[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

I've been in the market for a new LCD monitor upgrade for some time now.

I'm currently using a Samsung 172T that I've had for about 8 years now.
Even to this day, I've been very happy with the viewing angles, color, and contrast of this monitor, but I would like a widescreen and a larger size.

I work with many types of 3D graphics programs and have seen just about everything
in the high end/professional side of things.

As noted the NEC LCD2490WUXi2 is an excellent choice for a monitor, but I have two problems purchasing one for a desktop replacement.
1) Price
2) Screen Door Effect/Dot Pitch.
To my eyes the NEC LCD2490WUXi2 just doesn't look as smooth as the PVA Samsung 172T and I use both every day.

One would think that the Dell 2408wfp would be a good choice, but alas the brightness is torch mode compared to my 172T and I could not get the colors right as well.

I then got frustrated and decided to wait.

I came across the NEC Multisync P221W yesterday. This is a 22" widescreen PVA professional monitor in case your wondering. These can be purchased just south of $400.

I was wondering if anyone has any experience or thoughts on this monitor, or could provide me another option.?

I read something that samsung is supposed to release a couple of new PVA's this winter and they are not the C-PVA type for the 24" and 27" displays. Any news on this.

It will be used for photoshop, picture and video editing, web surfing, and the ocassional RTS game.

I am very surprised that your 172T (PVA) looks more clear. I'm not sure why that is.

I think that if you calibrated the white point of the LCD2490, your initial perception would be put to shame.

So this is my recommendation. First, the 2490 is a professional IPS sRGB panel with soft coating, and this is really the best kind of panel you can get. Its brightness should not be that high, especially with revision 2 of the LCD2490 (LCD2490WUXi2).

Mess around with the LCD2490 a little more, if you can.

http://tftcentral.co.uk/ will give you the latest scoop on display news. I haven't really heard about what Samsung is coming out with, but generally announcements come way before actual products, so do not always trust them.

 

[xtknight]

Question about something in the recommendations on the first page of this thread:

In comparing the input lag of the Dell 2410 to the NEC LCD2490WUXi2-BK, the info given are different measurement types. It says the Dell's input lag is "1-2 frames" and the NEC's is "33ms."

I'm not sure what those numbers mean. What is better?

At 60 Hz, one frame is (1000/60) milliseconds long, which is 16.67 ms.

So 33 is about 2x16.67, being 2 frames. NEC is generally 2 frames and the Dell can vary. The Dell is better due to its game mode, which if I recall is what reduces it to 1 frame (typ).

 

[xtknight]

Just a update with using the U2410 all day. Still love it, if i have to make a complaint, though minor is this..
1. The blue LED behind power button is BRIGHT. I have a asprin bottom in front of it to block it though.
2. The touch sensative buttons on the side..putting my drink next to it will actually put it in power saving move cause i guess it detects it near it? Not sure what that is all about it lol Gave me a scare when i first turned it on it kept going into power saving.

I played warhammer online for about 3 hours today, did not notice anything out of the norm, colors look great and fluid. I did NOT notice a difference in the modes from Game mode to media. Not even in TF2.

lol that is interesting about the drink near the capacitive buttons. I'm not sure about that. Maybe there is some electricity coming from the can or something, but I'm not quite sure how those buttons work. lol

 

[xtknight]

I am looking for a new gaming monitor. I currently use a Gateway FPD2185W which I bought brand new for almost $600 almost 4 years ago. The monitor has not had a single issue and it is crystal clear to this day. The max resolution on it is 1680 * 1050 and well I would like something bigger. I have been reading through post after post after post trying to decide what I would like and can't come up with anything clear.

I know I would like to stay around $300 looking at a 24" monitor that has a resolution of 1920*1080 or 1920 *1200 (I don't know which would be better for gaming, they both should be fine). I would like to stay away from ASUS as I have had horrid customer service from them, but would love other options to look at.

I saw these (http://reviews.cnet.com/4504-4_7-0.html?id=33192411&id=33192334&tag=compare) and was wondering just how good they were. Yes, I used google to try to find reviews but they always have decent reviews for a multitude of monitors.

Any other suggestions I could look at would be appreciated. Thanks.

I'm sorry that you want to stay away from ASUS, because they have the best monitors at this price range. Samsung's TNs are subpar in features and quality. But this is up to you whether quality or service is more important.

Now, Samsung has a cPVA at this price range. Check out the f2380.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...1332&Tpk=f2380

This would be one of my recommendations to you. Also, CNET is not the best source for monitor information; far from it. Try the links in the OP. I am going off of X-Bit Labs and prad mainly for my information.

You get what you pay for... the f2380 would be slow at dark transitions but it is a better monitor overall than a TN. But don't make that rule out TNs for you. I still think TNs are better for gaming, and they may also have more dark details than the f2380 in particular.

The P2370 by Samsung is actually great at dark tones, so you can consider that. It's a TN.

PRAD doesn't speak *amazing* things about the response time but I still think it should be better than the f2380. Here is their review: http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-samsung-p2370.html#Introduction

Also f2380 review on this page: http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html

I'll get back to you a little later on which one I think is best, but in the meantime look those over and see what you think.

 

[Anubis]

I would recommend a 26". I like the font size the 26" size offers.


1920x1080 is 1080p and it is the 16:9 ratio that TV people are used to. It makes it more convenient to watch HD media with 1:1 mapping. It does not make any difference except the 120 less vertical pixels. I don't think this is a big deal, but if you are looking for something bigger, there is always 30" at 2560x1600, 16:10.

As to why they used to have more 1920x1200, I'm not sure. They figured the "true" 1080 ones sold more. It is sometimes about the popular market, not about what is "better". However, 1080 definitely makes sense if you watch 1920x1080 material. As you know, LCDs are fixed-pixel displays and that means they must scale to match another resolution. 1920x1080 needs to somehow be projected onto 1920x1200 either by black bars or upsampling.

yea i basically never watch movies on my computer and even then i could not care less about black bars. Thanks for answering that as well as the other poster who said basically the same thing. Guess ill start poking around for 24s that do 1920x1200. Also 30ins are amazing, i wish i could afford 2 of them

 

[imaheadcase]

Warning! I ordered the Dell U2410 model based on the list. While the colors were good, the text is grainy (anti-glare coating is coarse, dithering is also a problem). Read about it in other forums as well as on Dell's before purchasing. I don't know how the U2410 made its way to the #1 panel for office work. A cheap Acer panel is better suited for office work from what I saw. Needless to say I returned the U2410.

I was expecting the U2410 to be better than the DoubleSight 263N I purchased a while back from recommendations in this thread. It was not. Is there anything comparable to iMac displays that isn't glossy? I love the silkiness of the new iMacs but the glass reflects too much. I do 70% coding and 30% design. Any recommendations?

Return it for new one. That issue according to dell is just a bad monitor. People return those and get good ones.

Some of fixed it be swapping out connections to computer from DVI to vga and then back again.

 

[xboxist]

xtknight,

I'll keep this simple. What is the 24" equivalent of the NEC 20WMGX2? I love my 20", and want to take the leap to 24", but I've been spoiled by this monitor and don't want to sacrifice image quality. So what monitor do I need to buy if I want essentially a 24" version of my 20WMGX2?


Thank you.

 

[T2k]

I hope there will be some deal on the U2410, come Black Friday...

 

[xtknight]

Hello. I'm in the market for a new monitor now and have been looking through the list provided here. I've wanted something that can do most things decently, so I've mainly been looking at the Multimedia section, particularly the relatively low-priced IPSs. I was happy when I saw that the U2410 was getting a lot of praise, but I decided to take a look at HardForums for a second opinion. There seem to be quite a few unhappy customers there, and I'm not sure what to make of it.

It seems to have color uniformity issues similar (though not exactly the same?) to the LP2475w, as well as dithering. A lot of reports say they are just fine, but there seem to be many who are saying otherwise. Although it seems that Dell employees at their forum have admitted to the problem on some level and will at some point release new firmware to address the dithering issue?

So basically, what I want to ask is how bad the uniformity issues are, either on the U2410 or the LP2475w as they are somewhat similar. When I see that in the description here I tend to shy away from the monitor, but I'm not sure if I am blowing it out of proportion. To avoid all this should I simply go with the cheaper 2209WA? I am not sure how the image quality measures up (advice?) and it lacks a number of features that would be nice, but it could save me both the headache of a possible qualitative panel lottery with the U2410.

I don't mind waiting until the U2410's A01, but in my experience with monitor shopping I could end up waiting for the "right" monitor forever.

My goal is to collate all the info on the web and objectively judge LCDs... from what I can tell, the U2410 is a fine monitor that you don't need to be afraid of. If you have issues, you can get an exchange. A01 is unlikely to fix the problem. The problem is not firmware, but something in the LG Display panel itself, which is why it happens in both the HP and the Dell.

I recommend trying the U2410 now, and if you're not happy with it, exchange it. If you don't want to take this risk you may have to buy a more expensive LCD like an NEC with grade A panels...

The 2209WA is not such a bad option, but I'm sure you would be much happier with an issue-free U2410, which should be obtainable.

 

[xtknight]

xtknight,

I'll keep this simple. What is the 24" equivalent of the NEC 20WMGX2? I love my 20", and want to take the leap to 24", but I've been spoiled by this monitor and don't want to sacrifice image quality. So what monitor do I need to buy if I want essentially a 24" version of my 20WMGX2?


Thank you.

The closest equivalent would be an Apple Cinema 24", because it's glossy. I'm not aware of any other 24" non-TN glossy panels...

However, the NEC LCD2490WUXi is the closest non-glossy equivalent.

 

[xtknight]

I'm planning on buying a new computer, and with it, one or more 30" monitors.

I'm down to one of two different 30" monitors.

The Dell 3007WFP-HC, which I can get for $999 at Sam's Club.

The LG W3000H-Bn, which I can get for $1160 on Newegg.

I mostly play things like Warcraft III, Starcraft, Civilization IV, and Sins of a Solar Empire, but I'm interested in Batman: Arkham Asylum (don't own it yet).

Dell is cheaper and has lower input lag. LG has higher brightness and contrast and possibly wider color gamut, not really sure. My wife loves photography and I'd share my computer with her.

Any thoughts as to which monitor is better? I don't see much information on the LG monitor anywhere. Which one has thinner bezels, for Eyefinity setup?

If I do end up at some point going with a triple monitor Eyefinity setup, I would like something that is easy to use in portrait setup. Are either of these easy to mount in portrait mode? What hardware would I need to mount them in 3x1 portrait mode, any recommendations?

I would love to try out Nvidia's 3D-Vision but I'm not willing to buy anything smaller than a 30" 2560 x 1600 resolution monitor. Anyone know if there will be a 120Hz 30" monitor out from any manufacturer any time in the next three to six months?

Just go with the Dell. It has a great reputation. Plus, Dell has a good exchange/return policy. I don't know much about the LG, either...

The LG has a slightly higher gamut, but that's not a big deal: http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=35&mo1=527&p1=5499&ma2=88&mo2=237&p2=2302&ph=7

They both have VESA mounting holes. Check the dimensions of the holes to make sure they match your mounting hardware.

120+ Hz 30"? Most likely not soon at 2560x1600, but maybe a TV at 1920x1080 if there is not already one, or 32".

The Dell and LG contain the exact same size of panel. Therefore, with the measurements of panel+bezel(maybe +stand):

(W x H x D)
LG W3000H: 703 x 270 x 525 mm
Dell 3007WFP-HC: 690 x 469.7 x 200 mm

Judging by width, it looks like the Dell has a thinner bezel. But the LG seems to have height and depth transposed, so I may not trust LG's measurements here. Plus, we have no idea about the stand, but that's why I was using width, as the stand rarely extends beyond the monitor's width. I cannot really find reliable measurements on it. It looks like Newegg just has overstock of the LG. I don't think it's being produced anymore, because I see no other merchants selling it.

 

[BassBomb]

What is normal as far as disparities between identical monitors of the same company and brand?

For example:

As you may recall I got a 20WMGX2 back in 2006 brand new before they were dissapearing.
I also picked two refurbished more up in the summer from FS/FT here at ATOT for cheap.

Now my original one always looks much better than the others, even after tweaking the others considerably. I am sure it does not help that I don't own a calibrator.

The colors and brightness are not similar at all. I can get the colors close, but then the brightness is very low. Or I get the brightness close and the colors are then bad.

Its not an issue, since I only use it for PS3, but just a question to what is normal if you bought two of the same monitor, the differences that may occur between the two.

 

[Bolas]

Just go with the Dell. It has a great reputation. Plus, Dell has a good exchange/return policy. I don't know much about the LG, either...

The LG has a slightly higher gamut, but that's not a big deal: http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=35&mo1=527&p1=5499&ma2=88&mo2=237&p2=2302&ph=7

They both have VESA mounting holes. Check the dimensions of the holes to make sure they match your mounting hardware.

120+ Hz 30"? Most likely not soon at 2560x1600, but maybe a TV at 1920x1080 if there is not already one, or 32".

The Dell and LG contain the exact same size of panel. Therefore, with the measurements of panel+bezel(maybe +stand):

(W x H x D)
LG W3000H: 703 x 270 x 525 mm
Dell 3007WFP-HC: 690 x 469.7 x 200 mm

Judging by width, it looks like the Dell has a thinner bezel. But the LG seems to have height and depth transposed, so I may not trust LG's measurements here. Plus, we have no idea about the stand, but that's why I was using width, as the stand rarely extends beyond the monitor's width. I cannot really find reliable measurements on it. It looks like Newegg just has overstock of the LG. I don't think it's being produced anymore, because I see no other merchants selling it.

I've got a 52" LCD television that I can use currently, but the vertical number of pixels leaves a lot to be desired with only 1080 of them. I'd rather have 1600+, so I do not think I'l go with the television route instead of a 30" 2560x1600 monitor.

I had no idea that there were standard mounting holes. VESA? I'll check on that then and make sure I get mounts that work with VESA. Thanks, very useful information!

I think I will go with the Dell monitors then due to fewer warranty hassles combined with lower price. Sam's club has great warranty options, and so does Dell. With Newegg and LG, I'm just not sure how I would get things fixed. With the lower cost of the display, it's like getting the mounting hardware for free.

Thanks a bunch for the helpful reply.

 

[mejobloggs]

Is there any way to solve the over-saturation in games with monitors such as U2410 ?

 

[Luddite]

I've been clinging to my CRT while trying to decide which LCD to get, and after playing around with different models I realize that I don't hate glossy panels quite as much as I thought I did. However, I noticed there seems to be some monitors that are really glossy and then others that are not as reflective (i.e. semi-glossy?) panels. In one store I saw a Sony Vaio AIO with a really super glossy display. The Apple iMac didn't seem quite as glossy.

xtkight, do you happen to know of any LCD panels that are not as harshly glossy, in other words more semi-glossy ?

My criteria would be preferably PVA or IPS, 20" - 24".

Thanks

 

[alkemyst]

my LCD2490WUXi feels like I am staring at my Trinitron 21" without the lines.

 

[dkkruse]

Any idea what panel type is used with the new LG W2286L LED backlight panel? It looks pretty sweet, but for the price, probably TN. I do photo editing, so I'm a little skeptical.

 

[aaarrrnnn]

I'm interested in knowing how my Samsung 2333SW (23" at 1920x1080) compares with the suggested monitors.

 

[xboxist]

The closest equivalent would be an Apple Cinema 24", because it's glossy. I'm not aware of any other 24" non-TN glossy panels...

However, the NEC LCD2490WUXi is the closest non-glossy equivalent.

I've narrowed down my choices to either the 2490WUXi, or the 2690WUXi. Aside from the obvious difference in size and price, are there any other glaring feature/specifications differences between these two monitors that I should be aware of?

edit: I ruled out the Apple Cinema -- NEC has been great for me in the past and I'm going to stick with them.

 

[alkemyst]

I've narrowed down my choices to either the 2490WUXi, or the 2690WUXi. Aside from the obvious difference in size and price, are there any other glaring feature/specifications differences between these two monitors that I should be aware of?

edit: I ruled out the Apple Cinema -- NEC has been great for me in the past and I'm going to stick with them.

They are very different panels. The 2690 is a very wide gamut unlike the 2490.

 

[xboxist]

They are very different panels. The 2690 is a very wide gamut unlike the 2490.

Thank you.

My understanding of wide gamut is limited, and I will go read up on it.

 

[Winterpool]

I'm working my way through the relevant Hard|Forum thread, but might I ask why the NEC EA231WMi doesn't get much attention here? Of course I'd prefer 1920x1200 to 1080, but otherwise this seems a fairly attractive monitor given its slightly > $300 price on sale. And it offers a 'close to' sRGB gamut?

The uniformity issues with LG.Display IPS panels have become totally unacceptable. When are they going to get on top of their manufacturing QA?

Edited: after completing the Hard|Forum thread, I've noted that NEC seems more reluctant to approve display exchanges, especially owing to uniformity issues. Their staff claim not to be able to see the uniformity problems. This is in marked contrast to Dell's return policy. Something to keep in mind when choosing between this NEC and, say, the U2410.

ToastyX is currently waiting for his third NEC EA231WMi (the first two were of unacceptable quality -- the second had dirt specks -- bloody LG.Display!). Am very interested in seeing his assessment of a good sample of this display.

 

[Orubasarot]

...

 

[Adrenaline]

I'm sorry that you want to stay away from ASUS, because they have the best monitors at this price range. Samsung's TNs are subpar in features and quality. But this is up to you whether quality or service is more important.

Now, Samsung has a cPVA at this price range. Check out the f2380.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...1332&Tpk=f2380

This would be one of my recommendations to you. Also, CNET is not the best source for monitor information; far from it. Try the links in the OP. I am going off of X-Bit Labs and prad mainly for my information.

You get what you pay for... the f2380 would be slow at dark transitions but it is a better monitor overall than a TN. But don't make that rule out TNs for you. I still think TNs are better for gaming, and they may also have more dark details than the f2380 in particular.

The P2370 by Samsung is actually great at dark tones, so you can consider that. It's a TN.

PRAD doesn't speak *amazing* things about the response time but I still think it should be better than the f2380. Here is their review: http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-samsung-p2370.html#Introduction

Also f2380 review on this page: http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html

I'll get back to you a little later on which one I think is best, but in the meantime look those over and see what you think.

Thanks, I looked at those. I have read of good things about ASUS monitors so I may just bite it on what I said about them. The cnet was just a reference to show what I was looking at. I usually use this site for my information regarding purchases related to my computer and it has not failed me yet.

I did come across this on Hard Forums as a good monitor (listed on front page also):

http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-VW266H-25...8702192&sr=8-1

The ASUS is a TN panel while the samsung you posted is a PVA panel. I may just get a smaller monitor than the 24"-26" I was hoping for at a good price to get a better panel.

Edit:

I read this post before http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1333099&highlight=T260HD as well as a few other comments spoken on other threads and thought about the T260HD then. I am still looking. The ASUS has gotten numerous good things said about it from what I have read.

According to http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1039222 the Gateway FPD2185W I have is a S-PVA. I did not really know what it was until I saw that.

 

[Dritnul_]

nevermind sorry :S.