[Retired] The LCD Thread

[looper]

You're not going to get fast-gamer speed refresh and very good color & contrast. The HP is a compromise...but a very good one. TN panels, yuck for anything but fast FPS gaming. That's why I'm not getting the BenQ W2400WD.

 

[Winterpool]

If you gentlemen haven't already done, please take a look at Woofmeister's hot deal today: the HP LP2475w for $400.

The one thing keeping me from buying the LP2475w was its $100+ premium over the Dell 2408WFP (on sale). Was its H-IPS panel that much better than the Dell PVA? But now, when I've the chance to buy an HP LP2475w for the price of a 2408WFP, I hesitate... Does this price drop suggest 24-inch IPS competition is indeed on the way (LG? Dell?)?

 

[looper]

Winterpool...

I don't know what to do...

Great price on the HP now, and how much to believe the comments about QC issues w/ the LP2475w...you wonder how many times these issues seem to get re-posted/repeated by different folks at the 'tech' sites...until some probs w/ that monitor dominate any discussion...

Wonder how long that deal will last ...

EDIT// http://www.hardforum.com/showt...4417141#post1034417141
See last post....'tdoran's...about that seller of the HP ...

 

[Winterpool]

Looper, I noted in the deal thread that, although not possessed of the best customer service, MacMall has generally proven an acceptable retailer. I've certainly never heard of them engaged in outright fraud (eg substituting refurb monitors, as TDoran1 darkly hints, heh). I've not perused their return policy too closely, but I suspect one would not be able to return monitors short of substantial failure (ie three dead pixels wouldn't qualify). So there's an obvious risk there (true of most of the online dislpay vendors, including Newegg).

I've noticed that the shipping price at MacMall has dropped (at least for my ZIP code) to levels equivalent to OnSale, though the display price is still a tenner more expensive. I may order through MacMall rather than OnSale, though it seems clear they are the same retailer. Does anyone have details on why MacMall / PCMall / OnSale differentiates itself in this way?

I share your hesitation, Looper. It just seems we see so many reports of uniformity issues with the HP LP2475w, and ordering from OnSale, there's little hope of exchange, so the risk feels all the more pronounced.

 

[looper]

I guess I'll wait until the new 24" Dell is out, and possibly that LG 'W2420P' gets distributed here in the U.S.

Keep us informed if you hear anything on this topic...thx...

 

[amddude]

Originally posted by: damocles

Originally posted by: damocles

The VX2255wmb is probably the most promising. At least there are reviews on it. This might be OK (VX2260wm). Only get it if you can't get the VX2255wmb. The VX2255 probably has better colors. It happens to be among the best for a TN. http://www.prad.de/en/monitore...c-vx2255wmb-part8.html

VX2260wm ("other" model)

Thanks, I just managed to find a LG Flatron L227WTG-PF so I am pretty happy[/quote]

I recently got one of these and I like it. I realize the colors aren't top notch but the response time is first rate.

 

[hotnikkelz]

Ok so i got my DEll 2408 rev A01, and it's stunning, the reds and the greyscale are especially stunning. Right now i'm on Dekstop mode, the other presets look horrible imo. Have not noticed any pink tinting or rainbow effects that others have seen...thank goodness


SO what do i do now? How do i know how colour accurate it is. I' don't intend on buying a hardware calibrator, i would just like to do a bit of software colour management and stuff but i don't know where ot begin to be honest.

It's plugged into a Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 1gig GDDR5 via DVI, I have the Catalyst COntrol Centre. I see there's some stuff in there but don't know know what ot tinker with in there
I'm on WIndows VIsta 64 bit, i see a color management option, not sure what to tinker with in there either
I know nought of ICC Profiles and all that jazz

The monitor came with no CD, i basically plugged and play it. How do I get the best of it using just software.

 

[DoomShizzle]

Hey everyone I'm new to the forums and I need some help.

I'm currently shopping for my first LCD monitor to replace my eye-straining CRT. I do a small amount of photo editing and movie viewing, but my main use is gaming. That being said, I play a good amount of timing intensive games such as First-Person Shooters and Fighters like Street Fighter so I want input lag to be as low as possible.

I'm on a budget (below $260) and I've done extensive research over the past week, so I'm looking for a 22" 16:10 TN panel, little to no input lag, response time to match, and acceptable color and contrast for the price and technology.

There are 2 LCD's I have my eye on and wanted some opinions/feedback.

1. Hyundai W220D "DigitalVersus Review"

2.LG Flatron L227WTG-PF

I had a question regarding the LG L227WTG's Input Delay though. According to the first page of this thread the L227WTG has 0 input lag ( Based off PRAD's review of L227WT/WTP ) but according to DigitalVersus the L227WT has an average input delay of 27ms ( LG L227WT & Hyundai W220D Face-Off )

DigitalVersus' testing method seems to be more precise and explained but can anyone shed some light onto this inconsistency?

 

[Winterpool]

Over on the Hard|Forum, a number of punters are reporting that their delayed Dell 2209WA orders have begun shipping. Another batch seems to have arrived. For some of you who may have been considering the 2209WA, it may be worth trying to place an order.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: hotnikkelz
Ok so i got my DEll 2408 rev A01, and it's stunning, the reds and the greyscale are especially stunning. Right now i'm on Dekstop mode, the other presets look horrible imo. Have not noticed any pink tinting or rainbow effects that others have seen...thank goodness


SO what do i do now? How do i know how colour accurate it is. I' don't intend on buying a hardware calibrator, i would just like to do a bit of software colour management and stuff but i don't know where ot begin to be honest.

It's plugged into a Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 1gig GDDR5 via DVI, I have the Catalyst COntrol Centre. I see there's some stuff in there but don't know know what ot tinker with in there
I'm on WIndows VIsta 64 bit, i see a color management option, not sure what to tinker with in there either
I know nought of ICC Profiles and all that jazz

The monitor came with no CD, i basically plugged and play it. How do I get the best of it using just software.

You should load the device drivers for the monitor and pick the .icm profile for the monitor that comes with these drivers in windows color management.

Go here for my full explanation:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...ght_key=y&keyword1=icc

 

[hotnikkelz]

Will give it a read thank u . The monitor came with no drivers...can i download the Dell 2408 rev A01 drivers from anywhere and be ok?

 

[PurdueRy]

http://support.dell.com/suppor...&libid=0&fileid=235071

 

[dtbbiplagre]

thanks purduery

 

[hotnikkelz]

Got it, i'm all set
I color managed firefox as well, it's a noticeable difference.
Thanks a lot purdueRy.

Is there anything else i should do for improvements?

 

[PurdueRy]

next step would be gamma correction. You can do this in most video card drivers. You can find the basic process listed here:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gamma_calibration.php

Alternatively you could buy a hardware calibrator to do it for you.

Also, you should change the gfx.color_management_mode in firefox to "1". This makes all images color managed. Otherwise only images with color profiles associated with them are corrected. Since most images online don't have this and can be assumed to be sRGB, 1 is a better setting.

 

[hotnikkelz]

ok great, and i guess that's it then
I did the firefox thing after going through the link you sent thanks.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: looper
xtknight...

That Dell and the BenQG2400WD are off the table now. I want something better, so, these are my choices I guess:
*The HP 'LP2475w'
*The 'unknown', new, due in August, Dell 24"...(supposedly an enthusiast model)
*The LG that everyone hopes will be distributed here, the W2420P...

In reality, how much of a difference can there be among these 3 monitors? I don't know if I can wait thru the month of August for those other 2 monitors...

The difference between those and the LP2475w would be minimal, very likely. Unless the Dell ends up using an LED backlight, which is possible. Still, the Apple Cinema 24" is out and it already does anyway.

Originally posted by: zod96
Ok I've finally got about $600 saved up for a 24 inch monitor. Now which one to get? I'm a gamer and I also like my colors to look sharp and accurate. Which monitor would be best for below $600? I would like and IPS or PVA. Or should I wait a bit for some new monitors coming out soon?

Probably the LP2475w for you too....

My typical advice is not to wait for new models. It is not worth it in the slow-moving LCD market these days. Technology is not advancing very fast. So, at least wait for some of the cheaper eIPS and cPVA panels but the current H-IPS panels are nice if you don't mind the money. Newer H-IPS models will not likely be any better.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: amddude

Originally posted by: damocles

Originally posted by: damocles

The VX2255wmb is probably the most promising. At least there are reviews on it. This might be OK (VX2260wm). Only get it if you can't get the VX2255wmb. The VX2255 probably has better colors. It happens to be among the best for a TN. http://www.prad.de/en/monitore...c-vx2255wmb-part8.html

VX2260wm ("other" model)

Thanks, I just managed to find a LG Flatron L227WTG-PF so I am pretty happy

I recently got one of these and I like it. I realize the colors aren't top notch but the response time is first rate.

The LG is a great monitor.

Originally posted by: DoomShizzle
Hey everyone I'm new to the forums and I need some help.

I'm currently shopping for my first LCD monitor to replace my eye-straining CRT. I do a small amount of photo editing and movie viewing, but my main use is gaming. That being said, I play a good amount of timing intensive games such as First-Person Shooters and Fighters like Street Fighter so I want input lag to be as low as possible.

I'm on a budget (below $260) and I've done extensive research over the past week, so I'm looking for a 22" 16:10 TN panel, little to no input lag, response time to match, and acceptable color and contrast for the price and technology.

There are 2 LCD's I have my eye on and wanted some opinions/feedback.

1. Hyundai W220D "DigitalVersus Review"

2.LG Flatron L227WTG-PF

I had a question regarding the LG L227WTG's Input Delay though. According to the first page of this thread the L227WTG has 0 input lag ( Based off PRAD's review of L227WT/WTP ) but according to DigitalVersus the L227WT has an average input delay of 27ms ( LG L227WT & Hyundai W220D Face-Off )

DigitalVersus' testing method seems to be more precise and explained but can anyone shed some light onto this inconsistency?

Hey welcome to the forums.

Apologies but I've covered the DigitalVersus review on the LG many times before. I simply believe their measurement is incorrect based on my own visual tests of it and prad's timer measurements. I've also seen very many user reviews that it's great for gaming. TN panels hardly ever have that much lag, either, since there is rarely a reason for them to. Only S-PVA panels and S-IPS ones which need a big overdrive buffer are that laggy.

I believe the LG is a great monitor for gaming and I'll never change my opinion on that as long as what they're selling is the same LG I own.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: hotnikkelz
Ok so i got my DEll 2408 rev A01, and it's stunning, the reds and the greyscale are especially stunning. Right now i'm on Dekstop mode, the other presets look horrible imo. Have not noticed any pink tinting or rainbow effects that others have seen...thank goodness


SO what do i do now? How do i know how colour accurate it is. I' don't intend on buying a hardware calibrator, i would just like to do a bit of software colour management and stuff but i don't know where ot begin to be honest.

It's plugged into a Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 1gig GDDR5 via DVI, I have the Catalyst COntrol Centre. I see there's some stuff in there but don't know know what ot tinker with in there
I'm on WIndows VIsta 64 bit, i see a color management option, not sure what to tinker with in there either
I know nought of ICC Profiles and all that jazz

The monitor came with no CD, i basically plugged and play it. How do I get the best of it using just software.

Look at my initial setup guide here: http://lcdresource.com/setup.php

I did write an article about manually adjusting gamma although many times it doesn't result in anything good unless you really know what you're doing (I don't think I can do it that well). I would just recommend getting a colorimeter if you demand higher accuracy.

Well I should amend that statement about gamma correction and say that linear adjustment can be helpful (gamma 1.8, 2.2, etc.), but tuning the exact gamma curve and manually entering lookup tables is destined for a worse result because their factory tuning (well, probably preset image) is still better than what you can do by hand. A colorimeter's correction ability is miles ahead of either, however.

 

[xtknight]

I'm going to temporarily halt updating the OP until distinctly better models come out because swapping one TN for another doesn't do anyone any good. I'll only do that if some are discontinued or have LED backlights or some other amazing technology that the existing TNs don't have. There is not that much difference between TNs. We should be anticipating the eIPS, cPVA, and some new H-IPS models though.

 

[Winterpool]

For those of you looking for moderately priced IPS displays, OnSale has the HP LP2475w for $374 again. Bing may be able to get you about $11 back, so $363 + shipping ($23 to the Northeast US). A newbie on the 'Hot Deals' forum reports he got his today from OnSale. It's a new (not refurb) GIG122, Dec 2008 unit.

I doubt Dell will introduce an IPS display at less than this price, so if you're waiting for Dell, presumably you expect LED-backlighting or better panel QC than HP.

 

[SKoprowski]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: amddude

Originally posted by: damocles

Originally posted by: damocles

The VX2255wmb is probably the most promising. At least there are reviews on it. This might be OK (VX2260wm). Only get it if you can't get the VX2255wmb. The VX2255 probably has better colors. It happens to be among the best for a TN. http://www.prad.de/en/monitore...c-vx2255wmb-part8.html

VX2260wm ("other" model)

Thanks, I just managed to find a LG Flatron L227WTG-PF so I am pretty happy

I recently got one of these and I like it. I realize the colors aren't top notch but the response time is first rate.

The LG is a great monitor.

Originally posted by: DoomShizzle
Hey everyone I'm new to the forums and I need some help.

I'm currently shopping for my first LCD monitor to replace my eye-straining CRT. I do a small amount of photo editing and movie viewing, but my main use is gaming. That being said, I play a good amount of timing intensive games such as First-Person Shooters and Fighters like Street Fighter so I want input lag to be as low as possible.

I'm on a budget (below $260) and I've done extensive research over the past week, so I'm looking for a 22" 16:10 TN panel, little to no input lag, response time to match, and acceptable color and contrast for the price and technology.

There are 2 LCD's I have my eye on and wanted some opinions/feedback.

1. Hyundai W220D "DigitalVersus Review"

2.LG Flatron L227WTG-PF

I had a question regarding the LG L227WTG's Input Delay though. According to the first page of this thread the L227WTG has 0 input lag ( Based off PRAD's review of L227WT/WTP ) but according to DigitalVersus the L227WT has an average input delay of 27ms ( LG L227WT & Hyundai W220D Face-Off )

DigitalVersus' testing method seems to be more precise and explained but can anyone shed some light onto this inconsistency?

Hey welcome to the forums.

Apologies but I've covered the DigitalVersus review on the LG many times before. I simply believe their measurement is incorrect based on my own visual tests of it and prad's timer measurements. I've also seen very many user reviews that it's great for gaming. TN panels hardly ever have that much lag, either, since there is rarely a reason for them to. Only S-PVA panels and S-IPS ones which need a big overdrive buffer are that laggy.

I believe the LG is a great monitor for gaming and I'll never change my opinion on that as long as what they're selling is the same LG I own.

I have the LG and it's very good. I got paranoid looking at these posts the last few days and decided to do some lag tests on the monitor. I set it up with a crt and compared it to both the dvi and vga inputs of the LG L227WTG-PF. I took some pics if you want me to post them I can, but at most there was only 16ms lag with the monitor compared to a crt- I think that is only considered maybe a 1 frame drop, but I would say 80% of the time there was no lag at all between the crt and the lg. However, I would say my test is a bit flawed since I did not use the native resolution of the lcd and it scaled an image to match the crt (1024 x 768). I assume the scaling may have introduced a slight lag. I had to do this real quick since I stole my daughter's crt monitor to do the test and she wanted to use her computer. I would absolutely feel comfortable saying there is no lag with this monitor.

 

[looper]

Tuesday, Aug 4 10:26am...

Winterpool...

Price on the HP way up at the OnSale and MacMall sites...


DARN...

 

[hotnikkelz]

Hmm I could've sworn i posted something but it jsut disappeared haha.

Anyway, I used a new profile from tftcentral isntead of the Dell's profile because it failed teh black depth, contrast and white saturation tests at Lagom. The colours although vivid and beautiful were apparently NOT accurate. However this new profile passes all the tests easily. The colour though are less saturated and seem a bit more 'washed' out. I'm wondering if that's normal. Is that uncommon for colour accurate monitors? It still looks good yes, but quite a bit less vivid.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: hotnikkelz
Hmm I could've sworn i posted something but it jsut disappeared haha.

Anyway, I used a new profile from tftcentral isntead of the Dell's profile because it failed teh black depth, contrast and white saturation tests at Lagom. The colours although vivid and beautiful were apparently NOT accurate. However this new profile passes all the tests easily. The colour though are less saturated and seem a bit more 'washed' out. I'm wondering if that's normal. Is that uncommon for colour accurate monitors? It still looks good yes, but quite a bit less vivid.

You say that you noticed a clear difference when comparing an image in IE to one in color managed firefox right?

The color profile that is loaded is simply a gamut map. It typically should affect the black or white level much. That is modified with the controls on your monitor for brightness and contrast. You should load the Dell profile and then look at the lagom tests and modify these settings on your monitor so you can see all the squares.

Gamma affects the relative difference between grey steps. There is not one "correct" gamma. There are all sorts of different standards. I personally use L* which is a modification to 2.2. Some people will use 1.8. It just depends on what you're doing. "2.2" is the most commonly accepted gamma value though.

If you are noticing a large difference between the TFTcentral profile and the dell provided one then I wonder if the dell one is working correctly. That's why I asked if you saw a clear difference in images between IE and firefox. It should be most obvious in red and possibly green. In IE, where there is no color management, red should look much too bright. In firefox, it should look realistic. If the images look nearly identical betweent the two browsers with the color profile from Dell, then perhaps its not working correctly.

Let me know if you need anymore help.