[Retired] The LCD Thread

[redlinez33]

ya i keep saying brightness when I mean something else. :-\

 

[ericinho]

@Xtknight: in your list of screens for print or webdesign brands like Eizo and LaCie are missing... how would you rank those among the once listed now?

 

[shinobiobi]

i'm really having some trouble getting my 2253bw calibrated so that my eyes don't feel strained when i use it for general use, text especially. i noticed that my desktop seemed pretty different when i changed from my ati x1950pro to a 8800gt. everything just seems more...'blaring', if anyone understands what i mean by that. any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[SomeOneS]

Originally posted by: ericinho
@Xtknight: in your list of screens for print or webdesign brands like Eizo and LaCie are missing... how would you rank those among the once listed now?

I would like to know this as well, as I'm looking for a IPS (or S-PVA) 22"-25" widescreen monitor, chiefly to hook up to my laptop while at home for graphics use, and also preferably usable with a Wii for games and even movies. Planar, Doublesight (which sounds about ideal) and Dell are not available in Finland...

 

[danielajurcevice]

Ah Finland... home of Jari Litmanen

anyway, basically in Europe IPS screens of 24" do not exist for some reason. Either 26" or 21" it appears.
at Prad.de (http://www.prad.de/en/index.html) they also reviewed a few Eizo's with 'very good' scores.
They appear to do good with graphic applications and movies as well. I am not sure about games, since usually the more aimed at graphic professionals, the slower they are.

 

[shaitan607]

I am thinking of picking up a pair of the BenQ G2000W monitors. Anyone have any experience using one of these?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: crackbone
I had a really similar question as Dashel.

My current monitor is a Dell 2000fp - specs are here: http://www.prad.de/en/guide/screen673.html (there's an annoying pop-up, sorry). It's the only place I can find info about it.

Now, I'd like to move to a widescreen, but the info I have indicates the 2000fp is an IPS panel, which makes me think I won't care for a TN panel, especially a 24". I'm trying to find a local dealer that has the BenQ 24" so I can get a feel for it, but buying a TN sight unseen gives me the heebie jeebies. That leaves me with the Doublesight/Planar 25.5" H-IPS as the most logical option.

I guess my question is, based on what the 2000fp specs are, is there anything (other than size) that would be noticeable between the two? Color, contrast, brightness, etc. I know a lot of these measurements are kind of worthless coming from manufacturers, but I'm wondering if I'd just be buying a larger version of my current monitor or getting significantly improved IPS tech.

You would probably be getting well-improved IPS tech, actually. H-IPS is high-aperture-ratio IPS, which provides a contrast improvement. Those H-IPSes you are talking about are also wide gamut, which means they will appear a lot more vibrant than your 2000FP. (The BenQ 24" of course, is VA, not IPS.) You may just want to commit blindly to an H-IPS panel rather than taking a risk with a VA you can't see locally either.

 

[philhans]

Interesting occurance with the doublesight DS-263N, it seems that there was atleast one floating around that actually had the A-TW polarizer. This coming from ToastyX from the hardocp forums. See http://www.hardforum.com/showt...2285812#post1032285812
If there were some way to guarantee getting one with that I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Still might go for one, but I might wait a little to see if anything else comes up.

 

[irvinenomore]

Originally posted by: shaitan607
I am thinking of picking up a pair of the BenQ G2000W monitors. Anyone have any experience using one of these?

There seems to be generally positive feedback at HardForum and the information at Prad and DigitalVersus shows it in a good light. Have recently ordered one myself.

 

[shaitan607]

Thanks, but unfortunately those sites only review or talk about the 24" version. I just can't justify spending nearly the same amount of money (more after rebates) for a single monitor when I can get two and just do a dual screen setup. I don't game much, just programming and browsing.

I think I am just gonna go ahead and order the pair tomorrow unless I find something that screams at me NO!

 

[NZAmoeba]

My previous question was long winded, I'll try it again shorter this time:

For high quality and FPS gaming, which out of this limited selection would be suitable?

AOC 416V 24" LCD monitor DVI 1920x1200 5ms
Acer P241W 24" LCD monitor 1920x1200
Acer Al2416WD 24" LCD DVI 6ms 1920x1200
Acer AL2416W 24" LCD, 1920x1200 2 prices
Samsung SyncMaster 245B 24" LCD, 5ms DVI-D 1920x1200
LG L246WH 24" LCD monitor, 4ms 1920x1200 DVI
Philips 240BW8EB 24" LCD monitor, 1920x1200
Samsung 2493HM 24" LCD monitor, 5ms Hdmi
Dell E248WFP 24" LCD monitor
Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP HC 24"
HP LP2465 24" LCD, 8ms 1920x1200 DVI
Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP 24" monitor 1920x1200, DVI
Samsung 244T 24" TFT LCD 16ms 1920x1200
Samsung Syncmaster 245T 24" LCD, 1920x1200, DVI
BENQ FP241W 24" LCD 16ms 1920x1200

This seems to be all that's available in this country.

Additional question: my 17" TN panel doesn't seem to suffer any very noticable viewing angle issues, is the effect more pronounced on a 24" monitor, or am I just not a fussy person?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: afuturestrader
What Monitor Would You Recommend For Office Work?

I have been looking a monitors on and off for a few months to go with a new computer. The computer is ordered, time for some displays and update from CRT.

Many of you have far more expertise in this area than I so ....

The use would be for general office work - web browsing, email, IM, word documents, presentation creation etc. The second use if financial software, mostly 2d charts. No gaming or movies.

The most recent monitor productivity study linked below is very interesting and colors my selections.

http://blogs.wsj.com/biztech/2...ors-more-productivity/

Since my setup uses a lot of screen real estate I am looking at using either two 24 inch displays or two to three 20 inch displays.

For 20 inch displays my thought is the HP LP2065 or maybe a Dell ultra sharp.

The 24 inch choice seems more difficult given that I would prefer to keep the per monitor cost under $500 if possible. The Soyo and Westinghouse get a lot of mention. I have also seen reference to a reasonably priced 24 inch LG but I cannot seem to locate it for sale below $600.

Preferences-

1. Anti-glare
2. Non-Tn (concerned about viewing angles)
3. USB ports (fewer plugs into the portable laptop purchased for use with the displays)

What 24 inch monitor would you suggest?

Would you suggest the 20 inch or 24 inch option?

Thanks in advance

I would rather have two 24" displays personally. On the other hand, it might be preferable to have three IPS panels. Although, there is no guarantee you will get an IPS with the LP2065.

I don't see 24" non-TNs for under $500, at least on Newegg. Of course you might be able to find something cheaper but I can't be looking all over the net for you.

Consider the VX2435wm, LP2465, FP241W, and 2407WFP-HC.

Otherwise then I suppose your only other (best) option is three LP2065s. They're getting pretty darned cheap at $345 + (2 * $295) with rebate. It's not at all clear to me from the rebate form if you can use it for multiple units, but whatever.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...16824176053&Tpk=lp2065

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Tasiin
All right, thanks. I'm going to head down to the Microcenter near me this weekend and see if they have a better selection than Best Buy, which has practically nothing here, and I'll see if they have any of your recommendations or anything decent at all.

I'm still a little unsure of VA panels though -- their tendency towards high input lag is a bit concerning. Apparently the gamma shifting on some of them is enough to cause unusual amounts of eyestrain for some people as well, and I could easily be one of them given the trouble I've had with IPS panels. Seems the LP2065 was definitely the cause of my headaches; they disappeared two days after I returned it and went back to my CRT, even though I'm using the computer more now.

Well I've only found VA panels easier on the eyes, because of higher contrast (than most IPS panels), but that's just me. IPS panels are still fine for me.

On a somewhat unrelated note, do you have any opinion on the Spyder2 colorimeters? I was considering picking up the $55ish Express version since I'd like to calibrate a few of the CRTs I have around here (the colors are way off on at least one) and I could make use of it on the new LCD as well if I find one. It seems to have gotten generally favorable reviews for such a cheap calibrator, but I'm just wondering if it'd be worth it or if there'd be a big difference with a more expensive calibrator. I don't do anything that requires perfect color accuracy, but I thought it might help out on a few of the displays I have here.

I don't really know about the cheaper ones. I'd never bother with them. I'd either care at all or not at all. I recommend going with something like the Spyder2 Pro at least. http://www.buy.com/retail/prod...id=1256978&dcaid=17902

The Huey non-pro colorimeter made red, green, and blue themselves better but made midtones worse. Imagine this...

The cheaper ones have silly limitations and to get past them you'd need better software which can be even more expensive than just getting the Pro pkg here. I like the i1 Display 2 but the Spyder2 Pro is definitely good as well. Just judging by your experience with monitors I think going with anything less than the Pro would probably just make your LCD experience just a little more miserable. The Express ones are off by more than you'd think and I don't know why people bother with them (other than they're cheap I guess but that's a poor justification when you're getting color calibration equipment). Obviously I don't know for sure but as long as I could get certainty and flexibility for $100 more that's what I'd go for.

The Huey Pro is a good value but probably has less software support than i1 and Spyder, and its luminance tracking is sloppy (144 vs 120 nits for example @ TFTCentral): http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/pantone_huey.htm

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
xtknight so the Viewsonic does the same thing as this dell? The left side of the screen seems to have lighter colors than the rest????

I guess its just the technology, but you would figure that reviewers of this monitor would see the problem and report it..... It almost seems like 24" + is to big for a VA panel.....


Whats weird is its only the left side thats really *brighter*. The right side only does it at extreme angles............. Ugh.

It's definitely the VA technology. But it happens just as well on the right side..

You just have more bleeding on the left side.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: tnecniv
Hey guys, my Samsung 226BW should be coming any second now, and I was wondering if there was anything special I had to do when I first use it, or if I can just plug and play..

You can always check for backlight bleeding and dead pixels of course but you want to be using the DVI port and native resolution. Other than that there's not much to do, unless you decide to get a color calibrator.

Originally posted by: redlinez33
ya i keep saying brightness when I mean something else. :-\

Gamma, probably. VA panels suffer from gamma shift where the midtones get brighter in a non-linear way vs. the more extreme tones (think of a mathematical power function).

Originally posted by: ericinho
@Xtknight: in your list of screens for print or webdesign brands like Eizo and LaCie are missing... how would you rank those among the once listed now?

I probably wouldn't bother recommending any Eizo or LaCies that are VAs (gamma shift issues) because they are all very expensive. The IPS ones, maybe, but they haven't come out with new IPS ones in awhile as far as I can tell.

Generally you can just assume these are good anyway. Due to the lack of online reviews of LaCie and Eizo models, I can't validate it any better than you.

What is there right now is really the best. I haven't seen any worthwhile competitors to the LCD2490WUXi from Eizo, in performance or price. Ditto for the LCD2690WUXi. In short, you shouldn't even bother with them unless the NECs somehow don't fit your needs.

The VAs from Eizo and LaCie have exactly the same gamma shift problems. They don't do anything to compensate for it, AFAIK. So, they would be below any IPS panel in my list. The IPS Eizos and LaCies would be at the top along with the NEC IPS panels unless they had some serious problem.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: shinobiobi
i'm really having some trouble getting my 2253bw calibrated so that my eyes don't feel strained when i use it for general use, text especially. i noticed that my desktop seemed pretty different when i changed from my ati x1950pro to a 8800gt. everything just seems more...'blaring', if anyone understands what i mean by that. any help would be greatly appreciated.

I don't really have any idea what you mean by that. Digital Vibrance (NVIDIA) isn't enabled by default. There's sharpness adjustments in the video driver although they are not engaged by default. I guess it's possible your color settings got mucked around with.

Check out ClearType adjustment for the font clarity.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: SomeOneS

Originally posted by: ericinho
@Xtknight: in your list of screens for print or webdesign brands like Eizo and LaCie are missing... how would you rank those among the once listed now?

I would like to know this as well, as I'm looking for a IPS (or S-PVA) 22"-25" widescreen monitor, chiefly to hook up to my laptop while at home for graphics use, and also preferably usable with a Wii for games and even movies. Planar, Doublesight (which sounds about ideal) and Dell are not available in Finland...

Eizo and LaCie available in Finland? They probably carry the same high premium they do in the US, but maybe you guys are more used to it than us cheap Americans.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure their ColorEdge CG series are all IPS:
http://www.eizo.com/products/graphics/index.asp

CEs are PVAs with color management functions. In short, probably not worth it if you can find any other PVA monitor and use a colorimeter.

Are displays NEC available there? They have a 21" IPS option (LCD2190UXi). Actually the smaller PVA panels have less gamma shift it seems (like the LCD2190UXp).

The Eizo HD/SX series despite the cool-sounding name are also PVAs. Again, you should probably look elsewhere for PVAs (HP? BenQ? Belinea? I don't really know what's avaliable there) and buy a colorimeter like the i1 Display 2.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: shaitan607
I am thinking of picking up a pair of the BenQ G2000W monitors. Anyone have any experience using one of these?

Not me. I guess it's probably worth a try, as the G2400W is decent. There can only be so much difference between 20" TN panels and the G series may be the lesser of the evils.

Originally posted by: philhans
Interesting occurance with the doublesight DS-263N, it seems that there was atleast one floating around that actually had the A-TW polarizer. This coming from ToastyX from the hardocp forums. See http://www.hardforum.com/showt...2285812#post1032285812
If there were some way to guarantee getting one with that I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Still might go for one, but I might wait a little to see if anything else comes up.

Hard to say if it's that or just less backlight bleeding but I'm inclined to believe what he's saying as he's tried numerous different IPS panels. That might imply the polarizer is just something cheap you can slap on and we're all getting ripped off with non-filtered H-IPS panels?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: shinobiobi
been following this thread for a bit, and i finally got a new monitor this week, so i thought i'd register and join in the discussion.

i got the samsung 2253bw, and i'm loving it except for a few things that i'll chalk up to my inexperience with lcd's. i'm having of trouble tuning it so that the brightness/contrast is comfortable when i'm just browsing the web or chatting, black text on white background strains my eyes a bit, i just can't seem to get that right fit i had on my old lcd. if anyone could point me to an .icc profile a tuning guide/tips, it would be appreciated. also, how would i go about figuring out what kind of panel i have on my model? seems like everyone who's ordered one recently has gotten a cmo, but i'd like to find out so i can report back if there are others.

for the pros, games look really great, no display lag that i can detect, and 1:1 mode works pretty well. no dead pixels, side bleeding is minimal, the image is very consistent across the entire screen. vertical viewing angle is also pretty good, i start to slouch lower in my chair when i get lazy, and the display is still pretty good, but it does get a bit darker.

edit:
also, this is a unrelated to LCDs, but i also got a new video card before my monitor, i went from a x1950pro to a 8800gt. when i put the card in my old monitor, i felt a similiar effect having to do with the eyestrain on text that i did have on my ati card, i think it has something to do with the sharpness setting. if anyone is familiar with this situation, any advice would be appreciated.

There's no profiles for the 2253BW yet that I'm aware of, but color profiles and service menu info would be available on HardForum if any was available, for sure.

There's no real trick to adjusting brightness and contrast; you just have to adjust both until it seems good to you. But, you can adjust midtone brightness via the video card (actually, before doing that, it's higher quality to adjust it via the monitor). I believe Samsung monitors have color options like Gamma 1, Gamma 2, and Gamma 3 somewhere. Bottom line is, you want to adjust gamma. I'm not sure if the 2253BW has this but most Samsung monitors do.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: NZAmoeba
My previous question was long winded, I'll try it again shorter this time:

For high quality and FPS gaming, which out of this limited selection would be suitable?

AOC 416V 24" LCD monitor DVI 1920x1200 5ms
Acer P241W 24" LCD monitor 1920x1200
Acer Al2416WD 24" LCD DVI 6ms 1920x1200
Acer AL2416W 24" LCD, 1920x1200 2 prices
Samsung SyncMaster 245B 24" LCD, 5ms DVI-D 1920x1200
LG L246WH 24" LCD monitor, 4ms 1920x1200 DVI
Philips 240BW8EB 24" LCD monitor, 1920x1200
Samsung 2493HM 24" LCD monitor, 5ms Hdmi
Dell E248WFP 24" LCD monitor
Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP HC 24"
HP LP2465 24" LCD, 8ms 1920x1200 DVI
Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP 24" monitor 1920x1200, DVI
Samsung 244T 24" TFT LCD 16ms 1920x1200
Samsung Syncmaster 245T 24" LCD, 1920x1200, DVI
BENQ FP241W 24" LCD 16ms 1920x1200

This seems to be all that's available in this country.

Additional question: my 17" TN panel doesn't seem to suffer any very noticable viewing angle issues, is the effect more pronounced on a 24" monitor, or am I just not a fussy person?

(I did see your previous post BTW, just have been slow lately on responses.)

The LP2465 is the easiest choice (good performance and actually good price). Probably same lag as 2408WFP though. And the 2408WFP is wide gamut so it may be a better choice for gaming.

The BenQ FP241W has less lag, it seems, but it is a lot more money. I am pretty sure you could get by with the HP just fine, if that helps. The BenQ is known to have a blackout problem with certain video cards (although it seems workaround solutions for this are available).

A 24" TN is definitely worse than a 17" TN. Overall a 24" VA might actually be worse viewing angle wise because of the gamma shift, but it's not that big of a deal. You notice it only a lot on dark colors. If you do play a lot of dark games though, it may become frustrating. Not that there's anything you can do about it, except put down more money for a 24" IPS (LCD2490WUXi or HZ24W if that's even available).

 

[NZAmoeba]

Originally posted by: xtknight

(I did see your previous post BTW, just have been slow lately on responses.)

The LP2465 is the easiest choice (good performance and actually good price). Probably same lag as 2408WFP though. And the 2408WFP is wide gamut so it may be a better choice for gaming.

The BenQ FP241W has less lag, it seems, but it is a lot more money. I am pretty sure you could get by with the HP just fine, if that helps. The BenQ is known to have a blackout problem with certain video cards (although it seems workaround solutions for this are available).

A 24" TN is definitely worse than a 17" TN. Overall a 24" VA might actually be worse viewing angle wise because of the gamma shift, but it's not that big of a deal. You notice it only a lot on dark colors. If you do play a lot of dark games though, it may become frustrating. Not that there's anything you can do about it, except put down more money for a 24" IPS (LCD2490WUXi or HZ24W if that's even available).

Looks like I'm going to have to find a store that's got both a VA and TN panel side by side so I can get a comparison going. It really sucks that you have to choose between good colour and good speed with no real middle ground. Any new technologies on the horizon?

Otherwise, thanks for your help anyway. I don't know why you chose to maintain such a massive thread where you probably answer the same questions every 5 pages, but I think it should count towards community service hours for doing it!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: NZAmoeba

Originally posted by: xtknight

(I did see your previous post BTW, just have been slow lately on responses.)

The LP2465 is the easiest choice (good performance and actually good price). Probably same lag as 2408WFP though. And the 2408WFP is wide gamut so it may be a better choice for gaming.

The BenQ FP241W has less lag, it seems, but it is a lot more money. I am pretty sure you could get by with the HP just fine, if that helps. The BenQ is known to have a blackout problem with certain video cards (although it seems workaround solutions for this are available).

A 24" TN is definitely worse than a 17" TN. Overall a 24" VA might actually be worse viewing angle wise because of the gamma shift, but it's not that big of a deal. You notice it only a lot on dark colors. If you do play a lot of dark games though, it may become frustrating. Not that there's anything you can do about it, except put down more money for a 24" IPS (LCD2490WUXi or HZ24W if that's even available).

Looks like I'm going to have to find a store that's got both a VA and TN panel side by side so I can get a comparison going. It really sucks that you have to choose between good colour and good speed with no real middle ground. Any new technologies on the horizon?

Otherwise, thanks for your help anyway. I don't know why you chose to maintain such a massive thread where you probably answer the same questions every 5 pages, but I think it should count towards community service hours for doing it!

It's funner than many things I do. I can't guarantee I'll be able to do it forever, but we'll see how it goes.

It's true answering the same questions gets a little tiring (esp. when I have no answer or if it's in the OP), but I really enjoy answering unique questions or recommending LCDs for people with unique needs or just plain picky people. It's just rewarding for me, that's all. Not everyone finds reward in the same things. It makes me feel not so guilty for all the things I don't do.

In 24"+ panels, I wouldn't say it's between speed and color. Something like input lag vs. viewing angles, unless you get a fast expensive IPS like the 3007WFP-HC or DoubleSight 26".

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: KLC
I've been visiting this thread for a few weeks. I've built a new system and am currently using my old Dell 1905FP. It's a great monitor but we want a little more real estate and will give the old computer and monitor to the kids for school and play.

I will be doing office type work, web browsing, photoshop digital photo work and video editing, no games.

I'm very interested in the HP LP2065 or the HP LP2465. Right now they have a $50 and $75 rebate respectively. You can get the 2065 for $300 after MIR and the 2465 for $545 after MIR.

I have one question about these monitors that I haven't been able to answer. I posted it as a separate topic yesterday but I got no response and few reads. So I'm hoping that xtknight or someone else more knowledgeable than me can provide an answer.

For both monitors there are two model numbers. The 20" monitor model #'s are EF227A4 and EF227A8. The 24" monitor model #'s are EF224A4 and EF224A8.

In both cases it is the A8 model that is rebated. And in both cases the A4 model is significantly more expensive online, from $100-$200 more.

I have searched the HP website and googled the model #'s but I can't find out what the difference is between them. Why is the A4 so much more expensive? What is better about it?

We don't really know what the difference is. There was actually a question like this a few pages back. Simply put in "EF227A4" for Search Topic at the top right and you'll see the whole discussion. AFAIK nothing has changed since. You can get an IPS panel with either.

 

[xtknight]

More notes about the VX2435wm:

Any transitions from or to colors with a channel of (0-15)/255 brightness are extremely slow. This is the common factor among the slow transitions on this LCD. Very common for VA panels, and I bet it's a little worse than the 2407WFP-HC in this aspect. Still usable for gaming although it might get a little annoying if you play lots of really dark games. IPS panels are immune from the problem.

 

[redlinez33]

xtknight, I dont know if you saw this or not, but toastyX just received a new DS DS-263N monitor (that 26" IPS panel) and the new one he received has a built in polarizer, like the NEC.