[Retired] The LCD Thread

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Neodymium

Junior Member
Sep 6, 2006
5
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xtknight, are any of the 26.5" TN panels acceptable for gaming/multimedia? I have a S-IPS 2007WFP that I've been extremely happy with, but I want to bump up to something bigger. Unfortunately, the only 27" S-IPS panel I can find up here in Canada is the NEC at over $1000, and the Dell 2709W lists at $999 (though I know it can be had for less if you keep your eyes peeled). When you look at the price delta between these and the TNs in this size category, it's awfully tempting to hold your nose and opt for a TN. Just curious as to your thoughts... thanks!
 

Winterpool

Senior member
Mar 1, 2008
830
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0
The Dell UltraSharp U2410 has been made available for sale in the UK and China. Their prices suggest that the US price will be under $600. If it's in fact 12-bit, I'd probably buy a $500ish U2410 over a $400 HP LP2475w (presuming HP feels compelled to drop their prices), especially if the Dell proves more manageable for sRGB content.
 

zod96

Platinum Member
May 28, 2007
2,861
67
91
If the HP goes to $400 I'd bite. But if this new Dell sells for say $500 I'll take that instead. Although I have a feeling its going to be more around $600...
 

jeshua

Junior Member
Aug 14, 2009
1
0
0
i am really debating which panel to get for gaming. i really want a high quality picture. like when you look at a picture of clouds and an ocean and want to look behind your monitor to get a better view. but i want the responsiveness that goes with first person shooters like counterstrike quake 3 and call of duty 4. thanks for any recommendations and responses! ill consider what yall have to say.

the only reason i haven't bought the lg l227wtg-pf already is because i am afraid i wont like what the picture will look like.
 

zod96

Platinum Member
May 28, 2007
2,861
67
91
I had the LG227 I thought it was an excellent monitor. Its glossy so beware of that. But for games it was awesome. And for everything it was great too.
 

cr0ssfire

Senior member
Sep 10, 2005
379
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0
I have to credit this thread for landing me one of the best deals I've gotten in a long time.

I was trying monitors from local retailers left and right trying to find one that suited me. Basically, I was looking for a gaming monitor with very vibrant colors. Many of them were "good", but I'm something of a perfectionist and I rarely settle for anything less than "outstanding". I looked through the gaming monitor recommendations here and I started to read about the L227WTF-PF. And then it hit me - I had seen one tucked away in a corner at Best Buy! I drove out today and it was still there. I asked how much it was, since it was obviously no longer on display, and it rang up as $154.99. I also had a $25 gift card a friend had given me, so I got it for just $140.84.

My first impressions are that the picture quality is good but it's the best gaming monitor, bar none, I've ever used. My old Acer must have had significant input lag because I seem to be succeeding in CoD4 "twitch" moments more often than I used to.

I'm a little disappointed that it doesn't have the vibrant whites or blacks of the AOC V22 I tried, but I'll see if I can't get it looking better. I've only begun tweaking it!
 

wonderflu

Junior Member
Nov 23, 2007
24
0
0
Hmm...so I bought an LP2475w based on this thread. I have the panel sitting in front of me, and it doesn't look like a TN panel, but the colors and contrast do shift as I walk around the screen. I bought it refurbished from HP; is it possible that "refurbished" means not-IPS? I ask because I have a couple of Dell 20" IPS panels and those have no color/contrast shift whatsoever. Are there any programs that would let me find out exactly what LCD panel is installed in the display?
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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71
Originally posted by: plethora87
Hello,

What are the recommendations for non-widescreen 21" LCDs these days? Seems everything is moving towards widescreen -- I couldn't even find a 21" non-widescreen on Samsung's site.

Thanks!

Yeah...this size sector is pretty much gone. There are always the $880 NEC LCD2190UXp and $1,050 / $1,850 Eizo 21" LCDs...

The 20.1" LP2065 is really the only thing worth it in the standard size >19".


On a side note, I just came across a CPVA panel.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824001333

It's widescreen, though, a true 16:9 monitor.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Kurse
Greetings,

In the market for my first LCD for a new PC so I can enjoy some of the new games ( I guess this would then fall under Hardcore Gaming monitor? ). Not that I will be playing hardcore but the requirements of the individual games dictate this?

Looking at the recommendations for 24" monitors I see the BenQ 2400WD and Acer G24 are highly recommended. What alarms me though is what Prad pointed out - very little in the way of ergonomic options. Although I rarely adjust my CRT monitor this will be and LCD and therefore be placed differently on my desk. Is this something common with high end 24" monitors? It just seems there aren't many very good 24" monitors that are affordable and ergonomic. I would peg my price range at < $600 CAD.

Thanks
Kurse

The HP LP2475w and Dell 2408WFP should have many ergonomics options. These are the high end LCDs you're looking for. However, they are a little slower than the TN 24" monitors.

Originally posted by: Kurse
xtknight,

For Hardcore gaming your recommendation lists in the #1 spot the Samsung Syncmaster 2233RZ and mentions it is bundled with the NVIDIA 3D Vision. I think I have found the monitor by itself on the Canadian site www.memoryexpress.ca. They have the bundled version as well.

Link http://www.memoryexpress.com/P...s/PID-MX23730(ME).aspx

Hopefully that news to you

Kurse

Kurse,

Yup I've been aware of this. It makes the 2233rz a lot more suitable for the average person. I will add it to the notes though. Thanks for reminding me.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Zuhhhm
Thanks xtknight and Mem. It is really hard to decide and not just because of the money but because of the contradicts between reviews.

looper: xtknight suggested the Asus VK246H 24" as well

btw what do you guys think about the SM2443BW ? I know there is no HDMI but afaik there is a cable to solve this issue.

Yes, DVI and HDMI are electrically compatible.

I just haven't seen any reviews of the SM2443BW so I have no idea. I would get the listed 24"s if possible.

Originally posted by: Neodymium
xtknight, are any of the 26.5" TN panels acceptable for gaming/multimedia? I have a S-IPS 2007WFP that I've been extremely happy with, but I want to bump up to something bigger. Unfortunately, the only 27" S-IPS panel I can find up here in Canada is the NEC at over $1000, and the Dell 2709W lists at $999 (though I know it can be had for less if you keep your eyes peeled). When you look at the price delta between these and the TNs in this size category, it's awfully tempting to hold your nose and opt for a TN. Just curious as to your thoughts... thanks!

If you're getting a TN I'd recommend getting a smaller one, or at least a cheap one if it's going to be big. cPVA and eIPS panels are on the horizon, and they make for much better viewing angles. In fact, a cPVA was just released recently.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...scription=cpva&x=0&y=0

Here is a 23" cPVA.

Be warned though, one reviewer said it had bad response time. I wouldn't get this particular cPVA, but instead wait for others. I don't think the response time is a cPVA problem. This LCD is so cheap that it probably doesn't even have overdrive, but that's a guess. There's nothing precluding a cPVA from having overdrive.

So maybe getting an ASUS VK266H isn't a bad idea now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...16824236046&Tpk=vk266h

The viewing angles might make you crave something else for general usage though. It's really only *good* for gaming. It's OK for general use, but that constant shifting can get distracting. It doesn't bother some people, but it's not something I'd want after staring at the PC four hours or more every day.

I'm keeping my eyes peeled for reviews on the newly-released Samsung cPVA monitors, and also any other future eIPS LCDs. That's why I haven't add new TNs to recommendations in a long time. It's really not worth it because most are the same performance wise. Features and coating may vary.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Winterpool
The Dell UltraSharp U2410 has been made available for sale in the UK and China. Their prices suggest that the US price will be under $600. If it's in fact 12-bit, I'd probably buy a $500ish U2410 over a $400 HP LP2475w (presuming HP feels compelled to drop their prices), especially if the Dell proves more manageable for sRGB content.

Cool. This monitor is IPS, at least in Japan. I wouldn't have guessed Dell would release an IPS 24" monitor.

I don't know if it's H-IPS, e-IPS, S-IPS, or what. Actually we don't even know if it'll be IPS in the US. That has certainly happened before that it's been PVA or TN (LG and Dell).

Is this worth it over the LP2475w though? I don't know. At least we may not have to worry about uniformity issues.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: jeshua
i am really debating which panel to get for gaming. i really want a high quality picture. like when you look at a picture of clouds and an ocean and want to look behind your monitor to get a better view. but i want the responsiveness that goes with first person shooters like counterstrike quake 3 and call of duty 4. thanks for any recommendations and responses! ill consider what yall have to say.

the only reason i haven't bought the lg l227wtg-pf already is because i am afraid i wont like what the picture will look like.

The LG has a very high contrast, stark, and gaudy picture, I'd say. That can be good sometimes, but it's not going to be the high accuracy, detailed, and calibrated look that you're looking for. For that you would need to go for PVA or IPS panels.

Some IPS panels like the DoubleSight DS-265W, Planar PX2611W, and HP LP2475w are suitable for gaming and have less lag than other PVAs. Cheaper IPS panels are hard to find. I think the Dell 2209WA (the only cheaper IPS option) is hard to find now as well. Maybe others can elaborate on that. I heard it would take months to ship or was discontinued? If we can trust what reps say...
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: cr0ssfire
I have to credit this thread for landing me one of the best deals I've gotten in a long time.

I was trying monitors from local retailers left and right trying to find one that suited me. Basically, I was looking for a gaming monitor with very vibrant colors. Many of them were "good", but I'm something of a perfectionist and I rarely settle for anything less than "outstanding". I looked through the gaming monitor recommendations here and I started to read about the L227WTF-PF. And then it hit me - I had seen one tucked away in a corner at Best Buy! I drove out today and it was still there. I asked how much it was, since it was obviously no longer on display, and it rang up as $154.99. I also had a $25 gift card a friend had given me, so I got it for just $140.84.

My first impressions are that the picture quality is good but it's the best gaming monitor, bar none, I've ever used. My old Acer must have had significant input lag because I seem to be succeeding in CoD4 "twitch" moments more often than I used to.

I'm a little disappointed that it doesn't have the vibrant whites or blacks of the AOC V22 I tried, but I'll see if I can't get it looking better. I've only begun tweaking it!

AOC V22? Hmm well this is an LED backlit display apparently. I don't know if you're going to get that kind of contrast with the L227, but you're free to try! I'm pretty happy with the contrast of mine.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: wonderflu
Hmm...so I bought an LP2475w based on this thread. I have the panel sitting in front of me, and it doesn't look like a TN panel, but the colors and contrast do shift as I walk around the screen. I bought it refurbished from HP; is it possible that "refurbished" means not-IPS? I ask because I have a couple of Dell 20" IPS panels and those have no color/contrast shift whatsoever. Are there any programs that would let me find out exactly what LCD panel is installed in the display?

This display should have always been H-IPS. If you notice *huge* dark shifting and total image inversion when you look at the bottom, it would be TN. But if you just notice a little dimming, it's probably IPS. I don't think they'd ever put a PVA panel in there. Contrast shifts with every panel type. IPS is the only one that doesn't have significant gamma shift. And PVA retains brightness pretty well, but the gamma still shifts. TN just shifts like mad everywhere. What you have is the best you're going to find for an LCD unless you somehow ended up with a different panel type. Maybe PVA will look better in the immediate sense, but gamma, gray shifting, and the detail-lacking straight-on plane are big issues with that too.
 

mejobloggs

Member
Aug 17, 2009
31
0
0
I currently have a Samsung 2232bw 22" and want to upgrade to 24"

I mostly game, plus do a bit of web development (colour accuracy isn't hugely important, I just like things too look nice)

Wanting 16:10 not 16:9

After a bit of research it seemed G2400WD would be perfect for me, and not too expensive

But it's not available in NZ

Anyone have any suggestions of what 24" I can replace my 2232bw with?
 

phil0sofa

Junior Member
Aug 17, 2009
2
0
0
^^ Kia-ora - good to see another kiwi randomly about the interwebs!

I actually signed up to give a bit of info on the ($NZ 540) Samsung 2443BW, which doesn't appear to have been covered here - specifically with regard to input lag given that I can't find a single resource, English or otherwise that has lag specs for this monitor (been following this forum for a while viz input lag). But I'll also copypaste a basic overview I did of it for you as the 2443 is one of the cheaper 16:10, 24" monitors out there. Alternatives in NZ are the LG L246WH (lower quality panel, likely reasonable input lag), or the Samsung T240 (more expensive with a slightly better panel but rather epic lag). If you're in Auckland or just ordering online I'd recommend Computerlounge or Playtech as suppliers.



The Samsung 2443BW:


This is the standard, 20'000-1 dynamic contrast 2443 not the 50'000-1, Samsung 2443BW+ model. As a side note, to anyone considering the '+' model - I'd check that it has the fully adjustable stand like my 2443 as there have been suggestions this is not the case - if not I'd get one of those otherwise identical 'non plus' models as 'dynamic contrast' is frankly just BS - it's essentially unusable as it makes the backlight go, for lack of a better term, crazy. This unusability of dynamic contrast is common for all LCD's BTW; ignore those specs and look for the normal contrast ratio, which is 1000-1. Dynamic ratios appear to be solely there for marketing!


Picture quality

This is actually pretty good - colours are vibrant, text is well defined and the whole image looks naturally sharp and vivid without appearing artificially so, once calibrated the colours look great. The only weakeness I can find is the backlight which is very slightly (not noticable unless you're looking for it) brighter towards the top of the monitor and that blacks have a slight 'glow' to them (Atomic found the same with their review of the 2433). Overall, subjectively speaking the 2443 gives a very good image IMO.


Viewing angles

Horizontally you have about a 90 degree range without any distortion, vertically you have a roughly 60 degree range. However you literally have to go to about 170 degrees in either case for to see the colours distort - which is great for a TN panel.


Gaming

The 5ms response time gives no visible ghosting; I also ran a quick comparison for input lag to the 226BW (as there are literally no damnned review I can find that list the 2443's lag) and was very very pleasantly surprised to find that the 2443 actually averaged 12 ms ahead of the 226 - whilst the 226 has variable lag, this suggests the 2443 is likely a pretty low lag monitor as even the worst examples of the 226 are fairly low lag - I'll hook up my old CRT to get a definitive result and edit this post over the next few days. Subjectively (I play BF2 competitively) it's a brilliant panel for gaming.

Lag Testing vs 226


Build Quality

The bezel is possibly the 2443's strongest point - it's just incredibly well made and weighted and has quite nifty (if hard to see sometimes) touch-sensitive buttons. The bezel is is also fully height adjustable, is tiltable and can also be rotated 90 degrees for document viewing. Visually, I personally love the clean lines of this monitor.


Overall, this is a monitor with good image quality, brightness and colours, with the blacks however being merely acceptable. The 2443BW also has minimal input lag and ah heck all ghosting from an end user point of view, making it pretty close to ideal ideal for gaming. Finally, one tip if you do get one: the image is optimal when the screen is tilted very slightly upwards (maybe 10 degrees).
 

poena

Junior Member
Dec 1, 2005
2
0
0
i'm looking for a new monitor. 22" or 24"
main purpose will be for photo editing but my budget is $800.

i was considering the apple LED 24" but didn't see it mentioned here really.
HP 2745 was another consideration and dells as well

from what I gather I should probably be looking for an IPS or PVA panel.
 

looper

Golden Member
Oct 22, 1999
1,655
10
81
Just talked to Dell. Per 'Adrian', the new 'U2410' 24" / 1920x1200 monitor will be available for purchase here in the US in approximately 1-2 months. He thought the price would be around $500. That seemed very low to me. He tried to get me to buy another Dell 24" instead. I'm waiting for the U2410.
 

zod96

Platinum Member
May 28, 2007
2,861
67
91
That sucks 2 months :-( Oh well I can't wait that long I guess I'll go with the HP 2475W
 

looper

Golden Member
Oct 22, 1999
1,655
10
81
Well, these mfg's typically tell you longer than it will be...that's prob the longest it will be...

You've waited this long, what's another @ 6 weeks!! Plus, it gives you 6 more weeks of saving your pennies!
 

Rewdoalb

Junior Member
Dec 9, 2007
7
0
0
Hi everyone,

I'm considering the Dell Ultrasharp 2209WA for $279. Are there any glaring solutions of other monitors which are equally good for a cheaper price, or which are bigger/better for the same amount of money? (quality 24"?)

This will be used for a mix of gaming, photoshop, and office type work. Not much in the way of movies. BTW, the photoshop work is not super-intensive or anything and I'll have a CRT beside it to double-check accuracy. Mostly looking for reliability and price, without actually sacrificing all ideas of good color representation.
 

mejobloggs

Member
Aug 17, 2009
31
0
0
Originally posted by: phil0sofa
^^ Kia-ora - good to see another kiwi randomly about the interwebs!

I actually signed up to give a bit of info on the ($NZ 540) Samsung 2443BW...

Hi hi

That's very interesting indeed thanks. The 2443BW is really cheap, and it sounds pretty good so far. I wish someone would do a technical review on it

Btw I found this thread about 2443BW-HAS. I have no idea what the HAS is though....
http://www.overclock.net/monit...ung-2443bw-has-my.html


And this on the 2443BW
http://naicik.blogspot.com/200...ung-2443bw-review.html
He complains about the colours

You said that the colours are fine after calibration. How do you calibrate it?
 

bbarry

Junior Member
Aug 13, 2009
20
0
0
Does anyone know why the Acer G24 and BenQ 2400WD are both deactivated on newegg (and not available elsewhere too)?
 

genegold

Member
May 7, 2006
68
0
66
Originally posted by: Rewdoalb
Hi everyone,

I'm considering the Dell Ultrasharp 2209WA for $279. Are there any glaring solutions of other monitors which are equally good for a cheaper price, or which are bigger/better for the same amount of money? (quality 24"?)

This will be used for a mix of gaming, photoshop, and office type work. Not much in the way of movies. BTW, the photoshop work is not super-intensive or anything and I'll have a CRT beside it to double-check accuracy. Mostly looking for reliability and price, without actually sacrificing all ideas of good color representation.

I can't speak to alternatives, but I did see the 2209wa for about $235 the other day somewhere I can't find right now. Most sellers are milking the market right now, because Dell was overwhelmed with orders at $200 and had to quit selling for a couple of months. If you have patience, it will probably soon bring it back down toward that price. Watch for Dell specials, such as at *****.

The 2209WA is a good monitor, assuming your room lighting is bright and stable viewing at off angles is actually important to you. Otherwise, be aware that the minimum brightness (0) is about that of a bright office. Lower than that, you'll need strong eyes or have to use the contrast as a brightness adjustment, which starts clouding the picture a bit and to my thinking is a design defect. From trying two of these for a week, I have to agree with the review at http://www.lcdreviewz.com/review_Dell_2209WA, which is less enthusiastic than most.
 
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