for opening this should be easily findable). If it's S-IPS, the PX2611W would look similar. If it's S-PVA, the VX2435wm would look similar. Although, S-IPS is preferable and if you're happy w/ an S-PVA, you'd very likely be more happy with an S-IPS.

Originally posted by: muppet22
this is something i posted on hardforum

i got a 275t+ a couple days ago. i didn't see an option for 1:1 but it does have 4:3 which is useful for games that dont support widescreen or that would otherwise stretch it (like warcraft 3). it puts black bars on the side.

it has no bleeding that i can see (and i really hate backlight bleeding). colors are great. 1 dead pixel. the black level is awesome.

so far i've come to realize that gaming on a 27" is too big for me. before this i used a 906bw

i haven't done any objective rt or lag tests..i dont have a crt here to test it against. if you guys have any other questions let me know

anyway so this monitor is too big..so i am going to return it. i'm sitting 3 feet away from the screen and it's tough to see everything playing full-screen games. also my line of vision is about level with just above the middle of the screen..so i have to look up to see the top 1/3 of it.

i'm thinking a 24" would small enough for me. does anyone know where to get vesa-compliant stand will allow the monitor to be lower to the desk?

I don't have any stand recommendations in particular, but many can be found at Newegg.

Originally posted by: MotionMan
I installed the new monitor and it looks great. I am going to have to change the way I handle windows now that I have all this real estate!

old monitor - long shot
new monitor - long shot
old monitor - short shot
new monitor - short shot

MotionMan

Neat. Looks like you have a lot more screen real estate now.

 

[off1c3r]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: off1c3r

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: off1c3r
Haha, I'm gonna test it after I finish some work.. but now I see the 940BE on newegg. God, why so many 940s lol. The 940BE seems like samsungs current 940 lowend one. Great.. another 940 into the mix for me to deal with

No idea, about the 940BE actually.

Yeah I am not sure about the BE either. The 940BF seems .. well, its a ghost. The stores I thought had it online.. don't. You did say it was limited though =) .. SO i started to look elsewhere for a good gaming lcd 19" or so, to go along side my hp lp2465... I started to look at the viewsonics.. (i wasn't too interested in the LGs) .. the VX924 & VX1940w. I remember the VX924 being one of the best LCDs for its time, and the VX1940w has some good reviews out there.. but I don't see much info about input lag.. The VX1940W claims 2ms; the VX924 claims 3. I am sorry if I am not doing through searches though, but my logic was, if the 940BF is still on the list (despite its age) .. why didn't the VX924 make it unless it has some major faults?

Well the VX924 is older and had rather poor color reproduction as far as I remember, so it wasn't on the list.

I used to have the NEC 90GX2 on the list, but that's no longer available.

Why weren't you interested in the 2 ms LGs, though? Unfortunately they're the few models that I'm sure give good response results. But other TNs like the Samsung 940BX probably aren't too bad.

I didn't do my comparisions yet too much but I am using the LG 1933TR and it definantly is way faster than my HPlp2465. Just theres some tearing .. maybe video drivers I don't know.. I am long overdue a format and fresh drivers too on this computer. I still have the 906BW to try.. but I am going to lean to the 19" non wide screen models. Right now the 1933TR is great... but the tearing is bothering me.. I'll see what I can do to fix it. Come to think about it, I hope I am using the right term. Whenever I turn in a game, I see lines horizonatally and the image shifting.. i wish i knew how to explain it. =/

 

[redlinez33]

Well i bought a LG W2452T 24" TN panel to check it out. It is a very nice looking TN panel. I also have my Planar 26" still sitting right next to it, so I decided to see how they compare. IMO no questions, the planar looks better. Is it worth $400 more is the question.... SO I decided to take some pictures for your viewing pleasure . Some of these pictures make the TN look worse than it really is, some reason TNs dont like to get there picture taken.... I also suck at taking pictures, so that could be the problem . Also all of these pictures are before my hours of calibration, all I did was turn down the brightness and turned down the blue level on the LG.



Picture1
Picture2
Picture3

Then I decided to take some input lag tests, thinking the LG would be faster.......

input lag
input lag 2


Proves me wrong, average I counted to be around 10ms higher than the PLANAR..

Decisions, decisions.


The LG is the first 24" TN panel I can look directly on and the top of the monitor isnt noticeable darker than the bottom.... Quiet amazing actually.....

 

[Tasiin]

Yeah, both the Dell and HP are on DVI. I can't adjust the sharpness on either unless they're in a non-native resolution, which they are not.

You do sort of get used to to the anti-glare. Now that I've been using these for a little under a month, it's definitely not bothering me as much as it did when I first got them. I just really wish they'd gone with something a little less intrusive.

I wonder why the HP doesn't have those horizontal bands, then. Regardless, it's not that big of a deal -- it was just pretty easy to spot on the Dell.

The HP is the one that's a bit more yellowish at the bottom. Actually, looking at it today it doesn't seem to be nearly as bad as it was two days ago. It was especially noticeable when displaying my bookmarks in Firefox, because the white background turned distinctly yellowish towards the bottom of the list.

I don't think any of the bigger VA panels or the NECs would really be a viable option for me. I've never used a VA, but from what I've heard of the "black crush" on them when you look at one straight on and the constant color shifting, I think they'd drive me nuts. Most of them have a great deal of input lag, as well. The 2490 has a fair amount of input lag itself, and the 2690 is just too big and the wide gamut would be problematic.

I'm really surprised about the input lag too. Most people with these monitors claim that neither of them have noticeable input lag, and while that seems to be true in the Dell's case, I felt that there was something wrong with the HP right off the bat. The mouse feels sort of "heavy", and there is now quite a bit of mouse lag when playing games with v-sync on (which adds a lot of lag by itself) compared to to the Dell or my CRT. I'm sure that the amount of input lag isn't as bad as some of the larger VA panels like the 2407WFP, but it was more than enough for me to notice unaided.

I could test both of them individually against my CRT later if you'd like. I may do that anyhow actually, so I can compare those results against any new LCD I might try later.

It's a shame the HP has so much lag. It's making me lean towards returning it, even though it seems to be a fine display otherwise. The minor yellow tint at the bottom isn't enough to bother me now, and the image quality is good, though all in all I do prefer the way the 2007WFP looks. If I return it the 2007FP is probably my last option, and I'll have to roll the dice on the panel lottery and Dell's quality control which is a bit lacking to say the least. The flickering on my 2007WFP was absolutely unacceptable and it came with two stuck pixels, whereas the HP has neither.

I know input lag is a bit poorly understood, but assuming I do try the 2007FP, resolution and size are usually not a factor, right? Would I be safe in assuming that it'd have nearly identical results to the WFP? Sorry for the rather long post, by the way.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Tasiin
Yeah, both the Dell and HP are on DVI. I can't adjust the sharpness on either unless they're in a non-native resolution, which they are not.

You do sort of get used to to the anti-glare. Now that I've been using these for a little under a month, it's definitely not bothering me as much as it did when I first got them. I just really wish they'd gone with something a little less intrusive.

I wonder why the HP doesn't have those horizontal bands, then. Regardless, it's not that big of a deal -- it was just pretty easy to spot on the Dell.

The HP is the one that's a bit more yellowish at the bottom. Actually, looking at it today it doesn't seem to be nearly as bad as it was two days ago. It was especially noticeable when displaying my bookmarks in Firefox, because the white background turned distinctly yellowish towards the bottom of the list.

I don't think any of the bigger VA panels or the NECs would really be a viable option for me. I've never used a VA, but from what I've heard of the "black crush" on them when you look at one straight on and the constant color shifting, I think they'd drive me nuts. Most of them have a great deal of input lag, as well. The 2490 has a fair amount of input lag itself, and the 2690 is just too big and the wide gamut would be problematic.

I'm really surprised about the input lag too. Most people with these monitors claim that neither of them have noticeable input lag, and while that seems to be true in the Dell's case, I felt that there was something wrong with the HP right off the bat. The mouse feels sort of "heavy", and there is now quite a bit of mouse lag when playing games with v-sync on (which adds a lot of lag by itself) compared to to the Dell or my CRT. I'm sure that the amount of input lag isn't as bad as some of the larger VA panels like the 2407WFP, but it was more than enough for me to notice unaided.

I could test both of them individually against my CRT later if you'd like. I may do that anyhow actually, so I can compare those results against any new LCD I might try later.

It's a shame the HP has so much lag. It's making me lean towards returning it, even though it seems to be a fine display otherwise. The minor yellow tint at the bottom isn't enough to bother me now, and the image quality is good, though all in all I do prefer the way the 2007WFP looks. If I return it the 2007FP is probably my last option, and I'll have to roll the dice on the panel lottery and Dell's quality control which is a bit lacking to say the least. The flickering on my 2007WFP was absolutely unacceptable and it came with two stuck pixels, whereas the HP has neither.

I know input lag is a bit poorly understood, but assuming I do try the 2007FP, resolution and size are usually not a factor, right? Would I be safe in assuming that it'd have nearly identical results to the WFP? Sorry for the rather long post, by the way.

Well you do seem to be changing your opinions about the certain issues you mention, so maybe you should just try to keep one for a longer period of time and see how you like it. At least before making final judgments like returning. We do all know that finding a perfect LCD is virtually impossible.

I noticed input lag on my LCD26 right off the bat as well, even in general use. But surprisingly enough I really can't see or feel it anymore in desktop use. Simply put, it's no longer an issue. Why or how I can just "get used to it" is beyond me as well, but it happens and I just accept it as such...

I have also gotten accustomed to the two dead pixels on this LCD. Actually those probably bother me more than the input lag, but not enough for me to return it. After using it for general use, I have concluded that I see them so rarely that it's not worth exchanging for something that could be worse.

The HP probably does have horizontal bands to some unknown extent, but maybe you got the luck of a draw on an S-IPS panel that contains unnoticeable ones.

Some "vs. CRT" input lag figures would be nice so then you could compare the actual input lag with other LCDs.

Where again did the flickering occur on the 2007WFP? On plain gray or on one of those test images? Honestly, I think those flicker/checkerboard tests are stupid. They don't really mean anything and I wouldn't go off of them to judge how the LCD performs in the majority of general use. They are misleading.

I think the 2007FP will perform more closely to the LP2065 in image quality since it uses the same panel. And maybe it will have less input lag. I know the 2007FP has the aggressive coating, so don't expect changes there. My mom has one at work (S-IPS LM201U05 I believe) and I used it a little. In general I liked it, although the video adapter they had only supported lower-than-native so it was hard to tell. Uncalibrated, dark details were shoddy (about the same as the LP2065, I'm guessing). I didn't have the chance to calibrate it.

The 2007FP is a lottery as well (Samsung PVA or LG Philips S-IPS). If you get a PVA it'll be interesting to see how you like that. Maybe you'll enjoy the higher contrast and near-certain guarantee of no bars on black. I actually think most VA panels reveal darker tones better uncalibrated, but that depends on where you're sitting. And sitting right in front will cause the LCD to hide details. Honestly maybe this won't be a big deal for you...who knows. But, I have come across someone who would rather use a 19" TN than a 24" VA or 20" IPS (all Dell LCDs) so anything's possible.

You're the first person I've heard talk about bars on black colors on IPS panels. I thought I was the only one who noticed that. But maybe that also means you're in the same boat as me and you notice everything. Well I notice it, but it doesn't drive me nuts. Maybe that's the difference between you and me, I don't know? Do you think you could get a photo of the black bars? It's possible you're talking about something much worse than I am.

 

[airjrdn]

I just brought home a Samsung 2232BW and unfortunately, games (UT3/Crysis) were still blurry. I returned it to BB (no restocking fee on monitors) and went to CC and picked up a 2253BW. Gaming/blurryness they seem the same to me.

I'm contemplating trying the 2232GW, but I'm sure it'll be blurry too.

I just wanted to give a heads up to any gamers looking to try these monitors, because CC does charge the 15% restocking fee on monitors. They consider going from the 2253BW to the 2232GW an upgrade (because it's more expensive) and will waive the fee, but if you wanted to go back to the 2253BW, you'd have to pay it on the more expensive monitor.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: airjrdn
I just brought home a Samsung 2232BW and unfortunately, games (UT3/Crysis) were still blurry. I returned it to BB (no restocking fee on monitors) and went to CC and picked up a 2253BW. Gaming/blurryness they seem the same to me.

I'm contemplating trying the 2232GW, but I'm sure it'll be blurry too.

I just wanted to give a heads up to any gamers looking to try these monitors, because CC does charge the 15% restocking fee on monitors. They consider going from the 2253BW to the 2232GW an upgrade (because it's more expensive) and will waive the fee, but if you wanted to go back to the 2253BW, you'd have to pay it on the more expensive monitor.

Blurry? I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by that. Blurry when still or blur increasing with motion? Did you not see this blurriness on another LCD?

 

[EEsRULE]

xtknight,

I've read your recommendations on the first page, and I've gone to the digitalversus.com page to compare monitors head to head. Also, I've gone to the buyer's guide on prad.de (they seem to like the HP w2408h). Your LCD thread is by far the most informative thing I've found in researching a 1920x1200 LCD monitor purchase.

That being said, I've been using a Samsung Syncmaster 213T for about 4 years now, and the input lag hasn't been noticeable to me (PVA panel). Digitalversus.com shows an input lag of at least 3 frames when compared to a CRT for the 214T (they don't have the 213T listed). Taking all this into consideration, how important should input lag be to me?

I do play FPS, RPG, and other games on my PC. As a hobby, I also use Photoshop to create graphics for web pages. Also, I'm writing my dissertation using MS Word, so text is also important. Basically, I need something that does everything well, and I don't want to pay over a grand for the NEC. It seems like the consensus is that most 24" monitors have some sort of problem or another (uniformity being a problem due to the increased width).

I noticed the BenQ G2400W fairs well against most other monitors on the tests run on digitalversus.com. Is there a particular reason I should stay away from this monitor? Money is somewhat of an object (under $900 would be nice).

Wouldn't anything above 24" for 19200x1200 be a negative considering the expense of pixel pitch (0.2865 mm for Planar PX2611W versus 0.27 mm for BenQ G2400W). I might get the Planar if the pixel pitch doesn't decrease the sharpness noticeably.

Sorry if this post is too long. Thanks.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: EEsRULE
xtknight,

I've read your recommendations on the first page, and I've gone to the digitalversus.com page to compare monitors head to head. Also, I've gone to the buyer's guide on prad.de (they seem to like the HP w2408h). Your LCD thread is by far the most informative thing I've found in researching a 1920x1200 LCD monitor purchase.

That being said, I've been using a Samsung Syncmaster 213T for about 4 years now, and the input lag hasn't been noticeable to me (PVA panel). Digitalversus.com shows an input lag of at least 3 frames when compared to a CRT for the 214T (they don't have the 213T listed). Taking all this into consideration, how important should input lag be to me?

I don't think the 213T features overdrive, so it probably doesn't have input lag. The 214T, on the other hand, does have overdrive. So that may not be a fair comparison.

As a general rule most people can't notice 2 frames or less. But 3 may be bothersome to some, particularly for gaming. I believe over 2 frames bothers me for gaming but not for general use. I haven't tried "getting used to it" for gaming, though, as I don't game on a daily basis anymore.

I do play FPS, RPG, and other games on my PC. As a hobby, I also use Photoshop to create graphics for web pages. Also, I'm writing my dissertation using MS Word, so text is also important. Basically, I need something that does everything well, and I don't want to pay over a grand for the NEC. It seems like the consensus is that most 24" monitors have some sort of problem or another (uniformity being a problem due to the increased width).

I noticed the BenQ G2400W fairs well against most other monitors on the tests run on digitalversus.com. Is there a particular reason I should stay away from this monitor? Money is somewhat of an object (under $900 would be nice).

Wouldn't anything above 24" for 19200x1200 be a negative considering the expense of pixel pitch (0.2865 mm for Planar PX2611W versus 0.27 mm for BenQ G2400W). I might get the Planar if the pixel pitch doesn't decrease the sharpness noticeably.

Sorry if this post is too long. Thanks.

The Planar is wide gamut which may not be good for your web work, as people with standard gamut monitors won't see colors as you would.

Moving up to a G2400W (24") though, you might be disappointed with the TN's viewing angles.

You might try the ViewSonic VX2435wm (P-MVA). Unfortunately, it has more input lag (3 frames or so). The G2400W has about 0 input lag.

The BenQ is about as good as it gets for a TN, all-around. So, maybe the viewing angles won't be bothersome. With the ViewSonic you may get deeper blacks and brighter lights (higher dynamic range/contrast).

I think for your purposes (a lot of gaming) you might like the BenQ G2400W better, actually. So give that a try unless you really think off-axis viewing angles are a problem. You may notice the viewing angle instability when sitting right in front of the display too, however, because 24" is big for a TN panel. Maybe this is simply something you'll get used to.

I'm perfectly happy w/ the pixel pitch of my 26". I doubt I'd notice or let alone want anything lower. I have a 20.1" next to me and personally I think the dot pitch of that is a little small. The big image of the 26" is so nice, anyhow.

P.S. maybe I'm underestimating how bad viewing angles would be on a 24" TN. See what you think (245BW). This guy has a pretty cool mini-review showing the effects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...dk61j8&feature=related

 

[xtknight]

Another 26" S-IPS. I actually laughed when the actual panel was shown in the specs. How ridiculous. AND LG Philips 8-bit is actually advertised. Maybe they are really catching on.

Not a bad deal at $700 also! Just haven't seen any reviews yet. Wide gamut, I believe. Unlisted on their site as of now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...=DoubleSight%2bDS-263N

User review here. http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1268063

Unfortunately the LG W2600HP (S-IPS in Germany) will probably end up TN in the US/Canada.

 

[j0j081]

Originally posted by: airjrdn
I just brought home a Samsung 2232BW and unfortunately, games (UT3/Crysis) were still blurry. I returned it to BB (no restocking fee on monitors) and went to CC and picked up a 2253BW. Gaming/blurryness they seem the same to me.

I'm contemplating trying the 2232GW, but I'm sure it'll be blurry too.

I just wanted to give a heads up to any gamers looking to try these monitors, because CC does charge the 15% restocking fee on monitors. They consider going from the 2253BW to the 2232GW an upgrade (because it's more expensive) and will waive the fee, but if you wanted to go back to the 2253BW, you'd have to pay it on the more expensive monitor.

where you playing at the lcds native resolution? maybe you mean ghosting but neither of those monitors should have that either. I used to have the 2232BW so I would know.

 

[redlinez33]

I am pretty sure now that the LG W2452T uses the same panel as the LG panel thats used in the HP w2408...........

(there are 2 different versions of the w2408, one with samsung and one with LG panel).

How can I tell you ask?? Few ways, but the easiest is in UT there is a level called sandstorm. During the storm the HP monitor showed bad color banding, this monitor does the same. Most people wouldnt notice this probably, but I have been cursed with being picky

 

[nevbie]

Tasiin, try to compare the monitors with http://www.humanbenchmark.com/...reactiontime/index.php or a similar reaction time test. After some tries you should note if the input lag hinders you in this test (and how much on average). At least I'll try something like this when I get my A4 poland-manufactured LP2065 S-IPS up and running (that was what I got here in Europe.. we have only one model, AT instead of A4 or A8, but the packaging shows both AT and A4).

 

[Retriever II]

Originally posted by: Tasiin
I'm really surprised about the input lag too. Most people with these monitors claim that neither of them have noticeable input lag, and while that seems to be true in the Dell's case, I felt that there was something wrong with the HP right off the bat. The mouse feels sort of "heavy", and there is now quite a bit of mouse lag when playing games with v-sync on (which adds a lot of lag by itself) compared to to the Dell or my CRT. I'm sure that the amount of input lag isn't as bad as some of the larger VA panels like the 2407WFP, but it was more than enough for me to notice unaided.

That's interesting. Coming from a CRT, I couldn't tell any noticeable input lag. Maybe I'm just not receptive to it. Probably.

And for everyone's record, my LP2065 was an A8 model.

Can someone prescribe me some pills to make the anti-glare finish go away? We got some Dell Ultrasharp, 19" screens donated to our school a few days ago and I got to set one up. Don't know what panel it is - it's a S-IPS from inspection, but it also had a pretty nasty anti-glare coating on it. Not as bad as the HP, but enough for my Boss to think something was wrong with it and go back to his 6-bit TN panel (the horror). Is there some loose association with S-IPS and strong anti-glare?

 

[EEsRULE]

I noticed redlinez33 expressed some potential buyer's remorse over on hardforum.com about spending $200 more for the PLANAR PX2611W over the DoubleSight DS-263N:

Originally Posted by redlinez33
Same panel as the Planar 26"? Crap just ordered the planar, watch this be better and $200 cheaper :-\

I was wondering what owners of either one of these monitors thought about them? Since they're the "same panel as the LCD2690WUXi without the extra viewing angle compensation film", $699.99 may be a real bargain (compared to $1200 for the NEC LCD2690WUXi).

I'm still apprehensive about buying a TN panel (BenQ G2400W or Samsung 245BW). Especially after having seen that YouTube video review of the 245BW, and how bad the viewing angle is vertically. Four years ago when I bought the Samsung 213T, the consensus of reviews I read back then was that TN panels were to be avoided.

 

[Tasiin]

I don't think I'm really changing my opinion about it. Now that the monitor's been on for a while I can see it more clearly again, but it still doesn't seem as bad as before. Maybe I'm just getting used to it? I actually asked someone else to take a look at the yellow patch when I first noticed it, and they agreed that it looked yellow and were able to identify the portion of the screen it was in without me pointing it out, so it's definitely not just me.

The HP really doesn't seem to have the bands at all. When I look at it up close on a black image, all I see is the usual very fine "mesh" like effect that you see on most LCD monitors. The Dell has thick horizontal bands running through it instead that can be seen even when I'm sitting pretty far back. I tried taking a few pictures of it, but just got a blurry mess.

I agree that those flickering tests are worthless. I looked at solid gray images instead, and it was also noticeable during normal use if the brightness was low enough. At 45 brightness, I could see it happening on my desktop background (one of the Vista defaults). At 0, there's a huge wave going through any solid and light color, the worst being gray. I don't think it's even a question of being sensitive to it or not at that point; if your monitor is doing it, you will see it. I had to keep it at about 80 and lower the brightness in the Nvidia control panel to get the flickering under control. There's a ten page long thread on Dell's forums about this issue, and lots of recent complaints about it happening on the newest revision (which I have).

I compared both of them to a Dell P992 CRT, and the 2007WFP was almost always either within a hair's breadth of it or had identical times. The HP was behind in every shot, with the highest lag of about 47ms. The worst time I saw on the 2007WFP was 32ms, but the average was much better for the Dell. I never saw the LP2065 and the CRT displaying the same time, but the 2007WFP did several times. This probably explains why the HP was so far behind so frequently when I compared them directly.

Here are a few of the shots:

2007WFP's best time
2007WFP's worst time

LP2065's best time
LP2065's worst time

I tried that reaction time test, and it actually seemed to mirror my results pretty much exactly. I'd get about 250 average on the LP2065 and between 180-190 on the CRT.

I almost feel bad for thinking about returning this just for the input lag (and the slight yellow tint, I guess) since it seems to be fine otherwise. It's just not as good of a gaming monitor as the 2007WFP is due to this, even though they're similar otherwise. The input lag is annoying on the desktop as well, but I wouldn't say it's enough to really get in the way. For desktop work I'd still have to go with the HP due to the 4:3 aspect ratio and the flickering on the WFP, but if I get very lucky and get a 2007FP without issues, it seems like it'd be the best of both worlds. Sigh...