[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
xtknight, I dont know if you saw this or not, but toastyX just received a new DS DS-263N monitor (that 26" IPS panel) and the new one he received has a built in polarizer, like the NEC.

Yup, see above.

 

[redlinez33]

I will be getting my DS next week (already ordered) if its true about the polarizer thing, the planar shouldnt even be recommended. $200 less and much better picture quality = no brainer.... If you must have height adjustment (the planar BARELY qualifies here) then $200 easily buys you a very nice base.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
I will be getting my DS next week (already ordered) if its true about the polarizer thing, the planar shouldnt even be recommended. $200 less and much better picture quality = no brainer.... If you must have height adjustment (the planar BARELY qualifies here) then $200 easily buys you a very nice base.

Well some people may not have access to the DoubleSight but do have access to the Planar, so that's why it is still recommended below the DS.

 

[shinobiobi]

what i mean by blaring is that, when i'm on my desktop, things like white or gray backgrounds don't look clean, like they're grainy or dirty. this in turn also affects the way i see text on the backgrounds. is this a monitor issue or a video card issue? is there anything i can do about it? games look phenomenal, but this is very troubling for all other applications.

i'm really considering trading in this monitor for something else. it's great for the games, but i need an equal amount of premium on desktop work, especially since i work at home. can anyone shoot me a few recommendations for the 22" sized monitors? my budget is pretty high, up to about 400 dollars.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: shinobiobi
what i mean by blaring is that, when i'm on my desktop, things like white or gray backgrounds don't look clean, like they're grainy or dirty. this in turn also affects the way i see text on the backgrounds. is this a monitor issue or a video card issue? is there anything i can do about it? games look phenomenal, but this is very troubling for all other applications.

i'm really considering trading in this monitor for something else. it's great for the games, but i need an equal amount of premium on desktop work, especially since i work at home doing graphic design. can anyone shoot me a few recommendations for the 22" sized monitors? my budget is pretty high, up to about 400 dollars.

That sounds like a monitor problem (esp. TN panels or bad coatings) to me. I don't see how a video card could make a color "dirty".

22"s are all TNs so I don't know what to recommend you, but you could try a glossy panel instead to see if that fixes the problem (like HP w2207).

 

[shinobiobi]

i'm not sure 'dirty' is the right word to use for it, but if i could use a photo analogy, it seems like there's noise going on, on the screen when i'm doing anything but gaming.

could you recommend me a few more models?

 

[tw33ter]

What's the best 28", more or less, monitor for gaming?

 

[KLC]

xtknight, thanks for taking the time to respond to everyone. I usually try to search before asking, I don't know how I missed that.

 

[TheNewbie]

Looking to buy a 22" 16:9 LCD, was wondering what should I worry about the most, i.e how critical is contrast ratio, refresh rate etc. thanks

 

[davebarboza]

Mini-review here. I've been tempted by the DoubleSight 26", but before I drop $700 I thought I'd try out some of the cheaper options. Last night I went to BestBuy and after 30 minutes of indecision, I left with the Gateway FHD2400 primarily because I wanted a glossy screen and I couldn't find an HP on the shelf. First impressions: Insanely bright, excellent clarity & color. The stand, having wheels, makes pivoting a little too easy. I fired up a couple photo editing programs and was very pleased. Not just with the extra space (which is more awesome than words) but with the clarity and color. Though they're only about 10% larger, photos look so much better. Unfortunately I'm able to see imperfections from dirty lenses & sensors more clearly. Switching the app between monitors is a huge difference. I do notice loss of detail in dark shadows.

Two huge fails: There was some tearing/banding/smearing in a couple HD xvid/divx movies. I didn't test this on the other monitors, so I'm not sure if I just never noticed it on the smaller screen or its the result of a encoding. Also, by merely slouching in my chair the screen darkens noticeably. I have awful posture and an awful chair, so I'm constantly moving around in it. Reading while standing? Forgetaboutit. I think this will ultimately being returned for the HP 2465.

I'm coming from 3 fairly old/mediocre 19" LCDs (Hyundai L90D, Dell 1905, Samsung 920nw) so that may also set my bar pretty low.

 

[ericinho]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: ericinho
@Xtknight: in your list of screens for print or webdesign brands like Eizo and LaCie are missing... how would you rank those among the once listed now?

I probably wouldn't bother recommending any Eizo or LaCies that are VAs (gamma shift issues) because they are all very expensive. The IPS ones, maybe, but they haven't come out with new IPS ones in awhile as far as I can tell.

Generally you can just assume these are good anyway. Due to the lack of online reviews of LaCie and Eizo models, I can't validate it any better than you.

What is there right now is really the best. I haven't seen any worthwhile competitors to the LCD2490WUXi from Eizo, in performance or price. Ditto for the LCD2690WUXi. In short, you shouldn't even bother with them unless the NECs somehow don't fit your needs.

The VAs from Eizo and LaCie have exactly the same gamma shift problems. They don't do anything to compensate for it, AFAIK. So, they would be below any IPS panel in my list. The IPS Eizos and LaCies would be at the top along with the NEC IPS panels unless they had some serious problem.

Thanks for your reply Xtknight. I appreciate your time and effort!

Unfortunately, it is not that simple. Believe it or not, but it appears that in Europe you can actually not buy a 24" S-IPS screen..., nor 22" and as stated before somewhere, the NEC 2490 is indeed not available in Europe, only for the USA market (again, no idea why...).

That leaves me (and others) with this dilemma:

1. Find the best available 24" VA screen in Europe for my budget (max 800 EUR):
   and this means unfortunately that we Europeans will have to overpay rather much compaired to non Europeans, as we need to do with software and lots of techno products.
   
2. Go for a smaller IPS screen in combination with a second screen for Adobe pallets etc.

Alright then, a smaller NEC IPS screen.. would that work?:
The NEC LCD2190UXi has not even a IPS panel but a SA-SFT panel, is only 21" and for that I would need to fork out close to 1.100 EURO (!!!)
For the NEC 2090UXi (IPS panel) I would still need to pay 750+ EURO. For that I would have a relatively small screen and I still have to pay an additional 160-200 euro for a smaller second screen.

So quite frankly, I kinda gave up on the whole 'good value for money' concept when it comes to electronics in Europe ;-)

Apart from that, even in a dual-screen setup, I don't want to go smaller than 22" really. Especially since the second screen is only used for (Adobe) software panels, so having a 19" + screen for that is really overkill.


22" - TN domain only it seems
And since good afordable 22" IPS screens don't exist, I have no choice but to go for the best VA panels available for my budget - but 22" VA panels are also pretty rare.... and thus we end where we began... at the best 24" VA panels (if I have overlooked something or there is a flaw in my thnking, please do correct me ofcourse!!!)


So back to my dillema: finding a screen for (web)design, photo editing, illustration and animation as well as playing DVDs and an occasional game :

1. The best VA screen for 800 EUR max:
   1. Eizo S2431 (i found a shop which sells it for EUR 750,-): i have found apart from the PRAD review also this CADalyst review and this PRAD review, one in PC Pro and this PC Advisor one and this one in the German CHIP magazine
   
   2. LaCie 324 (sells for EUR 860,-): really no reviews found at all
   
   3. NEC LCD2470WNX (sells for EUR 680,-). PRAD review and More reviews plus ZDNet
   
   4. Samsung 245T (sells for EUR 880,-). Anandtech review, PRAD review
   
   5. At a certain point I was eyeing the Dell Ultrasharp 2408WFP, however many user reviews (hardforum etc.) made clear that this first revision has some serious issues that Dell need to address, so i removed the Dell from my shortlist).

In conclusion, a 24" IPS screen in Europe seems out of the question (as are 22" IPS)... so what would you advice me as most suitable VA screen for (web)design, photo editing, illustration and animation as well as playing DVDs and an occasional game?

Thanks for your time!

 

[redlinez33]

Well is the LENOVO L220X available?

 

[Gast]

Well, given all the problems with the newer 30" panels and the large price jump, I've given up on my hopes for a 4k x 2k panel <42". I'm going to go ahead and bite the bullet and get the 30" Dell. Anyone have their hands on a 10% off coupon?

 

[Khilarii]

I'm going to buy a display primarily for gaming, secondarily for movies, and thirdly for text and internet. But gaming is what I'll do most. I looked at the recommendations on this thread for hardcore gaming and noticed that the 19" LG is considered very good. Would the 22-inch L227WTG-PF sold at Best Buy be equally good? I'm looking for something 22-inch or bigger. Thank you for your help.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/ol...oduct&id=1201913867539

 

[redlinez33]

That LG is a good monitor from what I have read about..... I am not sure why no 22" is recommended for hardcore gaming, thats the one thing lots of them are good at........

 

[SickBeast]

OP: Your main post is missing information on the Sharp AVS type panels. IMO they offer excellent color saturation, superb black level, excellent viewing angles, superb response time, and good uniformity (some minor problems on vertical pans over a large grey image).

I've very much enjoyed watching movies on my 46" Aquos. The dark scenes (any any scene with black in it) look quite stunning on it. Bright colors also look very good (they seem to 'pop' out of the screen).

My Dell 2405FPW has a VA panel, and my Aquos simply blows it away in every regard (aside from the minor issue I described above).

 

[Gast]

Originally posted by: Khilarii
I'm going to buy a display primarily for gaming, secondarily for movies, and thirdly for text and internet. But gaming is what I'll do most. I looked at the recommendations on this thread for hardcore gaming and noticed that the 19" LG is considered very good. Would the 22-inch L227WTG-PF sold at Best Buy be equally good? I'm looking for something 22-inch or bigger. Thank you for your help.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/ol...oduct&id=1201913867539

While I don't know about the L227WTG-PF specifically, unless you are a hardcore fps gamer (i.e. you register for tournaments where there's 60+ people and expect to win), I'd suggest you look at the multimedia section. Any of the monitors with <30ms average lag should be fine for everyone except professional gamers.

Granted, while even I can see/feel the difference of a faster panel in most fps games, it really doesn't begin to make a difference in your score until you've mastered a game, and by that time, it really only helps when you are facing other people who have mastered the game.

Originally posted by: redlinez33
That LG is a good monitor from what I have read about..... I am not sure why no 22" is recommended for hardcore gaming, thats the one thing lots of them are good at........

If you take a look at the hardcore gaming section, all (ok all but 1) of the input lag times are <11ms. Most of the 22" models break that by a wide margin.

@xtknight Maybe you could put a note stating the "extreme" nature of the sub 10ms input timing? Also, think you could stick a note somewhere about not ranking monitors like the Dell 3008fpw. Maybe a "Not Ranked due to" section. Maybe specific monitors for the high end, and some general notes for the lower end (i.e. Company X - Uses VA panels).

 

[redlinez33]

uhh actually, lots of the newer 22" have 0 input lag. Most I have seen have less than 10.

 

[eViLsTieFel]

Originally posted by: ericinho

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: ericinho
@Xtknight: in your list of screens for print or webdesign brands like Eizo and LaCie are missing... how would you rank those among the once listed now?

I probably wouldn't bother recommending any Eizo or LaCies that are VAs (gamma shift issues) because they are all very expensive. The IPS ones, maybe, but they haven't come out with new IPS ones in awhile as far as I can tell.

Generally you can just assume these are good anyway. Due to the lack of online reviews of LaCie and Eizo models, I can't validate it any better than you.

What is there right now is really the best. I haven't seen any worthwhile competitors to the LCD2490WUXi from Eizo, in performance or price. Ditto for the LCD2690WUXi. In short, you shouldn't even bother with them unless the NECs somehow don't fit your needs.

The VAs from Eizo and LaCie have exactly the same gamma shift problems. They don't do anything to compensate for it, AFAIK. So, they would be below any IPS panel in my list. The IPS Eizos and LaCies would be at the top along with the NEC IPS panels unless they had some serious problem.

So back to my dillema: finding a screen for (web)design, photo editing, illustration and animation as well as playing DVDs and an occasional game :

I own the Eizo S2431W and it DOES NOT have the gamma problem as exhibited with the Eizo S2231W (where the gamma shifts from the left side to the right side). That problem seems to be connected with wide gamut displays (so also the NEC 2690 WUXi). I can recommend this display to anyone looking to buy a high quality VA type screen.

 

[albovin]

I own the Eizo S2431W and it DOES NOT have the gamma problem as exhibited with the Eizo S2231W (where the gamma shifts from the left side to the right side). That problem seems to be connected with wide gamut displays (so also the NEC 2690 WUXi). I can recommend this display to anyone looking to buy a high quality VA type screen.

All PVA Eizos have gamma shift (better word for this problem is colorshift; colorshift=loss of details in darker tones from front view+color washout from angle view).
By design, *VA technology means colorshift.
There is no relationship between gamma/colorshift and color gamut.
The NEC 2690 is an IPS monitor, so it has no gamma/colorshift.

Color washout on the Eizo 2441 (left) vs NEC 2690 (right) from Hardforum.

 

[imported_crackbone]

Originally posted by: xtknight
You would probably be getting well-improved IPS tech, actually. H-IPS is high-aperture-ratio IPS, which provides a contrast improvement. Those H-IPSes you are talking about are also wide gamut, which means they will appear a lot more vibrant than your 2000FP. (The BenQ 24" of course, is VA, not IPS.) You may just want to commit blindly to an H-IPS panel rather than taking a risk with a VA you can't see locally either.

Thanks for the info, bumped me over the edge and I ordered today, hopefully I get the polarizer.

Another question, are there any recommendations for monitor arms/stands? I'd like to get a wall mount for this thing, and there are loads of them on ebay for next to nothing, while retailers seem to be wanting $100 and up for them.

 

[eViLsTieFel]

Originally posted by: albovin
All PVA Eizos have gamma shift (better word for this problem is colorshift; colorshift=loss of details in darker tones from front view+color washout from angle view).
By design, *VA technology means colorshift.
There is no relationship between gamma/colorshift and color gamut.
The NEC 2690 is an IPS monitor, so it has no gamma/colorshift.

Color washout on the Eizo 2441 (left) vs NEC 2690 (right) from Hardforum.

I guess we were talking about different problems then. What I mean is color shifting through different areas of the screen, as seen on this picture of the NEC2690 and the Eizo S2231W.
Such behaviour is typical for wide gammut displays and is a gamma problem aswell.

 

[pilafi]

That's typical VA color shift on the Eizo. I don't know about the NEC one, it seems different (must be, it's an IPS panel).

 

[themisfit610]

2407wfp

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: shinobiobi
i'm not sure 'dirty' is the right word to use for it, but if i could use a photo analogy, it seems like there's noise going on, on the screen when i'm doing anything but gaming.

could you recommend me a few more models?

Well I don't know what exact problem you're having. If it's a because it's a TN, there are no VA 22"s unless you want to pony up the money for the Lenovo L220X or Eizo S2231W (I don't recommend it).

The only glossy 22"s I know of that I'd ever recommend are HP w2207 and Samsung 2232GW (possibly).

Originally posted by: tw33ter
What's the best 28", more or less, monitor for gaming?

28"s are TNs.

The DoubleSight DS-263N is by far the best monitor in that range, so much that you shouldn't even consider anything else.