[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Teslacoiled

Originally posted by: xtknight
Viewing distance in itself will not affect the viewing angle. If you are not moving that much on the horizontal plane I don't think you will have trouble. In short, don't worry about it, and enjoy the G2400W.

I didn't quite get the gist of whether you actually pulled the trigger on the G2400W yet or not, but if VA panels are not much more expensive in your area you could consider those.

Isn't the viewing angle the same as "angle of view"? The closer you are to the monitor, the bigger the angle becomes. Are we talking about the same thing here?

When you say you'd be sitting 2-3 feet away, does that mean away at an angle or just away from the straight viewing plane? Just backpedaling from the monitor a few feet is not going to affect the panel (if this was the case, TN displays would all be black when you're looking at them from afar). Sitting farther away will slightly affect the perceived brightness. The viewing angle actually probably isn't as bad when you're looking from afar.

I decided to buy the G2400W because I need a 24'' and it was recommended by you, 10e, and I rarely saw bad reviews of it. I just wanted to know about the viewing angle. They cost $550 here, and I found it for $450 at one store. But because I'm a little paranoid, I think to myself "why would they sell it for a $100 less?! Maybe they have a faulty unit, or maybe dead pixels...". Tomorrow I'll call and ask them if I can test the monitor before buying it.

The VAs are too expensive for me, and besides, I already have the still excellent CRT, F520, hooked to another PC, like I stated before. So I just need the high resolution and a monitor that is suitable for my kind of work (sometimes more than 12 hours a day).

Thanks for replying!

The G2400 is good (especially for text work).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: yinlun
Phew..just finished the thread. There's a TON of info in there. Thank you.

But it's all somewhat gibberish to me..as I'm a simpleton.

My situation is that I currently have a 19" Hyundai L90D+ And of course, I don't know a thing about, but it's not widescreen. I bought it when my roommate found a sale and told me it was a good monitor.

I would like to pick up a second monitor to hook up to my computer, this way I can play games on one and have a movie playing on the other (mostly WoW and netflix) If I don't need any fancy webcams, speakers, usb ports. Just another monitor that does a the job my Hyundai does now and value oriented. It could be another 19" non wide screen, or a 22" Widescreen (I think that's the closest height right? The difference sitting on the desk would bug me) What would you recommend?

The ASUS VW222u and LG L227WT are great choices for your purposes. See if they are suitable.

A 22" widescreen has active height of 296.1mm, while a 19" standard is 301.1mm so these are very close in height.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: leglez
What category should I look at for video editing? I was thinking maybe office work or multimedia, but I am not sure. I use mac's, but there is no way I am going to throw money on the ground for a apple cinema LCD so I am looking for a good LCD for video editing.

The ViewSonic VX2435wm is a pretty good choice if you use the sRGB space. It has a nice gamma curve by default. If not, then the Dell 2408 is good for Adobe RGB.

Originally posted by: Denithor
Dell 2709W

Anyone seen this yet? Other than size, any obvious differences from the 2408wfp? Look like a good monitor or what?

It'll very likely be a VA panel. TFT Central has some info or speculation about it: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/ne...ve/12.htm#dell_2709W_2

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: frythecpuofbender
My 10 month old LG L226WA just bit the dust. The color had been slightly off in the upper right corner since the beginning, then it got darker in the upper half, like some backlight went out and a black spot started to swell in the upper right corner. I noticed an increase in temperature in the upper right corner of the screen and after a restart, the monitor doesn't display a picture anymore. (only LG logo)
I'm really pissed off now. I treated that monitor very, very good and still after 10 (!) months it went dark.

I'm now going through their swap program, hoping to get a good one, but I have to look for alternatives now.

I'm a lot into video editing, compositing (color!), 3d modeling and of course gaming. I know I probably should get a something like a 1300$ EIZO HD2441W, but that is a bit much for my strained purse.

Anyone have recommendations for a good 22'' or 24''?

Is the Samsung syncmaster 245B+ any good? I know it's a TN...

Well I think the ViewSonic VX2435wm is worth the investment. It's good for sRGB color space stuff. The default colors are very good.

I just think a TN would restrict you too much. But if you insist a G2400W is a good 24" TN with better default colors than the 245B.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Candymancan
Hey guys quick question. Iv been trying to ask this for 3 days on this and another forums but it seems no one knows anything and wont post to help me.

My 19 inch viewsonic LCD the vx922 broke, aparently its the major defect they all have and since there discontinued models why i dont know there only 2 or 3 years old regardless. Im still under warrenty and i already sent it in for RMA replacement.

I found out that since its discontinued i wont be reciving another one which is good i dont like that monitor anyway the pixel pitch was way to big i could see the gaps and the pixels on the monitor. Im not sure what im going to get in return but they said its going to be a better or equal monitor.

The only 19 inch models they have for the VX series is the VX1932WM, the VX1940W, and the VX1962WM.

Iv checked the specs and background for them all and i told them littery begged to put in the notes that i do not want the vx1932wm, i read it has issues with the 1440x900 resolution with movies and games ect i also heared it really defective and rumors thats its gonna be discontinued soon.

The one thats seems good is the VX1940W its been about for a year now and it has a low Response time they advertise 2ms but i know better. Regardless the contrast it suppose to be 1000:1 and 3000:1 with dynamtic contrast on. It also runs at 1680x1050 and since its a 19 inch with that resolution the pixel pitch and number of pixels is far superior to a 20-21-22 inch model making the picture much better like a really good CRT.

The other the VX1962WM came out this year in Feb i belive i dont see the diff between it and the one above cept the contrast is much higher, and it has built in "hidden speakers". I dont care about speakers but since there hidden that doesnt bother me i usually hate monitor's with speakers it makes them look ugly.

I havent found any real reviews on this model nor any issues people might be having with the vx1940 and the vx1962. So can someone help me please and tell me what i might be expecting here ?

Iv called viewsonic everyday for 4 days now telling each rep i do not want that vx1932, ill take either one of the other 2. Altho im pretty sure since my monitor was the top of the line back then i will probly recive the vx1962WM which is what i asked them to write down in the RMA notes. The guy said its like 90% positive that i will get that because they have a warehouse full of them

You should probably be expecting a monitor that's as good as the VX922 or better in most areas. Although, some of ViewSonic's models have response time issues. It's impossible to know which ones without seeing a decent review (which are hard to find) and you kind of got stuck in a situation where you needed to get a ViewSonic instead, so I don't know.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: yinlun
I just put in an order for the
ASUS PG221 Black-Silver 22" 2ms(GTG) Widescreen LCD Monitor w/1.3M Pixel Webcam

Normally goes for about $600 which is way out of my range, but it was $325 all said and done. It's even cheaper if you live in an area that doesn't have to pay tax to NewEgg.com

Otherwise..
$409.99 Mwave.com
$100 Asus Rebate
2% Fatwallet Cashback

Still on the pricier side of the 22" screens, but I didn't see a negative review on this thing. Hopefully it's nice.

It got a pretty good review at Tom's Hardware: http://www.thg.ru/display/22_l...2008/asus_pg221_1.html

 

[HotdogStorm]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Going in you must realize you have to make sacrifices, either your wallet or the screen quality.

Thanks for the advice, looks like I'm just gonna stick to CRT as long as possible.

 

[Teslacoiled]

Originally posted by: xtknight
When you say you'd be sitting 2-3 feet away, does that mean away at an angle or just away from the straight viewing plane? Just backpedaling from the monitor a few feet is not going to affect the panel (if this was the case, TN displays would all be black when you're looking at them from afar). Sitting farther away will slightly affect the perceived brightness. The viewing angle actually probably isn't as bad when you're looking from afar.

The G2400 is good (especially for text work).

All I meant is that the closer you sit to it, the bigger the angle of view at which you're looking at the borders of the screen. Maybe my question was not so clear because I never even owned an LCD!

Anyway, everything is good now, the G2400W is sitting in the other room. I bought it 6-7 hours ago only, but I already love it! There is some backlight bleeding in the dark (turned the lights off to test it), but I never work in the dark anyway. The viewing angle is a lot better than I thought. And the resolution is great!

Thank God I could test the monitor before buying it! I went to a store yesterday, and when they turned it on, a bright red stuck pixel was shining in the very center! I ordered another one in another store today, and I got another one with a stuck red pixel in the center. Then they called me from the first store and told me they have another one for me, if I'm still interested. No dead or stuck pixels of course. A bright red dot in the center is too much for me to bear, and would have haunted me in my dreams. I decided not to buy a BenQ monitor if the 3rd one was defective, too.

Thanks for the advice xtknight, and for the best resource about LCD monitors!

 

[frythecpuofbender]

Thx for the advice xtknight, but I bought a Samsung Syncmaster 245BPlus today.
I read some reviews which said that it pretty much matched sRGB space and for the price of 389? it sounded right.
I'm glad to report that it is way better than my previous LG L226WA.
The stand isn't as cheap, it can be moved, rotated and tilted, the whole casing looks way more pro, the backlight is more evenly lit.
I just gamed a little (Crysis, Flatout 2) and response times are great, less ghosting than L226WA, didn't really notice any.
No dead pixels!
I'm pretty happy right now, only thing left is finding the right R, G, B, Gamma, Brightness, Contrast values. Colors look good already, but I'd like to make sure standard grey is as close to 128,128,128 as possible. Any particular method/tool you'd recommend to "calibrate" a "cheap" LCD?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: frythecpuofbender
Thx for the advice xtknight, but I bought a Samsung Syncmaster 245BPlus today.
I read some reviews which said that it pretty much matched sRGB space and for the price of 389? it sounded right.
I'm glad to report that it is way better than my previous LG L226WA.
The stand isn't as cheap, it can be moved, rotated and tilted, the whole casing looks way more pro, the backlight is more evenly lit.
I just gamed a little (Crysis, Flatout 2) and response times are great, less ghosting than L226WA, didn't really notice any.
No dead pixels!
I'm pretty happy right now, only thing left is finding the right R, G, B, Gamma, Brightness, Contrast values. Colors look good already, but I'd like to make sure standard grey is as close to 128,128,128 as possible. Any particular method/tool you'd recommend to "calibrate" a "cheap" LCD?

Sorry there's not much else I can tell you but what's in the OP about calibration.

Originally posted by: Teslacoiled

Originally posted by: xtknight
When you say you'd be sitting 2-3 feet away, does that mean away at an angle or just away from the straight viewing plane? Just backpedaling from the monitor a few feet is not going to affect the panel (if this was the case, TN displays would all be black when you're looking at them from afar). Sitting farther away will slightly affect the perceived brightness. The viewing angle actually probably isn't as bad when you're looking from afar.

The G2400 is good (especially for text work).

All I meant is that the closer you sit to it, the bigger the angle of view at which you're looking at the borders of the screen. Maybe my question was not so clear because I never even owned an LCD!

Anyway, everything is good now, the G2400W is sitting in the other room. I bought it 6-7 hours ago only, but I already love it! There is some backlight bleeding in the dark (turned the lights off to test it), but I never work in the dark anyway. The viewing angle is a lot better than I thought. And the resolution is great!

Thank God I could test the monitor before buying it! I went to a store yesterday, and when they turned it on, a bright red stuck pixel was shining in the very center! I ordered another one in another store today, and I got another one with a stuck red pixel in the center. Then they called me from the first store and told me they have another one for me, if I'm still interested. No dead or stuck pixels of course. A bright red dot in the center is too much for me to bear, and would have haunted me in my dreams. I decided not to buy a BenQ monitor if the 3rd one was defective, too.

Thanks for the advice xtknight, and for the best resource about LCD monitors!

Good to hear. I am glad you got that settled.

 

[guptasa1]

Originally posted by: xtknight

The PX2611W is a sufficient alternative to the DoubleSight. It just doesn't have the A-TW polarizer.

Thanks. I did some more research, and the PX-2611W is on its way (as is the rest of the computer). I'm a little nervous but mostly excited. Reasons I went with the PX2611W:

- I researched Planar and was impressed by their history of making medical LCD's and such.
- I also found out Planar's customer support is regarded quite a bit better than Doublesight's, they have customer service that's easy to work with, a great warranty (3 year 2 day advance-replacement), and they also have a pretty good dead pixel policy from what I've been hearing (not sure the specifics, but supposedly if you send a photo and the request is reasonable, they'll replace it...some people have said they've replaced it for 1).
- I decided I didn't want to wait on a whole build when everything else was ready for an unknown while there was a viable alternative available. The new DS is looking good, but you never know what problems even small changes could introduce.
- I got a pretty good price from Provantage, and it looks like their standard 30-day return policy applies as well if I don't like it (didn't see any dead pixel policy at all, so I assume all I would have to say is I'm not happy, though there's probably a restocking fee).

I have a feeling I'll like the monitor a lot. I dunno if I'll miss the A-TW polarizer or not, but since (if I'm understanding it correctly) it only helps at pretty large angles, I really don't think it'll bother me - most of my work is always straight on.

Oh, and I got the NeoFlex widescreen (the big-monitor one) stand so I'll be able to do rotation and such as well. All in all I think it will work out well.

 

[Candymancan]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Candymancan
Hey guys quick question. Iv been trying to ask this for 3 days on this and another forums but it seems no one knows anything and wont post to help me.

My 19 inch viewsonic LCD the vx922 broke, aparently its the major defect they all have and since there discontinued models why i dont know there only 2 or 3 years old regardless. Im still under warrenty and i already sent it in for RMA replacement.

I found out that since its discontinued i wont be reciving another one which is good i dont like that monitor anyway the pixel pitch was way to big i could see the gaps and the pixels on the monitor. Im not sure what im going to get in return but they said its going to be a better or equal monitor.

The only 19 inch models they have for the VX series is the VX1932WM, the VX1940W, and the VX1962WM.

Iv checked the specs and background for them all and i told them littery begged to put in the notes that i do not want the vx1932wm, i read it has issues with the 1440x900 resolution with movies and games ect i also heared it really defective and rumors thats its gonna be discontinued soon.

The one thats seems good is the VX1940W its been about for a year now and it has a low Response time they advertise 2ms but i know better. Regardless the contrast it suppose to be 1000:1 and 3000:1 with dynamtic contrast on. It also runs at 1680x1050 and since its a 19 inch with that resolution the pixel pitch and number of pixels is far superior to a 20-21-22 inch model making the picture much better like a really good CRT.

The other the VX1962WM came out this year in Feb i belive i dont see the diff between it and the one above cept the contrast is much higher, and it has built in "hidden speakers". I dont care about speakers but since there hidden that doesnt bother me i usually hate monitor's with speakers it makes them look ugly.

I havent found any real reviews on this model nor any issues people might be having with the vx1940 and the vx1962. So can someone help me please and tell me what i might be expecting here ?

Iv called viewsonic everyday for 4 days now telling each rep i do not want that vx1932, ill take either one of the other 2. Altho im pretty sure since my monitor was the top of the line back then i will probly recive the vx1962WM which is what i asked them to write down in the RMA notes. The guy said its like 90% positive that i will get that because they have a warehouse full of them

You should probably be expecting a monitor that's as good as the VX922 or better in most areas. Although, some of ViewSonic's models have response time issues. It's impossible to know which ones without seeing a decent review (which are hard to find) and you kind of got stuck in a situation where you needed to get a ViewSonic instead, so I don't know.

Well they did say that to me, and there only 19 inch models avail for the VX's are the 3 i mentioned.

Which is more comparible i dont know. I dont know much about monitor's, from the specs on the vx922 its not as good as either of these 3 so either one will be a upgrade.

The price tho is what im looking at, back then the VX922 was the top model i paid $350 for it when they were released. The best one they currently have is the VX1962WM for 19 inchs. The VX1940W i belive is the same just older and not as bright. Oh well time will tell i guess, they put in notes suggesting to upgrade me to the VX1962WM and also said they have alot in stock so i'll probly get that.

I hope i do get that or the vx1940W, someone here mention 19 inch monitor's are small. They arent that small, and you have to relise these are 19 inchs with a 22 inch resolution 1680x1050 meaning the screen maybe smaller but it has as many pixels as a 22 inch monitor, imagine what that screen will look like the picture on that monitor should look alot better then any 22 or higher, small maybe but alot better. 19 inchs isnt small to me anyway thats good enough for me.

If you know what dot pitch i belive a review said they were like .22 or .23 thats amazing

From what iv read googling, these monitor's have a super small pixel pitch or dot pitch w/e they look like the good CRT'S did in the past. Thats one thing i hated about my VX922 it was 1280x1024 native so the pixels were so big and seperated it was kinda sucky to look at cuss you count every dot a mile away.

Well i wont know what i get till the end of the month i think. UPS is being slow i shipped it out on the 1st, not counting the 4th and the weekands they said itll be deliverd on the 11t'th :/ thats rediculously slow even for ground. Then i gatta wait 7-14 days for viewsonic to make up there minds, and then 2 more days cuss they do 2 days shipping... I really hate RMA's

 

[iamap]

I received my KDS K-2626mdhwb on the July 3rd, from NewEgg, and I'm very happy with it so far. I also ordered a VisionTek Radeon 4870 that I haven't installed yet but I'm sure it'll look just as nice as it does with my 8800GT.

Thanks for all of the info...

 

[Chronoshock]

Originally posted by: guptasa1

Originally posted by: xtknight

The PX2611W is a sufficient alternative to the DoubleSight. It just doesn't have the A-TW polarizer.

Thanks. I did some more research, and the PX-2611W is on its way (as is the rest of the computer). I'm a little nervous but mostly excited. Reasons I went with the PX2611W:

- I researched Planar and was impressed by their history of making medical LCD's and such.
- I also found out Planar's customer support is regarded quite a bit better than Doublesight's, they have customer service that's easy to work with, a great warranty (3 year 2 day advance-replacement), and they also have a pretty good dead pixel policy from what I've been hearing (not sure the specifics, but supposedly if you send a photo and the request is reasonable, they'll replace it...some people have said they've replaced it for 1).
- I decided I didn't want to wait on a whole build when everything else was ready for an unknown while there was a viable alternative available. The new DS is looking good, but you never know what problems even small changes could introduce.
- I got a pretty good price from Provantage, and it looks like their standard 30-day return policy applies as well if I don't like it (didn't see any dead pixel policy at all, so I assume all I would have to say is I'm not happy, though there's probably a restocking fee).

I have a feeling I'll like the monitor a lot. I dunno if I'll miss the A-TW polarizer or not, but since (if I'm understanding it correctly) it only helps at pretty large angles, I really don't think it'll bother me - most of my work is always straight on.

Oh, and I got the NeoFlex widescreen (the big-monitor one) stand so I'll be able to do rotation and such as well. All in all I think it will work out well.

My PX2611W should be arriving in a few days, we can compare impressions. My current monitor is getting worse by the minute, so I hope it comes soon.

 

[Bysheon]

This is an awsome thread, in every meaning of the word. Thanks for all the effort, especially xtknight off course.

Ok, I have a question for xtknight or anyone else that know anything about this. I've searched the thread but haven't come up with an answer. Number 1 recommendation for hardcore gaming is LG L227WT. The rt and input lag is said to be zero. The official spec for this monitor is 2ms response time, and here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/lg_l227wt.htm the input lag is tested to be 9,4 in average. So, whutup with the zero image delay? Seriously, I wonder if this really is the same monitor with same panel, or if there is something I'm missing. If the image delay as you call it is zero, this may be monitor I want (for gaming). If not, I'm kinda looking at Iiyama ProLite E2201W or a CRT. I would really appreciate it if I could get some clarity about this.

One other thing. My current monitor is Hyundai L90D+. I've been trying to measure and improve my reaction time recently and therefore I'd like to know the image delay on this monitor. Anyone who knows? I've been googling this lilke crazy but haven't come up with anything at all.

Anyway, thanks for a really great thread. Vey much appreciated. Especially the info on input lag in these times when manufacturers doesn't excactly tell us anything about that.


Edit: Oh, my bad. I couldn't browse the thread properly earlier. Don't know why, maybe something with firefox. Anyway, reading through it know.

Edit: Spelling

 

[frythecpuofbender]

ok I dunno if it's of interest, but I wanted to write a followup to my previous post.
I just received my warranty exchange monitor from LG, another LG L226WA. Don't has the problems the first one exhibited from the beginning (color being off in the upper right corner) and has no dead pixels it seems. Seems pretty new to me, no evil "let's give him another foul one" plot.
So congrats for LG for still being a viable choice when I consider my next purchase.

Now compared to the Samsung 24'' 245BPlus next to it, the LG looses. The evenness of the backlight is not as good, e.g. darkened corners. When you put up one colored fullscreen images (red, blue, green, etc) The picture of the LG doesn't seem as even and steady.
As for gaming: I played a lot of Crysis MP over the last two days and as silly as it sounds, I got better with the Samsung! Dunno if it's due to the increased size and seeing snipers etc earlier or the much improved ghosting, but it feels nicer to run around.
So the LG will become my palette monitor...sorry buddy.

 

[Bysheon]

Ok, I've read through the thread. Nothing new about this. Anyone? For serious gamers it would be greeat to actually have a decent LCD alternative. The input lag is crucial though. A 2ms response time isn't excactly something you want but personally I could accept it (even though some would never even consider it) - if there is no additional image delay. If there is, nvm (unless maybe if it's like 0,2ms average). What I'm trying to say is that whether the monitor have input lag or not is actually important and highly interesting to me and many others who take their gaming seriously and/or just want to know what they're buying. I mean, for a well built, high quality monitor with decent fidelity you have to pay so much money it's ridiculous, so you compromise with the things that are less important to you, squint your eyes and look for what are most important to you. You kinda don't want to compromise with those things too.. Anyway, sorry for the OT.

Anyone know anything more about this?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Bysheon
This is an awsome thread, in every meaning of the word. Thanks for all the effort, especially xtknight off course.

Ok, I have a question for xtknight or anyone else that know anything about this. I've searched the thread but haven't come up with an answer. Number 1 recommendation for hardcore gaming is LG L227WT. The rt and input lag is said to be zero. The official spec for this monitor is 2ms response time, and here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/lg_l227wt.htm the input lag is tested to be 9,4 in average. So, whutup with the zero image delay? Seriously, I wonder if this really is the same monitor with same panel, or if there is something I'm missing. If the image delay as you call it is zero, this may be monitor I want (for gaming). If not, I'm kinda looking at Iiyama ProLite E2201W or a CRT. I would really appreciate it if I could get some clarity about this.

One other thing. My current monitor is Hyundai L90D+. I've been trying to measure and improve my reaction time recently and therefore I'd like to know the image delay on this monitor. Anyone who knows? I've been googling this lilke crazy but haven't come up with anything at all.

Anyway, thanks for a really great thread. Vey much appreciated. Especially the info on input lag in these times when manufacturers doesn't excactly tell us anything about that.


Edit: Oh, my bad. I couldn't browse the thread properly earlier. Don't know why, maybe something with firefox. Anyway, reading through it know.

Edit: Spelling

prad reported the L227WT as having zero input lag, and even a photo of it. http://prad.de/en/monitore/rev...-lg-l227wt-part12.html

Therefore, this is where the info in the OP came from. Once again though the fact that input lag varies among different sites is nothing new. I'm not sure why it happens, it could be a video card configuration issue, or someone measuring it wrong, but the measurements tend to coincide by around a frame.

If you look at DigitalVersus they have terrible ratings for the L227WT's input lag: http://www.digitalversus.com/d...9&p1=3278&ma2=35&ph=12

Why is anyone's guess. From the subjective reviews I've heard, the L227WT is great for gaming.

Another thing is that while LCDs shouldn't have even a frame or two of lag, you have to realize that that amount of it is simply hard to notice for anyone. Hence why manufacturers keep putting out LCDs with lag. If nobody bought them, they just wouldn't be making them anymore. The 60 Hz refresh rate of an LCD is the first thing that makes it feel slower compared to the CRT.

I guess the severity of the problem is akin to saying that your calculator takes an extra second to turn on versus your old one. It's just something that doesn't cause any discomfort when we're talking two frames or less of input lag. Three or higher begins to be noticeable, and especially four or higher.

Get an LCD with an avg (2 frame) or low amount (<2 frames) of input lag for a store and give it the time of day. Maybe you will like it. Even knowing the L227WT has around zero-one frame of lag from reputable sources, it will remain on my Gaming list.

If you want an LCD that's as fast as a CRT, you will have to wait for more technological advances that keep every crystal transition to under 1 millisecond, and implement flicker-free black frame insertion. Currently, the best LCDs can not transition any faster than 6 ms for every single transition, and BFI has a 60 Hz CRT-like flicker.

Will those advances come and when? Maybe with blue phase LCD crystals, which aren't due out for at least another couple of years. Maybe with color filter-less LCDs which probably won't ever see the light of day. With OLED? Yes, except BFI or motion estimation still needs to be implemented in order to provide an image as smooth as a CRT because of retinal persistence.

You will see response time advancements such as 180-240 Hz and higher-quality motion estimation in LCD TVs [first], but there is no guarantee they will ever reach the world of LCD monitors before OLED/SEDs assume control of the market.

For now, it is best to assume that your eyes are as anyone else's, and to accept the downfalls of current LCD technology. If it becomes an impediment to your favorite hobby it is time to lug in the 50lb monster again. Plopping down $700 for a monitor that doesn't have viewing angle problems or a slow update rate is fiscal diarrhea. You bet I wish I could do something about that.

In addition to that, I have to say, I hope you find the right LCD. You seem to have already been researching it (L227WT). My crystal ball (80% accuracy rate!) says it should be as fast or faster than your Hyundai.

It is important not to relate LCD response times to ping times you see in a game. Ping times measure the round-trip time it takes for one packet to reach the server until another packet comes back to the client. To get even halfway even with the way input lag is measured, you would have to divide the ping in half. Additionally, with a ping>0, the network engine of the game client employs estimation to determine where the "player" intended to be. Sometimes this estimation can be jerky and cause a sensation of lack of control. Game ping has stuff in the fine print that the flat input lag time of LCDs does not. You may be able to feel the game client's flawed motion estimation far before you would notice an offset in response. The motion estimation I talk of in games modifies the player's movements. "Motion estimation" in video terms ("video smoothing" in video codecs, or "Motion Picture Accelerator", MPA, in LCDs) attempts to model the same object as it moves across 2 frames and creates an intermediate frame to ease motion.

 

[leftheaded]

i can't post threads.... so i'll try my luck in this abyss

the only thing i'm not liking on my dell 3008 is this weird grainy-like "film" i see with light colors (eg like whites etc..). it's hard to describe, but it made me brush the screen b/c it almost seemed like there was dust on it. it's very noticable, but i can't tell at all on darks.

i'm hoping the grainy/film thing just needs proper calibration. ...which i hope to do tonight with my spyder2 pro

anyone else experience this? is this just an artifact of displays this size?

 

[HotdogStorm]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Another thing is that while LCDs shouldn't have even a frame or two of lag, you have to realize that that amount of it is simply hard to notice for anyone.

That really depends what you do with the monitor. In my case I tried playing a couple puzzle games on the PVA I use at work which from old reports has between 25-50ms lag. It's painfully obvious something is wrong and I would have to relearn entire skillsets, not to mention the tangible loss of reaction time.

Your contention really only holds up to games that either aren't so sensitive or already have some degree of latency involved from a network. Even 2 frames can mean a world of difference, just not to the majority of modern gamers.

 

[Chronoshock]

Originally posted by: leftheaded
i can't post threads.... so i'll try my luck in this abyss

the only thing i'm not liking on my dell 3008 is this weird grainy-like "film" i see with light colors (eg like whites etc..). it's hard to describe, but it made me brush the screen b/c it almost seemed like there was dust on it. it's very noticable, but i can't tell at all on darks.

i'm hoping the grainy/film thing just needs proper calibration. ...which i hope to do tonight with my spyder2 pro

anyone else experience this? is this just an artifact of displays this size?

I believe that's a result of the matte anti-glare coating. Glossy panels don't have this effect. The effect is present on many monitors, and unfortunately no amount of calibration will change that. If you sit far enough back you shouldn't notice it eventually

 

[postmortemIA]

Originally posted by: Chronoshock

Originally posted by: leftheaded
i can't post threads.... so i'll try my luck in this abyss

the only thing i'm not liking on my dell 3008 is this weird grainy-like "film" i see with light colors (eg like whites etc..). it's hard to describe, but it made me brush the screen b/c it almost seemed like there was dust on it. it's very noticable, but i can't tell at all on darks.

i'm hoping the grainy/film thing just needs proper calibration. ...which i hope to do tonight with my spyder2 pro

anyone else experience this? is this just an artifact of displays this size?

I believe that's a result of the matte anti-glare coating. Glossy panels don't have this effect. The effect is present on many monitors, and unfortunately no amount of calibration will change that. If you sit far enough back you shouldn't notice it eventually

Yep, my Gateway 24" FPD2485W was notorious for that effect. It made all text blurry. However, it did made blacks and white terrific.

 

[miken32]

"There are currently no desktop LCD monitors available with a built-in HDTV tuner, however, so you'd have to hookup an external one if you wanted to watch HDTV."

Samsung's T220HD has proved you wrong I'm afraid!

And since I'm posting here, are there any thoughts on this monitor -- or the plain old T220? I've seen some conflicting reviews on it (aside from the looks, which everyone agrees are stunning.) It would almost exclusively be used with MCE, since most of my "computing" is done on my MacBook.

I think I've narrowed it down to the T220 or the Dell 2208 since I can't afford a *VA or IPS.

Thanks for any advice or suggestions.

 

[leftheaded]

Originally posted by: postmortemIA

Originally posted by: Chronoshock

Originally posted by: leftheaded
i can't post threads.... so i'll try my luck in this abyss

the only thing i'm not liking on my dell 3008 is this weird grainy-like "film" i see with light colors (eg like whites etc..). it's hard to describe, but it made me brush the screen b/c it almost seemed like there was dust on it. it's very noticable, but i can't tell at all on darks.

i'm hoping the grainy/film thing just needs proper calibration. ...which i hope to do tonight with my spyder2 pro

anyone else experience this? is this just an artifact of displays this size?

I believe that's a result of the matte anti-glare coating. Glossy panels don't have this effect. The effect is present on many monitors, and unfortunately no amount of calibration will change that. If you sit far enough back you shouldn't notice it eventually

Yep, my Gateway 24" FPD2485W was notorious for that effect. It made all text blurry. However, it did made blacks and white terrific.

thanks for the confirmation/feedback!

ok, this is the second forum attributing it as an artifact of anti glare finish. maybe i just need to start doing some photo editing, but how in the world are people really using these for accuracy with this ??? it's almost like editing with a faint effect over the whole screen? do people just get used to it? for those that can't stand this, which display do you use?

NEC LCD2690?

i'll take these questions over to dpreview

 

[gene0915]

Going on advice from this topic.... I purchased an LG L227WTG from Best Buy this evening. I loaded a few games and I'm AMAZED by this monitor! No ghosting at all! No dead pixels either!

Got a single question..... my desktop background is black. I noticed at the top of the screen, a LITTLE, TINY, TINY bit of ghost type/white light. When a game starts or if I use like a blue background, I don't see this at all. I've also noticed this on my LCD TV in the bedroom. I think this is normal from what I can tell or should I take this back to BB?

Thanks