[Retired] The LCD Thread

[darXoul]

Upgrading my PC right now which means another temporary metamorphosis for me - from lurker to poster I'm also replacing my trusted Samsung 226BW (got one with "S" panel and I must say that for any gamer/general home user who doesn't care about vertical viewing angle and only needs 1680*1050 resolution, it's an awesome piece of hardware). I want 1920*1200 and the following monitors are on my crosshair:

HP LP2475W
+ great viewing angles
+ low input lag (usually 1, sometimes 2 fps)
+ good overall image quality
+ no smearing, only minor dark ghosting in some situations
- no polarizer -> limited black/dark tone viewing angles
- wide gamut -> oversaturated colors in daily use
- IPS-typical decent but not great contrast/black level

Hyundai W241D
+ good viewing angles
+ acceptable input lag (1-2 fps, lesnumeriques/digitalversus is 100% wrong here)
+ crisp, vibrant colors
+ no smearing/heavy ghosting
+ great price
- poor build quality/high dead pixel rate (confirmed by my retailer)
- some minor inverse ghosting even with RTC off
- firmware lottery (blurry text on 3.60)
- service menu necessary to dim CCFL (otherwise, lost gradients or unacceptable brightness)
- reports of washed out blacks despite S-PVA panel

LG W2600HP-BF
+ great viewing angles
+ low input lag (max 1 fps)
+ good overall image quality, vibrant colors
+ no smearing/ghosting
+ great size, readable font thanks to 0.2865 mm pixel pitch
+ great price for a large IPS
- no polarizer -> limited black/dark tone viewing angles
- IPS-typical decent but not great contrast/black level
- red overhue, Rev. 1 (803M/804M serial no.) with poorly adjusted colors
- buzzing sound user reports
- too bright even at 0 setting

NEC LCD2690WUXi
+ great viewing angles
+ good overall image quality, vibrant colors
+ no major smearing/ghosting
+ great size, readable font thanks to 0.2865 mm pixel pitch
+ A-TW polarizer = good black viewing angles
- wide gamut -> oversaturated colors in daily use
- a bit expensive
- input lag on the verge IMO (2-3 fps)

NEC LCD2470WNX
+ good viewing angles
+ acceptable input lag (1-2 fps, usually around 2)
+ superb contrast
+ good out-of-the-box colors, no wide gamut
+ good pixel response
+ decent price
- buzzing sound reports
- prad.de reports some ghosting in games

EIZO S2431W
+ very good viewing angles
+ acceptable input lag (1-2 fps)
+ superb contrast
+ good out-of-the-box colors, no wide gamut
+ good pixel response
- pretty expensive (but not for an EIZO)
- dated, bland design (IMHO)

EIZO HD2442W (or my broken hope )
+ very good viewing angles
+ superb contrast
+ good out-of-the-box colors, no wide gamut
+ good pixel response
- expensive
- dated, bland design (IMHO)
- Thru Mode disappointment (only HDMI = max res 1920*1080, input lag still significant)
- 2-3 fps input lag (DVI)
- weird sound reports (buzzing + variable high-pitched whining depending on content displayed)

I've seen most of them in action so I hope my evaluation can help some buyers. Tomorrow, I'll be testing 2470WNX vs. S2431W, since I pretty much narrowed my choice down to these two LCDs. Once I get my new PC up and running, I'll post a "non-scientific, real world use" review of my monitor, probably the Eizo...

 

[FordGT]

If I zoom in on photos I've taken of the pixel I noticed a few things. On a white background it appears as a small gray dot but when I zoom in a can see that the green sub pixel is dimmer than the others. The red and blue sub pixels on either side look normal. This is when viewing this thread here on AnandTech full width. When I resize the browser window to a smaller size and view a light colored page the dot appears darker than before as if the green sub pixel dims even more.

When I view a dark image in Firefox(or any other window) while in full screen(max width of screen) the dot appears as a bright greenish white spot. The intensity of brightness of the green sub pixel varies depending on what is shown on the screen. If I view a page with equal white and dark images it glows bright green. If the page has say 80-90% darker images or a darker background the green sub pixel dims but it's still visible.

The green sub pixel is located almost exactly above the HP logo but near the top. If I place a window to the left or right of this "line" the sub pixel doesn't show nearly as bright as when I place something underneath it.

Get this! While creating this example image below I moved it around in Photoshop and the sub pixel would change brightness depending on what was shown beneath it. It's as if it thinks it a pixel lower down or something. Like it's connected to the same circuit as the whole line of pixels below it.

Here's an example:

http://img525.imageshack.us/my...?image=hpw2207hbt8.jpg

 

[mmnno]

Originally posted by: xtknight


Some PXs have the anti-glow polarizer, and all DSs do.

After the 263N sold out in April and then came back in stock in June or whenever, I don't think anyone reported getting one with an A-TW polarizer. We have some reports from people with the 265W, but none of them mentioned the polarizer (and it sounds like they don't know what to look for.)

I wasn't aware any Planars were reported with the polarizer, but the reviews are not that positive on the 265W. Unless you really need component for some reason, the verdict right now is wait for more reviews to come if you can, or else avoid.

 

[TMoney468]

General question about the HP LP2475W...would this really be a bad monitor for web design and photoshop work? I have a simple hardware calibrator that I could use to calibrate the monitor, but I just have a big fear since it's wide-gamut. It seems like a great display, only the wide-gamut is holding me back. Any suggestions?

 

[WhiteZero]

So is the BenQ G2400WD still a viable choice for a gaming monitor? It's currently on backorder and I have to wait till about Oct. 20th for them to get back in stock. Anyone think there is a 24" monitor significantly better for under... say $600.
I might even consider breaking $700 if it's a superb monitor.
Must have HDMI and DVI. 1:1 pixel mapping is very much preferred.

 

[suklee]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Kai920
Thanks for the reply... My wife suggested I keep using the Viewsonic and the right side of screen only

Isn't that like saying, if one part of the carpet is stained with grape juice, "only look at the other side"??

Yes, I was quite surprised she even suggested that but of course her counter is that "one side of the monitor is perfectly usable"

I am debating between getting another 22" 1680x1050 or a 24" 1920x1200.

My Dell 20"/22" choices are:
E207WFP 20" Entry Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor
SP2008WFP 20" Widescreen Flat Panel LCD Monitor*
UltraSharp? 2009W 20" Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor
SP2208WFP 22" Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor*
E228WFP 22" Entry Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor

The SP models have a webcam integrated. Which one of the above, if any, is comparable to the 2007FP you recommended?

None really. They are all TN panels. I assume that the 2007WFP is out of your price range?

For 24", my choices are
E248WFP Entry 24" WideScreen Flat Panel LCD Monitor
UltraSharp? 2408WFP 24" Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor
S2409W 24-inch Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor

The Ultrasharp costs significantly more than the other two. (More than US$300 difference)

Seems like you're willing to put down a good amount for these so I recommend getting a high quality 2007FP panel for the money.

It's not that the 2007WFP is out of my price range - I don't seem to have the 2007WFP as one of my choices in Dell's HK Store. How much is the 2007WFP supposed to go for? Now they don't even have the S2409W anymore on the 24"-plus LCD listing for some reason?

I wanted a Dell simply to "match" the other monitor that already exists on my desktop, but I guess that's a bit silly since I did have the Viewsonic before

If there is nothing worth getting from Dell, I may have to look elsewhere for a 1920x1200 monitor. Of course that means a lot more choices to narrow down

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Is there any advantage of the new DS-265W over the Planar counterpart? It is only slightly cheaper, and I might be able to find the Planar in a B&M store to avoid any dead pixel problems.

The first user reviews on the 265 are popping up over at HardForum, and it doesn't look good. There are labels on the back for USB and HDMI ports that aren't there, the menu button either doesn't work or turns off the monitor, sparkling pixels, etc. On the other hand, only a couple of people have them, so all the problems except the missing ports could just be due to a defective monitor that could be exchanged.

Most importantly, no A-TW polarizer, which was the only reason to buy DS over the Planar in the first place.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: ericinho

Originally posted by: ericinho
XKnight: any thoughts on the spanking new S-IPS 24" screen of HP (HP LP2475W). Got a positive review at http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_lp2475w.htm

It seems btw that also this screen is plagued by the wide gammut virus (which makes a screen not really useful for general use)

I disagree. IMO, wide gamut is a definite plus in games and movies. Sure, if you do color critical work you probably shouldn't get one, but otherwise I very much prefer it.

 

[Tofucube0]

So i haven't really been able to figure this out. Is HDMI important on a monitor if your just using it for computer use and gaming, not watching tv? I was thinking about getting the Benq V2400wd since Benq seemes to be saying bye bye to the G2400WD but i noticed it doesn't have HDMI, just dvi and i dont know how important that is. Are we expecting video cards to start using HDMI over DVI in the future or should i not worry about it?

 

[Shoggoth]

Hi

I'm looking for a monitor to replace my lg f900b which I think is dying (it often has wobbling borders and makes strange noises)

I'd like a general purpose one, so i was thinking about pva/mva panel (I also use to watch some movies on the pc); it seems they aren't cheap, except for the old asus pw201 which comes at about 220 ?; I also like asus' ZBD warranty.
Is this monitor still a good choice? Are there any other pva/mva in the same price range (I didn't find others on sale, and it seems other monitors with the same panel as the pw201 are no longer produced)?
Could I have resolution problems with my old radeon 9500 pro card?

Thank you

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Orodreth

Originally posted by: Centurin

Originally posted by: Orodreth
Has anyone purchased directly from Doublesight? What is their return policy?

From Doublesight's website

Our Policy regarding "Dead Pixels":

The TFT LCD panel consists of millions of small transistors. Defective transistors will each cause a missing red, green or blue dot. We follow the industry quality standard set by major LCD panel manufacturers. It is customary that some panels have a few defective transistors. These panels are not considered bad quality and you can use them without uneasiness. DoubleSight Displays considers more than seven (7) defective transistors per panel to be defective and thus eligible for repair within a three (3) year warranty period.

In other words, it sucks.

NEC does not post a dead pixel count return policy online,
and I did not bother to call customer service and wait on the phone to find out the answer...
http://www.necdisplay.com/Supp...cePolicies/?section=ds
but I presume it must be industry standard 5-7 or higher, if they are shy about stating it visibly.


PLANAR.COM SUPPORT - ONLINE CUSTOMER SUPPORT FAQ...

Question:

What are non-responding, stuck, or "dead", pixels and what do I do if I see one on my monitor?

Answer:

Non-responsive, or "dead", pixels are tiny colored bright spots or tiny dark spots on an LCD panel. They are caused by the transistor element (1 for each red, green, and blue sub-pixel in a pixel) failing to operate properly. This is generally considered (by industry standards) NOT to be cause for repair or replacement of the LCD panel, unless a large enough number is seen on the screen.

On an SXGA monitor there are 1280 columns and 1024 rows of pixels, this equals 1.3M pixels. If you multiply by 3 (for the number of colors) you get 3.9 million sub-pixels. At a failure rate of just 1 part-per-million (or PPM), you would expect to see an average of 4 non-responsive sub-pixels on each LCD panel. Most of the display industry replaces displays with 5 - 7 non-responsive pixels.

Planar will consider repair or replacement of a monitor with 3 or more non-responsive pixels, call our technical support line at 1-866-PLANAR1 (1-866-752-6271).


NOTE: Read that last paragraph again... = Planar for the win?

Planar has also replaced for only one stuck pixel when that pixel was near the center of the screen. Plus, you get the replacement within 48 hours, you don't have to send back the old one until the new one arrives, and they pay shipping both ways. Its the best warranty in the business AFAIK.

 

[ninethirty]

So, judging by the not-too-positive early reports of the DoubleSight 265W, the most compelling 24"-to-26" options that are widely available seem to be the HP LP2475W and the Planar PX2611W, right? I think I'm mentally discounting the NECs because they're in 30" cost territory. Those in Europe have the Hazro and LG W2600HP-BF and perhaps a few others... I didn't recognize the Hyundai or Eizos on darXoul's list, but Eizos are usually out of my league.

If I'm reading correctly, it sounds like the breakdown between those two is as follows:

HP:
+ cheaper (~ $650 at the moment)
+ many more input options
- wide gamut (some consider this a plus)

Planar
+ best dead pixel policy, great warranty support
+ or - 2" larger, which means text is larger but slightly less sharp
- more expensive (~ $850 at the moment)

Neither have the A-TW polarizer; that's now restricted to >$1000 monitors now, right?

So it seems that the HP is the general winner here, unless one is strongly against wide gamut. Does that mean that the HP will land just under the 30" monitors on the Office Work list?

 

[mmnno]

Originally posted by: ninethirty
So, judging by the not-too-positive early reports of the DoubleSight 265W, the most compelling 24"-to-26" options that are widely available seem to be the HP LP2475W and the Planar PX2611W, right? I think I'm mentally discounting the NECs because they're in 30" cost territory. Those in Europe have the Hazro and LG W2600HP-BF and perhaps a few others... I didn't recognize the Hyundai or Eizos on darXoul's list, but Eizos are usually out of my league.

If I'm reading correctly, it sounds like the breakdown between those two is as follows:

HP:
+ cheaper (~ $650 at the moment)
+ many more input options
- wide gamut (some consider this a plus)

Planar
+ best dead pixel policy, great warranty support
+ or - 2" larger, which means text is larger but slightly less sharp
- more expensive (~ $850 at the moment)

Neither have the A-TW polarizer; that's now restricted to >$1000 monitors now, right?

So it seems that the HP is the general winner here, unless one is strongly against wide gamut. Does that mean that the HP will land just under the 30" monitors on the Office Work list?

The HP's gamut is only 10% wider than the planar (102% and 92% against NTSC, respectively, srgb is 72%.) Both are wide gamut, so if that was a problem you wouldn't be looking at the planar anyway (or the 263N/265W, or NEC 2690.)

 

[ninethirty]

Ah, good point. I didn't realize the Planar was high-gamut.
The Planar doesn't seem to have much going for it.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: ninethirty
Ah, good point. I didn't realize the Planar was high-gamut.
The Planar doesn't seem to have much going for it.

Naw, its the just the fastest (5ms), lowest lag (less than a frame), 26" wide gamut IPS available, with the best warranty in the business. Other than that, it doesn't have much going for it.

 

[Centurin]

As of right now, I'm going with the PX2611W. However, I have a question regarding buying an LCD TV. I was browsing around Best Buy, Circuit City, and Sams Club today. All 3 stores have LCD TVs of 37" to 42" for around $800-$1000 which is pretty much my budget. All have a native res of 1920x1080 and support 1080p. They also have multiple HDMI connections. The problem with looking around the stores is that I have no clue as to the response time, or input lag of any of the displays. One interesting thing is that a lot of the displays used 120hz as a refresh rate. I also realize that the larger display will have a larger Pixel size as well. I'm more concerned with image quality and response time.

Would it be a better deal to spend the money on an LCD TV? Is there a way to look up the response times? With a large display, I can move my computer into the living room and use the LCD for both TV and computing.

 

[ninethirty]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Naw, its the just the fastest (5ms), lowest lag (less than a frame), 26" wide gamut IPS available, with the best warranty in the business. Other than that, it doesn't have much going for it.

Ha. Well, to be fair, the HP is roughly the same speed (5ms or 6ms GTG depending on who you listen to), and has fairly low input lag according initial tests. But the Planar does have a great warranty and dead pixel policy, which is certainly worth money. Up to you whether it's worth the $150 or so in price difference.
So, when I say "doesn't seem to have much going for it", I mean in comparison to the HP at its current price. But it's clearly a good monitor, and if you're quite partial to the bigger dot pitch, it could easily be worth it.

I'd love to hear feedback about HP's warranty service, if anyone has experience. I know it was asked further up the thread. It'd be nice to know exactly how much warranty support you're giving up going with the HP.

 

[LeoM]

Hi, first time LCD buyer here. I'm coming from an NEC FE791sb Diamondtron CRT, so I'm used to a high quality picture, suitable at least for web photo work. I need to stay under $500.

I am looking at two widescreen units -- the LG L227WTG and the NEC 20WMGX2. I can get the LG new of course, and the NEC is available as a factory refurb. Both have gotten high praise in this thread but I haven't seen a direct comparison between the two, subjective or otherwise. Any comparative info appreciated.

 

[fyleow]

..

 

[Kanchi]

Hi! My old crt finally died on me so I'm looking for a new lcd. I'll use it for digital artwork, 3dsmax/photoshop (not so much for actual photo editing though), but also for games and I also read quite a bit so it would be nice if text is readable. Movies aren't as important as I'll just watch those on the tv.
Right now I'm looking at 24" screens:

Eizo Flexscan S2431W-BK

+screen quality
+automatic adjustment for light (I sit right next to a window so outside lighting used to play havoc with my black values)
+ 100% pixel guaranty from the store i'd buy it from
- input lag/response time (not sure how noticeable it is though, but as long as i don't know it's the biggest hurdle)
- price
- ugly stand

HP LP2475w

+ input lag/response time
+ price (?200 less then the eizo)
- wide gamut (big unknown but seems like it's more trouble then it's worth unless you actually need it? This is the biggest hurdle for me.)
- also ugly stand

Dell 2408WFP

+nice features
+looks nice
+ 100% pixel guaranty
- input lag (not sure if it is really fixed in the a01 rev as I can't seem to find a review for it, also I have no idea what version I would get if I'd order it from the dutch dell site..)
- not sure if all the other problems are fixed
- more expensive then the eizo even

Any thoughts on what I should get or have some extra info to overcome the biggest hurdles?
Any options I missed? (keep in mind that we don't get all brands/ models(NEC grr) in the Netherlands)

Thanks a lot

 

[korandot]

Does anyone know a good lcd mount for three 24 inch widescreen monitors?

 

[Muadib]

Kanchi, what other problems are you talking about with the 2408WFP? I just won one on Ebay, and your comment has me concerned.

 

[Kanchi]

Don't remember exactly as the input lag was my main concern at the time but think it was something about uneven brightness across the screen, think there was some mention in this thread: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1264046

 

[Orodreth]

Originally posted by: ninethirty
HP:
+ cheaper (~ $650 at the moment)
+ many more input options
- wide gamut (some consider this a plus)

Planar
+ best dead pixel policy, great warranty support
+ or - 2" larger, which means text is larger but slightly less sharp
- more expensive (~ $850 at the moment)

So this has me curious...

I currently have the Samsung 226CW (22") which has a native resolution of 1680 x 1050 and dot/pixel pitch of 0.282mm. The NEC2690/DS263N/DS265W/PX2611 all using the same screen (26") have a native resolution of 1920 x 1200 and dot/pixel pitch of 0.2865mm.

Given the numbers, I calculate that the 26" screen indicated should look nearly identical in terms of "text size on the screen". But I am curious if anyone knows or has heard reports of the 26" series mentioned being slightly blurry at all? The reason I ask is that there is a note on the 30" NEC and Dell monitors that they have been reported to be blurry.

Given the reviews and commentary and price and product differences, I'm leaning to the Planar PX2611. The only thing that holds me back right now is the wide gamut, since I DO want adequate color calibration.

 

[ninethirty]

Originally posted by: Orodreth

I currently have the Samsung 226CW (22") which has a native resolution of 1680 x 1050 and dot/pixel pitch of 0.282mm. The NEC2690/DS263N/DS265W/PX2611 all using the same screen (26") have a native resolution of 1920 x 1200 and dot/pixel pitch of 0.2865mm.

Given the numbers, I calculate that the 26" screen indicated should look nearly identical in terms of "text size on the screen". But I am curious if anyone knows or has heard reports of the 26" series mentioned being slightly blurry at all?

I haven't heard it. I'm not the expert on this thread, but I didn't mean to imply that 0.28mm would look blurry. I'm guessing (and someone here can correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure) that next to a 24", the smaller would look sharper. But I doubt you could tell without seeing the two next to each other.