[Retired] The LCD Thread

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xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: Tasiin
Yes, that's me unfortunately.

Since I don't think any of the IPS screens I've tried will cut it due to various issues (grainy or overly reflective coating, flickering, etc.), I've been thinking I might try a more modern TN now that I'm not aiming to completely replace my CRT with it. Funnily enough, out of all of the IPS panels I've tried I think the NEC 20WMGX2 might've been the best, and that's saying something considering how much I hate glossy screens.

I really have no idea what to expect from a TN. I know they're generally disliked, but I'm not sure whether their shortcomings would be an issue for a display that will only be used for the desktop and maybe for some games where the low framerates and ghosting aren't too annoying. I'd really like to get one that can support at least 75Hz at the native resolution, but it seems to be very hard to find information about which models can do that. The only one that's confirmed to be able to do it (that I know of) is the Samsung 226BW, but that's a panel lottery with four different panels of varying quality. I think I'll pass.

I was somewhat interested in the L227WT after finding out it had nearly no input lag, but the fact that only the glossy version is available in the US and the possible lack of 75Hz have killed that for me. Have you heard anything about when Samsung's new models (the T220P and others) that were seen at CeBIT might be released?

I've heard absolutely nothing about them, unfortunately. Somehow I doubt Samsung will ever release a 22" S-PVA in the US, unless it's an expensive photo monitor. They have been all about TNs lately.

Yeah you can pretty much forget about true 75 Hz at native. My ViewSonic VP930b@1280x1024 did it, though. Most displays just drop frames (my LCD26 drops) or ghosting rises because there's no overdrive lookup table for that refresh rate (I guess this is uncommon but it happened w/ the Samsung 970P).

Originally posted by: cheap
I don't really have a choice at this point, I've been putting off switching to LCD for as long as I could. Of course if they had S-IPS panels that are just as fast as TNs I wouldn't mind paying more for better viewing angles. I've never used an LCD before so not sure how input lag feels but just quickly running through couple of single player levels I didn't notice any sluggish controls. Mouse and movement felt smooth and instantanious. Once in a while though my mouse started to freeze for couple of seconds but I think it's my trusty old MX510 going bad on me.

Ah I have one of those freezing MX510s behind me.

Ultimate combo though would be a 24" widescreen trinitron for games and then a good S-IPS for desktop/web and run them side by side. Pretty much the only place you can get such a trinitron is off ebay at this point and I don't want to take a chance and shell out $300 and get one that's washed out.

Tasiin: That's interesting, I will check that thread out but I'm sure like you said it's too late for this monitor, the tube itself is ruined. Back when Sony was about to discontinue tube monitors in 2000 something, I bought their 19" AHM 440 monitor I think for $400. It only had one year warranty and sure enough right after one year ran out it started to go fuzzy on me and get brighter. I used it like this for like another year until it got so bad I couldn't read text any more it was so fuzzy so I took it to a technician. He said the electron gun wasn't calibrated probably, it was too intense and overtime burned the screen out. He said if I took it to him right away he might've been able to save it but at that point the whole tube needed to be replaced. So I'm guessing same thing happened to this one too. It's very possible that firmware controls the gun and some bug in it ends up ruining the screens.

The phosphor coating could be burning out and no amount of electronics can fix that.
 

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
6,893
63
91
Did anyone find any other place to buy the LG227WTG in the States besides Best Buy? Every Best buy in the metro detroit region is sold out! Its getting a little frustrating.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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71
Originally posted by: DeathBUA
Did anyone find any other place to buy the LG227WTG in the States besides Best Buy? Every Best buy in the metro detroit region is sold out! Its getting a little frustrating.

I happen to live in the same area, but nope, I think only Best Buy carries this in the US. Seems to be an exclusive.
 

cheap

Senior member
Sep 30, 2002
399
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight

The phosphor coating could be burning out and no amount of electronics can fix that.

Yeah, that's what the tech told me. $400 bucks for one year 19" is ridiculous price to pay to use a Trinitron. You have to catch the problem early and get it fixed to save your monitor, but the thing is by the time you see the problem your screen is already a little burned out.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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71

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
6,893
63
91
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: DeathBUA
Did anyone find any other place to buy the LG227WTG in the States besides Best Buy? Every Best buy in the metro detroit region is sold out! Its getting a little frustrating.

I happen to live in the same area, but nope, I think only Best Buy carries this in the US. Seems to be an exclusive.

Well crap....I guess I can just order one from the website and wait the couple weeks for it to arrive.(but I'll probably just keep stalking the local area best buys until one pops up in store
 

Tasiin

Member
Oct 11, 2005
78
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0
Originally posted by: cheap
Tasiin: That's interesting, I will check that thread out but I'm sure like you said it's too late for this monitor, the tube itself is ruined. Back when Sony was about to discontinue tube monitors in 2000 something, I bought their 19" AHM 440 monitor I think for $400. It only had one year warranty and sure enough right after one year ran out it started to go fuzzy on me and get brighter. I used it like this for like another year until it got so bad I couldn't read text any more it was so fuzzy so I took it to a technician. He said the electron gun wasn't calibrated probably, it was too intense and overtime burned the screen out. He said if I took it to him right away he might've been able to save it but at that point the whole tube needed to be replaced. So I'm guessing same thing happened to this one too. It's very possible that firmware controls the gun and some bug in it ends up ruining the screens.

Actually, I doubt there's anything wrong with the tube. What you described sounds pretty much like a textbook example of the brightness bug to me, and the bug seems to be entirely firmware related. The fix detailed in that thread (reducing the G2 voltage through Windas) should fix it no matter how far it's progressed -- it's really just a question of how much time you want to spend building the cable and getting Windas to work, and how much the monitor's actually worth to you now.

I'm curious: did you only try setting 75Hz on your L227WTG through Windows, or have you tried forcing it through another utility like Powerstrip? I know that on my LP2065 I was unable to select 75Hz in Windows even though it "supported" it (it dropped frames, in actuality), but I could force it in Powerstrip. Going from the listed specs of the monitor that should be the maximum refresh rate it supports, but there's no way to know whether it'll skip frames or have other problems until you try it.
 

Chunkee

Lifer
Jul 28, 2002
10,391
1
81
Anyone use this monitor? http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824001238

I kindof like having the TV Tuner built in...I would get another 22 inch to put next to it. I am coming from Dell 2001FP Ultrasharps and want to go WS. Cannot decide on 22 or 24..i have an 8800gt ready to rock...i am lost on this thread...almost too much to choose from. I like to watch movies on occasion, but love clear text and good gaming.

Thanks
JC
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Chunkee
Anyone use this monitor? http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824001238

I kindof like having the TV Tuner built in...I would get another 22 inch to put next to it. I am coming from Dell 2001FP Ultrasharps and want to go WS. Cannot decide on 22 or 24..i have an 8800gt ready to rock...i am lost on this thread...almost too much to choose from. I like to watch movies on occasion, but love clear text and good gaming.

Thanks
JC

Sorry, I know nothing about that monitor. There are not many good ones that have TV tuners built in; in fact, I can't name one off the top of my head. A PCI TV Tuner solution may be more flexible, anyhow, so you may consider that along with a recommended LCD in the OP.
 

cheap

Senior member
Sep 30, 2002
399
0
0
Originally posted by: Tasiin

Actually, I doubt there's anything wrong with the tube. What you described sounds pretty much like a textbook example of the brightness bug to me, and the bug seems to be entirely firmware related. The fix detailed in that thread (reducing the G2 voltage through Windas) should fix it no matter how far it's progressed -- it's really just a question of how much time you want to spend building the cable and getting Windas to work, and how much the monitor's actually worth to you now.

I'm curious: did you only try setting 75Hz on your L227WTG through Windows, or have you tried forcing it through another utility like Powerstrip? I know that on my LP2065 I was unable to select 75Hz in Windows even though it "supported" it (it dropped frames, in actuality), but I could force it in Powerstrip. Going from the listed specs of the monitor that should be the maximum refresh rate it supports, but there's no way to know whether it'll skip frames or have other problems until you try it.

I only tried to force it through windows. I don't have powerstrip and I don't have time right now to download it and mess with it because I have to leave. Be back in 10 days or so.

 

infinitesymphony

Junior Member
Aug 6, 2006
20
0
0
Is there any point to refresh rates higher than 60 Hz with a LCD monitor? It seems like the slowness of the response time would swamp the frame rate increase...
 

Oppear

Junior Member
Apr 6, 2008
9
0
0
Just, wondering, is there any other decent 24" ISP panel besides nec's 2490wuxi, which is not for sale in Europe? So far S-PVA seams the only option. Lacie 324 or eizo 2431 come to mind.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: infinitesymphony
Is there any point to refresh rates higher than 60 Hz with a LCD monitor? It seems like the slowness of the response time would swamp the frame rate increase...

Most LCDs don't support >60 Hz anyway but the ones that do generally yield a beneficial effect in moving images. (Look up 120 Hz LCDs which just interpolate between two 60 Hz frames and drive the crystals twice as fast, reducing ghosting by half).

Originally posted by: Oppear
Just, wondering, is there any other decent 24" ISP panel besides nec's 2490wuxi, which is not for sale in Europe? So far S-PVA seams the only option. Lacie 324 or eizo 2431 come to mind.

The Hazro 24" is an S-IPS although I'm not sure in which parts of Europe it is available. TFTCentral has a review on it.

Originally posted by: Epix
What's the difference between the H-IPS and the S-IPS?

The H-IPS panel has a slightly higher contrast ratio (750:1 vs 700:1), I believe has IPS crystals lined horizontally and has a "white glow" problem on black instead of a purple shifting. A polarizer is available to prevent the white glow problem and is implemented on the NEC LCD2490WUXi/LCD2690WUXi and DoubleSight DS-263N.
 

ericinho

Member
Feb 20, 2008
30
0
0
Size matters

I am looking for a 19" (either 4:3 or widescreen) to function in portrait mode (so needs to be able to pivot and be height adjustable, and DVI would be nice as well) as secondairy screen next to a bigger primary screen.
Apart from using it as 'Adobe panel' screen and reference screen, I will probably also use it sometimes for dvd playing and some games.

So what I am looking for is a LCD (either TN or PVA) which has the most bang for the buck... so a good price/quality ratio.

Which screen could you advice me?
 

coreyb

Platinum Member
Aug 12, 2007
2,437
1
0
I bought the BenQ G2400W yesterday. Love the monitor! However, I downloaded a colour profile off a website for this monitor and I'm not too sure what to do with it! Can anyone help me get this profile going so I can get the most out of my new purchase?
 

Oppear

Junior Member
Apr 6, 2008
9
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Oppear
Just, wondering, is there any other decent 24" ISP panel besides nec's 2490wuxi, which is not for sale in Europe? So far S-PVA seams the only option. Lacie 324 or eizo 2431 come to mind.

The Hazro 24" is an S-IPS although I'm not sure in which parts of Europe it is available. TFTCentral has a review on it.

That one is not available here, and I don't prefer ordering from the net aswell. But, as mentioned above, the Apple 23 model is in stores. Price is the same as eizo 2431 here. The apple model is more about desing and style which isn't necessarily a good thing as far as PQ goes but would the ips panel outperform the s-pva?


Edit. I have read some reviews and the aren't particularly fond of the apple. One claiming the eizo(CE240W) being better at the same price and when operating on a PC, many properties would be locked. But atleast I get to look at the ips panel in stores, which is the only possible option to do so atm.
 

loki5667

Member
Dec 11, 2006
102
0
0
I currently have a Dell 2001FP and have decided that it's time to get a WS lcd. I was checking out the HP w2207 22" on TD since it is only 249 at the moment.
Reading thru some posts here some people say it's great, while other are saying that the bleeding is really bad. Is this just hit or miss or should I stay away?

Before I pull the trigger I wanted to get a few opinions or maybe some info on other models I should look into.

Thanks in advance
 

10e

Member
May 21, 2002
100
0
0
If the W2207 has a Samsung panel, bleeding should not be too bad. Most people on the other forums have had issues with AUO panels bleeding more than the Samsung panels, as well as color calibration being different.

The w2207H with the HDMI connector does not have a Samsung panel at all, so you will get AUO.

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: loki5667
I currently have a Dell 2001FP and have decided that it's time to get a WS lcd. I was checking out the HP w2207 22" on TD since it is only 249 at the moment.
Reading thru some posts here some people say it's great, while other are saying that the bleeding is really bad. Is this just hit or miss or should I stay away?

Before I pull the trigger I wanted to get a few opinions or maybe some info on other models I should look into.

Thanks in advance

 

10e

Member
May 21, 2002
100
0
0
Color profiles go into the following directory on your system:

c:\windows\system32\spool\drivers\color

Once you have copied the ICM file there you need to add it via the "Display" control panel under "advanced settings". The process is different between Vista and XP, but you need to "associate" it with your monitor.

The G2400W should be listed under "monitors" device manager item as the BenQ G2400W (Digital).

One thing that I've found using the Color Spyder2Express software is that calibration on this monitor is pretty good out of the box, and the new color profile will not change a lot. I wasn't even sure it was activated that it was pretty close.

Either that or I'm just color blind and need new glasses/contacts in my advanced years



Regards,

10e



Originally posted by: coreyb
I bought the BenQ G2400W yesterday. Love the monitor! However, I downloaded a colour profile off a website for this monitor and I'm not too sure what to do with it! Can anyone help me get this profile going so I can get the most out of my new purchase?

 

10e

Member
May 21, 2002
100
0
0
BTW all,

For those interested in the Samsung 2493HM vs. the BenQ G2400W, I can tell you right now, as I have the two sitting beside each other, the BenQ is far superior in my eyes. Here's a quick synopsis:

1) BenQ has better out-of-box colors. The Samsung has oversaturated reds (typical of wide gamut panels) that turn the dark greys to brown.
2) BenQ handles consoles over HDMI and VGA much better. Its only disadvantage is that it (the G2400W) will not go into power save mode over HDMI, where the Samsung will. The BenQ can do 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI with PCs and consoles, the Samsung cannot do this with consoles, and can only do it with PCs set at 1920x1200 resolution
3) The BenQ scales resolutions with less input lag. The Samsung is fast at 1920x1200, but at lower resolutions, because its scaler is doing more work, it's slowing down more. 1 frame slower 30% of the time at 1680x1050, 2 frames 30% of the time @ 1280x1024
4) The BenQ is much better with dark colors. Playing Condemned 2 on the 360 over VGA on the Samsung was difficult due to dark detail washout.
5) BenQ has very slightly better vertical viewing angles.

The Samsung is a good monitor, but as a PC + console monitor cannot still compare to the BenQ. The Samsung will be returned soon.

FYI

10e
 

10e

Member
May 21, 2002
100
0
0
From what I've read concerning the 215TW, the Westinghouse probably has almost as much input lag. I've read somewhere that the 215TW has about 45ms, and the Westy is around 35 to 50ms from my calculations.

WEIRDLY enough, connecting it, and the BenQ G2400W to my 8800GTS 512MB card using 174.74 drivers in Vista X64 yielded different input lag information depending on the ports. When the Westy was on port 1 it was 50ms slower than the BenQ. When I swapped them and put the BenQ on port 1 the difference never went past 28ms (which is weird in itself not being exactly 1 or 2 frames of 16 or 31ms)

In Windows XP the difference was always 31ms except for 5% of the shots at 46ms.

When I take photos I usually put the camera in no-flash and rapid fire mode and take 50 shots in succession and categorize each based on frames difference.

The BenQ is basically lag less, even at scaled resolutions so it's a great benchmark monitor for this cause. The reason for this, is the scaler on the G2400W JUST SCALES, and doesn't try to smooth, or image process, resulting in no additional delays.

My one extremely favorable impression of the L2410NM is that when calibrated, the colors seem very good, and the dark details "spring to life" as opposed to the other monitors I've calibrated using the (crappy) Spyder2Express. The other three monitors I've calibrated always experienced dark detail crush using this method, and that includes TN, S-IPS, and MVA.

Alas, I have just injured my Westinghouse and have to get it repaired via Worst Buy's Product rippoff program. Partially my fault for trying to snap the stand cover back onto it when it was on. Now all I get is a blank screen

Sorry about the late reply.

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: Ardan
Originally posted by: xtknight

It's possible the 215TW's anti-glare coating is aggressive. The glossy panel is clear as a whistle. ( clean as a whistle? whatever, you know what I mean )

Now that I think of it, I noticed the Westinghouse L2410NM in your list and on newegg. I think I could comfortably afford that price. I have yet to really examine that model, however. Do you guys know if it has a lot of input lag? I know there's some input lag on this 215TW, and it is acceptable to me (doesn't impact my game at all), so I wonder if it is comparable to or better than mine. I don't think I'll consider the H-IPS, now. I agree that it wouldn't be worth it for me to purchase that. I suppose I could go the safe route and purchase the L227WTG, see if it is perfect for me first, and then return it to BB if it isn't, unless that Westinghouse model is perfect enough to just buy it off of Newegg.

It probably has less input lag than your 215TW if anything. I don't really know that much about the Westinghouse model myself but I assume 10e can tell you anything you want to know.

I went searching your thread here and found some posts where he was talking about it, and I decided that its best to go with the L227WTG at Best Buy. That Westinghouse looks like it could fit the bill, but I'm more sure of the LG because I have seen it in person. Plus, it would be easier to return that one if I didn't like it than if I bought the Westinghouse on Newegg and didn't like it . Plus, I'll be doing much more gaming on it than movie watching, so it would make sense to go with the LG. Some told me that it is very crisp, clear with text and I probably read text more than all of those combined. I suppose I better go buy it now, though, because a massive winter storm is bearing down on me :Q. If the counties in the southwest corner of the state have blizzard warnings out now, well I better not waste time going to Best Buy! Thanks for the assistance.

 
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