[Retired] The LCD Thread

[redlinez33]

maybe explain that the samsung panel is the only one to get, and explain how to find out what panel it has (you can find out on the exterior of the box, REV: S).... Otherwise its junk...

Thats my opinion atleast

 

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: muppet22
why is it that samsung and sony lcd tvs are so popular, given that they use pva panels? wouldn't ips (wider viewing angles) be an important thing for a tv to have? oh and on a side-note i get my ds-263n today!

Price. Plus, VA panels aren't nearly as annoying when they're used as TVs. In fact they might be preferred because of higher contrast. I have a VA TV and I rarely if ever notice shifting when I'm sitting on the couch watching HD.

i'd think though that viewing angles would be more important on a tv than a monitor..i mean i sit right in front of a monitor. with a tv people sit/stand at all sorts of angles

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: muppet22

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: muppet22
why is it that samsung and sony lcd tvs are so popular, given that they use pva panels? wouldn't ips (wider viewing angles) be an important thing for a tv to have? oh and on a side-note i get my ds-263n today!

Price. Plus, VA panels aren't nearly as annoying when they're used as TVs. In fact they might be preferred because of higher contrast. I have a VA TV and I rarely if ever notice shifting when I'm sitting on the couch watching HD.

i'd think though that viewing angles would be more important on a tv than a monitor..i mean i sit right in front of a monitor. with a tv people sit/stand at all sorts of angles

Thing is, considering the big distance you sit away from the TV, you're not moving that much. And when you did move, it would be harder to notice. With a monitor you're sitting right in front of it, at a high res screen and low dot pitch and you can see everything, even a little dead pixel, let alone color shift.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
maybe explain that the samsung panel is the only one to get, and explain how to find out what panel it has (you can find out on the exterior of the box, REV: S).... Otherwise its junk...

Thats my opinion atleast

I guess I will just remove it then, at least now that the L227WT is out.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: ericinho

Originally posted by: xtknight
There's always the LCD2690WUXi. It's a little more expensive but it's a 25.5" H-IPS. EUR 1000+ from what I'm seeing.

The only one I'd consider is the Eizo S2431W most likely (Eizos/NECs are less likely to have silly problems). At least you get a 10-bit LUT. Might want to consider a colorimeter as well (or whatever Eizo offers to calibrate).

If you can't find any reviews on the LaCie 324 I can't really recommend that either.

The other ones don't seem that attractive to me. The 245T is a possibility. It's wide gamut so that would be better for print matching. You'd have to give an ICC profile (at least one provided on CD) to Photoshop for it to emulate the sRGB space. As long as there are not any outstanding issues about the 245T that bother you, it might be the best idea.

The Eizo S2431W is sRGB natively from what I can tell. So it would by far be the best for editing a majority of sRGB material.

The Eizo is by default calibrated slightly better, so keep this in mind if you have no colorimeter.

Dear Xtknight,

Thanks for your reply. The 26" NEC is not really an option. Apart from being 200+ euro above my budget, I simply find the screen too big.

Although topping my shortlist, I do wonder if the Eizo S2431 is worth this kinda money... for being a non-S-IPS panel... or the difference in quality justifies its premium price.
The Samsung 245T is even more expensive than the Eizo, so doubtful that would be better value for money, apart from being WG.

I am seriously considering abandoning my quest for a 24" and focus on finding a good 21-22" widescreen S-IPS screen for a dual screen setup.
This I would couple with a decent 4:3 19" which would function as secondary 'Adobe Panels/Shortcut bar' screen.

» But good 21-22" S-IPS screens for (web)design, photo editing, illustration and animation as well as playing DVDs and an occasional game.... do these even exist?????

Thanks for your invaluable help!

Good 21" S-IPS screens? The LCD2190WUXi is really all I can think of but there may be a LaCie or two... (LaCie 320/321)

The 2190 isn't all that fast, though: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...sional-monitors_5.html

Plus I don't know about Europe but the prices on these displays (at least LaCies) in the US is almost as much or more than the 24" IPS (~$1000).

The Eizo sounds like the best choice for you right now.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: shinobiobi
welp, after having gone through a 2253bw and a 2207h, i cursed TN panels for life and decided to roll the dice on a dell 2007WFP. i guess luck was finally on my side, i got an s-ips panel, and i'm thoroughly enjoying it for all my applications.

for some reason there's no contrast control in the osd though, and the aspect ratio control is grayed out also. anyone know how to remedy this? i hate 'fit' mode on aspect ratio, and the nvidia aspect control isn't working for my warcraft 3.

I think contrast is disabled on DVI but may be available in the service menu? You'd have to check with the Dell forums or HardForums about this. I have no idea. Ditto with the aspect ratio thing. I had thought the Dell supported it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: nwilson
I'm new to the forum and looking for my first LCD display because my old CRT is dying.

I'm looking for an reasonably priced LCD for photo viewing and editing as well as general office use. I don't do gaming at all. I occasionally edit video. Reasonable color accuracy and a true 8-bit panel are important, but ultrafast response time is not. I have a Monaco Optix calibrator. I've spent a lot of time reading this topic, and it looks like NEC is a trustworthy brand.

I'm looking at a new NEC AccuSync Business Series ASLCD224WXM Widescreen LCD Monitor - 22" - 1680 x 1050 @ 75Hz - 5ms - 0.282mm - 900:1 - Black - ASLCD224WXM-BK, Viewing Angle 176° Horizontal / 176° Vertical, currently selling for $300 at buy.com with free shipping.

This is a new model released in Winter 2008, so I can't find any reviews or discussion of this display. I don't know what type panel it is, but the claimed viewing angle it looks like it isn't a TN type.

How can I find out the panel type and bit depth? Any good alternatives in this size and price range? Can anyone guide me on this?

The viewing angle is rated at CR>5 (contrast ratio > 5) only though. NEC has done this before and it's ended up being a TN panel. At this price point it's unfortunately very likely. But even regardless of this, reviews for this model are scarce if nonexistent.

Feel free to ask here about panel types. Otherwise I list general tips in the OP.

Bit depth is always 6-bit for TNs but this is rarely relevant for people anyway. It is viewing angles that are bothersome because most TNs dither decently well. (Sure, some do have problems with their dithering algorithms though.)

If you get a reputed "8-bit" panel (either 6-bit with really good dithering or true 8-bit) you won't have to worry about poor-quality dithering.

I can rule out the 22" size for you because most 22"s are TNs, not that great for photo editing.

The HP LP2065 (20.1") is almost unanimously S-IPS last I heard (there was a panel lottery a while ago where people received AMVA panels instead). Even if you receive an AMVA it's decent as well. You might give this a try.

If you're not that concerned about response time, the Samsung 971P and 940T are decent options, if you can find them.

How much are you looking to spend? It is actually difficult to find a photo editing (VA/IPS) monitor besides the ones listed above, for under $500.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: jae
would it be better to go with a monitor that has HDMI input rather than DVI-D in the long run? 22" will be used as computer monitor for general use/hi def movies/tv(standard def) then later on I will hook it up to PS3 and Xbox360 for games and bluray movies.

Actually, it makes absolutely no difference. HDMI can be converted directly to DVI-D and vice versa. They are interchangeable, compatible signals.

It will take some luck to get a 22" monitor to accept a signal from consoles though. I would check for reports of success before committing to a purchase.

btw, i have narrowed my decision down to the acer (dvi-d) and hanns*g (hdmi).. still doing research though.

Acer has a better reputation I'd say, than Hanns G (though the numerous good comments about Hanns on Newegg can make it seem otherwise I remain a little skeptical).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Denithor
Thinking about a new monitor, I mostly game and surf with my home system. Not in a hurry here so I want to make sure I get the right one picked out.

Currently have Samsung 204B (16x12) and it's good for gaming but hard on the eyes for text (too small, text doesn't scale well on many websites). Want to go widescreen this time around.

Considering the BenQ G2400W. Anyone here have that monitor and care to comment?

EDIT: Also, can anyone address how well/poorly this monitor performs at non-native resolution? For example, if I wanted to game at 1680x1050 would it look ok on the BenQ?

Well 10e provided more than I could about this display.

The G2400W is easily the best 24" TN choice right now, though. Fast, low lag, good color. It has all three scaling options (fill, 1:1, aspect) although I don't know how fill/aspect look personally.

No idea about the T241W. It's a TN, though, like the G2400W. It's unlikely the T241W will be any better.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: seymsag
Hello,

I am new to forum and lcd technology and I have some questions about a Lcd monitor I recently bought(Benq x2200w).

I am using this with my laptop through a dsub cable and ps3 through a hdmi cable.

First of all there is a lot of dithering when screen becomes gray or some light is shed on a black background (or in this test: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php).

When I am using the monior with my ps3 there is color corruption on objects which have intense lighting reflections on them(cars in gran turismo for example[some lightening reflections on cars look red, green or blue]), the same issue occured when the ninja theory logo, which had some lightening shed from logo on black background, was visible on screen at the beggining of heavenly sword, in this case, the lightening which supposed to be white looks green blue and red.I tested the monitor with Half Life 2 and, condemned on my laptop and didnt get that color corruption issue.

From what I read here dithering is commonplace among LCDs and done intentionally, I dont know what causes the color corruption however and want to know if there is anything I can do about that.

Thanks

The color corruption sounds like a problem with the cables or hookup. But it could be a bug in the adaptive color adjustment mechanisms if you have those enabled. I think BenQ calls this SensEye but the specific algorithm may be called something else cool-sounding probably in the OSD.

Dithering should not cause wide-scale color corruption like that. But it will cause static in gray and such.

 

[redlinez33]

btw I have my DS 263N (26" IPS monitor) and it has the polarizer.... Just as a confirmation. Best value on the market now, period. I paid $680.

 

[seymsag]

I googled a bit and found out that what I am experiencing is color banding.

To find out if this is caused by my lcd I downloaded and viewed these images on my laptop(with benq lcd connected to it of course):

http://home.freeuk.com/jackdod...anger_MBP_C2D_test.jpg

http://home.freeuk.com/jackdod...ammut_MBP_C2D_test.jpg

The image was perfect; then I installed those two images to my playstation which is con
nected through hdmi, image was still perfect.This makes me question if these images are really a good way to see if there is any banding, any other way if I can test if banding is caused by monitor?

 

[seymsag]

Originally posted by: xtknight

The color corruption sounds like a problem with the cables or hookup. But it could be a bug in the adaptive color adjustment mechanisms if you have those enabled. I think BenQ calls this SensEye but the specific algorithm may be called something else cool-sounding probably in the OSD.

Dithering should not cause wide-scale color corruption like that. But it will cause static in gray and such.

I disabled color adjustment techniques through osd.I also tested dvd movies and didnt notice any banding.

I can try with new hdmi cables but I want to make sure it is not caused by my monitor before I buy anything.

Thanks for the help.

 

[shinobiobi]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: shinobiobi
welp, after having gone through a 2253bw and a 2207h, i cursed TN panels for life and decided to roll the dice on a dell 2007WFP. i guess luck was finally on my side, i got an s-ips panel, and i'm thoroughly enjoying it for all my applications.

for some reason there's no contrast control in the osd though, and the aspect ratio control is grayed out also. anyone know how to remedy this? i hate 'fit' mode on aspect ratio, and the nvidia aspect control isn't working for my warcraft 3.

I think contrast is disabled on DVI but may be available in the service menu? You'd have to check with the Dell forums or HardForums about this. I have no idea. Ditto with the aspect ratio thing. I had thought the Dell supported it.

well i figured out that you had to be in the actual non-native mode to change it to 1:1, but the problem is, whenever you leave that setting by going into the native resolution either by quitting the game or minimizing, it goes back to stretch. the monitor will not remember the setting, and will be at stretch by default everytime. pretty annoying, but since war3 is the only non-ws supporting application i run, it's not that bad. besides this negative aspect, the 2007wfp is really great. i was shocked at how good the colors were right out of the box.

 

[ericinho]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: ericinho

Originally posted by: xtknight
There's always the LCD2690WUXi. It's a little more expensive but it's a 25.5" H-IPS. EUR 1000+ from what I'm seeing.

The only one I'd consider is the Eizo S2431W most likely (Eizos/NECs are less likely to have silly problems). At least you get a 10-bit LUT. Might want to consider a colorimeter as well (or whatever Eizo offers to calibrate).

If you can't find any reviews on the LaCie 324 I can't really recommend that either.

The other ones don't seem that attractive to me. The 245T is a possibility. It's wide gamut so that would be better for print matching. You'd have to give an ICC profile (at least one provided on CD) to Photoshop for it to emulate the sRGB space. As long as there are not any outstanding issues about the 245T that bother you, it might be the best idea.

The Eizo S2431W is sRGB natively from what I can tell. So it would by far be the best for editing a majority of sRGB material.

The Eizo is by default calibrated slightly better, so keep this in mind if you have no colorimeter.

Dear Xtknight,

Thanks for your reply. The 26" NEC is not really an option. Apart from being 200+ euro above my budget, I simply find the screen too big.

Although topping my shortlist, I do wonder if the Eizo S2431 is worth this kinda money... for being a non-S-IPS panel... or the difference in quality justifies its premium price.
The Samsung 245T is even more expensive than the Eizo, so doubtful that would be better value for money, apart from being WG.

I am seriously considering abandoning my quest for a 24" and focus on finding a good 21-22" widescreen S-IPS screen for a dual screen setup.
This I would couple with a decent 4:3 19" which would function as secondary 'Adobe Panels/Shortcut bar' screen.

» But good 21-22" S-IPS screens for (web)design, photo editing, illustration and animation as well as playing DVDs and an occasional game.... do these even exist?????

Thanks for your invaluable help!

Good 21" S-IPS screens? The LCD2190WUXi is really all I can think of but there may be a LaCie or two... (LaCie 320/321)

The 2190 isn't all that fast, though: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...sional-monitors_5.html

Plus I don't know about Europe but the prices on these displays (at least LaCies) in the US is almost as much or more than the 24" IPS (~$1000).

The Eizo sounds like the best choice for you right now.

Thanks!

Yeah, the 24" Eizo S2431 hasn't convinced me fully. Partly because I haven't figured out if it is worth forking out 'S-IPS cash' for a PVA screen, considering that:

A S-IPS is more suitable for professional design than a VA panel
- not because the heads-on IQ or color reproduction is lower, that is on par;
- but because on a VA, because of color/gamma/tint shift and because of smaller viewing angles ánd less detail in blacks (black crush, which i guess is also caused by the shift limitation of this panel) you never get a consistent image or color, since this changes with every head movement you make....

And since these are limitations of any VA screen (in some screens more visable than in others), in principle a VA screen will always be less suitable for color critical and imaging work.

Apart from that, I haven't figured out if it is more comfortable to work with one 24" or a dual screen setup with 21/22" screen + 19" panel.

Looking at possible 21/22" screens, I was checking out the 22" Eizo S2231 (PVA as well), but someone indicated at Prad.de that there were serious shifting issues (more than its 24" brother).

S-IPS wise there isn't much in the 21/22" category... and you are right... for the NEC 2190UX you fork out 900 EURO (!!!!) here in Holland, apart from the 20 sec response time (!).... In NEC PVA country there would be the NEC LCD2170NX... but again... you pay S-IPS prices for a PVA panel....

Difficult, this one....

 

[devilchrist]

I have the 24" LG flatron LCD and I love it. Only reason I chose this over the Samsung 245BW is because every review said it was not a TN panel.

I don't see it on your list though. It's s much better than the Samsung and Dell (I've had both)


It comes with DVI to HDMI cable.

GOOD:
Great colors,
Very fast, no input lag,
Very little ghosting.
8-bit panel (As far as i've researched)
Not TN

BAD:
not alot of connection options,
only 2 USB ports
RBG, HDMI, S-Cable
RGB connection just plain suck. Lot of flicker and dithering.

 

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: shinobiobi

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: shinobiobi
welp, after having gone through a 2253bw and a 2207h, i cursed TN panels for life and decided to roll the dice on a dell 2007WFP. i guess luck was finally on my side, i got an s-ips panel, and i'm thoroughly enjoying it for all my applications.

for some reason there's no contrast control in the osd though, and the aspect ratio control is grayed out also. anyone know how to remedy this? i hate 'fit' mode on aspect ratio, and the nvidia aspect control isn't working for my warcraft 3.

I think contrast is disabled on DVI but may be available in the service menu? You'd have to check with the Dell forums or HardForums about this. I have no idea. Ditto with the aspect ratio thing. I had thought the Dell supported it.

well i figured out that you had to be in the actual non-native mode to change it to 1:1, but the problem is, whenever you leave that setting by going into the native resolution either by quitting the game or minimizing, it goes back to stretch. the monitor will not remember the setting, and will be at stretch by default everytime. pretty annoying, but since war3 is the only non-ws supporting application i run, it's not that bad. besides this negative aspect, the 2007wfp is really great. i was shocked at how good the colors were right out of the box.

i had this same issue. it can be fixed with drivers for both ati and nvidia cards

 

[10e]

Cheers and thanks!

The T241W looks like a prettied/marketized version of the G2400W. Admittedly the G2400W won't win any beauty contests, but it's the panel that counts more often than not.

I haven't seen any information on whether the T uses a higher gamut TN panel or anything, but I vaguely remember brightness listed as the same, indicating it likely is the same AU Optronics panel (which is a good thing in comparison to most TNs).

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: Denithor
Wow, thanks for the quick & informative response!

And welcome to the forums!

I would definitely let the video card handle the resolution change. I will use a 9600GT with HDMI output, at least initially, I'll have to see how it handles my games at higher resolutions than I currently use. I can play at 16x12 just fine so I would imagine 1680x1050 would not be a problem, thus the secondary question above. However this card may not be adequate for 1920x1200 but I will see if I decide to get this monitor.

Now I just gotta come up with $400...

EDIT: After looking around further, I came across the BenQ T241W. It appears to be new, not seeing reviews of it out there. Anyone know anything about this model?

 

[shinobiobi]

Originally posted by: muppet22
i had this same issue. it can be fixed with drivers for both ati and nvidia cards

oh? can you share with me how? i tried to use my nvidia control panel's aspect control, but it never takes over my monitor's aspect control. i have a 8800gt oc on winxp pro with the most recent beta drivers.

Originally posted by: ericinho

S-IPS wise there isn't much in the 21/22" category... and you are right... for the NEC 2190UX you fork out 900 EURO (!!!!) here in Holland, apart from the 20 sec response time (!).... In NEC PVA country there would be the NEC LCD2170NX... but again... you pay S-IPS prices for a PVA panel...

you are right about this. for my recent lcd purchase, what i wanted an ips panel in the 22" market, but this was practically impossible to find, and i live in the US. you're probably going to either have to go 20" or 24" to find more options and cost effectiveness. 22" is just a TN haven right now for some reason.

 

[Deinonych]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
btw I have my DS 263N (26" IPS monitor) and it has the polarizer.... Just as a confirmation. Best value on the market now, period. I paid $680.

Where did you get yours? I'm thinking about picking one of these up - I'd love to get one with the polarizer.

 

[Hairydude]

Hello,

I am a new comer as you can see, I made this account to plead for your advice on which 24" monitor I should get. I wish to upgrade from my current 19" Dell monitor, to a 24" wide screen monitor. The main uses for the new monitor will be gaming, watching movies, and the usual web surfing. After researching the 24" market, i am puzzled and left in confusion.

I'm no expert in the technicalities of monitors. Is the TN Panel good enough? Does it display good, crisp colours? What are the disadvantages of having a TN Panel monitor? Is the Dell 24WFP really that bad for gaming? Is the BenQ G2400W best choice for me?

I've just came across the BenQ FP241W 24" monitor, what are your thoughts on this one? And finally, what would you recommend me to buy? my budget is around £400.
Thanks for any help in advance.

 

[muppet22]

hey 10e - this is erich from hardforum - do you have any thoughts on the benq V2400W? it's supposed to come out later this month and has similar specs to the G, but of course i don't know how well it will actually compare

shinobiobi - i have a 8800gt running on winxip pro also..with nvidia's 169 drivers i believe. if i remember correctly there are 4 radio buttons for aspect control (in the nvidia control panel)..and i used the 2nd from the top i think. i'll look at it when i get home.

before i got my 8800gt i used a x1950pro and it didn't have a scaling option in it's drivers (up until about a month ago) and warcraft 3 stretched :\

 

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: Hairydude
Hello,

I am a new comer as you can see, I made this account to plead for your advice on which 24" monitor I should get. I wish to upgrade from my current 19" Dell monitor, to a 24" wide screen monitor. The main uses for the new monitor will be gaming, watching movies, and the usual web surfing. After researching the 24" market, i am puzzled and left in confusion.

I'm no expert in the technicalities of monitors. Is the TN Panel good enough? Does it display good, crisp colours? What are the disadvantages of having a TN Panel monitor? Is the Dell 24WFP really that bad for gaming? Is the BenQ G2400W best choice for me?

I've just came across the BenQ FP241W 24" monitor, what are your thoughts on this one? And finally, what would you recommend me to buy? my budget is around £400.
Thanks for any help in advance.

g2400w is probably your best bet, in the budget

 

[Hairydude]

The g2400w is £250, my budget allows me to purchase the likes of the Dell 24 WFP, BenQ FP241W, and a few others.. However I'm puzzled and really don't know which monitor or make to purchase.

 

[shinobiobi]

Originally posted by: muppet22
hey 10e - this is erich from hardforum - do you have any thoughts on the benq V2400W? it's supposed to come out later this month and has similar specs to the G, but of course i don't know how well it will actually compare

shinobiobi - i have a 8800gt running on winxip pro also..with nvidia's 169 drivers i believe. if i remember correctly there are 4 radio buttons for aspect control (in the nvidia control panel)..and i used the 2nd from the top i think. i'll look at it when i get home.

before i got my 8800gt i used a x1950pro and it didn't have a scaling option in it's drivers (up until about a month ago) and warcraft 3 stretched :\

yeah i have it turned onto 'use nvidia scaling with fixed-aspect ratio', but it doesn't work when i open wc3. i have the latest beta drivers, 174, not 169.

Originally posted by: Hairydude
The g2400w is £250, my budget allows me to purchase the likes of the Dell 24 WFP, BenQ FP241W, and a few others.. However I'm puzzled and really don't know which monitor or make to purchase.

on the subject of the type of panels, the first post in this thread has a very nice summary of the pros and cons of each of the type of panels. you can then use that information to cross reference which type of panel the monitors you're choosing between use, by using one of the panel search sites listed at the end of the first post.