[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BDawg

Originally posted by: CurseTheSky


I just got off the phone with a Westinghouse rep. She talked with some of the internal techs, and confirmed that they indeed are TN panels. They said that the new TN panel is "superior" to the older MVA panels.... riiiight.

Their website still claims it's an MVA panel, though.

Having delt with Westinghouse support for the last week, I can assure you, they don't know their butts from a hole in the ground.

Due to converting my AV room into my study / weight room for a potential baby, I was thinking about buying a Samsung or Panasonic 1080p 37 or 40" set for my computer and for TV. Is this an incredibly stupid idea?

That's tempting, but I could tell you I couldn't stand using a monitor that big for my computer. That's just my opinion and many people do anyway. Most TVs these days hookup to the computer and I think HD 1080p certified ones ensure no overscan.

Originally posted by: maddiebrad
Hello,
This thread is really great and informative. I am just wondering however why the HP LP3065 isn't really mentioned here. The screen has been out for some time, and is quite established. It seems to be quite highly recommended on other forums. Digital verses also has nothing listed about it. Would really love to see some real world numbers on input lag on this screen.

Regards,
Brad

Well the Dell 3007WFP-HC is the same thing for cheaper. The LP3065 is probably just as good. Input lag should be in line with other IPS panels; that is, not much.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: MRIM
Just an update about the NEC 2490WUXi: I got the replacement just now and it has the same problems (I checked the serial # and it's different from the first one by 2 digits). There's a slight inward flex in the middle of the panel versus the corners, a slightly cooler color cast on the left than on the right, and the same weird noises emitted from the monitor when displaying a simple black-and-white striped pattern. I'm going to call NEC and see if I can talk to someone knowledgeable. If they give me nothing then I'm probably just going to return it for a refund. $1100 is too much to put up with these problems.

For those of you looking for a high-end monitor my recommendation is to stay away from the NEC at this point, it seems like they've got manufacturing problems.

I'll be interested to hear what monitor you settle on. Granted NEC does have some QC difficulties although you will be hard-pressed to find IPS panels in too many other places. Planar, DoubleSight, and LaCie have some IPS panels you can try. Not all of them have the calibration flexibility that the NEC has. DoubleSight's isn't available as the new IPS model is coming out, and Planar's PX2611W lacks the A-TW polarizer.

Originally posted by: brettjrob
Like a few others, I'm finding the decision-making process for a new LCD maddening in comparison to the rest of my planned new rig.

I'm currently on an extremely crappy LG L1715S display, so absolutely anything will be an upgrade. The problem is, one of my main uses will be photo editing, in addition to gaming, web design, and normal use. I'm a college student on a limited budget, and it seems virtually impossible to graduate to something better than a TN panel without going beyond my means.

I'm almost set on grabbing the Acer AL2216Wbd on NewEgg for $209; reason being that I've reached the conclusion that a high-quality monitor larger than 19" sufficient for pro photo editing is simply not within my reach ($400-450 max), so I may as well get something basic to hold me over for a few years until that changes. A few questions, though:

1. For those who follow this stuff, would you expect better-quality panels to come down in price significantly over the next few years? For example, is it reasonable to expect to be able to pick up a 24" IPS or VA panel in the $300-400 range within 2-3 years?

For VA panels you already can and have been able to (Soyo 24", Westinghouse L2410NM). I would never expect a 23"+ IPS panel for under $500.

2. I saw something posted a couple pages back about the HP LP2275w 22" S-PVA display due out in August. It appears pricing info has not yet been released, but am I dreaming to hope that it might be in the $350-450 range? As far as I can tell, it's the first non-TN 22" on the market, so I guess there's not much of a point of reference in terms of pricing.

It will probably be pricey, I'm guessing $450 or higher. Other 22" VAs include the Eizo S2431W and Lenovo L220X.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: gevorg
Which monitor type (TN, IPS, VA, etc) is best for movies? Which type shows blacker blacks? Played by the computer (so DVI/HDMI), not external video source.

Any suggestions for a 24"ish size and around $600 in price?

IPS panels are the best overall for movies due to their low color shift at wide angles. They are also able to reveal the darker end of the grayscale in a stable manner, unlike VA or TN panels.

You won't find an IPS for around $600 anymore. The older DoubleSight DS-263N was $700 although I'm not sure at what price their newer model is debuting.

Your next best would be the Dell 2408WFP (VA).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: DandyJ
The LG L227WT is listed as having no input lag and a good picture, with the timed photo test. But then according to this test, it's going on 2 frames of input lag on average. So which is it? I guess I'm more inclined to trust the photo, but what's up with the charts there? I don't want to get a hold of this thing and feel 2 frames of input lag.

edit - I read if the monitors are in clone mode, that test may pointless. Is that true?

edit 2 - OK i see this has been covered. I guess I'm going to go with this one, since everyone says it's great, and there's really no other monitor that got very good reviews and has the features I want. You've done a great job with the thread, thanks!

Like I say I honestly have no idea what's up with DigitalVersus but everything I've heard about the L227 has been glowing.

Originally posted by: BRDiger
Any chance you might review the V7 Videoseven D24W33?
One of the cheapest 24" you can get in germany.
It had a short, but promissing review at gamestar.de which is, unfortunately lacking in details...

Very likely not, as I don't receive review samples and I wouldn't choose that brand, but that doesn't mean it's not a good LCD.

Originally posted by: ceremus
Awesome thread here, first of all.

Does anyone have any reviews or info on the LG W2241T-PF? It's a 22" widescreen, I believe it's a TN panel of some type but I can't find much info for it beyond that. A friend of mine is looking to replace a dead LCD and she's had her eye on the LG L227WT, but this one caught her eye because it's about the same size, and Best Buy is going to have it on sale for $319 minus $100 instant this first week of August. If the retail price is around the same as the L227 I tend to think it should be around the same type and build of monitor, but I can't find anything to confirm it. Anyone have any info or comparisons?

Unfortunately I don't have any information on that LCD but I do know the L227 is worth the money over something $50-75 cheaper that may not be nearly as good. It's hard to know but LG can pump out lemons just like anyone else.

Originally posted by: cyberkost
Does anyone have any more info about upcoming Vizio VMM monitor? I gather it's going to have resolution higher than that of typical PC LCDs ... any idea what kind of panel might they be using? I like the size/design/price.

It's just a normal TV basically with PC input that works without overscan. I don't see anything special here and for the price it can't be anything but TN or VA, and likely will not be any higher than 1920x1080 resolution, if that.

Originally posted by: T0bias
Hello,
I am considering buying an LG L227WT monitor, but I am a bit worried about it's colors. The monitor is going to be used for gaming (not hardcore/pro gaming though ) and general use (websurfing, text editing etc). Moreover I am making some websites and graphics in photoshop at an amateur level.

So my questions are:

1) Is the LG monitor's wide color gamut a bad thing compared with the more common sRGB when working with photoshop and creating websites?

Well yes, it is. But you could use the included ICC profile on the CD with Photoshop and you would have quite a usable sRGB monitor. But a true sRGB monitor is still a better idea. It leaves less room for error.

2) Do you think the LG's colors will be good enough for my purposes? After some research I convinced myself that these TN based panels will be sufficient, but the wide color gamut stuff messes a bit up with this

I think so, but the sRGB ASUS VW222u is probably a better choice for your purposes.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Hello this is probably the most in depth thread I have ever read on LCD panels, very well written. I have certainly learned a lot in the past few hours of reading. I find the task of selecting monitor(s) daunting at this point.

What would you recommend for a fulltime graphic designer that is also a software programmer and a part time photographer? I need to buy three monitors and the ideal in my mind would be three 24"+ maybe 27"+ that can be rotated easily for reviewing very long coded documents of programming and high resolution portrait images.

All this will be mounted on a tri monitor mount and attached to an ergonomic pneumatic desk unit. I assume at least $1000 each for the panels but would like to pay less if I can.

Any recommendations? Thank you for your time.

The LCD2490WUXi I think is definitely worth it for you. These LCDs will handle anything you throw at them. I wouldn't get the 26" unless you do wide gamut worked. You should be able to get a better deal on the LCD24 than on Newegg.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: YouHoserMeHosehead
:evil:
It is with great triumph that I announce, as my first post (and as a test), that I have completed reading every single page of this thread, from the beginning.

You may all now give me extended raspberries.

What did I find most compelling, in all these 257 pages of reading, including the OP? A post by "albovin" regarding the multimedia capabilities of the NEC LCD2690WUXi, despite that it "only" has two DVI and one VGA ports. There has been excellent info throughout, and truly superior info and perspective from xtnight (although 10e has been good too). That's what led me to buy that display in the SV version including calibration at $1150 without shipping. It was $987 for the non-SV version.

What, that seems too low? Check OnSale.com: that's where I bought it from. They have instant discounts on these NEC 2x90s, including a $250 instant discount on my LCD2690WUXi-SV. That suddenly found price incentive swayed me to buy this, even though the forthcoming DougleSight DS-265W (August sometime) will no doubt be a worthy successor to the previous model. I figured I'd know that I bought quality, and have no doubts. This instant discount is also why I got the SV option now: it turns out to be less than paying $987 and then $250 later on for the SV kit.

I believe MacMall owns/partners OnSale.com: they seem to have the LCD2690WUXi-SV at $1170, still a lot less than normal (example, the OP has the LCD2490WUXi non-SV at around $1200, or $30 more for a display missing SV and 2" smaller. Amazing).

Mine doesn't appear to have any dead pixels. I calibrated it once for "Broadcast" because that was the default, but need to understand more and do it again for the settings best for me.

I admit that I may have been better off saving $350 or so and buying the new DS-265W (although to be fair, $150 extra was for the SV option). What can I plead, but temporary insanity? :laugh:

The price incentive changed the delta from $600 to about $250 or less for getting an NEC over the DoubleSight (guessing that the new model will be $800 or so). I wonder what xtnight would recommend, given that ?

I urge folks to search on "albovin" to find his extended post, and then continue to see xtnight's informative response. Memory tells me it's around page 157 ?

I'm completely new to console gaming, and now want to buy a silver PS2 (I fondly remember playing the old Megaman games, and want to get the PS2 collection).

All I need to do is identify the video output of that device, and then buy an adapter cable if it's not DVI. I *think* it's component out, and that I can get a component-VGA or component-DVI adapter (Monoprice.com of course). Does anyone know for sure?

Who else uses consoles with this kind of NEC and how have they connected them? I'd appreciate any comments or perspective. I can try to answer questions too, I suppose.

also sprach The Hosehead

Yup albovin's post was very helpful. I don't think I would have had the time or patience to provide what he had on the NECs and 2408WFP.

Given only a $250 delta I would still (for most people) say get the DS-263N, but at the moment that's not an option anyway. If you edited photos (Adobe RGB) the extra may be worth it, if that extra $250 got you the one with the SV kit. Any more though is just stretching it, and you can still get great results with a DS-263N and software calibrator.

 

[gevorg]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: gevorg
Which monitor type (TN, IPS, VA, etc) is best for movies? Which type shows blacker blacks? Played by the computer (so DVI/HDMI), not external video source.

Any suggestions for a 24"ish size and around $600 in price?

IPS panels are the best overall for movies due to their low color shift at wide angles. They are also able to reveal the darker end of the grayscale in a stable manner, unlike VA or TN panels.

You won't find an IPS for around $600 anymore. The older DoubleSight DS-263N was $700 although I'm not sure at what price their newer model is debuting.

Your next best would be the Dell 2408WFP (VA).

Thanks for the great explanation!

So if you're watching movies at optimal viewing angles, will the Dell 2408WFP still have better image quality and video smoothness than some really good TN monitor like Samsung 245BW or recent T240HD? I just want to make sure that the Dell is worth the extra due to better image quality even at optimal viewing angles for both monitors.

 

[T0bias]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: T0bias
1) Is the LG monitor's wide color gamut a bad thing compared with the more common sRGB when working with photoshop and creating websites?

Well yes, it is. But you could use the included ICC profile on the CD with Photoshop and you would have quite a usable sRGB monitor. But a true sRGB monitor is still a better idea. It leaves less room for error.

2) Do you think the LG's colors will be good enough for my purposes? After some research I convinced myself that these TN based panels will be sufficient, but the wide color gamut stuff messes a bit up with this

I think so, but the sRGB ASUS VW222u is probably a better choice for your purposes.

Thanks

I might be a bit picky, but I think the VW222U's design is a bit boring - I guess I'm a fan of the glossy bezel trend Do you know of any monitor with the qualities of the ASUS, but with a glossy bezel?

 

[MRIM]

Originally posted by: xtknight
I'll be interested to hear what monitor you settle on. Granted NEC does have some QC difficulties although you will be hard-pressed to find IPS panels in too many other places. Planar, DoubleSight, and LaCie have some IPS panels you can try. Not all of them have the calibration flexibility that the NEC has. DoubleSight's isn't available as the new IPS model is coming out, and Planar's PX2611W lacks the A-TW polarizer.

Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed since I did a fair amount of research and concluded that the 2490 was the best overall technology. It really is a nice monitor aside from the issues I posted about, and I even vacillated for a awhile about returning it for a refund. But then I visited a website with some high-contrast pattern in the background and the monitor started whining. That and the blueish color-cast on the left side are just not things I want to put up with daily for a monitor that I expect to last quite a few years.

At this point I'm leaning toward just going back to my old Hitachi CRT and waiting for something better to come along. If I do end up buying something (the DoubleSight sounds interesting if they release a new 24" model with A-TW polarizer) I'll post about it here. I'm crossing my fingers for some SED/FED/OLED developments in the coming months.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: T0bias

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: T0bias
1) Is the LG monitor's wide color gamut a bad thing compared with the more common sRGB when working with photoshop and creating websites?

Well yes, it is. But you could use the included ICC profile on the CD with Photoshop and you would have quite a usable sRGB monitor. But a true sRGB monitor is still a better idea. It leaves less room for error.

2) Do you think the LG's colors will be good enough for my purposes? After some research I convinced myself that these TN based panels will be sufficient, but the wide color gamut stuff messes a bit up with this

I think so, but the sRGB ASUS VW222u is probably a better choice for your purposes.

Thanks

I might be a bit picky, but I think the VW222U's design is a bit boring - I guess I'm a fan of the glossy bezel trend Do you know of any monitor with the qualities of the ASUS, but with a glossy bezel?

I would avoid the Dell UltraSharp SP2208WFP, but the HP w2207 and Gateway HD2200 are glossy/standard gamut and should be good. I haven't seen tests on them and I have heard of backlight bleeding on the HP w2207. But the w2207 had Samsung and LG 22" panels, better than CMO and AUO for color quality.

I generally go off of pro reviews from X-Bit Labs, Tom's Hardware, and prad (maybe others), although there are none that I know of for these LCDs, but if you are interested in buying one you can check out HardForum for user reviews of them. What I would do is find one at a local brick-and-mortar store so that you could return it. What's available locally may influence which one you have to choose, but I would try the Gateway first personally because of its nice feature set.

Apparently the HD2200 doesn't get glowing grayscale results. That doesn't mean it's worse than others, necessarily, as it is a TN too, but I would stick with the VW222u for now (actually not great in itself but not bad after lowering contrast). If you don't like that idea then you could consider getting a calibrator which is a good idea anyway. I heard Spyder 2 had issues with glossy panels but the i1 Display 2 ("Eye One Display 2") from Pantone or X-Rite/Gretag MacBeth is a great package. I am not sure if the Spyder 3 colorimeter still has problems with glossy panels.

Don't worry about the ComputerShopper review saying the 72% gamut is not suitable for "critical color work". That's a total lie, because 72% gamut monitors better match the sRGB space for the web and most material out there today. Wide gamut is only better in niche environments where the printing workflow is set up properly. If you use a wide gamut display with no profiling, your sRGB users (95% of the web) are going to see a dull and lifeless image.

 

[T0bias]

I would avoid the Dell UltraSharp SP2208WFP, but the HP w2207 and Gateway HD2200 are glossy/standard gamut and should be good. I haven't seen tests on them and I have heard of backlight bleeding on the HP w2207. But the w2207 had Samsung and LG 22" panels, better than CMO and AUO for color quality.

I generally go off of pro reviews from X-Bit Labs, Tom's Hardware, and prad (maybe others), although there are none that I know of for these LCDs, but if you are interested in buying one you can check out HardForum for user reviews of them. What I would do is find one at a local brick-and-mortar store so that you could return it. What's available locally may influence which one you have to choose, but I would try the Gateway first personally because of its nice feature set.

Apparently the HD2200 doesn't get glowing grayscale results. That doesn't mean it's worse than others, necessarily, as it is a TN too, but I would stick with the VW222u for now (actually not great in itself but not bad after lowering contrast). If you don't like that idea then you could consider getting a calibrator which is a good idea anyway. I heard Spyder 2 had issues with glossy panels but the i1 Display 2 ("Eye One Display 2") from Pantone or X-Rite/Gretag MacBeth is a great package. I am not sure if the Spyder 3 colorimeter still has problems with glossy panels.

Don't worry about the ComputerShopper review saying the 72% gamut is not suitable for "critical color work". That's a total lie, because 72% gamut monitors better match the sRGB space for the web and most material out there today. Wide gamut is only better in niche environments where the printing workflow is set up properly. If you use a wide gamut display with no profiling, your sRGB users (95% of the web) are going to see a dull and lifeless image.

I actually meant piano black bezel only and not a glossy screen coating (I prefer matte coating), sorry if I was unclear It's purely due to aestethic reasons when I hesitate about the Asus. But I think I'm gonna take it anyway if this monitor really has the upper hand in picture quality together with no panel lottery, compared with for example different Samsung models..

I don't think Gateway monitors are available here in Denmark.. at least I don't know of any shops with this brand.

 

[Ingenuitor]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Hello this is probably the most in depth thread I have ever read on LCD panels, very well written. I have certainly learned a lot in the past few hours of reading. I find the task of selecting monitor(s) daunting at this point.

What would you recommend for a fulltime graphic designer that is also a software programmer and a part time photographer? I need to buy three monitors and the ideal in my mind would be three 24"+ maybe 27"+ that can be rotated easily for reviewing very long coded documents of programming and high resolution portrait images.

All this will be mounted on a tri monitor mount and attached to an ergonomic pneumatic desk unit. I assume at least $1000 each for the panels but would like to pay less if I can.

Any recommendations? Thank you for your time.

The LCD2490WUXi I think is definitely worth it for you. These LCDs will handle anything you throw at them. I wouldn't get the 26" unless you do wide gamut worked. You should be able to get a better deal on the LCD24 than on Newegg.

I wanted to thank you for leading me down this NEC path, I feel really confident I now have selected the best I can find for my business. I believe these will last for many years and help me increase productivity towards the future.

The LCD2490WUXi / SV looks like a great monitor for the money, now I'm just trying to find the best deal on three. So far onsale.com seems to have the best deals. With an instant $208 discount for 3 @ $891.99 each. The one big question I have is do I need one with the SV kit that's only $100 instant discount for that one, bringing it to $1199 each.? Or am I better off buying that elsewhere for the savings of $307.01? Maybe eBay has some kits for sale? This again is something I know little if anything about.

Why not the 26" again, it's only $100 more. What are my cons on that one, Called NEC and they said they are the same spec, the 26" is just bigger.

Thanks again.

 

[MRIM]

Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
I wanted to thank you for leading me down this NEC path, I feel really confident I now have selected the best I can find for my business. I believe these will last for many years and help me increase productivity towards the future.

The LCD2490WUXi / SV looks like a great monitor for the money, now I'm just trying to find the best deal on three. So far onsale.com seems to have the best deals. With an instant $208 discount for 3 @ $891.99 each. The one big question I have is do I need one with the SV kit that's only $100 instant discount for that one, bringing it to $1199 each.? Or am I better off buying that elsewhere for the savings of $307.01? Maybe eBay has some kits for sale? This again is something I know little if anything about.

Why not the 26" again, it's only $100 more. What are my cons on that one, Called NEC and they said they are the same spec, the 26" is just bigger.

Thanks again.

The 2690 is an Adobe RGB monitor. Adobe RGB is a wide-gamut color space that is used mostly by people in the photography/print industries since it more closely captures the range of tones available in print inks. The disadvantage of this in the case of the 2690 is that most computer graphics (hence most of the stuff you'll probably be looking at on the monitor) are created in the sRGB color space (which is lower-gamut). This means that the monitor is expecting a certain color encoding (Adobe RGB) and will be fed a different color encoding (from the sRGB graphics on the web and such) most of the time, so colors will look a bit off by default.

The 2690 has an sRGB mode but this mode cannot be calibrated with the SpectraView software. So unless you know that you want/need the specific advantages of a wide-gamut monitor it's probably more of a hassle for you than a benefit. Also, the 2690 is 26" but has the same number of pixels as the 2490. This means that it has lower actual resolution (DPI): the pixels are bigger.

Anyway, if you do buy the 2490 please post here and let us know your findings. I have a thread here where I posted my experience with my 2490s along with a couple of pictures noting some problems. If it turns out yours doesn't have those problems I'd love to know where you bought it from.

 

[BDawg]

I bought a Samsung LN40A550 to use as my monitor. It's a *little* big right now, but will be better when I move my computer and use it as a TV and monitor.

 

[Ingenuitor]

Originally posted by: MRIM

Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
I wanted to thank you for leading me down this NEC path, I feel really confident I now have selected the best I can find for my business. I believe these will last for many years and help me increase productivity towards the future.

The LCD2490WUXi / SV looks like a great monitor for the money, now I'm just trying to find the best deal on three. So far onsale.com seems to have the best deals. With an instant $208 discount for 3 @ $891.99 each. The one big question I have is do I need one with the SV kit that's only $100 instant discount for that one, bringing it to $1199 each.? Or am I better off buying that elsewhere for the savings of $307.01? Maybe eBay has some kits for sale? This again is something I know little if anything about.

Why not the 26" again, it's only $100 more. What are my cons on that one, Called NEC and they said they are the same spec, the 26" is just bigger.

Thanks again.

The 2690 is an Adobe RGB monitor. Adobe RGB is a wide-gamut color space that is used mostly by people in the photography/print industries since it more closely captures the range of tones available in print inks. The disadvantage of this in the case of the 2690 is that most computer graphics (hence most of the stuff you'll probably be looking at on the monitor) are created in the sRGB color space (which is lower-gamut). This means that the monitor is expecting a certain color encoding (Adobe RGB) and will be fed a different color encoding (from the sRGB graphics on the web and such) most of the time, so colors will look a bit off by default.

The 2690 has an sRGB mode but this mode cannot be calibrated with the SpectraView software. So unless you know that you want/need the specific advantages of a wide-gamut monitor it's probably more of a hassle for you than a benefit. Also, the 2690 is 26" but has the same number of pixels as the 2490. This means that it has lower actual resolution (DPI): the pixels are bigger.

Anyway, if you do buy the 2490 please post here and let us know your findings. I have a thread here where I posted my experience with my 2490s along with a couple of pictures noting some problems. If it turns out yours doesn't have those problems I'd love to know where you bought it from.

Hmmm... very interesting. I guess the 24's should be the way to go then. I don't think you can find a perfect monitor on the planet, by nature we are not perfect, this is why we have lawyers lol. I think everything has some sort of imperfection. So I need to look at the pros and cons and decide if the issue(s) will really affect my work or productivity. Hence will it increase my revenues or will I lose money by owning / using it. I feel in this case the usage of these monitors should increase my revenues enough to pay for itself in less than 6 months.

To me that is a wise investment, that is if; nothing else is available for a lesser price and has better quality. I was originally looking at Dell's and found way way to many negatives with those at about the same price. I'm not really sure what else to go with, so if time is the factor I could wait a little longer, but not much as my desk unit will arrive with-in 4-8 weeks.

 

[Gandraw]

I remember there used to be a really nice web page by a major display manufacturer that had a ton of flash animations explaining the technology behind LCDs. I can't remember the URL, but does anyone here know what site I'm talking about and has maybe made a link?

 

[kserocks]

I was wondering if anyone had any experience (at least seeing it somewhere) with the new monitor, AOC 2230fm. The whole multi-media thing is a bit of a gimmick, I believe, but how does it function as a monitor. Would common use, some movie watching, and light gaming be doable on it. Also, the w2207h isn't listed in any section of the original post (other than noting that the l227wt outclasses it). I was looking to get it, but now am having second thoughts, any opinions.

 

[rxblitzrx]

To Xtknight or other experts: My company is giving me an allowance to buy a LCD. If price were no object, can you recommend something for reading text (internet) and reading X-ray imaging (mostly black and white). Grey scale would be a major issue to see the tiny differences. Thanks in advance!

Also, can you list any retail stores that would carry the "recommendation" so I can see a display model before I buy?

 

[darckhart]

Two questions:
1. scaling : is it possible to force "center" mode on the monitor, or is that usually taken care of by the video card drivers? (saw my cousin playing with his x360 hooked up and black borders around the image.)
2. any news on dell 2408wfp A01 and the input lag issue?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: T0bias

I would avoid the Dell UltraSharp SP2208WFP, but the HP w2207 and Gateway HD2200 are glossy/standard gamut and should be good. I haven't seen tests on them and I have heard of backlight bleeding on the HP w2207. But the w2207 had Samsung and LG 22" panels, better than CMO and AUO for color quality.

I generally go off of pro reviews from X-Bit Labs, Tom's Hardware, and prad (maybe others), although there are none that I know of for these LCDs, but if you are interested in buying one you can check out HardForum for user reviews of them. What I would do is find one at a local brick-and-mortar store so that you could return it. What's available locally may influence which one you have to choose, but I would try the Gateway first personally because of its nice feature set.

Apparently the HD2200 doesn't get glowing grayscale results. That doesn't mean it's worse than others, necessarily, as it is a TN too, but I would stick with the VW222u for now (actually not great in itself but not bad after lowering contrast). If you don't like that idea then you could consider getting a calibrator which is a good idea anyway. I heard Spyder 2 had issues with glossy panels but the i1 Display 2 ("Eye One Display 2") from Pantone or X-Rite/Gretag MacBeth is a great package. I am not sure if the Spyder 3 colorimeter still has problems with glossy panels.

Don't worry about the ComputerShopper review saying the 72% gamut is not suitable for "critical color work". That's a total lie, because 72% gamut monitors better match the sRGB space for the web and most material out there today. Wide gamut is only better in niche environments where the printing workflow is set up properly. If you use a wide gamut display with no profiling, your sRGB users (95% of the web) are going to see a dull and lifeless image.

I actually meant piano black bezel only and not a glossy screen coating (I prefer matte coating), sorry if I was unclear It's purely due to aestethic reasons when I hesitate about the Asus. But I think I'm gonna take it anyway if this monitor really has the upper hand in picture quality together with no panel lottery, compared with for example different Samsung models..

I don't think Gateway monitors are available here in Denmark.. at least I don't know of any shops with this brand.

Ah I see. Then maybe you like the design of the VX2255wmb better. That's actually a good value photo editing LCD.

IMO forget the Samsungs, as half of them are plagued by the blue cast problem.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Ingenuitor

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
Hello this is probably the most in depth thread I have ever read on LCD panels, very well written. I have certainly learned a lot in the past few hours of reading. I find the task of selecting monitor(s) daunting at this point.

What would you recommend for a fulltime graphic designer that is also a software programmer and a part time photographer? I need to buy three monitors and the ideal in my mind would be three 24"+ maybe 27"+ that can be rotated easily for reviewing very long coded documents of programming and high resolution portrait images.

All this will be mounted on a tri monitor mount and attached to an ergonomic pneumatic desk unit. I assume at least $1000 each for the panels but would like to pay less if I can.

Any recommendations? Thank you for your time.

The LCD2490WUXi I think is definitely worth it for you. These LCDs will handle anything you throw at them. I wouldn't get the 26" unless you do wide gamut worked. You should be able to get a better deal on the LCD24 than on Newegg.

I wanted to thank you for leading me down this NEC path, I feel really confident I now have selected the best I can find for my business. I believe these will last for many years and help me increase productivity towards the future.

The LCD2490WUXi / SV looks like a great monitor for the money, now I'm just trying to find the best deal on three. So far onsale.com seems to have the best deals. With an instant $208 discount for 3 @ $891.99 each. The one big question I have is do I need one with the SV kit that's only $100 instant discount for that one, bringing it to $1199 each.? Or am I better off buying that elsewhere for the savings of $307.01? Maybe eBay has some kits for sale? This again is something I know little if anything about.

Why not the 26" again, it's only $100 more. What are my cons on that one, Called NEC and they said they are the same spec, the 26" is just bigger.

Thanks again.

You only need one SV kit to calibrate all three (well I guess TBH legally I'm not sure).

You can get them all cheap from one place and then just order the SV kit from necdisplay.com. At least if you're based in North America you can do that, but Europe has some different deal going on where you absolutely need the SV models and can't buy the kit separately.

MRIM detailed the 26" issue perfectly.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Ingenuitor

Originally posted by: MRIM

Originally posted by: Ingenuitor
I wanted to thank you for leading me down this NEC path, I feel really confident I now have selected the best I can find for my business. I believe these will last for many years and help me increase productivity towards the future.

The LCD2490WUXi / SV looks like a great monitor for the money, now I'm just trying to find the best deal on three. So far onsale.com seems to have the best deals. With an instant $208 discount for 3 @ $891.99 each. The one big question I have is do I need one with the SV kit that's only $100 instant discount for that one, bringing it to $1199 each.? Or am I better off buying that elsewhere for the savings of $307.01? Maybe eBay has some kits for sale? This again is something I know little if anything about.

Why not the 26" again, it's only $100 more. What are my cons on that one, Called NEC and they said they are the same spec, the 26" is just bigger.

Thanks again.

The 2690 is an Adobe RGB monitor. Adobe RGB is a wide-gamut color space that is used mostly by people in the photography/print industries since it more closely captures the range of tones available in print inks. The disadvantage of this in the case of the 2690 is that most computer graphics (hence most of the stuff you'll probably be looking at on the monitor) are created in the sRGB color space (which is lower-gamut). This means that the monitor is expecting a certain color encoding (Adobe RGB) and will be fed a different color encoding (from the sRGB graphics on the web and such) most of the time, so colors will look a bit off by default.

The 2690 has an sRGB mode but this mode cannot be calibrated with the SpectraView software. So unless you know that you want/need the specific advantages of a wide-gamut monitor it's probably more of a hassle for you than a benefit. Also, the 2690 is 26" but has the same number of pixels as the 2490. This means that it has lower actual resolution (DPI): the pixels are bigger.

Anyway, if you do buy the 2490 please post here and let us know your findings. I have a thread here where I posted my experience with my 2490s along with a couple of pictures noting some problems. If it turns out yours doesn't have those problems I'd love to know where you bought it from.

Hmmm... very interesting. I guess the 24's should be the way to go then. I don't think you can find a perfect monitor on the planet, by nature we are not perfect, this is why we have lawyers lol. I think everything has some sort of imperfection. So I need to look at the pros and cons and decide if the issue(s) will really affect my work or productivity. Hence will it increase my revenues or will I lose money by owning / using it. I feel in this case the usage of these monitors should increase my revenues enough to pay for itself in less than 6 months.

To me that is a wise investment, that is if; nothing else is available for a lesser price and has better quality. I was originally looking at Dell's and found way way to many negatives with those at about the same price. I'm not really sure what else to go with, so if time is the factor I could wait a little longer, but not much as my desk unit will arrive with-in 4-8 weeks.

I think MRIM's complaints are valid. I don't like it that the NECs have these imperfections. I hope he gets the problems rectified. I think that they are the best you can find though for big, standard gamut monitors. The Apple Cinema 23" and 30" may be alternatives, although I am not sure if Apple has moved any of their LCDs to wide gamut yet.

 

[brettjrob]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: brettjrob
Like a few others, I'm finding the decision-making process for a new LCD maddening in comparison to the rest of my planned new rig.

I'm currently on an extremely crappy LG L1715S display, so absolutely anything will be an upgrade. The problem is, one of my main uses will be photo editing, in addition to gaming, web design, and normal use. I'm a college student on a limited budget, and it seems virtually impossible to graduate to something better than a TN panel without going beyond my means.

I'm almost set on grabbing the Acer AL2216Wbd on NewEgg for $209; reason being that I've reached the conclusion that a high-quality monitor larger than 19" sufficient for pro photo editing is simply not within my reach ($400-450 max), so I may as well get something basic to hold me over for a few years until that changes. A few questions, though:

1. For those who follow this stuff, would you expect better-quality panels to come down in price significantly over the next few years? For example, is it reasonable to expect to be able to pick up a 24" IPS or VA panel in the $300-400 range within 2-3 years?

For VA panels you already can and have been able to (Soyo 24", Westinghouse L2410NM). I would never expect a 23"+ IPS panel for under $500.

Ugh, this just doesn't get easy no matter how much research I do. I still haven't pulled the trigger on a 22" TN panel yet because 1920x1200 sounds so much more appealing. Yet, all I hear about the 24" TN panels is how the viewing angle problem is exacerbated by their size, so that doesn't sound like a good route for me to take if I'm going to be doing photo editing on a regular basis.

You mention two cheap 24" VA panels; the Soyo I can't find, and the Westinghouse has terrible reviews on NewEgg claiming common breakage within months of purchase. It's ridiculously cheap, though, at $399, so it's not exactly surprising to hear that it's too good to be true. Are there any decent 24" VA panels in the $450-550 range? That would be stretching it for me, but if I could get something good in that price range I might just hold off on upgrading/replacing my rig to compensate. However, my brief hunting online today yields disappointing results: it seems there's not much to fill the gap between the $399 Westinghouse POS and the much pricier ($650+) Dell and Samsung VA's. Am I missing anything?

Alternatively, are there *any* 24" TN models you could suggest that would be at least borderline-acceptable for photo editing?

 

[MraK]

Maybe someone could help me out with a problem I had recently experienced. its dealing with my new monitor from Hewlett Packard and my PS3.

I have posted a thread in the "Console Gaming" section

experience with PS3 and 24"inch monitor

Since I came to see that I would be better off with another monitor, what other monitor could be best to solve my problem, that's if I cant do anthing else but get another monitor??

thanks in advance!

 

[T0bias]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Ah I see. Then maybe you like the design of the VX2255wmb better. That's actually a good value photo editing LCD.

IMO forget the Samsungs, as half of them are plagued by the blue cast problem.

Actually I almost settled for the Viewsonic at first, but I then discovered that the nvidia driver's "keep aspect ratio" setting isn't working for this monitor for some reason. That unables me to play older games, and play games in lower resolutions than native (to gain some performance).. so unfortunately I can't go with this monitor.

Everything else about it seemed perfect though - height-adjustment, design, picture quality - so that's a really annoying detail

I guess the only monitor left in the bag is the ASUS Afterall the design is clearly not as important as the picture quality.