[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

I know the site's down at the moment, but I'm still trying to get ahold of the guy hosting it.

 

[jcc56]

Thanks for the great forum! Looking for new monitor. Primarily gamer but not "hardcore" (RTS, WoW, FPS). Can't stand TN panels. Have been using a Samsung 191T (PVA) for the last 5 years and have been pretty happy. Only issue is noticeable slow response time since this was one of the early PVA panels. I think response time is around 25ms.

Don't really need huge widescreen monitor but looking at 24" WS to get desired panel quality. Considering HP LP2475W and Dell 2408WFP.

Also have the opportunity to get a used Dell 2407WFP that was manufactured in July 2006. Would that be the IPS version? Without seeing it, is there any way to tell which panel type is in the 2407?

Also, I really don't care for glossy screens. Do any of these monitors have a glossy screen so I know to stay away from them?

Lastly, based on what I've read here, I'd tend to lean toward the HP but I don't have access to HW calibration equipment and am a little concerned about colors being off for the limited photo printing I do or being annoyingly oversaturated for office work / web browsing. Should I be concerned? In fact, is that a problem with both the HP and Dell since they are both wide gamut?

Thanks to all who reply with info.

 

[Luddite]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy: Provided you use color managed applications for your critical work it won't matter really. The wide gamut will give you a bit of an advantage for RAW pictures or pictures saved in adobeRGB format(rare) but otherwise they will look the same displaying sRGB material.

Adobe RGB images will look washed out on people not using color managed applications where they are assumed to be sRGB. The solution to this is only save as adobe RGB if they are staying on your computer. If they go to the web...they should be sRGB. Note that this is a property of the image NOT the monitor. If you don't save your images to the web as adobeRGB you won't have this issue.

I wouldn't let color gamut stop you from getting either monitor. Either variety is capable of accurate sRGB color reproduction.

Thanks, sorry...I'm still not clear: would web colors (not files but just viewing websites) be off with a wide gamut monitor that is properly calibrated?

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: jcc56
Thanks for the great forum! Looking for new monitor. Primarily gamer but not "hardcore" (RTS, WoW, FPS). Can't stand TN panels. Have been using a Samsung 191T (PVA) for the last 5 years and have been pretty happy. Only issue is noticeable slow response time since this was one of the early PVA panels. I think response time is around 25ms.

Don't really need huge widescreen monitor but looking at 24" WS to get desired panel quality. Considering HP LP2475W and Dell 2408WFP.

Also have the opportunity to get a used Dell 2407WFP that was manufactured in July 2006. Would that be the IPS version? Without seeing it, is there any way to tell which panel type is in the 2407?

Also, I really don't care for glossy screens. Do any of these monitors have a glossy screen so I know to stay away from them?

Lastly, based on what I've read here, I'd tend to lean toward the HP but I don't have access to HW calibration equipment and am a little concerned about colors being off for the limited photo printing I do or being annoyingly oversaturated for office work / web browsing. Should I be concerned? In fact, is that a problem with both the HP and Dell since they are both wide gamut?

Thanks to all who reply with info.

Web colors will be fine on a wide gamut monitor if you install and use a manufacturer provided .icc profile and color management capable browser.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Luddite

Originally posted by: PurdueRy: Provided you use color managed applications for your critical work it won't matter really. The wide gamut will give you a bit of an advantage for RAW pictures or pictures saved in adobeRGB format(rare) but otherwise they will look the same displaying sRGB material.

Adobe RGB images will look washed out on people not using color managed applications where they are assumed to be sRGB. The solution to this is only save as adobe RGB if they are staying on your computer. If they go to the web...they should be sRGB. Note that this is a property of the image NOT the monitor. If you don't save your images to the web as adobeRGB you won't have this issue.

I wouldn't let color gamut stop you from getting either monitor. Either variety is capable of accurate sRGB color reproduction.

Thanks, sorry...I'm still not clear: would web colors (not files but just viewing websites) be off with a wide gamut monitor that is properly calibrated?

Same answer as above, web colors(sRGB) will be fine provided you use a manufacturer or custom calibrated .icc profile and a color managed browser(firefox 3.5). All you have to do is point firefox to the profile and I recommend changing the color management mode to "1" which forces ALL images(even those that don't have associated .icc profiles) to be color managed.

 

[alkemyst]

how does the Samsung T260 or T260HD stack up (prefering the former)?

 

[DaveLessnau]

Has anyone heard anything about Dell discontinuing the 2209WA? Since yesterday, Dell's product page has basically said there's no such thing. Searching and browsing their site also results in nothing.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: DaveLessnau
Has anyone heard anything about Dell discontinuing the 2209WA? Since yesterday, Dell's product page has basically said there's no such thing. Searching and browsing their site also results in nothing.

It looks like they aren't selling it right now. No idea if it's permanently discontinued, but my guess is they are just experiencing problems keeping it in stock. I don't think they were expecting the volume of orders they received. I ordered it on the 18th, still waiting for them to ship. I think calling them might be best way to find out if they are continuing sales by phone at least.

EDIT: Talked to sales support online. Rep said that it is unlikely that the model is continued as it is new, and they are "extremely backordered" for that model. Not surprising, since everyone is recommending this monitor and it is priced very well. I read on another forum that people were getting expected delivery days in September right before the item was taken off, lol. That trumps my 3-5 weeks, July 16th date by a bit.

Too bad, I was hoping to order another monitor soon for dual setup if the first one met my expectations.

 

[imported_Kane233]

Has anybody used the Acer G24? I'm looking for a solid 24" with all around acceptable multimedia functions but I'll be using it most for gaming, browsing, and word documents. I know that some have a backlight issue but it looks like Acer is willing to take them back and replace them if that arises.

Any other suggestions for a 24" that meets these demands? I chose the G24 due to the price/available reviews. I was interested in the BenQ G2400WD but I haven't seen much feedback on that model. I wanted to try out an IPA panel but all of them look like they're out of my price range...I need under $400 MSRP.

Much appreciated.

 

[riemster37]

Looks like I won't be purchasing a new rig and monitor till October when win7 comes out. I'm still thinking about monitors though (posted 2 pages back). LG L227WTG-PF is the best choice in my opinion for quality/price. I'm not sure if the Samsung Syncmaster 2233RZ has done a good job (perfect job) with 120hz. I was wondering about the BenQ G2400WD too, but it is too pricey for a non 120hz and is very hard to get.

So now I'm between the LG L227WTG-PF and a 120hz monitor. Since I'm waiting ~4 months I was wondering about future 120hz monitors. I know ASUS is making 1 and Viewsonic is making a true 1. Any one have any news, prices, release dates or any other info regarding 120hz monitors?

Thanks.

(for gaming)

*edit* found this, http://vr-zone.com/forums/443950/asus-showcased-120hz-full-hd-lcd-monitor.html

pics of a new ASUS 120hz monitor. it looks beastly. i still need more info though. thanks again.

 

[goodCat]

xtknight, what would you choose between a Dell 2407WFP rev A04 and a HP LP2465? I managed to find both of them at the same price. Primarily use: graphics for web and office work. thanks!

 

[Triplehammer]

Originally posted by: riemster37*edit* found this, http://vr-zone.com/forums/443950/asus-showcased-120hz-full-hd-lcd-monitor.html

pics of a new ASUS 120hz monitor. it looks beastly. i still need more info though. thanks again.

That ASUS had a true 120Hz monitor has been in the rumor mill awhile, but until that picture was released, I don't think anyone knew that the ASUS VG242H was going to be a 23.6" TN.

The main thing I want to post here, though, is the news that the HP LP2475w may now be a lottery panel:

It seems like HP is doing what Dell has done in the past, used different panels for different production cycles and different markets - In the US the HP LP2475w (KD911A8#ABA / KD911A4#ABA) current production IS NOT IPS (and this was confirmed by several emails to and from HP, with "no comment" on exact panel used other than it was a 24-inch (61-cm) Wide-Aspect Active Matrix TFT (thin film transistor)).

I am still trying to find out what panel is being used in current US production.

The LG W2420P may be still "alive" in some markets (not EU, ?NA?), trying to find out more.

http://www.hardforum.com/showp...034311050&postcount=25

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: jcc56
Thanks for the great forum! Looking for new monitor. Primarily gamer but not "hardcore" (RTS, WoW, FPS). Can't stand TN panels. Have been using a Samsung 191T (PVA) for the last 5 years and have been pretty happy. Only issue is noticeable slow response time since this was one of the early PVA panels. I think response time is around 25ms.

Don't really need huge widescreen monitor but looking at 24" WS to get desired panel quality. Considering HP LP2475W and Dell 2408WFP.

Also have the opportunity to get a used Dell 2407WFP that was manufactured in July 2006. Would that be the IPS version? Without seeing it, is there any way to tell which panel type is in the 2407?

Also, I really don't care for glossy screens. Do any of these monitors have a glossy screen so I know to stay away from them?

Lastly, based on what I've read here, I'd tend to lean toward the HP but I don't have access to HW calibration equipment and am a little concerned about colors being off for the limited photo printing I do or being annoyingly oversaturated for office work / web browsing. Should I be concerned? In fact, is that a problem with both the HP and Dell since they are both wide gamut?

Thanks to all who reply with info.

The 2407WFPs have never been IPS. They are always S-PVA. You're thinking of the 2007WFP.

I think the HP IPS LP2475w would be good for you. It isn't glossy, and nor is the 2408WFP.

The wide gamut issue exists in equal magnitude with both the HP and the Dell. So between those I'd go for the HP.

Originally posted by: alkemyst
how does the Samsung T260 or T260HD stack up (prefering the former)?

I don't like it too much. Its color setup is kinda sloppy and its response time isn't even that good.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...ng-topaz_10.html#sect0

The HD model probably isn't that different.

 

[PhotoShooter]

I've been leerking here in the background here for a number of years, well my Viewsonic CRT has finally started showing it's age so I jumped in and got myself two Del 2209wa monitors from the Outlet site for 185.00 US. I upgraded my Huey to HueyPro level and was able to calibrate them both well enough. I not real sure how to judge that aspect completely. Anyway, my main usage is Photo Editing with LR2.3 and PS7. It's great having all this realestate to play on and thus far this was a good choice. Thanks to all for the info over the year(s). Thanks to xtknight for pulling this all together and keeping it current.

 

[Mem]

Prad have reviewed(May 2009) the Asus 24" VK246H monitor(TN panel 16:9) with satisfactory rating.

Good points.

Conclusion

Overall, the Asus VK246H delivers an extremely ambiguous result. The performance in the gaming sector is very pleasing. Here, the VK246H comes up trumps with a good response time and almost no input lag. These characteristics should please even hardcore gamers.
Also worth positive mention is the suitability of this monitor for multi-media applications, which is praiseworthy for a monitor in this price class. As well as the judder-free playback of PAL DVDs through the monitor?s 50Hz support, the model even offers correct film-mode deinterlacing for playback of 1080i50.

There is also a good factory setting in "Standard" and "sRGB" modes, which guarantees problem-free work in the sRGB colour space, even without a colorimeter. However, despite the high contrast, the subjective image quality is only satisfactory: In bright and dark scenes, the image is often somewhat flat and undifferentiated.

Bad points

The interpolation behaviour on the Asus VK246H is nothing more than average. Although smaller resolutions are stretched to full screen in good quality, Asus has decided to omit justified display for 5:4 and 16:10 resolutions as well as 1:1 display. Since the selection options are not limited to these two formats in modern games this can be borne.

On the other hand, it is less pleasing that there is no complete manual for the Asus VK246H. Although the controls are almost self-explanatory, less well-versed users may be irritated by this omission.

The VK246H is also completely frugal in terms of economics. Apart from the classic tilting function, you will look in vain for a height adjustment or rotation / pivot function. The humming of the backlight inverter at brightness values below 90 percent is also distracting. Many users value a low level of operational noise. Fans of silent machines in particular will feel disturbed by the humming.

However, the manufacturing quality of the buttons is absolutely unbearable. On the test model we used, certain buttons became so stuck when normal pressure was applied that further navigation through the menu became impossible. However, according to Asus, this flaw has been corrected in all models available on the market. Thus, the Asus VK246H has saved its mark of satisfactory, which was otherwise well-earned.

Rest here.


My own personal comments : I'll say my own ASUS VW246H(model without webcam) does not hum with brightness even at 32% and buttons don't stick on mine...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Luddite

Originally posted by: xtknight

With a wider gamut and the same bit depth, they can't display sRGB nuances nearly as well. And with color profiles enabled they look less saturated on sRGB pictures than a true sRGB monitor. Thus, a true sRGB monitor is the best choice for photo editing, although wide gamut ones can suffice for accuracy if you don't mind the slightly less saturated picture on sRGB-color-managed material.

Thanks. I guess when I think of photo editing I think of print media, which you've listed the HP LP2474w under. So for best results in webwork, one needs a more accurate sRGB gamut, and for print a wider NTSC gamut, is this correct?

The LP2475w better suits print media and the LCD2490WUXi, for instance, is better for sRGB photo editing just since it matches the gamut exactly. But, the LP2475w can do sRGB basically as good with emulation. Calibrating a wide gamut display might be more complicated so emulation might not produce 'accurate' colors, but at least they'll be there and saturated. Sometimes colorimeters don't work as well with wide gamut displays (LCD2690WUXi and Sypder2, for instance). I don't really have enough experience with it to allude to pros/cons.

Basically you're fine either way if you know what you're doing and you can find color managed apps. Otherwise, just stick with a monitor close to sRGB. Then basically everything will be accurate no matter what.

Originally posted by: Josh7289
xt,

What do you see in the future for 1920 x 1200 resolution monitors, especially for gaming-happy models? Is the horizon basically filled with 1080p only?


I'm wondering if I should bite the bullet and hunt down a BenQ G2400WD now, or wait until October to buy a new monitor as I was originally going to do.

There are many 1080p models but I'm sure a few other 1920x1200 LCDs will be coming out.

You could get an HP w2408h or Acer G24 for gaming. These are decent.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Kane233
Has anybody used the Acer G24? I'm looking for a solid 24" with all around acceptable multimedia functions but I'll be using it most for gaming, browsing, and word documents. I know that some have a backlight issue but it looks like Acer is willing to take them back and replace them if that arises.

Any other suggestions for a 24" that meets these demands? I chose the G24 due to the price/available reviews. I was interested in the BenQ G2400WD but I haven't seen much feedback on that model. I wanted to try out an IPA panel but all of them look like they're out of my price range...I need under $400 MSRP.

Much appreciated.

Well the G24 seems to be an acceptable choice for you. I recommend it particularly for gaming, but it's also good for multimedia. You might also look at the HP w2408h.

Originally posted by: riemster37
Looks like I won't be purchasing a new rig and monitor till October when win7 comes out. I'm still thinking about monitors though (posted 2 pages back). LG L227WTG-PF is the best choice in my opinion for quality/price. I'm not sure if the Samsung Syncmaster 2233RZ has done a good job (perfect job) with 120hz. I was wondering about the BenQ G2400WD too, but it is too pricey for a non 120hz and is very hard to get.

So now I'm between the LG L227WTG-PF and a 120hz monitor. Since I'm waiting ~4 months I was wondering about future 120hz monitors. I know ASUS is making 1 and Viewsonic is making a true 1. Any one have any news, prices, release dates or any other info regarding 120hz monitors?

Thanks.

(for gaming)

*edit* found this, http://vr-zone.com/forums/443950/asus-showcased-120hz-full-hd-lcd-monitor.html

pics of a new ASUS 120hz monitor. it looks beastly. i still need more info though. thanks again.

Well [true] 120 Hz (a la 2233rz) gives you amazingly smooth motion. I think it's the easy choice for any gamer.

I wouldn't bother waiting for other models. I don't think they'll offer anything different that the 2233rz can't.

Originally posted by: goodCat
xtknight, what would you choose between a Dell 2407WFP rev A04 and a HP LP2465? I managed to find both of them at the same price. Primarily use: graphics for web and office work. thanks!

Probably the Dell. The 2407WFP might have better image quality and plus it has all the connection hookups. The A04 is a tried and true unit.

Originally posted by: PhotoShooter
I've been leerking here in the background here for a number of years, well my Viewsonic CRT has finally started showing it's age so I jumped in and got myself two Del 2209wa monitors from the Outlet site for 185.00 US. I upgraded my Huey to HueyPro level and was able to calibrate them both well enough. I not real sure how to judge that aspect completely. Anyway, my main usage is Photo Editing with LR2.3 and PS7. It's great having all this realestate to play on and thus far this was a good choice. Thanks to all for the info over the year(s). Thanks to xtknight for pulling this all together and keeping it current.

Cool. Glad to hear.

Originally posted by: Mem
Prad have reviewed(May 2009) the Asus 24" VK246H monitor(TN panel 16:9) with satisfactory rating.

Good points.

Conclusion

Overall, the Asus VK246H delivers an extremely ambiguous result. The performance in the gaming sector is very pleasing. Here, the VK246H comes up trumps with a good response time and almost no input lag. These characteristics should please even hardcore gamers.
Also worth positive mention is the suitability of this monitor for multi-media applications, which is praiseworthy for a monitor in this price class. As well as the judder-free playback of PAL DVDs through the monitor?s 50Hz support, the model even offers correct film-mode deinterlacing for playback of 1080i50.

There is also a good factory setting in "Standard" and "sRGB" modes, which guarantees problem-free work in the sRGB colour space, even without a colorimeter. However, despite the high contrast, the subjective image quality is only satisfactory: In bright and dark scenes, the image is often somewhat flat and undifferentiated.

Bad points

The interpolation behaviour on the Asus VK246H is nothing more than average. Although smaller resolutions are stretched to full screen in good quality, Asus has decided to omit justified display for 5:4 and 16:10 resolutions as well as 1:1 display. Since the selection options are not limited to these two formats in modern games this can be borne.

On the other hand, it is less pleasing that there is no complete manual for the Asus VK246H. Although the controls are almost self-explanatory, less well-versed users may be irritated by this omission.

The VK246H is also completely frugal in terms of economics. Apart from the classic tilting function, you will look in vain for a height adjustment or rotation / pivot function. The humming of the backlight inverter at brightness values below 90 percent is also distracting. Many users value a low level of operational noise. Fans of silent machines in particular will feel disturbed by the humming.

However, the manufacturing quality of the buttons is absolutely unbearable. On the test model we used, certain buttons became so stuck when normal pressure was applied that further navigation through the menu became impossible. However, according to Asus, this flaw has been corrected in all models available on the market. Thus, the Asus VK246H has saved its mark of satisfactory, which was otherwise well-earned.

Rest here.


My own personal comments : I'll say my own ASUS VW246H(model without webcam) does not hum with brightness even at 32% and buttons don't stick on mine...

Yea I'm gonna put this in the OP I think. And maybe the 1080p E2200HD/E2400HD models as well.

 

[Josh7289]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Josh7289
xt,

What do you see in the future for 1920 x 1200 resolution monitors, especially for gaming-happy models? Is the horizon basically filled with 1080p only?


I'm wondering if I should bite the bullet and hunt down a BenQ G2400WD now, or wait until October to buy a new monitor as I was originally going to do.

There are many 1080p models but I'm sure a few other 1920x1200 LCDs will be coming out.

You could get an HP w2408h or Acer G24 for gaming. These are decent.

Alright alright, then how about good ones, not just decent ones?

Well actually, it's pretty hard to find the G2400WD right now, so if I'm going to be looking at buying a hard-to-find monitor, I might as well look all the way into the past.

What I mean is, what's the best 1920 x 1200 monitor for gaming (low input lag) that you've ever heard of, xtknight?

 

[riemster37]

i just realized the new asus 120hz is 16:9, fml

well at least i can scratch that monitor off my list now

 

[Wazzap]

Samsung T240 vs Dell 2209WA

Uses:
Gaming, Video & Office/Surf (mostly)
Light video and picture editing (rarely)

Help please?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Josh7289

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Josh7289
xt,

What do you see in the future for 1920 x 1200 resolution monitors, especially for gaming-happy models? Is the horizon basically filled with 1080p only?


I'm wondering if I should bite the bullet and hunt down a BenQ G2400WD now, or wait until October to buy a new monitor as I was originally going to do.

There are many 1080p models but I'm sure a few other 1920x1200 LCDs will be coming out.

You could get an HP w2408h or Acer G24 for gaming. These are decent.

Alright alright, then how about good ones, not just decent ones?

Well actually, it's pretty hard to find the G2400WD right now, so if I'm going to be looking at buying a hard-to-find monitor, I might as well look all the way into the past.

What I mean is, what's the best 1920 x 1200 monitor for gaming (low input lag) that you've ever heard of, xtknight?

Well the "best 1920x1200 gaming monitor" is subjective. The BenQ G2400WD, probably, but that's mainly because it has more scaling options that work properly than some other 24" TN panels of its size, not because it has better image quality.

I think the HP w2408h and G24 probably have as good of image quality as the G2400WD does, but do realize the former are glossy panels.

I'd take IPS/PVA 24" panels if I were gaming just because I hate TN viewing angles, especially when I have to pay $400 for those types of viewing angles. So if you want *my* opinion of the best gaming monitor, then probably the NEC LCD2490WUXi (true sRGB/application-independent calibration) followed by the HP LP2475w. In my list I try to cater to what "others" think matters in gaming, which is allegedly response time and input lag. Personally I don't really care about these, but I'm not a "competitive" or clan gamer (anymore) either. And let's face it, we have to enumerate the fastest LCDs somewhere, and where else is that more appropriate than the Gaming category? I'd always look at the Multimedia category if I were looking for a panel for myself.

If you want a "great" gaming monitor then look for an NEC 20WMGX2. Most pro gamers probably wouldn't use anything over 1680x1050, anyways. All you get with a higher resolution is a tad more detail, which can be emulated at subpixel level with 2xSSAA if you really want it, but I don't think they'd ever, ever use AA either due to the performance hit. I think 24" is too big for gaming since it's hard to see the whole screen as easily.

 

[thestain]

1. Looking for Big 40+ inch Monitor, any suggestions??
   
   Would like to keep cost to around $1k, but could go as high as 2k
   
   Any thoughts on this Hitachi Monitor?
   
   was wondering how well it would work with this box
   
   Would an LG be OK... super IPS panel
   
   LG with Super IPS panel
   
   not sure about those extra features, are they any good?

 

[dandv]

@xtknight: Indeed, LaCie is missing from the recommendations post. With their zero-tolerance dead pixel policy and A-TW-IPS panels, they could be the #1 choice for professional color work.

Also, the lcdresource.com website linked to in the first post is DNS-parked.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Kaido
Yeah, 2408WFP.

Hmmm, well it's up to you I guess. I'm not sure it's worth you spending that much even though you're stepping up to an IPS panel with roughly the same gamut (LP2475w), or less in the case of the LCD26.

If I were you I would hold out for LED IPS panels. Are you not getting satisfactory performance from your current panel? Is there something in specific that you are looking for? Wider gamut is good but it's not always going to help you.

The LCD2690 may be worth it due to its great grayscale performance. But it's a little less gamut.

The HP doesn't have the LUT that the LCD26 does, but it has a little higher gamut and an IPS panel. And unfortunately, some uniformity problems sometimes...

At least if I were in your position I might consider the Apple LED IPS 24" panel. http://www.google.com/products...60&sa=title#ps-sellers

Surprisingly, its price is rather reasonable for LED and IPS. Maybe I should have that on my list, but I haven't seen any pro reviews of it or anything. You need an adapter to hook it up to a DVI port.

Well, the ultimate goal is getting the perfect monitor for color-correction and print design, so if my current 2408WFP is the best, I can certainly stick with that!

 

[zod96]

Any idea when will see a 24 inch E-IPS LCD?