[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: dderidex
<<Advice fishing:

Time for an LCD upgrade. Thing is, I'm being very limited with the budget primarily because I just don't use the PC with high-demanding applications enough to need something spendy. Also don't need a lot of real estate, as we have a modest sized condo, so 30"+ monitors are just ridiculous.

For comparison, I'm currently running a 5:4 ratio 17" Sony SDM-HS75P. I like the responsiveness and color of this monitor plenty.

However, we are watching quite a bit of movies on it, and I'd like to get a monitor more 'flat' than 'tall'...so, looking at the widescreen (1440x900) 19" LCD monitors.

I happen to PARTICULARLY like (about the monitor I have, and my wife's laptop) the 'glossy' coatings newer LCDs seem to have. I had a few Dells back in the day (2005fpw, for example) and rather HATED the look of them without it.

Anyway, budget is $200.

This one seems like an obvious choice...thoughts?

I have never heard anything about that Dell, but I might suggest an HP w1907 instead. It's $220 at Newegg, though.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824176077

This is really the only 19" glossy I know as I don't often recommend that form factor. Due to your budget though I can see why this is your only choice.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Dashel
Would anyone be able to tell me how my current Dell 2001FP 20" LCD would stack up with the newer Dell 2407 or 2408 monitors? Beyond the obvious like size and widescreen, I'm talking more in terms of input lag or ghosting or colors etc.

In short, if I'm happy gaming with my Dell 2001FP will I be happy with a 24" 2408?

Your 2001FP is probably an IPS panel (although I believe VAs were in the 2001s as well?)

The main issue I foresee is input lag. It has three frames, which is not all that bad. I think you'll be happy with the high contrast and size of it. It also has a wide gamut backlight for more vibrant colors in games. Ghosting should be about equal.

But you may want to get it from somewhere you can return it, just in case. I am pretty sure you can return it to Dell within 21 (15?) days in the US but you'll probably want to confirm this with a rep. Keep in mind 'return' is not the same as 'exchange', which just means you'll be handed another refurb. Return means you'll be getting a refund and perhaps a 15% restocking fee.

 

[redlinez33]

dell lets you return monitors for 21days, and if the return is defective they will pay for shipping back.

 

[xtknight]

Some VX2435wm icc profiles here:

http://lcdresource.com/icc/VX2435wm/

Read .txt for more info. I didn't happen to record the settings for all of them but I found that:
a) the monitor was great by default
b) the profiles didn't vary by much

So one setting fits all, if you will. Just change the brightness and be happy.

If you want calibration for a different setting I can give it a try (I won't have the monitor for too much longer).

The VX2435wm's scaling is odd. The 1:1 mode is blurry on the desktop. Actually, all the modes are very blurry as if on VGA, and adjusting sharpness helps only marginally. Do other VX2435s owner find this to be the case? Underwhelming compared to the LCD2690's scaling, certainly.

If you increase the sharpness, the text gets a green tint to it and it looks very bad, at least in 1:1 mode. Honestly everything else is not bad w/ sharpness increased.

Colors are still very good, IMO. But it's not hard to get the response time control (or lack thereof) to produce streaks of three inches by moving dark windows around. For desktop use it doesn't really matter to me but for dark games I'd be looking elsewhere.

VX2435wm Summary:
- Poor response time control (streaks of inches or more on some dark colors).
- Great default color accuracy; quite suitable for photo editing without a colorimeter. Although default settings may reveal dark details a tad too much so you might want to lower gamma just a tad.
- Buggy. Scaling looked horrible, now it looks fine.... ???
- It uses a 6-bit DAC; FRC is hardly noticeable, though. Only if you scrutinize the dark grayscale, in big chunks.
- Contrast is good, but not overwhelming for a VA panel. 800:1.
- Gray shift is apparent and sometimes annoying (all VA panels).
- Text reproduction is great, at least at native resolution.
- Very easy on the eyes.
- Input lag on par with other 24-26" LCDs: images (VX2435 vs LCD26, clone 1920x1200 DVI): http://lcdresource.com/images/inputlag_vx2435 ; so roughly 2-3 frames.

 

[imported_crackbone]

I had a really similar question as Dashel.

My current monitor is a Dell 2000fp - specs are here: http://www.prad.de/en/guide/screen673.html (there's an annoying pop-up, sorry). It's the only place I can find info about it.

Now, I'd like to move to a widescreen, but the info I have indicates the 2000fp is an IPS panel, which makes me think I won't care for a TN panel, especially a 24". I'm trying to find a local dealer that has the BenQ 24" so I can get a feel for it, but buying a TN sight unseen gives me the heebie jeebies. That leaves me with the Doublesight/Planar 25.5" H-IPS as the most logical option.

I guess my question is, based on what the 2000fp specs are, is there anything (other than size) that would be noticeable between the two? Color, contrast, brightness, etc. I know a lot of these measurements are kind of worthless coming from manufacturers, but I'm wondering if I'd just be buying a larger version of my current monitor or getting significantly improved IPS tech.

 

[Triplehammer]

The Viewsonic VX2435wm is out of stock at newegg, but is still available at www.pcconnection.com for $566 after a $100 rebate. I'd heard a few weeks back that it went out of stock at Circuit City because it had been discontinued.

xtnight, there's always a lot of concern about the connection suites on monitors, particularly when used with consoles, but would HDMI/DVI switches like the ones at monoprice, here, mitigate that issue?

 

[afuturestrader]

What Monitor Would You Recommend For Office Work?

I have been looking a monitors on and off for a few months to go with a new computer. The computer is ordered, time for some displays and update from CRT.

Many of you have far more expertise in this area than I so ....

The use would be for general office work - web browsing, email, IM, word documents, presentation creation etc. The second use if financial software, mostly 2d charts. No gaming or movies.

The most recent monitor productivity study linked below is very interesting and colors my selections.

http://blogs.wsj.com/biztech/2...ors-more-productivity/

Since my setup uses a lot of screen real estate I am looking at using either two 24 inch displays or two to three 20 inch displays.

For 20 inch displays my thought is the HP LP2065 or maybe a Dell ultra sharp.

The 24 inch choice seems more difficult given that I would prefer to keep the per monitor cost under $500 if possible. The Soyo and Westinghouse get a lot of mention. I have also seen reference to a reasonably priced 24 inch LG but I cannot seem to locate it for sale below $600.

Preferences-

1. Anti-glare
2. Non-Tn (concerned about viewing angles)
3. USB ports (fewer plugs into the portable laptop purchased for use with the displays)

What 24 inch monitor would you suggest?

Would you suggest the 20 inch or 24 inch option?

Thanks in advance

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
I dont know, all i remember is returning the 2408 because of it. I havent exactly returned my 2707 yet

So I guess ALL VA panels have this problem when the screen gets to big (seems 24" +)......

Now I have to decide should I live with this, or go back to the doublesight which has evenly lit screen, but has the glow problem and has low contrast.................. Decisions decisions

I've been there...and the IPS is just better. The white glow is the only compromise you have to make, and is relatively minor compared to the myriad of wierdo VA problems. If you can, get both at the same time and fire up something like FEAR (look at the shadows) or Rome Total War (notice the color shift between the center of the screen and the sides in the 3D strategy map) so you can directly compare the differences. I guarantee you'll be shocked.

Adjusting contrast, brightness, and gamma together will go a long way toward fixing the contrast/blacks. Just turning the brightness down doesn't give you enough range; you've got to tweak the gamma as well if you want darker mids.

 

[Gatss]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Some VX2435wm icc profiles here:

http://lcdresource.com/icc/VX2435wm/

Read .txt for more info. I didn't happen to record the settings for all of them but I found that:
a) the monitor was great by default
b) the profiles didn't vary by much

So one setting fits all, if you will. Just change the brightness and be happy.

If you want calibration for a different setting I can give it a try (I won't have the monitor for too much longer).

The VX2435wm's scaling is odd. The 1:1 mode is blurry on the desktop. Actually, all the modes are very blurry as if on VGA, and adjusting sharpness helps only marginally. Do other VX2435s owner find this to be the case? Underwhelming compared to the LCD2690's scaling, certainly.

If you increase the sharpness, the text gets a green tint to it and it looks very bad, at least in 1:1 mode. Honestly everything else is not bad w/ sharpness increased.

Colors are still very good, IMO. But it's not hard to get the response time control (or lack thereof) to produce streaks of three inches by moving dark windows around. For desktop use it doesn't really matter to me but for dark games I'd be looking elsewhere.

VX2435wm Summary:
- Poor response time control (streaks of inches or more on some dark colors).
- Great default color accuracy; quite suitable for photo editing without a colorimeter. Although default settings may reveal dark details a tad too much so you might want to lower gamma just a tad.
- Buggy. Scaling looked horrible, now it looks fine.... ???
- It uses a 6-bit DAC; FRC is hardly noticeable, though. Only if you scrutinize the dark grayscale, in big chunks.
- Contrast is good, but not overwhelming for a VA panel. 800:1.
- Gray shift is apparent and sometimes annoying (all VA panels).
- Text reproduction is great, at least at native resolution.
- Very easy on the eyes.
- Input lag on par with other 24-26" LCDs: images (VX2435 vs LCD26, clone 1920x1200 DVI): http://lcdresource.com/images/inputlag_vx2435 ; so roughly 2-3 frames.

I don't notice 1:1 mode causing any sort of blurriness compared to full screen but those are the only two settings I have tried using for an extended period of time. I have my computer connected to the monitor via the HDMI port so my Sharpness, Tint, Color, Fine Tune, HV Position and Horizontal Size menu options are all greyed out and unavailable. The reason I have been testing out the Full Screen Vs. 1:1 aspect ratios is because I have a PS2 connected to the VX2435 via the standard analog RCA plugs. I don't mind having to switch the input manually but I also have to switch the aspect ratio everytime I go from the computer to the PS2. If I leave the VX2435 on 1:1 mode the PS2 screen size is tiny, it requires Full Screen. If I leave the VX2435 on full screen it stretches out games like Battlefiled 2 which makes the game look worse. It's a small gripe and one I can live with.

I am glad you mentioned the detail in the dark images. That is really what was getting lost when I would view websites or images on other monitors. Other than most uncalibrated monitors looking a bit "cooler" than the VX2435 which seems to have a "warmer" more natural color cast to it, the detail in dark images is the one thing I will have to keep in mind while designing.

Thanks for the Profiles and settings!

 

[shinobiobi]

been following this thread for a bit, and i finally got a new monitor this week, so i thought i'd register and join in the discussion.

i got the samsung 2253bw, and i'm loving it except for a few things that i'll chalk up to my inexperience with lcd's. i'm having of trouble tuning it so that the brightness/contrast is comfortable when i'm just browsing the web or chatting, black text on white background strains my eyes a bit, i just can't seem to get that right fit i had on my old lcd. if anyone could point me to an .icc profile a tuning guide/tips, it would be appreciated. also, how would i go about figuring out what kind of panel i have on my model? seems like everyone who's ordered one recently has gotten a cmo, but i'd like to find out so i can report back if there are others.

for the pros, games look really great, no display lag that i can detect, and 1:1 mode works pretty well. no dead pixels, side bleeding is minimal, the image is very consistent across the entire screen. vertical viewing angle is also pretty good, i start to slouch lower in my chair when i get lazy, and the display is still pretty good, but it does get a bit darker.

edit:
also, this is a unrelated to LCDs, but i also got a new video card before my monitor, i went from a x1950pro to a 8800gt. when i put the card in my old monitor, i felt a similiar effect having to do with the eyestrain on text that i did have on my ati card, i think it has something to do with the sharpness setting. if anyone is familiar with this situation, any advice would be appreciated.

 

[NZAmoeba]

I'm looking to upgrade my current PC setup to something which will have good gaming performance, and to go with it I want a nice shiny new 24" monitor. I've looked at the list of recommended LCD's in your list, but I have a problem in that a large number of them don't appear to be available in New Zealand.

I'm gauging availability by using a local webcrawler site called pricespy.co.nz, which does a reasonable job of listing what's available and ordering them by price.

If you go here: http://www.pricespy.co.nz/cat_5.html#g147 you'll see a list of what it's found. I'm wondering which among them would be the most ideal for me. What I'm looking for is something that will perform well in games, but with a good image quality as well. I don't mind spending a little bit of money if it means I'm getting something that's great. I was waiting for the Dell 2408 to be released, however I've heard it has a pretty high input lag, which for gaming worries me.

One of the things that stuck out on that list was the HP LP2465, which seemed to be nicely priced mid-range. However the input lag is still high (40ms). I take it this would be a problem with games (such as TF2) or am I just being neurotic?

My current monitor that I'm quite used to is the Samsung SyncMaster 713N, which I recently discovered was a TN panel (I never knew!) and I always thought the viewing angles were fine. Is there a major difference in viewing angles between a 17" and 24" monitors?

Given my limited selection, what would be recommended? Or failing that, is there one of the recommended displays available from an NZ retailer that I haven't found? (No way do I want to risk warranty drama overseas)

 

[KLC]

I've been visiting this thread for a few weeks. I've built a new system and am currently using my old Dell 1905FP. It's a great monitor but we want a little more real estate and will give the old computer and monitor to the kids for school and play.

I will be doing office type work, web browsing, photoshop digital photo work and video editing, no games.

I'm very interested in the HP LP2065 or the HP LP2465. Right now they have a $50 and $75 rebate respectively. You can get the 2065 for $300 after MIR and the 2465 for $545 after MIR.

I have one question about these monitors that I haven't been able to answer. I posted it as a separate topic yesterday but I got no response and few reads. So I'm hoping that xtknight or someone else more knowledgeable than me can provide an answer.

For both monitors there are two model numbers. The 20" monitor model #'s are EF227A4 and EF227A8. The 24" monitor model #'s are EF224A4 and EF224A8.

In both cases it is the A8 model that is rebated. And in both cases the A4 model is significantly more expensive online, from $100-$200 more.

I have searched the HP website and googled the model #'s but I can't find out what the difference is between them. Why is the A4 so much more expensive? What is better about it?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Gatss
I don't notice 1:1 mode causing any sort of blurriness compared to full screen but those are the only two settings I have tried using for an extended period of time. I have my computer connected to the monitor via the HDMI port so my Sharpness, Tint, Color, Fine Tune, HV Position and Horizontal Size menu options are all greyed out and unavailable.

I have mine connected via HDMI and I have sharpness available on all resolutions except native. I am using an HDMI->DVI-I adapter. I know it's using digital (single-link) since HDMI can't take analog and my mode is listed as TMDS 155.0 MHz (~160 MHz = single-link) in the Linux log (good for debugging). Also lots of EDID issues (common with ViewSonics).

(--) NVIDIA(0): ViewSonic VX2435wm (DFP-1): 155.0 MHz maximum pixel clock
(--) NVIDIA(0): ViewSonic VX2435wm (DFP-1): Internal Single Link TMDS
(II) NVIDIA(0): Display Devices found referenced in MetaMode: DFP-0, DFP-1

(WW) NVIDIA(0): The EDID for ViewSonic VX2435wm (DFP-1) contradicts itself:
(WW) NVIDIA(0): mode "1920x1080" is specified in the EDID; however, the
(WW) NVIDIA(0): EDID's valid HorizSync range (30.000-82.000 kHz) would
(WW) NVIDIA(0): exclude this mode's HorizSync (28.1 kHz); ignoring
(WW) NVIDIA(0): HorizSync check for mode "1920x1080".

I get eight messages like the above for various resolutions. But I don't have any problems using the various resolutions. The VX is a little slower at syncing to the signal than my LCD26.

My scaling used to be blurry but suddenly it cleared itself up after I enabled GPU scaling(?) and disabled it. Doesn't make much sense to me that the GPU would have anything to do with it, but it could have been a bug with my graphics card driver I suppose.

The reason I have been testing out the Full Screen Vs. 1:1 aspect ratios is because I have a PS2 connected to the VX2435 via the standard analog RCA plugs. I don't mind having to switch the input manually but I also have to switch the aspect ratio everytime I go from the computer to the PS2. If I leave the VX2435 on 1:1 mode the PS2 screen size is tiny, it requires Full Screen. If I leave the VX2435 on full screen it stretches out games like Battlefiled 2 which makes the game look worse. It's a small gripe and one I can live with.

I am glad you mentioned the detail in the dark images. That is really what was getting lost when I would view websites or images on other monitors. Other than most uncalibrated monitors looking a bit "cooler" than the VX2435 which seems to have a "warmer" more natural color cast to it, the detail in dark images is the one thing I will have to keep in mind while designing.

Thanks for the Profiles and settings!

Yes, the VX is quite warm. This contributes to its great "easy on the eyes" feel, actually.

 

[pilafi]

Originally posted by: xtknight
The VX2435wm's scaling is odd. The 1:1 mode is blurry on the desktop. Actually, all the modes are very blurry as if on VGA, and adjusting sharpness helps only marginally. Do other VX2435s owner find this to be the case? Underwhelming compared to the LCD2690's scaling, certainly.

If you increase the sharpness, the text gets a green tint to it and it looks very bad, at least in 1:1 mode. Honestly everything else is not bad w/ sharpness increased.

I've just noticed this myself. If I set the monitor's aspect ratio to 'full screen' and then change from the native resolution to a smaller one, it gets really blurry. If I then switch to '1:1' I get the blurry image you described. However, if I change to a different resolution (keeping the '1:1' aspect), text gets crisp again (likewise, if I switch back to the previous resolution). Things get more complicated, since I can't seem to enable GPU scaling. Nvidia's control panel won't let me change to any option except for panel's scaling.

EDIT: Actually, I can switch to a different scaling option, only on lower resolutions than native. But once I select anything else, the desktop switches to 800x600 and panel scaling is selected (and used). All this on Vista x64.

PS: Oh, and thanks for the color profiles, xtknight. Your settings back up my impression that blue needs a little boost.

 

[redlinez33]

xtknight so the Viewsonic does the same thing as this dell? The left side of the screen seems to have lighter colors than the rest????

I guess its just the technology, but you would figure that reviewers of this monitor would see the problem and report it..... It almost seems like 24" + is to big for a VA panel.....


Whats weird is its only the left side thats really *brighter*. The right side only does it at extreme angles............. Ugh.

 

[muppet22]

my 27" pva panel is not like that

Originally posted by: muppet22
redlinez - my 275t+ is somewhat lighter on the left and right edges (if i look straight on), but not to the point where i would see it unless i was looking for it with 1 color spanning the whole screen.

 

[redlinez33]

so when you go to hardocp forums for example it doesnt look like the picture i posted?

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
It almost seems like 24" + is to big for a VA panel.....

Thats exactly the problem with both the 24" VAs and the 26" IPSs; the panels are so damn big that even viewing straight on and sitting still, you get VA color shift or IPS white glow on the extreme sides or corners as if viewing from an angle.

 

[redlinez33]

ya but NEC proved that they can get rid of the glow.... I just wonder why the left side is worse than the right on this Dell. There has to be a reason.


I guess it has something to do with how the pixels are lined up or whatever.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
ya but NEC proved that they can get rid of the glow....

Yes, and the cost for that and the color critical electronics was 2-3 frames of input lag. So you just trade one problem for another...although if you're not a gamer, the lag doesn't matter and the 2690 is the best you can get.

Originally posted by: redlinez33
I just wonder why the left side is worse than the right on this Dell. There has to be a reason.

Well that indicates that it has something to do with the backlight. For instance, the backlight is a U-shape, and the closed end is brighter (which has been known to happen on other monitors). Or you have subtle bleeding that may not be striking in and of itself, but does make that part of the screen brighter (just a guess). Have other users reported the same problem?

 

[Tasiin]

All right, thanks. I'm going to head down to the Microcenter near me this weekend and see if they have a better selection than Best Buy, which has practically nothing here, and I'll see if they have any of your recommendations or anything decent at all.

I'm still a little unsure of VA panels though -- their tendency towards high input lag is a bit concerning. Apparently the gamma shifting on some of them is enough to cause unusual amounts of eyestrain for some people as well, and I could easily be one of them given the trouble I've had with IPS panels. Seems the LP2065 was definitely the cause of my headaches; they disappeared two days after I returned it and went back to my CRT, even though I'm using the computer more now.

On a somewhat unrelated note, do you have any opinion on the Spyder2 colorimeters? I was considering picking up the $55ish Express version since I'd like to calibrate a few of the CRTs I have around here (the colors are way off on at least one) and I could make use of it on the new LCD as well if I find one. It seems to have gotten generally favorable reviews for such a cheap calibrator, but I'm just wondering if it'd be worth it or if there'd be a big difference with a more expensive calibrator. I don't do anything that requires perfect color accuracy, but I thought it might help out on a few of the displays I have here.

 

[redlinez33]

Well, actually did a search on hardocp forums and found few posts mentioning the left side being brighter. It seems pretty typical for the left side to be this way on SPVA panels.... I cant accept this, it annoys the crapola out of me.......... Looks like im going back to IPS. Probably the doublesight since its cheaper, and has extra DVI port

 

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
so when you go to hardocp forums for example it doesnt look like the picture i posted?

right

 

[pilafi]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
xtknight so the Viewsonic does the same thing as this dell? The left side of the screen seems to have lighter colors than the rest????

I can't see that on my VX2435wm, there's no bright side. There is a drop in contrast (dark colours get brighter and bright colours get a grey-yellowish tint), though, depending on the angle you look at and that's a known VA panel issue. If you're closer to the left side, the right side will have brighter colours and vice versa. It's more evident, the closer you sit to the monitor (<50cm).

 

[tnecniv]

Hey guys, my Samsung 226BW should be coming any second now, and I was wondering if there was anything special I had to do when I first use it, or if I can just plug and play..