[Retired] The LCD Thread

[imported_ST]

Originally posted by: ST

Originally posted by: xtknight


HOME THEATER PC

Westinghouse LVM-37W3
Sceptre X37SV-Naga

47 total: 29.8% TN, 29.8% IPS, 40.4% VA

As one of the first ones to utilize the Westy's and Sceptres here, I would recommend you include my present 1080p HTPC LCD nowadays: Westy 47" LCM (or even the newer TX models with built in tuners).....easily better picture then my previous 37" Sceptres / Westys.

Just want to mention something that i find particular interesting happening in today's consumer market: the marriage of everyday TV's and computers. A couple of days ago I bought my new 52" Samsung LN52A750 LCD HDTV. Having been an ardent HTPC user for years, I was skeptical of the support from the mainstream brands , even with today's newer panels that feature 10 bit display, low 4ms response time, 120 Hz refresh rates, and most importantly Frame Interpolation Engines (FIE)! For those unfamiliar with this new FIE technology, the sets have an internal processor to add additional (interpolated) frames during the reconstruction from 60Hz input to 120 Hz input making fast movement very smooth and fluid, 3D or Soap Opera-sih like. On high definition content, especially CGI based films, it looks amazing! Anyhow, it used to be a hit or miss affair connecting a computer to your average home TV even with the big brands, but now all major players support PC connection natively letting you even bypass most of the internal scalers/electronics if you so wish. It's been a long time coming since about 5 years ago when i first purchased my no-name brand eccentric Sceptre 37" to now a mainstream TV set for PC usage. You really need to see these sets to believe the technology advancement these days! P.S. Here's my new "LCD" : http://i59.photobucket.com/alb.../Computer/IMG_0164.jpg .

 

[imported_ST]

Originally posted by: 10e
That's a great thread Xceler8

I took a good look, and came up with the following:

1) Single link DVI/HDMI don't go beyond 1080p at 60hz. Not enough bandwidth. No such thing as dual-link HDMI either, even if there was, these TVs don't use it
2) The only time these screens can truly use 120hz is through frame interpolation.

Frame interpolation will cause a lot of input lag. Input lag is bad for PC gaming. It takes frames 1 and 2, looks at the motion, creates an intermediate frame, and then displays the three frames in order. That by itself will add two frames of lag above and beyond processing time. Expect 4 frames/66ms if you are lucky with 120hz on. You will end up turning it off for PC use. You'll be playing mouse cursor time warp.

If you were hoping to spend the $2500.00 and get the equivalent 120hz refresh rate of your old CRT you will be disappointed. You can't set the vid card at 120hz and 1920x1080. The TV will say "out of range", and that's assuming you could actually do it in the video card control panel.

I would look at the 530U Regza displays. They have a low input lag/game mode that gets them down to 2 frames/33ms. Very good for a TV. I'm not a huge Toshiba fan, but I give them props for actually giving a number. Maybe they are listening to the consumer.

FYI - Most newer panels (like my Sammy 52" 750) has a "Game Mode" where the internal video post processing engine is essentially disabled for almost no lag. However, you lost such options as the Frame Interpolation Engine and other Settings. However, the panel itself will still operate at 120Hz refresh, albeit the input is at 60Hz.....Just look in the 650 Owners thread on AVS and you can see that someone actually timed the input lag. Also, 24p sources can also do 120Hz via an internal 5:5 pulldown, but whether you can discern the differences is still debatle. PS. I would touch the Toshiba set, Samsung sets are far superior in contrast, blacks, and color reproduction, then again maybe i'm a little biased right now.

 

[10e]

I would agree the Samsungs look very good. I've read a lot of positive feedback on AVS for the newer models. It's good to see many manufacturers coming with no overscan/1:1 pixel mapping capabilities and low input lag modes. It's about time actually.

I generally recommend people buy Samsung over Sony considering they are the same panels usually (s-LCD) and different pricing. Opinions vary, and that's just mine.

The bottom line is the panel could have 240hz or 480hz refresh rate. If the signal is 60hz, it visibly looks like 60hz unless the internal motion interpolation is turned on and adds frames.

I have used an LG 37LB5D as a monitor with great success, with the only issue being the 3 to 5 frames of input lag. It was a bit big at 37" and in my office, but because it's an S-IPS screen, viewing angles were always spectacular.

Have you tried using the 120hz mode with your PC? How were the results?

Enjoy the "Naughty By Nature"

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: ST

Originally posted by: 10e
That's a great thread Xceler8

I took a good look, and came up with the following:

1) Single link DVI/HDMI don't go beyond 1080p at 60hz. Not enough bandwidth. No such thing as dual-link HDMI either, even if there was, these TVs don't use it
2) The only time these screens can truly use 120hz is through frame interpolation.

Frame interpolation will cause a lot of input lag. Input lag is bad for PC gaming. It takes frames 1 and 2, looks at the motion, creates an intermediate frame, and then displays the three frames in order. That by itself will add two frames of lag above and beyond processing time. Expect 4 frames/66ms if you are lucky with 120hz on. You will end up turning it off for PC use. You'll be playing mouse cursor time warp.

If you were hoping to spend the $2500.00 and get the equivalent 120hz refresh rate of your old CRT you will be disappointed. You can't set the vid card at 120hz and 1920x1080. The TV will say "out of range", and that's assuming you could actually do it in the video card control panel.

I would look at the 530U Regza displays. They have a low input lag/game mode that gets them down to 2 frames/33ms. Very good for a TV. I'm not a huge Toshiba fan, but I give them props for actually giving a number. Maybe they are listening to the consumer.

FYI - Most newer panels (like my Sammy 52" 750) has a "Game Mode" where the internal video post processing engine is essentially disabled for almost no lag. However, you lost such options as the Frame Interpolation Engine and other Settings. However, the panel itself will still operate at 120Hz refresh, albeit the input is at 60Hz.....Just look in the 650 Owners thread on AVS and you can see that someone actually timed the input lag. Also, 24p sources can also do 120Hz via an internal 5:5 pulldown, but whether you can discern the differences is still debatle. PS. I would touch the Toshiba set, Samsung sets are far superior in contrast, blacks, and color reproduction, then again maybe i'm a little biased right now.

 

[xxceler8]

Yesteryday I auditioned the Samsung 650, it was sitting right next to the Toshiba xf550, and I must say the picture quality looked noticably cripser. I'm guessing I can get 120hz refresh rate in PC mode if I turn down the resolution a bit..

Now I have to go read the 6000 post thread on the 650..

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Originally posted by: Nephi

Welcome to Anandtech

I bought the NEC 2690 because it was only ~$100 more than the 24". I understand your concern over wide gamut. It's up to you to decide what is more important...

Widegamut is nice for photowork -- as long as you embed a color profile in the pic -- and the target audience is using color profile aware applications.
For web browsing, I'm using safari which takes care of the oversaturation for the most part.

The nice thing about these NEC displays is the hardware calibration. Using spectraview + i1 Display is a great experience. Within minutes your display is working @ your target level. For me that is 140 brightness, D65, sRGB gamma.

 

[spooksmcgee2]

My Dell Ultrasharp 22" 2005FPW is about to die. I want to get something bigger (at least 24", preferably 26-27 if I can afford it), but I don't want to spend $1000. I won't be gaming, just watching TV and videos on it. It doesn't have to have the sharpest resolution or anything, but it absolutely has to be able to swivel 90 degrees so I can read magazines and things on it. If I get the Dell E248 24" monitor, can I use the stand that came with my 2005 with it so I can have it swivel 90 degrees? And are there other monitors beside Dell that swivel 90 degrees or that I can use my stand with? My budget is $400 - $600. Thanks a lot for the help.

 

[10e]

The NEC with the calibration usually is listed as LCD2690WUXI-BKSV or LCD2690WUXI-SV.

Here are links on www.necdisplay.com

http://www.necdisplay.com/Prod...4177-b12e-5bde0b8eeaae


http://www.necdisplay.com/Prod...4f52-9ac3-37506ddc9775

You have the ability to calibrate either of these to different gamma curves. I, like Gerrson am using the D65, 140cdm/2 target, and sRGB gamma on my LCD2690. There is an sRGB preset for the 2690, but it is average at best.

You can calibrate to sRGB, L*, SMPTE-C, or a custom curve.

Very useful.

Same up here in Canada, the 2690 and 2490 are only about $100.00 difference.

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: Nephi
This thread rocks! Kudos to all involved.

I am looking for specific recommendations as I need a new monitor and simply don't have the time to sift through dozen of reviews and explore every technical advantage and limitation. That said I have read several reviews and the primer in the first post.

I am looking for the following:

Budget: $600-$1200

Size: 24 - 27 inch

Panel Tech: Any

Use: A mix of 70% office apps, web design, and digital photography and 30% gaming.

Main Applications: Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Internet Explorer, Games, Photoshop, MS Office 2003.

Top Choices: Dell 2408WFP, Doublesight DS-263N, NEC 2490WUXi, NEC LCD2690WUXi

----------------------------------

I am concerned about the Wide Gamut issue as I do a lot of web work, gaming, and digital photography and I don't like the idea of having to switch settings every time I change apps. Price aside are the NEC monitors higher quality then the Dell and Doublesight? My concerns with the NEC monitors are the fact that they are now over a year old and there may be newer and better alternatives. Also, I am concerned that the 2490 may be outdated as the future seems to be wide gamut. The Dell seems like a top pick but seems to suffer from lag. Anandtech seemed to think the colors and overall accuracy were about as good as one can get w/out spending big bucks. Is the DoubleSight the one to pick? Half the price, great response, and close to the NEC in image quality?

If you were me what one would you buy? I'm looking for and encourage specific recommendations. My old monitor is toast so I need to pull the trigger on a new one now.

Thanks in advance!

P.S. What is the cost of the NEC monitors WITH the included calibration unit? I could not find a link, model number, and/or pricing.

 

[Chunkee]

Amazon has the doublesight in stock .... high dollar though 799.00 with PRIME available.

JEEBERS

 

[imported_ST]

Originally posted by: 10e
The bottom line is the panel could have 240hz or 480hz refresh rate. If the signal is 60hz, it visibly looks like 60hz unless the internal motion interpolation is turned on and adds frames.

I have used an LG 37LB5D as a monitor with great success, with the only issue being the 3 to 5 frames of input lag. It was a bit big at 37" and in my office, but because it's an S-IPS screen, viewing angles were always spectacular.

Have you tried using the 120hz mode with your PC? How were the results?

Enjoy the "Naughty By Nature"

LOL - Yes, oldie but goodie i dug up to test out my htpc at the time!

Well the panel is always in 120Hz mode, but the AMP engine (aka frame interpolation) works beautifully, especially with HD sourced materials such as Blu Ray. Very natural, and gives the movie a whole new look. 240Hz mode is on the horizon samplgin around 2010, but you will still get the same panel lags due to the "hold time" nature of LCDs. The only way around this is to utilize more advanced motion frame interpolation engines, but thats going to take a lot of raw processor ability...

 

[jon754]

Originally posted by: jon754
i'm looking for a gaming monitor for under 300 dollars. how does the lg l227wtg compare to the hp w2207? i saw the l227wtg at best buy and i thought the screen looked oversaturated and unnatural.

anyone? how do these monitors look in 4:3 mode with lower resolutions like 1024x768?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eriwik
I would like some quick advice, I'm looking at buying a new display and have been eyeing the Dell 2408WFP but saw today that they are selling the 2707WFP for only about ?38 more. I'm using my computer mostly for office work and watching movies and only rarely play games.

Is it worth paying ?38 more for the 2707WFP?

Well for only that much more, I say sure. The bigger size would be nice.

Originally posted by: zod96
Is their anyway to use an icm profile without having to install that dot net crap?

You don't have to use the Windows color software but everybody should have .NET runtime anyway. It will be used much more commonly in the future.

You can still use xcalib to apply a profile.

Originally posted by: Rocketlucco
I just received my BenQ 2400W and it is great, but I am having a major problem with my Spyder2Pro. I used it all the time on my last monitor, but now it won't work.

I upgraded my software to Spyderpro 2.3.5 from an older version (I don't remember which) a while ago, but haven't tried it since. When I first boot up the Spyder program I get I get "Sorry but an error occurred" Error 6 (SpyderUSB.cpp 175). However I am able to continue on with the calibration.

I go through all the steps of the calibration, but when it is time to place the colormeter on I get the message "Your sensor does not support the calibration of this type of display", and the calibration finishes. This program worked fine on my all monitor, and I have no idea what is wrong now.

Anyone know what could be causing this?

Thanks

That's something you're going to have to take up with Spyder support. I can not support their software. Sorry.

Off and on I have little glitches with the Eye One Display 2 as well, where the program just quits out on me randomly. I never did find out why.

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky
Hey XTKnight; great thread. Looks like you might need to initiate a new one!

I wanted your advice on Dell 24" LCDs. I'm seriously looking at getting the UltraSharp 2408WFP but was wondering if I might get good results from getting their TN panel, considering I'm not a big-time gamer and plan to use the display mostly for Blu-Ray movies on my PC. I don't mind spending the extra money; I'm jsut wondering if the extra money buys me that much more performance and quality for the application I'm doing. Viewing angles may be an issue for me in the particular setup I have. Is the higher-end Dell 24" a PVA/MVA panel? For the price, it can't be a TN.

Thanks in advance for your help.

I'm hoping this thread will last a little longer but I'll have to create a new one if it gets too slow.

Yes I believe the 2408WFP would certainly be worth it for movies. For one, the TN's viewing angles wouldn't be too pleasing. TN panels are mainly geared toward gamers anyway because they are the cheaper, fast panels. Not sure what else to say really but I think the VA panel would suit you better.

Originally posted by: BF04
I have been looking at the Dell UltraSharp 3007WFP-HC 30-inch WideScreen. It is currently on sale for $1199. I have read most of the info here but cannot get a good answer. How does gaming on this LCD do? I am not talking hardcore FPS. I do play FPS but mainly as cannon fodder . 90% of my gaming is MMRPG, currently WoW. I am using a Dell 20in monitor with max settings. I will be going to Warhammer when/ever if comes out. Basicially I want high resolution, settings. However my eyes are not perfect and I have yet to see ghosting or artifact problems on any games on the 20in LCD, so minor stuff should not be a problem. I am currently using an 8800GTS 320meg card which I can upgrade later if needed.

Just looking for opinions or thoughts on 30in LCD for gaming. I am also looking at the Apple 30in but have not found alot of info on it.

thanks

It should be just as fast as your Dell 20", but bigger. I am very confident in this answer. The 30" may even have less input lag, as it is stated at just two frames or less. And its overdrive will deliver a fast response time. Colors will be more saturated on the HC as well.

The Apple LCDs don't interface that well with PCs; AFAIK, some of the controls are missing. Actually, this is also true for a lot of 30" LCDs since the scalers and DSPs required to give controls are expensive. If you were going to consider something else it would probably be the HP LP3065, but the 3007WFP-HC is cheaper and just as good or better.

 

[jeff21]

Just received & hooked up my new DS-263n.

No dead pixels! Hooray!!

The picture is worlds better than the Viewsonic LCD1970gx 19" I was borrowing.

It doesn't seem to like soft rebooting through boot camp from Mac to Pc or v-versa. Don't know why. But not a biggy.

Very bright, maybe too bright. Quickly adopted ToastyX "Calibrated.icc" settings (dialed them in manually), but found it still too bright and lowered brightness to O%. Will check out his alternate low brightness settings 'n see what I think. Thank you ToastyX for your help.

And thank you xknight for this terrific thread. Believe me, I've scoured the web for display info and you have compiled the clearest and most complete and most sensible collection of information out there.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Nephi
This thread rocks! Kudos to all involved.

I am looking for specific recommendations as I need a new monitor and simply don't have the time to sift through dozen of reviews and explore every technical advantage and limitation. That said I have read several reviews and the primer in the first post.

I am looking for the following:

Budget: $600-$1200

Size: 24 - 27 inch

Panel Tech: Any

Use: A mix of 70% office apps, web design, and digital photography and 30% gaming.

Main Applications: Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Internet Explorer, Games, Photoshop, MS Office 2003.

Top Choices: Dell 2408WFP, Doublesight DS-263N, NEC 2490WUXi, NEC LCD2690WUXi

----------------------------------

I am concerned about the Wide Gamut issue as I do a lot of web work, gaming, and digital photography and I don't like the idea of having to switch settings every time I change apps. Price aside are the NEC monitors higher quality then the Dell and Doublesight?

Considering your uses, I already eliminated 3/4 of your choices based on the wide gamut issue. The LCD2490WUXi remains.

My concerns with the NEC monitors are the fact that they are now over a year old and there may be newer and better alternatives.

That's not really an issue. They use the same new panel technology, and are still better than some new ones out today.

Also, I am concerned that the 2490 may be outdated as the future seems to be wide gamut. The Dell seems like a top pick but seems to suffer from lag. Anandtech seemed to think the colors and overall accuracy were about as good as one can get w/out spending big bucks. Is the DoubleSight the one to pick? Half the price, great response, and close to the NEC in image quality?

BeHardware's 2408WFP samples had terrible default colors, so apparently it depends on your locale.

If you were to go wide gamut, I would have said the DoubleSight is easily the best deal.

If you were me what one would you buy? I'm looking for and encourage specific recommendations. My old monitor is toast so I need to pull the trigger on a new one now.

Thanks in advance!

P.S. What is the cost of the NEC monitors WITH the included calibration unit? I could not find a link, model number, and/or pricing.

I would get the LCD2490WUXi if I were you and knew what I did now. WG can be frustrating to deal with honestly if you're just doing a lot of standard work. If you watch any movies or games I would definitely recommend WG, but otherwise it's a mixed blessing or bad if you do sRGB content work.

Edit: those model numbers end in -SV.

LCD2490WUXi-BK-SV: http://www.google.com/products...ts&q=lcd2490wuxi-bk-sv

Somehow they're getting harder to find but the SV Kit is orderable separately.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: jon754
i'm looking for a gaming monitor for under 300 dollars. how does the lg l227wtg compare to the hp w2207? i saw the l227wtg at best buy and i thought the screen looked oversaturated and unnatural.

The w2207 is standard gamut but not as good screen quality wise. I would take a look at the ASUS VW222u (standard gamut) if I were you.

 

[faxon]

hi guys new poster here! been reading anandtech for 5 years now and i figured i might as well start using the forums. found this thread on google when i was looking for solid information on the LCD that i am thinking of getting in relation to others. choice bellow

30": Samsung SyncMaster 305T, 2560x1600 (16:10)

* Panel: WG S-PVA (Samsung LTM300M1); true 8-bit, 16.7M colors
* Image Delay (rt+lag): 22 - 29.3 - 33
* Specifications: Samsung SyncMaster 305T
* HDCP Compliant: No
* More Info: prad.de
* Price: ~$1,300 USD

NOW, this monitor DOES NOT support HDCP currently. however, i am planning on using it for both HD multimedia (including blu-ray) and playing age of conan. does anybody happen to have information on if and when this monitor WILL support HDCP, or if there is another model that uses the same panel. my budget is pre-college low income but i REALLY want a 30 inch panel, since it can double as a TV for me, especially since i use my computer for everything, and i dont want a TN because they only support (2^6)^3 color. my eyes can really tell a difference between the syncmaster 24 inch TN panel that my buddy has, and the 24 inch IPS panel my dad has at his office (idk the model), but IPS is way to expensive in a 30 inch, being $600 more minimum on average than an S-PVA panel. sure they look great, but just having 8 bit color is enough for me. also, for those who DO game with one of these panels (30 inch S-PVA), how is the monitor's response lag compared to gaming with say a 30 inch IPS? i know the S-PVA has the worst buffer lag of all the panel types and i was wondering if it is really THAT big of an issue. i dont play much FPS before you ask, but i do sometimes, and when i do i always like to have any edge i can get.

thanks in advance! i will check back in a few days for a reply, currently rather busy studying for the CompTIA A+ exam lol

 

[pwnerx]

I need opinions for this monitor Acer P Series P241WBD 24? http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm...m/ccd/productDetail.do

Usage for this monitor will be 1/3 text work, 1/3 movie watching, and 1/3 gaming. What do you guys think of this monitor and is it worth it for this price?

 

[jon754]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: jon754
i'm looking for a gaming monitor for under 300 dollars. how does the lg l227wtg compare to the hp w2207? i saw the l227wtg at best buy and i thought the screen looked oversaturated and unnatural.

The w2207 is standard gamut but not as good screen quality wise. I would take a look at the ASUS VW222u (standard gamut) if I were you.

i don't think they carry asus monitors at best buy or circuit city? i'd prefer to buy something locally so i can return it easily if i don't like it. this is going to be my first lcd monitor. i think i'll go to best buy and circuit city tomorrow to look over some monitors...any other monitors i should look at? i was going to buy one of those refurbed 20" necs but after seeing all the problems people are having i think i'll pass.

 

[10e]

Unfortunately the highest you can set this to via video card will be 75hz at either 1280x768 or 1280x1024, or you won't even get an image on the TV.

Either way, without interpolation you will not get true 120hz from this TV or any other regardless of panel refresh.

My advice is set it to 120hz/demo/interpolation mode, set your PC at 60hz and see if input lag is excessive. A laptop with a DVI to HDMI or VGA cable should suffice if you want to try and test it in-store. If the cursor on the screen trails your mouse movements, that's input lag.

As ST has said, the panel always refreshes at 120hz, but if the input is 60hz, without interpolation, it will be only visibly display what will look like 60 updates/frames per second.

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: xxceler8
Yesteryday I auditioned the Samsung 650, it was sitting right next to the Toshiba xf550, and I must say the picture quality looked noticably cripser. I'm guessing I can get 120hz refresh rate in PC mode if I turn down the resolution a bit..

Now I have to go read the 6000 post thread on the 650..

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: spooksmcgee2
My Dell Ultrasharp 22" 2005FPW is about to die. I want to get something bigger (at least 24", preferably 26-27 if I can afford it), but I don't want to spend $1000. I won't be gaming, just watching TV and videos on it. It doesn't have to have the sharpest resolution or anything, but it absolutely has to be able to swivel 90 degrees so I can read magazines and things on it. If I get the Dell E248 24" monitor, can I use the stand that came with my 2005 with it so I can have it swivel 90 degrees? And are there other monitors beside Dell that swivel 90 degrees or that I can use my stand with? My budget is $400 - $600. Thanks a lot for the help.

I have no idea if you can use the same stand, sorry.

You might stretch your budget and try the DS-263N: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824185007

Otherwise you'll be dropping down to the Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP, most likely which is a lower quality panel. I think it's worth it to get the DS-263N, ~$80 extra. Not sure if you can rotate w/ the DS-263N though.

 

[jeff21]

Hiya,

There's no swiveling with the DS-263n.

 

[10e]

I highly doubt it. The Dell 2005FPW uses a "four clip" mechanism that is probably not compatible with the newer monitors. I wouldn't base a monitor decision on that and there are a number of cheaper and better alternatives to the E248WFP

The only stands from other monitors you can use are HPs because they actually use a VESA mount for the older monitors like the LP2335 and business monitors.

In that regard, Ergotron has some pretty good stands you can get. I use the Ergotron 45-185-194 Neo-Flex arm to mount my BenQ G2400W to my desk and it works well, and it will let you pivot upside down if you want.

There is also the Ergotron LX which is good for monitors under 16 lbs that swivels.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/ol...&cp=1&id=1155848385104

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: spooksmcgee2
My Dell Ultrasharp 22" 2005FPW is about to die. I want to get something bigger (at least 24", preferably 26-27 if I can afford it), but I don't want to spend $1000. I won't be gaming, just watching TV and videos on it. It doesn't have to have the sharpest resolution or anything, but it absolutely has to be able to swivel 90 degrees so I can read magazines and things on it. If I get the Dell E248 24" monitor, can I use the stand that came with my 2005 with it so I can have it swivel 90 degrees? And are there other monitors beside Dell that swivel 90 degrees or that I can use my stand with? My budget is $400 - $600. Thanks a lot for the help.

 

[jinsung0629]

Hi everyone! My name is Jin and I just joined AnandTech's Forum because I had to participate in The LCD Thread. This is a great resource and I wanted to learn as well as help. I've been involved in the displays industry for a little over 7 years now. I've had the pleasure of working for LG Display (LCD manufacturer) and DisplaySearch (a market research firm). I look forward to having great conversations with all of you about LCDs!

@pwnerx
Acer's P241WBD is a great value 24" LCD monitor. It has a decent contrast ratio, a 1920 x 1200 pixel format, is bright enough (400 cd/m2) and the response time is super fast (2ms). Since you will be using the P241WBD for text, games and video, I would like to share my concerns. The concern comes from using LCD monitors to view video.

The main challenge for LCD monitors when displaying video is the lack of technologies to reduce motion blur. LCD TVs have been incorporating many technologies (120Hz, Black Frame Insertion, Motion Interpolation, OCB, Backlight Scanning, etc.) to reduce motion blur. Unfortunately most LCD monitors don't have these technologies and when watching video will not be able to adequately reduce motion blur. So 1/3 of the time you might not be so satisfied with an otherwise great monitor.

Also bear in mind that Acer's P241WBD uses a TN LCD panel. You can tell by the limited viewing angle of just 160/160. If you need high color fidelity at wide viewing angles, you might need to search for 24" LCD monitors that incorporate PVA or IPS LCD panels. This task has gotten more difficult these days. On the other hand, PVA or IPS LCD panels generally are not as fast as TN panels. There is a bit of give and take and depends on what the primary purpose of the LCD monitor is going to be for you.

I hope that helped.

Best regards,
Jin

 

[xxceler8]

Originally posted by: 10e
That's a great thread Xceler8

I took a good look, and came up with the following:

1) Single link DVI/HDMI don't go beyond 1080p at 60hz. Not enough bandwidth. No such thing as dual-link HDMI either, even if there was, these TVs don't use it
2) The only time these screens can truly use 120hz is through frame interpolation.

Frame interpolation will cause a lot of input lag. Input lag is bad for PC gaming. It takes frames 1 and 2, looks at the motion, creates an intermediate frame, and then displays the three frames in order. That by itself will add two frames of lag above and beyond processing time. Expect 4 frames/66ms if you are lucky with 120hz on. You will end up turning it off for PC use. You'll be playing mouse cursor time warp.

If you were hoping to spend the $2500.00 and get the equivalent 120hz refresh rate of your old CRT you will be disappointed. You can't set the vid card at 120hz and 1920x1080. The TV will say "out of range", and that's assuming you could actually do it in the video card control panel.

I would look at the 530U Regza displays. They have a low input lag/game mode that gets them down to 2 frames/33ms. Very good for a TV. I'm not a huge Toshiba fan, but I give them props for actually giving a number. Maybe they are listening to the consumer.

Regards,

10e

I'm curious why you reccomend the 530U. I'm guessing it is due to the Gaming mode, which, the 540, and 550 also have. This mode bypasses video processing to reduce input lag.

Also I plan on connecting this to my vid card via HDMI, not RGB input, so in your judgement would the resolution still be limited to 1280x1024 ? I've read other people using their large LCD's with full resolution so I'm not sure why this would be limited to lower resolutions

 

[xxceler8]

Originally posted by: ST

Originally posted by: ST

Originally posted by: xtknight


HOME THEATER PC

Westinghouse LVM-37W3
Sceptre X37SV-Naga

47 total: 29.8% TN, 29.8% IPS, 40.4% VA

As one of the first ones to utilize the Westy's and Sceptres here, I would recommend you include my present 1080p HTPC LCD nowadays: Westy 47" LCM (or even the newer TX models with built in tuners).....easily better picture then my previous 37" Sceptres / Westys.

Just want to mention something that i find particular interesting happening in today's consumer market: the marriage of everyday TV's and computers. A couple of days ago I bought my new 52" Samsung LN52A750 LCD HDTV. Having been an ardent HTPC user for years, I was skeptical of the support from the mainstream brands , even with today's newer panels that feature 10 bit display, low 4ms response time, 120 Hz refresh rates, and most importantly Frame Interpolation Engines (FIE)! For those unfamiliar with this new FIE technology, the sets have an internal processor to add additional (interpolated) frames during the reconstruction from 60Hz input to 120 Hz input making fast movement very smooth and fluid, 3D or Soap Opera-sih like. On high definition content, especially CGI based films, it looks amazing! Anyhow, it used to be a hit or miss affair connecting a computer to your average home TV even with the big brands, but now all major players support PC connection natively letting you even bypass most of the internal scalers/electronics if you so wish. It's been a long time coming since about 5 years ago when i first purchased my no-name brand eccentric Sceptre 37" to now a mainstream TV set for PC usage. You really need to see these sets to believe the technology advancement these days! P.S. Here's my new "LCD" : http://i59.photobucket.com/alb.../Computer/IMG_0164.jpg .

What resolutions are you able to achieve connecting to PC?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Squidmaster
I RMAed DS-263N back to newegg due to port/reset issues we discussed here a few weeks ago, and even though the item was not refundable, it was out of stock so they issued me a refund anyway. I figure this gives me the opportunity to do a little more homework to see if there is a better option out there, or at least to shop around other dealers.

As some may recall, I complained of rather serious eye strain issues using this monitor, but during the peak of the allergy season. I'm using my old monitor now and am still having eye issues. They may not be as bad, but the difference between a 19" trinitron CRT and a 26" LCD is large and bound to cause some adjustment issues, especially for someone with serious health problems.

Indeed I have gotten tons of sinus headaches lately as well. Do you think this is the reason for your eye strain though? It may get worse when looking at a monitor simply because you are using your eyes to focus on a short-distance object for a longer period of time. This is not a natural thing for the eye.

That said, for those of you who have complained similarly about eye strain, did you resolve these issues? Did you find panels that did not cause eye fatigue, or make screen adjustments, or get used to it, or what exactly?

I am very interested in using my monitor as a secondary TV with comcast cable, but from what I'm reading here that may not be possible. Does it just not identify the cable box signal properly? Are there similar quality panels that do?

Thanks a bunch.

Not sure about this, although I had Comcast cable and tried hooking it up to my LCD2690WUXi through HDMI (and "HDMI mode" set to "DVI" set in service menu for cable box; "HDMI" didn't work). The LCD2690 doesn't support 1080i and therefore it worked but only with a warning screen and no deinterlacing. I think setting it to 720p worked fine on my display, though. I am unsure about the DS-263N in particular.