[Retired] The LCD Thread

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xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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71
Originally posted by: j0j081
Originally posted by: Popsikle
I a wondering if anyone knows anything about the newer LG 23 inch LCD ( LG W2353V-PF ) , in particular how does it compare with the #1 pick for gaming ( L227WTG-PF )? They are currently the same price on newegg.

Also, I am really reluctant to buy a LCD online, I would prefer to goto a store and buy it, is that a normal feeling? Do most people just buy them online now?

It is beyond me why the L227WTG-PF is the number one pick for gaming. It has been reviewed on multiple sites to have horrible uncorrectable color due to the wide gamut. Wide color gamut is ok for some people but to most it makes everything look super saturated. Yes the input lag is virtually 0 but a much better choice is the W2252TQ and hopefully the new W2353V-PF.

Well, most people here who have tried it have loved it and it's a very response monitor. Many, many monitors are wide gamut these days so we can't take points away from it for that. I personally own it so I can vouch for its greatness. I haven't seen much solid input lag data on the W2252TQ.

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
@OP: Hi XTKnight. I haven't been around in a while but my HP LP2065 SIPS is still going strong! Thank you again for the recommendation several years ago. I came back to ask you about RivaTuner. I'm running Windows 7 beta and I can't seem to get RivaTuner to work. Do you know if there's a newer version, or another program that will work?

edit** I got RivaTuner 2.24 to work, but it doesn't recognize Driver Level support. I had to tweak the color curve at the hardware level. Will this work?

Yes that's fine.

Originally posted by: chilledinsanity
I'm in the same boat as a lot of other people. I'm accustomed to good CRTs (on a dying Sony Trinitron now) and am trying to make the transition to LCDs. I watch all my movies on my computer, do a bunch of graphics and video editing, and am an avid gamer. I'm looking for a 24" for around $600 but will go higher if it's really worth it. I definitely don't want a TN monitor, but beyond that I'm at a loss. I was tempted by the HP LP2475W, but the wide gamut screenshot from here is scaring me off a little from it.

The HP LP2475w is pretty much your ticket. You have to use color profiles no matter what monitor you choose if you want nice reliable sRGB photo editing. Give Photoshop the icm file provided in the LP2475w driver and you will be fine.

For other activities, I don't find the wide gamut *that* distracting but certain media players like Media Player Classic Home Cinema have shaders that can do gamut transformation if you're really picky about that stuff.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: RickJ5
Originally posted by: chilledinsanity
RickJ5: Thanks for your feedback. One thing I'm confused about however is you say the Dell and the HP have the same input lag. According to this review, it says otherwise. It makes out the HP model to be one of the better 24" monitors for input lag and the Dell as one of the worst they've tested in that respect.

I'm refering to the second post on this thread where they give the recommendations. Both the Dell and the HP are listed as having an input lag of 33 ms.

Newer Dell A01 rev reduced input lag by about a frame.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
A lot of you are looking for a panel that will suit sRGB photo editing capability and general use. I'm not going to change my opinion that (at least with sizes >22") an IPS panel is the best for this due to viewing angle, regardless of its gamut. Critical photo editing will always require using profiles and the gamut transformation is fairly decent. (Of course, something like a true sRGB LCD2490WUXi will look a little better, but who wants to pay $1000 for 'a little better'? Personally I don't think that's worth it.)

Besides, there are other advantages to the wide gamut especially if you are doing any type of print work.

I don't think wide gamut is that bad of a deal and it's something we will have to get used to. sRGB monitors are evaporating at a fast pace except in the value sector. We can make the most of the wide gamut "pandemic" if we know how to work around it for sRGB purposes. I use color profiles w/ Firefox which solves most of my problems. For other apps I generally don't worry about it. Some WG monitors are worse than others though (92% gamut vs 120% for instance).

My point is that using a WG monitor with a profile isn't nearly as bad as some people make it out to be.

If there was a $500 IPS sRGB monitor I would be recommending it. Unfortunately, at least in the US, I don't think such a thing exists.
 

DuckConference

Junior Member
May 2, 2009
1
0
0
I recently bought a T220 to replace my 5 year old 17" LCD that died. It's been a pretty decent monitor so far, but I've found so far the the coil whine is definitely somewhat noticeable. I'm sure many people are running their screens in an environment with enough ambient noise that it's not noticeable, but I've found the particular sound the T220 makes a little bit annoying, although it's not a huge enough issue that I'd return the panel. Is a bit of a noise an unavoidable part of PWM backlight control?
 

bitmouse

Junior Member
May 4, 2009
2
0
0
Hello xtKnight,

I am just looking for an LCD recommendation. Something in the 21 inch range, good response times for gaming, ideally I would love excellent color reproduction, as I want to watch movies on it. For some reason I am attached to 1900x1080 res, as I am attached to watching 1080p in all it's glory. Perhaps I should go with a bigger monitor? Imagine that I had 3 different price ranges, from sky's the limit to medium say $600 to $200ish. Thanks for you time. : )


Currently I have my eyes on the W2253TQ-PF, though I can't find much RL information on it, since it is so new
 

Bullet Pulse

Junior Member
May 6, 2009
1
0
0
Hey xtknight.
I'm looking for a new monitor that I intend on using with my Xbox 360 (and possibly tv and/or computer though not necessary).
I need one that hardcore gamers use. Something with a fast response, low lag and great picture quality is obviously what I need.
What would be your best reccomendation to me? My price range is $200-$350. I would prefer a 20"-26" screen
I have currently been looking at the BenQ G2400WD, Asus 26" VK266H, and LG Flatron L227WTG-PF, among many others.
What monitor (not only from those three) is the best for what I want to do (gaming)? (Even if it isn't from that list)
Note: (I would prefer to use VGA or component input)
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: DuckConference
I recently bought a T220 to replace my 5 year old 17" LCD that died. It's been a pretty decent monitor so far, but I've found so far the the coil whine is definitely somewhat noticeable. I'm sure many people are running their screens in an environment with enough ambient noise that it's not noticeable, but I've found the particular sound the T220 makes a little bit annoying, although it's not a huge enough issue that I'd return the panel. Is a bit of a noise an unavoidable part of PWM backlight control?

I'm not sure that's really due to PWM control. It is probably the power transformer. The PWM backlight control can cause flickering although I'm not sure about ambient noise or humming.

Originally posted by: bitmouse
Hello xtKnight,

I am just looking for an LCD recommendation. Something in the 21 inch range, good response times for gaming, ideally I would love excellent color reproduction, as I want to watch movies on it. For some reason I am attached to 1900x1080 res, as I am attached to watching 1080p in all it's glory. Perhaps I should go with a bigger monitor? Imagine that I had 3 different price ranges, from sky's the limit to medium say $600 to $200ish. Thanks for you time. : )


Currently I have my eyes on the W2253TQ-PF, though I can't find much RL information on it, since it is so new

Hmm. 21" and 1920x1080? Well you could try the Lenovo 22". It's 1920x1200 and it has good color reproduction. Its response time is not bad at all. The Eizo S2231W is much the same way but it's not 1920x1200. Both are S-PVA screens. I'd highly recommend the Lenovo.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Bullet Pulse
Hey xtknight.
I'm looking for a new monitor that I intend on using with my Xbox 360 (and possibly tv and/or computer though not necessary).
I need one that hardcore gamers use. Something with a fast response, low lag and great picture quality is obviously what I need.
What would be your best reccomendation to me? My price range is $200-$350. I would prefer a 20"-26" screen
I have currently been looking at the BenQ G2400WD, Asus 26" VK266H, and LG Flatron L227WTG-PF, among many others.
What monitor (not only from those three) is the best for what I want to do (gaming)? (Even if it isn't from that list)
Note: (I would prefer to use VGA or component input)

The BenQ G2400WD is a great 24" screen for games. I'd highly recommend it. BenQ monitors do very well with console interfacing. The LG is a great monitor too although maybe a tad too small for console gaming. I don't know about the ASUS, but spacemanspliff1 likes it. I haven't seen real data on it. So BenQ is my pick in your case due to console inputting. I've never tried the LG with a console.
 

chilledinsanity

Junior Member
Apr 29, 2009
15
0
0
Well I purchased the HP LP2475W based on all my research here, and I have to say coming from a Sony Trinitron CRT, it's very disappointing so far. I was aware that I have to calibrate the color, which I've been attempting to do for hours, trying a slew of different programs. on it. There's just so many things I'm unhappy with about this monitor, it's difficult to know where to start. First off, I do NOT have a hardware color calibrator. I concede this could be handicapping me, but I'd be AMAZED if ANYTHING could solve the problems I'm having with reds and light greens. No matter how extreme I push color tweaking software (even at the expense of messing up all other colors), I can never get reds to appear natural. They always have this unnerving piercing quality to them. For light greens the problem is quite similar, though not quite as bad. In its defense, other colors can come through almost flawlessly (after tweaked), but there seems to be no compromise on solid red shades or light greens.

What drives me more nuts is the uneven lightness distribution. The entire right side is noticeably darker than the left. It's kind of nerve wracking, like it makes me think I should scoot to one side in order to view it properly, but that doesn't help. The problem is also present on the bottom part of the screen, but to a lesser extent. This alone is enough to make me return the monitor, I can't get used to this.

Movie viewing isn't bad, but any compression in videos becomes much more pronounced. I guess this could be blamed on size more than anything.

Ghosting is visible, but I'll admit, I don't notice it for most situations, even in gaming. Response time is about as excellent as anyone can expect on a LCD monitor I believe.

Input lag is very significant in gaming. At native resolution with vsync on, it's atrocious, everything becomes lagged (and no, I don't mean a low framerate). With vsync off, it's still pretty noticeable, but I find the "tearing" on the LCD much more pronounced on an LCD than I did on my CRT, making the desire to turn vsync on much higher.

Interpolation is kind of disappointing as not only does the image look blurrier, but it seems to apply a sharpening filter to it, which increases contrast further and doesn't look good.

In short I guess I'm just a picky bastard who is used to far better on CRTs and intend to return the monitor. I find it depressing if this monitor represents one of the better LCDs out there. I'm open to any commentary on this. Again, I'll concede that my color problems stem from not having a hardware calibrator, but considering how NO change could fix the red/greens problem, I'm apt to think the calibrator won't be working miracles. For those that understand the red/green problem I'm experiencing and can recommend a monitor that does NOT have that problem, please let me know.

I think I'm kind of screwed either way. If I go with a monitor where input lag isn't a problem, it will be a TN panel in which case I'll probably still have the uneven distribution problem and poorer colors. If I go to a higher end monitor with better reds and light greens (if that's even possible), it will probably have as bad or worse input lag. I feel like I'll lose either way.
 
Sep 28, 2008
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Wow. Yeah that sucks. I went from a 21" Sony G500 crt to my Asus 26 and the response time isn't much slower. The picture and color isn't as good but there isn't any perceptible lag issues, tearing or anything annoying me at all. I don't even feel like it is too big. I found myself wondering if it was a 24" lol. It's not but yeah. I didn't get lost in it looking around during fps play. It is a tight gaming monitor for sure. Everyone is different but I think that I am pretty picky about the responsiveness of a monitor. If it doesn't piss me off, it is probably all good. lol
 

Eljin

Junior Member
May 7, 2009
1
0
0
hi xtknight
my old LG L1917S just died so its time for a new monitor. i mainly play games and watch movies on my pc, with very little video/photo editing. im looking for a 20"+ monitor. atm i have my eye on the G2400HD, but thats just because its on sale lol. any suggestions?
cheers
 

Paladin

Senior member
Oct 22, 2001
660
33
91
Chilled,
I don't have any of the issues you mentioned (brightness, red/green, lag). What revision number do you have? maybe is there a way to check the firmware version?
Check over at too.
I'd call HP for a replacement if things are that bad. Supposedly their service has been pretty good.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: chilledinsanity
Well I purchased the HP LP2475W based on all my research here, and I have to say coming from a Sony Trinitron CRT, it's very disappointing so far. I was aware that I have to calibrate the color, which I've been attempting to do for hours, trying a slew of different programs. on it. There's just so many things I'm unhappy with about this monitor, it's difficult to know where to start. First off, I do NOT have a hardware color calibrator. I concede this could be handicapping me, but I'd be AMAZED if ANYTHING could solve the problems I'm having with reds and light greens. No matter how extreme I push color tweaking software (even at the expense of messing up all other colors), I can never get reds to appear natural. They always have this unnerving piercing quality to them. For light greens the problem is quite similar, though not quite as bad. In its defense, other colors can come through almost flawlessly (after tweaked), but there seems to be no compromise on solid red shades or light greens.

What drives me more nuts is the uneven lightness distribution. The entire right side is noticeably darker than the left. It's kind of nerve wracking, like it makes me think I should scoot to one side in order to view it properly, but that doesn't help. The problem is also present on the bottom part of the screen, but to a lesser extent. This alone is enough to make me return the monitor, I can't get used to this.

Movie viewing isn't bad, but any compression in videos becomes much more pronounced. I guess this could be blamed on size more than anything.

Ghosting is visible, but I'll admit, I don't notice it for most situations, even in gaming. Response time is about as excellent as anyone can expect on a LCD monitor I believe.

Input lag is very significant in gaming. At native resolution with vsync on, it's atrocious, everything becomes lagged (and no, I don't mean a low framerate). With vsync off, it's still pretty noticeable, but I find the "tearing" on the LCD much more pronounced on an LCD than I did on my CRT, making the desire to turn vsync on much higher.

Interpolation is kind of disappointing as not only does the image look blurrier, but it seems to apply a sharpening filter to it, which increases contrast further and doesn't look good.

In short I guess I'm just a picky bastard who is used to far better on CRTs and intend to return the monitor. I find it depressing if this monitor represents one of the better LCDs out there. I'm open to any commentary on this. Again, I'll concede that my color problems stem from not having a hardware calibrator, but considering how NO change could fix the red/greens problem, I'm apt to think the calibrator won't be working miracles. For those that understand the red/green problem I'm experiencing and can recommend a monitor that does NOT have that problem, please let me know.

I think I'm kind of screwed either way. If I go with a monitor where input lag isn't a problem, it will be a TN panel in which case I'll probably still have the uneven distribution problem and poorer colors. If I go to a higher end monitor with better reds and light greens (if that's even possible), it will probably have as bad or worse input lag. I feel like I'll lose either way.

Well I'm sorry to hear that, because in many ways, the LP2475w does represent the apex of LCD technology (except for the uniformity issue that some people have with some units). The red/green overbrightness is not due to lack of hardware calibration, but instead wide gamut. The LP2475w has an even wider gamut than some other "WG" LCDs.

This has to be fixed on a per-application basis. You can make Firefox use a color profile, for instance. (That color profile is a classification of your LCD model, not the particular unit, so you don't need a hardware calibrator on yourself.) That ICC profile will come from the monitor drivers.

This isn't as good as having a true standard gamut LCD, but it will make things less overvibrant.
 

Kubaki

Junior Member
May 7, 2009
4
0
0
I'm trying to assemble a dual monitor setup basically for three purposes:
1. Critical print-media processing.
2. Web design.
3. Gaming.

Is it possible to achieve that with two monitors? I can spend $2000.

Or maybe it would be better to buy THREE monitors, each of them cheaper, but dedicated for separate tasks?

If you could also advise on video card I'd really appreciate this. I started another topic HERE, but it didn't get much attention. Maybe I'm asking too many questions
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
I think I'm kind of screwed either way. If I go with a monitor where input lag isn't a problem, it will be a TN panel in which case I'll probably still have the uneven distribution problem and poorer colors. If I go to a higher end monitor with better reds and light greens (if that's even possible), it will probably have as bad or worse input lag. I feel like I'll lose either way.

Choosing the right LCD for your needs is not always easy,some like very good viewing angles others like very good response time for gaming,then colours and blacks etc not to meantion comestic looks ,dead pixels etc..and personal requirements with regards to size etc..


My Asus VW246 which has very minimal backlight light bleed and with the help of Spyder 2 calibration and scenery mode setting(able to adjust the saturation for colour etc) I got the colours looking great and blacks are good as my old MVA LCD,being TN it has the limited viewing angles but to be honest this is its only weakness I can see,its a very good gaming monitor IMHO.
I'm happy with the response times ,looks,inputs etc...


Asus VW246H at Newegg with customer feedback

Anybody else notice all 24" 1920x1080 LCDs far as I as know are TN?

Its kind of strange now there are so many TN LCDs on the market(due to cost I guess) when at one time VA panels were popular and easy to find.


 

chilledinsanity

Junior Member
Apr 29, 2009
15
0
0
KevinC: It says it's revision 3. Also while I think the uniform brightness problem is probably a monitor-specific issue, I highly doubt the overly intense light greens, reds, and input lag are. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I tend to be skeptical of people claiming no such problems exist, as our brains tend to make use of what we see and get accustomed to them. I would only suspect the monitor of being defective is all the colors were off, as it stands, the color is actually quite excellent when not using those particular shades.

xtknight: Bummer. Thanks for clearing up the gamut range though, I learned the hard way that I'm obviously too picky for that. I think my best options right now are to either consider spending more on the LCD2490WUXi-BK or else see if I can tolerate a TN panel with the BenQ G2400WD.

Mem: Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not overly-picky about good blacks, and actually I wouldn't care about viewing angles except that at 24", the panel is large enough
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Mem: Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not overly-picky about good blacks, and actually I wouldn't care about viewing angles except that at 24", the panel is large enough


chilledinsanity your welcome ,I ruled out the BenQ G2400WD being its 16:10 monitor rather then 16:9 which is what I was after.
Anyway playing King's Bounty I could really see how good the colours are on my Asus VW246H which are very good for TN panel.

Anyway I'm sure you'll find a LCD you are happy with sooner or later.
Btw the NEC MultiSync 24WMGX3 is a very good LCD in its price range IMHO,review here.
 

rogan85

Junior Member
May 8, 2009
2
0
0
Hi,

I'm looking for a new monitor that I intend on using for gaming and with my Xbox 360. BenQ G2400WD is still the best choice for me?
Samsung 2494HS/HM was suggested in other forum but i prefer 1920x1200 resolution.
 

Theredking

Junior Member
May 9, 2009
1
0
0
Hi guys and xtknight.

I bought parts and made a new computer when the new intel icore 7 processors came out and now I'm looking to buy 2 24 inch monitors to have side by side. One monitor for gaming so probably a TNT monitor and one for movies, photo/editing, viewing angle.
What recommendations can you guys give me? I've been lurking the forums for a while but haven't been able to made up my mind, since I want to make sure I do a good purchase.

For gaming: 1. BenQ G2400WD
2. Asus VK226H or the Asus VK246H.

For multimedia: 1. HP LP2475w
2. Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP,

The gaming monitor isn't so much of a problem since all the choices are relatively cheap. 200~350 range.
The problem is more with multimedia, Viewing angle is probably the most important thing for me. Since for example right now when I try to watch a movie or avi or mkv
in my current monitor the Samsung 240HD (or something like that, moving this to my second room to use as a tv) I need to sit in front of the monitor to watch it perfectly.
My bed is lower than the monitor and it looks very black from underneath. It also looks dark from the sides, you need to be far away or close up and looking straight to be able to see whatever your watching well.

So any advice would be appreciated, thank you. Off course the lower the price the better but I'm willing to buy one of the 2 above choices if there the best options.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Eljin
hi xtknight
my old LG L1917S just died so its time for a new monitor. i mainly play games and watch movies on my pc, with very little video/photo editing. im looking for a 20"+ monitor. atm i have my eye on the G2400HD, but thats just because its on sale lol. any suggestions?
cheers

Have you considered a Dell 2209WA?

Originally posted by: Kubaki
I'm trying to assemble a dual monitor setup basically for three purposes:
1. Critical print-media processing.
2. Web design.
3. Gaming.

Is it possible to achieve that with two monitors? I can spend $2000.

Or maybe it would be better to buy THREE monitors, each of them cheaper, but dedicated for separate tasks?

If you could also advise on video card I'd really appreciate this. I started another topic HERE, but it didn't get much attention. Maybe I'm asking too many questions

In my opinion, get two HP LP2475w or NEC LCD2690WUXis.

Originally posted by: zod96
Is the Dell 2408FPW a glossy or matte screen or a little of both?

It should be a matte screen. Some matte screens are more fuzzy than others, however. I think the 2408 is more clear than the other Dells although I'm not sure. Some searching around would get you a definite answer.

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
I'm looking at a new build, and I want a big screen.

What about something like this: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/ol...oduct&id=1218071907259

It's a 42" 1080 display with a 120 Hz refresh rate. How will this do as a computer monitor? I do some but not a whole lot of gaming.

The best thing I can tell you is that I have no idea how this is going to work as a monitor. Most TVs these days do hookup fine to computers and the 120 Hz will make gaming more enjoyable, but I would worry about possible input lag due to all the image processing of TVs. Check avsforum about it.

Originally posted by: rogan85
Hi,

I'm looking for a new monitor that I intend on using for gaming and with my Xbox 360. BenQ G2400WD is still the best choice for me?
Samsung 2494HS/HM was suggested in other forum but i prefer 1920x1200 resolution.

Yes, the G2400WD is a good choice, as is the E2400HD (same thing with 1920x1080 res). As long as you find some way to hook it up to the Xbox, which I don't personally own so I couldn't tell you how.

Originally posted by: Theredking
Hi guys and xtknight.

I bought parts and made a new computer when the new intel icore 7 processors came out and now I'm looking to buy 2 24 inch monitors to have side by side. One monitor for gaming so probably a TNT monitor and one for movies, photo/editing, viewing angle.
What recommendations can you guys give me? I've been lurking the forums for a while but haven't been able to made up my mind, since I want to make sure I do a good purchase.

For gaming: 1. BenQ G2400WD
2. Asus VK226H or the Asus VK246H.

Yes, I've heard some good things about the ASUS H series. I may consider placing them in the OP. The G2400WD is always a good, solid choice.

For multimedia: 1. HP LP2475w
2. Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP,

Here I would go with the LP2475w because it's an IPS based panel. The only thing is, you do have a risk of getting a monitor with some uniformity problems and having to deal with HP support to get an exchange, which IMO is worth it in the long run, but it's important to realize that going in. I have no idea how bad the problems are, but apparently they were enough to push some people to exchange or return the monitor.

The gaming monitor isn't so much of a problem since all the choices are relatively cheap. 200~350 range.
The problem is more with multimedia, Viewing angle is probably the most important thing for me. Since for example right now when I try to watch a movie or avi or mkv
in my current monitor the Samsung 240HD (or something like that, moving this to my second room to use as a tv) I need to sit in front of the monitor to watch it perfectly.
My bed is lower than the monitor and it looks very black from underneath. It also looks dark from the sides, you need to be far away or close up and looking straight to be able to see whatever your watching well.

So any advice would be appreciated, thank you. Off course the lower the price the better but I'm willing to buy one of the 2 above choices if there the best options.

Ya I think the LP2475w is the best choice for viewing angles. The T240HD is a TN panel so it will have the worst viewing angle. S-PVA is good with viewing angles but the color can still distort a little. The IPS panels maintain their gamma (midtones) and color but lose a little brightness. In rare cases, S-PVA can beat S-IPS in viewing angles (it depends on the scene being displayed on the screen). If I don't answer your questions satisfactorily feel free to ask whatever you want.
 

zod96

Platinum Member
May 28, 2007
2,868
68
91
What color is the front LED on the Dell 2408 FPW? Is it Blue or Orange?
 

RickJ5

Junior Member
Apr 21, 2009
7
0
0
Originally posted by: zod96
What color is the front LED on the Dell 2408 FPW? Is it Blue or Orange?

It's green while displaying a screen and orange in power saving mode. And for further clarification it's not just an LED. It's the power button that lights up and changes color in the different modes.

 
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