[Retired] The LCD Thread

[BRDiger]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: BRDiger
Any chance you might review the V7 Videoseven D24W33?
One of the cheapest 24" you can get in germany.
It had a short, but promissing review at gamestar.de which is, unfortunately lacking in details...

Very likely not, as I don't receive review samples and I wouldn't choose that brand, but that doesn't mean it's not a good LCD.

Firstwell, thanks for the swift answer! I really appreciate hanging around in the forums and all of your explinations...
But i fear, there is still a lot, which i can´t evaluate...
the pros of the LCD i meantioned above, is clearly it´s size , price and speed (2ms)
on the other hand there is still the cons...
according to the sites i ´ve visited it has pretty poor brightness in the test ( about 190cd/m2) and contrast (about 670:1).
But it´s fast and has the HDMI connector i´m looking at.
So, how would you translate this numbers for a guy, buying his first LCD...
Would a 22" (Samsung 2263UX) be more suitable for a gamer?
And are the cons above really no go criteria?

 

[Josh7289]

Quick question. I run my LCD monitor at 1280 x 1024 75 Hz. But what happens when I play, for example, a game locked to 60 fps? Are 15 frames doubled every second to get the refresh rate up to 75 Hz?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Gandraw
I remember there used to be a really nice web page by a major display manufacturer that had a ton of flash animations explaining the technology behind LCDs. I can't remember the URL, but does anyone here know what site I'm talking about and has maybe made a link?

Almost all that I know of have Flash animations or explanations on their site.

Samsung TFT-LCD (Samsung.com -> Business -> TFT/LCD)
AU Optronics
Chi Mei Optoelectronics
LG Philips LCD
Chunghwa Picture Tubes
Hannstar

Check on the above sites. http://flatpanels.dk also has some stuff.

Originally posted by: kserocks
I was wondering if anyone had any experience (at least seeing it somewhere) with the new monitor, AOC 2230fm. The whole multi-media thing is a bit of a gimmick, I believe, but how does it function as a monitor. Would common use, some movie watching, and light gaming be doable on it. Also, the w2207h isn't listed in any section of the original post (other than noting that the l227wt outclasses it). I was looking to get it, but now am having second thoughts, any opinions.

The 2230fm is a TN panel. Those activities probably would be doable but I'm willing to place a bet the L227 will remain the best 22" out there. It has great color accuracy, fast response time, and a glossy panel. That is the best of all worlds IMO.

Did the w2207h have something you liked that other models didn't? (HDMI can be converted to DVI directly, at least when you're dealing with a video card.)

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
To Xtknight or other experts: My company is giving me an allowance to buy a LCD. If price were no object, can you recommend something for reading text (internet) and reading X-ray imaging (mostly black and white). Grey scale would be a major issue to see the tiny differences. Thanks in advance!

Also, can you list any retail stores that would carry the "recommendation" so I can see a display model before I buy?

If money were no object, you'd check NEC's Medical line here: http://www.necdisplay.com/Prod...4156-8aff-879dca557cdd

I think the above are color monitors too, but I'm not sure.

Otherwise, the NEC LCD2490WUXi-BK-SV and NEC LCD2690WUXi-BK-SV are decent choices too.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: darckhart
Two questions:
1. scaling : is it possible to force "center" mode on the monitor, or is that usually taken care of by the video card drivers? (saw my cousin playing with his x360 hooked up and black borders around the image.)

Some monitors will allow you to center an image that has a lower resolution than the native. Sometimes that centering is done by the sending device. It actually sends a native picture, but encapsulates the lower resolution image in that bigger native signal. Therefore the monitor knows no different. It gets a native resolution picture that contains black borders.

2. any news on dell 2408wfp A01 and the input lag issue?

I've no idea but you can check TFTcentral and HardForum. Personally, I doubt it will lower the lag at all. I will recommend it regardless because I don't believe the input lag is serious enough.

 

[kserocks]

The 2230fm is a TN panel. Those activities probably would be doable but I'm willing to place a bet the L227 will remain the best 22" out there. It has great color accuracy, fast response time, and a glossy panel. That is the best of all worlds IMO.

Did the w2207h have something you liked that other models didn't? (HDMI can be converted to DVI directly, at least when you're dealing with a video card.)

I do like the usb's (although they are not 100% necessary, I understand) and the look of the w2207h. While I understand that the l227 is better, I was wondering how much better in all categories. If all of the testing revealed a slight advantage in these categories (other than the response time, which the l227 seems to dominate everything in, from what I've read), I would opt for the w2207h, but if they were relatively large differences, then obviously, aesthetics and usb's would not be nearly enough to get the w2207h instead. I've also heard that the w2207h is not as good as the original w2207, which also started to lure me to the l227 or vx2255wmb (which is 250 on newegg right now AR, and seems to be very good, considering gaming isn't a huge issue, since there will be no competitive gaming, just light gaming, most of which isn't even online).

 

[xtknight]

Many displays were added it to the OP (the most interesting of which is the Lenovo L220X, a 22" S-PVA). The DoubleSight DS-263N has been removed until a new 25.5" H-IPS from them is available. And the photo editing section is now more lenient because I realize not everyone wants to pay $500+ for a photo editing LCD. I added two TNs to the end.

Originally posted by: brettjrob

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: brettjrob
Like a few others, I'm finding the decision-making process for a new LCD maddening in comparison to the rest of my planned new rig.

I'm currently on an extremely crappy LG L1715S display, so absolutely anything will be an upgrade. The problem is, one of my main uses will be photo editing, in addition to gaming, web design, and normal use. I'm a college student on a limited budget, and it seems virtually impossible to graduate to something better than a TN panel without going beyond my means.

I'm almost set on grabbing the Acer AL2216Wbd on NewEgg for $209; reason being that I've reached the conclusion that a high-quality monitor larger than 19" sufficient for pro photo editing is simply not within my reach ($400-450 max), so I may as well get something basic to hold me over for a few years until that changes. A few questions, though:

1. For those who follow this stuff, would you expect better-quality panels to come down in price significantly over the next few years? For example, is it reasonable to expect to be able to pick up a 24" IPS or VA panel in the $300-400 range within 2-3 years?

For VA panels you already can and have been able to (Soyo 24", Westinghouse L2410NM). I would never expect a 23"+ IPS panel for under $500.

Ugh, this just doesn't get easy no matter how much research I do. I still haven't pulled the trigger on a 22" TN panel yet because 1920x1200 sounds so much more appealing. Yet, all I hear about the 24" TN panels is how the viewing angle problem is exacerbated by their size, so that doesn't sound like a good route for me to take if I'm going to be doing photo editing on a regular basis.

You mention two cheap 24" VA panels; the Soyo I can't find, and the Westinghouse has terrible reviews on NewEgg claiming common breakage within months of purchase. It's ridiculously cheap, though, at $399, so it's not exactly surprising to hear that it's too good to be true. Are there any decent 24" VA panels in the $450-550 range? That would be stretching it for me, but if I could get something good in that price range I might just hold off on upgrading/replacing my rig to compensate. However, my brief hunting online today yields disappointing results: it seems there's not much to fill the gap between the $399 Westinghouse POS and the much pricier ($650+) Dell and Samsung VA's. Am I missing anything?

You're not missing much. Except maybe the ViewSonic VX2435wm. You can give the S-PVA DoubleSight 24" DS-245W (not DS-243N) a try, just keep in mind I haven't heard a single thing about it and it's out of stock at Newegg atm.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824185005

The VX2435wm is probably the best idea, if you can find it. And it's not that cheap everywhere but I managed to snag it for $550 AR from Newegg awhile ago.
http://www.google.com/products...cid=791472491961708223

And then there's the HP LP2465 at $600 USD. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824176059

Alternatively, are there *any* 24" TN models you could suggest that would be at least borderline-acceptable for photo editing?

The Samsung 245BW is what I would suggest here. The BenQ G2400WD might be good too, but I am more sure about the Samsung for photo editing specifically. The BenQ is better for multimedia due to better scaling options.

Since I'm not sure how tight the gamma curve is on the DoubleSight, your best bet is the HP LP2465 (VA, decent gamma, good viewing angle) or 245BW (TN, great gamma, poorer viewing angle).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: MrAK
Maybe someone could help me out with a problem I had recently experienced. its dealing with my new monitor from Hewlett Packard and my PS3.

I have posted a thread in the "Console Gaming" section

experience with PS3 and 24"inch monitor

Since I came to see that I would be better off with another monitor, what other monitor could be best to solve my problem, that's if I cant do anthing else but get another monitor??

thanks in advance!

Yes, it seems like you're dealing with scaling. But it would help to try other scaling options in the monitor's setup menu, or take a photo of the problem. Otherwise we are stabbing in the dark.

Originally posted by: T0bias

Originally posted by: xtknight
Ah I see. Then maybe you like the design of the VX2255wmb better. That's actually a good value photo editing LCD.

IMO forget the Samsungs, as half of them are plagued by the blue cast problem.

Actually I almost settled for the Viewsonic at first, but I then discovered that the nvidia driver's "keep aspect ratio" setting isn't working for this monitor for some reason. That unables me to play older games, and play games in lower resolutions than native (to gain some performance).. so unfortunately I can't go with this monitor.

Everything else about it seemed perfect though - height-adjustment, design, picture quality - so that's a really annoying detail

I guess the only monitor left in the bag is the ASUS Afterall the design is clearly not as important as the picture quality.

I managed to recommend the Samsung 2053BW for Multimedia and Office Work but I still don't like it for photo editing because Samsung pulls panel switch-a-roos without notice and the inferior panels have a blue cast. It may not be so bad if you have a colorimeter.

I don't think the NVIDIA thing is because of the monitor. I know that certain NVIDIA cards do have trouble scaling any monitor, though. I don't think the VX22 has any options on the monitor so that would indeed be a necessity.

There's the Lenovo L220X too, I'm not sure if that was in your price/availability range?

Otherwise, the ASUS is the best option. I don't think that you will notice the bezel after using it, but who am I to tell you what design is good for you? You may not want to see how my desk is laid out sometimes.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BRDiger
Firstwell, thanks for the swift answer! I really appreciate hanging around in the forums and all of your explinations...
But i fear, there is still a lot, which i can´t evaluate...
the pros of the LCD i meantioned above, is clearly it´s size , price and speed (2ms)
on the other hand there is still the cons...
according to the sites i ´ve visited it has pretty poor brightness in the test ( about 190cd/m2) and contrast (about 670:1).
But it´s fast and has the HDMI connector i´m looking at.
So, how would you translate this numbers for a guy, buying his first LCD...
Would a 22" (Samsung 2263UX) be more suitable for a gamer?
And are the cons above really no go criteria?

Where did you find reviews of it?

I don't like the Samsungs too much because they have lots of input lag. That's not good for games.

I don't think the Videoseven is a bad idea, I just don't really know anything about it. It's not a very common brand here. It could be a great LCD. To stay on the safe side you can stick to the ones I recommend in the OP, if they are available in your location.

For instance, you can try:

BenQ G2400W/G2400WD
LG L227WT
Samsung 245BW
HP w2408h

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Josh7289
Quick question. I run my LCD monitor at 1280 x 1024 75 Hz. But what happens when I play, for example, a game locked to 60 fps? Are 15 frames doubled every second to get the refresh rate up to 75 Hz?

That depends on the monitor. Sometimes it will truly drive the crystals at 75 Hz and deliver a smoother image, sometimes it will cause response time acceleration issues, and sometimes it will cause bad and obvious jittering and lag (the intercalation of frames to reach 75 Hz).

You should only trust 75 Hz is being sent to the LCD if that's what you see in the OSD. Otherwise, sometimes Windows lies and says it's running at 75 Hz when it isn't (only the internal GDI windows painting functions are, which is hardly an advantage).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: kserocks

The 2230fm is a TN panel. Those activities probably would be doable but I'm willing to place a bet the L227 will remain the best 22" out there. It has great color accuracy, fast response time, and a glossy panel. That is the best of all worlds IMO.

Did the w2207h have something you liked that other models didn't? (HDMI can be converted to DVI directly, at least when you're dealing with a video card.)

I do like the usb's (although they are not 100% necessary, I understand) and the look of the w2207h. While I understand that the l227 is better, I was wondering how much better in all categories. If all of the testing revealed a slight advantage in these categories (other than the response time, which the l227 seems to dominate everything in, from what I've read), I would opt for the w2207h, but if they were relatively large differences, then obviously, aesthetics and usb's would not be nearly enough to get the w2207h instead. I've also heard that the w2207h is not as good as the original w2207, which also started to lure me to the l227 or vx2255wmb (which is 250 on newegg right now AR, and seems to be very good, considering gaming isn't a huge issue, since there will be no competitive gaming, just light gaming, most of which isn't even online).

I've heard the original w2207 wasn't as good as the w2007 either, so I don't have high hopes for the w2207h.

Like I say though I just don't know, I've never seen the w2207h or reviews of it. On the other hand, the L227WT has quite good reviews everywhere I see (except DigitalVersus who seems to have an inflated input lag value for this LCD).

Personally I think the L227 is better for anyone than the w2207h, as you can get USB hubs elsewhere. Yeah, it's kind of cool to have USB and HDMI but not if it means watered-down image quality and poor quality control like backlight bleeding (I heard a lot about that on the original w2207). That's the OEM way: pack it with features and leave it low on image quality.

Keep that in mind but I think the L227 is a good overall package as well. The VX is a great economical option too.

AFAICT the L227 beats the w2207 on all image quality facets, including response time, backlight bleeding, and gamut.

 

[kserocks]

Thank you, I do agree that features like those are no replacement for image quality, and if the differences are as large as you say they are, I will steer clear of the w2207h, and opt for one of the other 2 (depending on whether or not i wanna spend the extra 60 dollars).

 

[Josh7289]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Josh7289
Quick question. I run my LCD monitor at 1280 x 1024 75 Hz. But what happens when I play, for example, a game locked to 60 fps? Are 15 frames doubled every second to get the refresh rate up to 75 Hz?

That depends on the monitor. Sometimes it will truly drive the crystals at 75 Hz and deliver a smoother image, sometimes it will cause response time acceleration issues, and sometimes it will cause bad and obvious jittering and lag (the intercalation of frames to reach 75 Hz).

You should only trust 75 Hz is being sent to the LCD if that's what you see in the OSD. Otherwise, sometimes Windows lies and says it's running at 75 Hz when it isn't (only the internal GDI windows painting functions are, which is hardly an advantage).

Oh, I'm 99% sure my monitor is being sent a 75 Hz signal and that the monitor is refreshing 75 times per second. My question is what happens when a game is running below 75 fps. Say, like 40 fps...or 60 fps... Like, before the 75 Hz signal is even sent out, something has to happen to bring the frames per second up from 40 or 60 to 75. So, what is it?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: kserocks
Thank you, I do agree that features like those are no replacement for image quality, and if the differences are as large as you say they are, I will steer clear of the w2207h, and opt for one of the other 2 (depending on whether or not i wanna spend the extra 60 dollars).

I will say that if it were me, I would be getting the LG L227WT.

Originally posted by: Josh7289

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Josh7289
Quick question. I run my LCD monitor at 1280 x 1024 75 Hz. But what happens when I play, for example, a game locked to 60 fps? Are 15 frames doubled every second to get the refresh rate up to 75 Hz?

That depends on the monitor. Sometimes it will truly drive the crystals at 75 Hz and deliver a smoother image, sometimes it will cause response time acceleration issues, and sometimes it will cause bad and obvious jittering and lag (the intercalation of frames to reach 75 Hz).

You should only trust 75 Hz is being sent to the LCD if that's what you see in the OSD. Otherwise, sometimes Windows lies and says it's running at 75 Hz when it isn't (only the internal GDI windows painting functions are, which is hardly an advantage).

Oh, I'm 99% sure my monitor is being sent a 75 Hz signal and that the monitor is refreshing 75 times per second. My question is what happens when a game is running below 75 fps. Say, like 40 fps...or 60 fps... Like, before the 75 Hz signal is even sent out, something has to happen to bring the frames per second up from 40 or 60 to 75. So, what is it?

Then you get partial frames and tearing because 40 FPS is distributed among 75 Hz. If you enable VSync then you only get half the refresh rate when you're below it. Triple buffering can complicate this matter. I think it then turns into the lowest reciprocal frame rate or something, but you can ask the video card forum about graphics card operation. Either way the monitor is being sent 75 Hz indefinitely, it's the video card that does whatever needs to be done if your monitor is doing a true 75 Hz.

 

[HMF]

Hi!

I have been reading this thread for some time now, and am on the verge of purchasing an LCD, my first! I am still using an ancient Samsung SyncMaster 955DF and wouldn't mind a little more desk space.

The monitor that I have been looking at is the BenQ G2400WD, which is suggested as a gaming monitor in the OP.

I am just trying to make sure that this is the right monitor for me.

I will be using it primarily for Games, multimedia (movies, tv shows, etc) and web browsing/IM'ing and whatnot, in that order.

Is this still the best choice for a 24" monitor for what I want to use it for?

For example, I have also been looking at the V2400W from BenQ as well, and I did not see it mentioned at all.

Also, I am wondering if there might be any offerings from NEC that might be worth looking at, as I have always been quite fond of NEC products, and have always wanted to own one myself.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[ThanatosGOD]

Hello there!

I purchased a NEC 20WMGX2 in early 2006, having first sought advice here. In time it developed some kind of 'stain' at the top edge of the screen, almost like a liquid had been dripping and left a mark. It was permanent and very irritating. Anyway I told NEC about it, sent it back, and they say that although its an irreparable fault, they don't make the NEC 20WMGX2 anymore or don't have stock.
Instead their offering me the LCD22WMGX to be delivered tomorrow. However they have said that if I'm not happy with it I can send it back and get a new 20WMGX2/Pro shipped in from Germany.
I'm not quite sure what to do, I really did like the 20WMGX2 even though I had to go through many units initially, due to backlight bleeding and suffer the weird stain for a while. But it is more than 2 years old, there must be superior alternatives now.
The LCD22WMGX is bigger, but has the same resolution and like all 22'' screens has a cheaper TN panel; but it does have HDMI input and allegedly quicker response time.

I should point out NEC service is brilliant. But I'm wondering whether they may be giving me an inferior product, should I ask them for something else in their range? They seem quite cooperative so far? Also whilst the widescreen resolution of 1680X1050 has been good, I wouldn't mind some more vertical space and if another 1920 x 1200 monitor had the same 1:1 scaling functions of the 20WMGX2 for games etc I would quite like that extra space for desktop work and movie use. Are there any really good NEC 24'' screens I could ask for?

In the end I probably wouldn't mind the MultiSync 20WGX²Pro if its the same or better than my original MultiSync 20WGX². But I would like to get something better if I can.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks

 

[T0bias]

Originally posted by: xtknight

I don't think the NVIDIA thing is because of the monitor. I know that certain NVIDIA cards do have trouble scaling any monitor, though. I don't think the VX22 has any options on the monitor so that would indeed be a necessity.

There's the Lenovo L220X too, I'm not sure if that was in your price/availability range?

Otherwise, the ASUS is the best option. I don't think that you will notice the bezel after using it, but who am I to tell you what design is good for you? You may not want to see how my desk is laid out sometimes.

As far as I can see the Lenovo's resolution is a step higher (1920*1080) - I think this resolution is too demanding for running the games properly. I think 1680*1050 will be fine.

After doing some research about the scaling problem, it seems that many people with different nvidia cards got problems with the viewsonic screen, so I think it's something with the nvidia driver not working with that particular monitor (or maybe all viewsonics).. I haven't seen others having problems with the scaling with other monitors.

I got a 8800GTS atm, and I really hope the scaling works with the ASUS.

Before I buy it I got a bit in doubt though. Of some reason I didn't realise that the HP w2207h got a nice stand with height-adjustment, so even though I intented to buy a third party height-adjustable stand for the ASUS, I am wondering how this HP monitor compares to the ASUS? I might have been too quick to say that I prefer matte coating, since I've actually never had any glass coated monitor
I just thought that a glossy coating might be unpleasant for general use, like web surfing, editing texts and photoshopping. I might be wrong, and you might only be able to tell me that I have to take a look on a glossy screen and find out what I think about the potential reflection issues - unless you think the ASUS delivers the best picture?

The problem with taking a look at such a glossy monitor is that it's probably gonna be impossible to judge in a store because of spotlights etc. - so I don't really know what to do. Moreover I'm not even sure if I can find this monitor in a "non-online" store..

Btw, thanks a lot for your help so far

 

[10e]

Originally posted by: kserocks
Thank you, I do agree that features like those are no replacement for image quality, and if the differences are as large as you say they are, I will steer clear of the w2207h, and opt for one of the other 2 (depending on whether or not i wanna spend the extra 60 dollars).

I'd recommend that. The original W2207 had a nice Samsung panel until the end of its production, and then it also had AUO and LG panels. This is not a horrible thing in itself, but HP, just like Samsung before it, did not calibrate the electronics to deal with the different panels properly in regards to color and overdrive, and ended up making a great monitor not so good.

The w2207h is the same thing, but with no Samsung panel at all, still poorly calibrated electronics, and an HDMI connector, from what I've heard. You'd be better of with the L227WTG-PF for sure, as XTKnight mentions.

 

[10e]

Originally posted by: HMF
Hi!

I have been reading this thread for some time now, and am on the verge of purchasing an LCD, my first! I am still using an ancient Samsung SyncMaster 955DF and wouldn't mind a little more desk space.

The monitor that I have been looking at is the BenQ G2400WD, which is suggested as a gaming monitor in the OP.

I am just trying to make sure that this is the right monitor for me.

I will be using it primarily for Games, multimedia (movies, tv shows, etc) and web browsing/IM'ing and whatnot, in that order.

Is this still the best choice for a 24" monitor for what I want to use it for?

For example, I have also been looking at the V2400W from BenQ as well, and I did not see it mentioned at all.

Also, I am wondering if there might be any offerings from NEC that might be worth looking at, as I have always been quite fond of NEC products, and have always wanted to own one myself.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

BenQ G2400WD and V2400W are essentially the same monitor in a different shell. The G2400WD allows VESA mounting whereas the V2400W does not. Both are improvements in panel quality over the older G2400W to a slight degree, with better blacks and similar viewing angles.

I have a V2400W now and I can say the contrast ratio is higher than the older G2400W by about 250:1 due to even deeper blacks, and more consistent brightness. The G2400WD should be the same, as I don't think AUO would make two almost identical 24" TN panels, and from the statistics, it sounds exactly the same as the V2400W.

I would lean towards the G2400WD vs. the V2400W though. The V2400W's offset stand sometimes is off angle too according to some HardForum users.

I think if you are really into aesthetics, the V2400W is the way to go, and if you are into saving a couple of $$$, it's better to go with the more plain and cheaper G2400WD.

 

[10e]

You may want to look at the BenQ FP241W/VW and you can get it from the store.benq.us for $499 and use a coupon code of "thankyou10" and get an additional 10% off. If the ugly, fat stand is not a problem for you, this is a good screen, and they've fixed the blackout issues with the June 2007 and later build dates, which you are guaranteed to get from their web site. According to users, their web sites policies exceed NewEgg's and most other online retailers, allowing a full satisfaction guarantee.

While the calibration over DVI is nothing to write home about, it is a lower lag alternative than the Soyo and the Westinghouse. I measured it vs. a CRT at 1920x1200 and 1920x1080 at average of under 10ms, so BenQ has done some serious work on the speed of this display. When the scaler gets employed this goes up to average of 30ms, which is still good, but can be counteracted by using video card scaling.

Alternatively, after calibration it is excellent, and it has useful connectivity with HDMI, component, VGA, and s-video/composite as well as DVI-D, and probably has the best aspect ratio scaling outside of the NEC LCD2xWUXI screens. It can do 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p very well, and has full PC aspect ratio scaling/support too.

It may not have the super contrast ratio of the Dell and Samsung (it's about 700 to 800:1 at best), but it is much lower lag, and it is a mature product that works very well with both PC and consoles, and it is standard gamut, which is better if you are editing sRGB images. I use mine for PC, PS3, and Xbox 360 and am very happy with it in general now.

It has that horrible stand, but it is probably a better, albeit slightly more expensive MVA choice over the other two here. I am also an owner of a Westinghouse L2410NM which I love dearly, but has broken down on me too, unfortunately. It is a very good monitor, but quality is definitely not a strong point it seems, and Westinghouse is simply a distribution point for it so their support of this screen is less than optimal.

Your other choice is the Dell, whose input lag apparently has gone down by 1.5 frames with the new "part number" revision, but this is one, so far unsubstantiated report, so I'm personally waiting myself to find out how true it is, because I've used a screen that had similar input lag, and it was fairly painful to me.

Originally posted by: brettjrob

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: brettjrob
Like a few others, I'm finding the decision-making process for a new LCD maddening in comparison to the rest of my planned new rig.

I'm currently on an extremely crappy LG L1715S display, so absolutely anything will be an upgrade. The problem is, one of my main uses will be photo editing, in addition to gaming, web design, and normal use. I'm a college student on a limited budget, and it seems virtually impossible to graduate to something better than a TN panel without going beyond my means.

I'm almost set on grabbing the Acer AL2216Wbd on NewEgg for $209; reason being that I've reached the conclusion that a high-quality monitor larger than 19" sufficient for pro photo editing is simply not within my reach ($400-450 max), so I may as well get something basic to hold me over for a few years until that changes. A few questions, though:

1. For those who follow this stuff, would you expect better-quality panels to come down in price significantly over the next few years? For example, is it reasonable to expect to be able to pick up a 24" IPS or VA panel in the $300-400 range within 2-3 years?

For VA panels you already can and have been able to (Soyo 24", Westinghouse L2410NM). I would never expect a 23"+ IPS panel for under $500.

Ugh, this just doesn't get easy no matter how much research I do. I still haven't pulled the trigger on a 22" TN panel yet because 1920x1200 sounds so much more appealing. Yet, all I hear about the 24" TN panels is how the viewing angle problem is exacerbated by their size, so that doesn't sound like a good route for me to take if I'm going to be doing photo editing on a regular basis.

You mention two cheap 24" VA panels; the Soyo I can't find, and the Westinghouse has terrible reviews on NewEgg claiming common breakage within months of purchase. It's ridiculously cheap, though, at $399, so it's not exactly surprising to hear that it's too good to be true. Are there any decent 24" VA panels in the $450-550 range? That would be stretching it for me, but if I could get something good in that price range I might just hold off on upgrading/replacing my rig to compensate. However, my brief hunting online today yields disappointing results: it seems there's not much to fill the gap between the $399 Westinghouse POS and the much pricier ($650+) Dell and Samsung VA's. Am I missing anything?

Alternatively, are there *any* 24" TN models you could suggest that would be at least borderline-acceptable for photo editing?

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: ThanatosGOD
Hello there!

I purchased a NEC 20WMGX2 in early 2006, having first sought advice here. In time it developed some kind of 'stain' at the top edge of the screen, almost like a liquid had been dripping and left a mark. It was permanent and very irritating. Anyway I told NEC about it, sent it back, and they say that although its an irreparable fault, they don't make the NEC 20WMGX2 anymore or don't have stock.
Instead their offering me the LCD22WMGX to be delivered tomorrow. However they have said that if I'm not happy with it I can send it back and get a new 20WMGX2/Pro shipped in from Germany.
I'm not quite sure what to do, I really did like the 20WMGX2 even though I had to go through many units initially, due to backlight bleeding and suffer the weird stain for a while. But it is more than 2 years old, there must be superior alternatives now.
The LCD22WMGX is bigger, but has the same resolution and like all 22'' screens has a cheaper TN panel; but it does have HDMI input and allegedly quicker response time.

I should point out NEC service is brilliant. But I'm wondering whether they may be giving me an inferior product, should I ask them for something else in their range? They seem quite cooperative so far? Also whilst the widescreen resolution of 1680X1050 has been good, I wouldn't mind some more vertical space and if another 1920 x 1200 monitor had the same 1:1 scaling functions of the 20WMGX2 for games etc I would quite like that extra space for desktop work and movie use. Are there any really good NEC 24'' screens I could ask for?

In the end I probably wouldn't mind the MultiSync 20WGX²Pro if its the same or better than my original MultiSync 20WGX². But I would like to get something better if I can.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks

I believe what you got was a TN so if they let you I would try to get the 20wmgx2

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: HMF
Hi!

I have been reading this thread for some time now, and am on the verge of purchasing an LCD, my first! I am still using an ancient Samsung SyncMaster 955DF and wouldn't mind a little more desk space.

The monitor that I have been looking at is the BenQ G2400WD, which is suggested as a gaming monitor in the OP.

I am just trying to make sure that this is the right monitor for me.

I will be using it primarily for Games, multimedia (movies, tv shows, etc) and web browsing/IM'ing and whatnot, in that order.

Is this still the best choice for a 24" monitor for what I want to use it for?

For example, I have also been looking at the V2400W from BenQ as well, and I did not see it mentioned at all.

Also, I am wondering if there might be any offerings from NEC that might be worth looking at, as I have always been quite fond of NEC products, and have always wanted to own one myself.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

I think it's a good choice for you, unless you are willing to pay over $500. In that case then I would suggest the HP LP2465 or Dell 2408WFP. For your purposes, I think the G2400WD is just dandy, and it's a fast panel for gaming. Therefore, even considering the ability to pay $500+ the BenQ may even be the best choice still. The advantage you'd be reaping from going more expensive is wider viewing angles, but you would also be sacrificing response time and input lag, so...

NEC's lower end models aren't anything to brag about, honestly. I wouldn't worry about that. The BenQ is a great LCD.

Originally posted by: ThanatosGOD
Hello there!

I purchased a NEC 20WMGX2 in early 2006, having first sought advice here. In time it developed some kind of 'stain' at the top edge of the screen, almost like a liquid had been dripping and left a mark. It was permanent and very irritating. Anyway I told NEC about it, sent it back, and they say that although its an irreparable fault, they don't make the NEC 20WMGX2 anymore or don't have stock.
Instead their offering me the LCD22WMGX to be delivered tomorrow. However they have said that if I'm not happy with it I can send it back and get a new 20WMGX2/Pro shipped in from Germany.
I'm not quite sure what to do, I really did like the 20WMGX2 even though I had to go through many units initially, due to backlight bleeding and suffer the weird stain for a while. But it is more than 2 years old, there must be superior alternatives now.
The LCD22WMGX is bigger, but has the same resolution and like all 22'' screens has a cheaper TN panel; but it does have HDMI input and allegedly quicker response time.

I should point out NEC service is brilliant. But I'm wondering whether they may be giving me an inferior product, should I ask them for something else in their range? They seem quite cooperative so far? Also whilst the widescreen resolution of 1680X1050 has been good, I wouldn't mind some more vertical space and if another 1920 x 1200 monitor had the same 1:1 scaling functions of the 20WMGX2 for games etc I would quite like that extra space for desktop work and movie use. Are there any really good NEC 24'' screens I could ask for?

In the end I probably wouldn't mind the MultiSync 20WGX²Pro if its the same or better than my original MultiSync 20WGX². But I would like to get something better if I can.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks

I also got this stain, although it goes away with less use.

I would go with the 20WGX2 Pro from Germany, any day. The IPS panel is something to behold vs a TN. I doubt it has an actual faster response time. You could probably get yourself a discount on a new 24" NEC LCD2490WUXi or something like that, but I doubt they'd just "give" it to you. It's $1000+ but if you can deduct the ~$600 you paid for the 20WMGX2 I guess you've got a deal? Doesn't hurt to ask. There is also a 26" NEC LCD2690WUXi (wide gamut) although personally I would go with the 24" standard gamut for most everyday purposes and the 24" has less QA problems.

As for finding something "better" than the 20WMGX2, you won't, unless it's the 24" or 26" NECs or maybe an IPS-based DoubleSight or Apple Cinema Display.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: T0bias

Originally posted by: xtknight

I don't think the NVIDIA thing is because of the monitor. I know that certain NVIDIA cards do have trouble scaling any monitor, though. I don't think the VX22 has any options on the monitor so that would indeed be a necessity.

There's the Lenovo L220X too, I'm not sure if that was in your price/availability range?

Otherwise, the ASUS is the best option. I don't think that you will notice the bezel after using it, but who am I to tell you what design is good for you? You may not want to see how my desk is laid out sometimes.

As far as I can see the Lenovo's resolution is a step higher (1920*1080) - I think this resolution is too demanding for running the games properly. I think 1680*1050 will be fine.

After doing some research about the scaling problem, it seems that many people with different nvidia cards got problems with the viewsonic screen, so I think it's something with the nvidia driver not working with that particular monitor (or maybe all viewsonics).. I haven't seen others having problems with the scaling with other monitors.

I got a 8800GTS atm, and I really hope the scaling works with the ASUS.

Before I buy it I got a bit in doubt though. Of some reason I didn't realise that the HP w2207h got a nice stand with height-adjustment, so even though I intented to buy a third party height-adjustable stand for the ASUS, I am wondering how this HP monitor compares to the ASUS? I might have been too quick to say that I prefer matte coating, since I've actually never had any glass coated monitor
I just thought that a glossy coating might be unpleasant for general use, like web surfing, editing texts and photoshopping. I might be wrong, and you might only be able to tell me that I have to take a look on a glossy screen and find out what I think about the potential reflection issues - unless you think the ASUS delivers the best picture?

The problem with taking a look at such a glossy monitor is that it's probably gonna be impossible to judge in a store because of spotlights etc. - so I don't really know what to do. Moreover I'm not even sure if I can find this monitor in a "non-online" store..

Btw, thanks a lot for your help so far

I saw the HP w2207h at a store today and it didn't look all that bad, but I didn't really have any time to use it.

I actually like glossy coatings for doing anything.

I haven't seen any reviews of the w2207h so it's really hard to compare it to the well-reviewed ASUS. There is not a significant difference among 22" TN monitors, most of the time anyway (unless you can find one with a great Samsung or LG panel). Some have response time acceleration, and some don't. I am not sure if the w2207h does. Its response time rating seems to indicate that it does not. That's mainly why I would avoid it: potential ghosting issues. I think they use lower quality CMO panels now too (more backlight bleeding issues).

The LG L227WTG / L227WTG-PF is a glossy panel, I'm not sure if that's available where you live. I believe there is a regular L227WT floating around too.

I would go for the VW222u or L227WT if gaming is quite important to you. If not, then I doubt the w2207h has serious faults and you can go for that for convenience. I rarely go off of adjustment, etc and mainly care about image quality so it would not be a display for me.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: 10e
You may want to look at the BenQ FP241W/VW and you can get it from the store.benq.us for $499 and use a coupon code of "thankyou10" and get an additional 10% off. If the ugly, fat stand is not a problem for you, this is a good screen, and they've fixed the blackout issues with the June 2007 and later build dates, which you are guaranteed to get from their web site. According to users, their web sites policies exceed NewEgg's and most other online retailers, allowing a full satisfaction guarantee.

While the calibration over DVI is nothing to write home about, it is a lower lag alternative than the Soyo and the Westinghouse. I measured it vs. a CRT at 1920x1200 and 1920x1080 at average of under 10ms, so BenQ has done some serious work on the speed of this display. When the scaler gets employed this goes up to average of 30ms, which is still good, but can be counteracted by using video card scaling.

Alternatively, after calibration it is excellent, and it has useful connectivity with HDMI, component, VGA, and s-video/composite as well as DVI-D, and probably has the best aspect ratio scaling outside of the NEC LCD2xWUXI screens. It can do 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p very well, and has full PC aspect ratio scaling/support too.

It may not have the super contrast ratio of the Dell and Samsung (it's about 700 to 800:1 at best), but it is much lower lag, and it is a mature product that works very well with both PC and consoles, and it is standard gamut, which is better if you are editing sRGB images. I use mine for PC, PS3, and Xbox 360 and am very happy with it in general now.

It has that horrible stand, but it is probably a better, albeit slightly more expensive MVA choice over the other two here. I am also an owner of a Westinghouse L2410NM which I love dearly, but has broken down on me too, unfortunately. It is a very good monitor, but quality is definitely not a strong point it seems, and Westinghouse is simply a distribution point for it so their support of this screen is less than optimal.

Your other choice is the Dell, whose input lag apparently has gone down by 1.5 frames with the new "part number" revision, but this is one, so far unsubstantiated report, so I'm personally waiting myself to find out how true it is, because I've used a screen that had similar input lag, and it was fairly painful to me.

I will very likely recommend the FP241VW. I did not know it was still available. The FP241 series were always a great package, though, especially for console connectivity.

The V2400W looks good as well as a close brother to the G2400WD.

I have trouble trusting input lag measurements. I see that DigitalVersus consistently reports 1-2 frames higher than prad.de does. DigitalVersus' seem awful high.

 

[brettjrob]

Originally posted by: 10e
You may want to look at the BenQ FP241W/VW and you can get it from the store.benq.us for $499 and use a coupon code of "thankyou10" and get an additional 10% off. If the ugly, fat stand is not a problem for you, this is a good screen, and they've fixed the blackout issues with the June 2007 and later build dates, which you are guaranteed to get from their web site. According to users, their web sites policies exceed NewEgg's and most other online retailers, allowing a full satisfaction guarantee.

While the calibration over DVI is nothing to write home about, it is a lower lag alternative than the Soyo and the Westinghouse. I measured it vs. a CRT at 1920x1200 and 1920x1080 at average of under 10ms, so BenQ has done some serious work on the speed of this display. When the scaler gets employed this goes up to average of 30ms, which is still good, but can be counteracted by using video card scaling.

Alternatively, after calibration it is excellent, and it has useful connectivity with HDMI, component, VGA, and s-video/composite as well as DVI-D, and probably has the best aspect ratio scaling outside of the NEC LCD2xWUXI screens. It can do 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p very well, and has full PC aspect ratio scaling/support too.

It may not have the super contrast ratio of the Dell and Samsung (it's about 700 to 800:1 at best), but it is much lower lag, and it is a mature product that works very well with both PC and consoles, and it is standard gamut, which is better if you are editing sRGB images. I use mine for PC, PS3, and Xbox 360 and am very happy with it in general now.

It has that horrible stand, but it is probably a better, albeit slightly more expensive MVA choice over the other two here. I am also an owner of a Westinghouse L2410NM which I love dearly, but has broken down on me too, unfortunately. It is a very good monitor, but quality is definitely not a strong point it seems, and Westinghouse is simply a distribution point for it so their support of this screen is less than optimal.

Your other choice is the Dell, whose input lag apparently has gone down by 1.5 frames with the new "part number" revision, but this is one, so far unsubstantiated report, so I'm personally waiting myself to find out how true it is, because I've used a screen that had similar input lag, and it was fairly painful to me.

Thanks for pointing this out - that looks like it might be a sweet spot for price vs. quality for those of us without an unlimited budget.

However, this past weekend I decided to check out my local OfficeMax after seeing reports on HardForums about the Soyo 24" MVA panel being sold dirt cheap there. Sure enough, there was one left for $279, so I snagged it. It's a gorgeous display, and for the price, there's absolutely nothing I can complain about. My only reservation is over quality/longevity and reports of poor customer service.

I have 14 days to return the Soyo. After using it for a couple days, I didn't think there was a chance in hell I'd actually get rid of this sub-$300 24" VA panel, but that BenQ is awfully tempting for $450 if quality is notably superior - although dayum, you meant it when you said that stand is ugly!

Due to a variety of unfortunate circumstances (mainly involving a broken primary video card and having to revert to a GeForce2 MX PCI card until I do a new build in the next couple weeks), I've been unable to do any real gaming with the monitor to test out input lag issues - does anyone happen to know if the Soyo 24" VA is known for severe input lag problems? I'm not a serious gamer, but if this panel is likely to make FPS games completely unplayable I might be more apt to think about swapping for the BenQ. Otherwise, I may just take my chances with the Soyo and add the $50 2-year in-store warranty at OfficeMax.

 

[HMF]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: HMF
Hi!

I have been reading this thread for some time now, and am on the verge of purchasing an LCD, my first! I am still using an ancient Samsung SyncMaster 955DF and wouldn't mind a little more desk space.

The monitor that I have been looking at is the BenQ G2400WD, which is suggested as a gaming monitor in the OP.

I am just trying to make sure that this is the right monitor for me.

I will be using it primarily for Games, multimedia (movies, tv shows, etc) and web browsing/IM'ing and whatnot, in that order.

Is this still the best choice for a 24" monitor for what I want to use it for?

For example, I have also been looking at the V2400W from BenQ as well, and I did not see it mentioned at all.

Also, I am wondering if there might be any offerings from NEC that might be worth looking at, as I have always been quite fond of NEC products, and have always wanted to own one myself.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

I think it's a good choice for you, unless you are willing to pay over $500. In that case then I would suggest the HP LP2465 or Dell 2408WFP. For your purposes, I think the G2400WD is just dandy, and it's a fast panel for gaming. Therefore, even considering the ability to pay $500+ the BenQ may even be the best choice still. The advantage you'd be reaping from going more expensive is wider viewing angles, but you would also be sacrificing response time and input lag, so...

NEC's lower end models aren't anything to brag about, honestly. I wouldn't worry about that. The BenQ is a great LCD.

So... I had looked at the Dell 2408WFP some time ago. Money not being an issue... would you recommend that monitor over the BenQ G2400WD? Would the input lag and response time be that noticeable in comparison to the BenQ?