[Retired] The LCD Thread

[T2k]

I was going to go with the U2410 as at least it's brand new, but I hear only amazing things about the 2490.

Because people usually do not post "God, I was so stupid to buy a refurb for the price of a new one with worse exchange policy as well and as a result now I have to live with this giant dead pixel..."

I'm writing this on my shiny new U2410 and I have to say it's a very nice monitor. I have yet to get a W7-compatible calibrator and it's a bit on the short side for my taste when it comes to the highest position for the screen but otherwise it's a very impressive piece of engineering.

 

[xboxist]

Because people usually do not post "God, I was so stupid to buy a refurb for the price of a new one with worse exchange policy as well and as a result now I have to live with this giant dead pixel..."

I'm writing this on my shiny new U2410 and I have to say it's a very nice monitor. I have yet to get a W7-compatible calibrator and it's a bit on the short side for my taste when it comes to the highest position for the screen but otherwise it's a very impressive piece of engineering.

I guess you were lucky to avoid the pink/green tinting? I can't justify spending $500 on a monitor when the vendor acknowledges that there's an issue but won't do anything about it.

 

[apenney]

I guess you were lucky to avoid the pink/green tinting? I can't justify spending $500 on a monitor when the vendor acknowledges that there's an issue but won't do anything about it.

That's what put me off ultimately. I figured I'd rather take my chances with a refurb (at least someone has looked at it during the process) than get a heavily tinted panel only to be told by dell that it's tough luck. Both are risky, but in one case the manufacturer has said you can't play the replacement lottery.

 

[T2k]

That's what put me off ultimately. I figured I'd rather take my chances with a refurb (at least someone has looked at it during the process) than get a heavily tinted panel only to be told by dell that it's tough luck. Both are risky, but in one case the manufacturer has said you can't play the replacement lottery.

Errr, no, it is the other way around: NEC will not replace yours if you got a similar issue, Dell is replacing all affected units without any question.

Let's get your facts straight before you argue that a discontinued, refurbished, many years old LCD is a better deal for $500 than Dell's top-of-the-liune, brand new monitor for $450...

 

[T2k]

I guess you were lucky to avoid the pink/green tinting? I can't justify spending $500 on a monitor when the vendor acknowledges that there's an issue but won't do anything about it.

That's not true, they are exchanging affected ones upon request.

As for pink/green problem: haven't had a chance to check yet, yesterday I only got to test its basic features, nothing else. When/how do I supposed to see it?

 

[sofakng]

Why does everybody think TN panels are such garbage?

I have a PVA (Dell 2405), S-PVA (Dell 2408), and IPS (Dell 2005) and I actually prefer my new Dell ST2410 (TN) to all of them.

Sure, the viewing angles aren't perfect but when you are sitting at your desk looking at the monitor it looks just fine. (I guess if you're trying to sit underneath your desk and look up it wouldn't look right but......)

Also, I'm selling my Dell 2408 because of the wide gamut. I'm not sure how many people have never tried a wide gamut monitor before but apparently they require calibration and even after they are calibrated it still won't look right in almost anything except Photoshop.

Since 99% of content/games is sRGB it seems to make more sense to buy an sRGB monitor instead of a monitor trying to emulator sRGB (which is much worse).

(This is just my experience and opinion from dealing with the Dell 2408 and seeing how wide gamut drastically affected the picture)

 

[xboxist]

Errr, no, it is the other way around: NEC will not replace yours if you got a similar issue, Dell is replacing all affected units without any question.

Let's get your facts straight before you argue that a discontinued, refurbished, many years old LCD is a better deal for $500 than Dell's top-of-the-liune, brand new monitor for $450...

How is the 2410 "top of the line?"

I've followed the Dell situation very closely. I was pumped to buy it but after reading about all the issues and the way Dell is handling it, I'm holding off for now. Here's how I understand it: If someone buys a new 2410, and complains about the tint issue, Dell will only exchange it for a refurbished monitor, rather than giving you another brand new 2410. Which is frustrating to me, because if you're victim of a shitty panel, then it's clearly "defective" to me. But not to Dell. It's not cause enough to warrant an exchange for a new monitor. At that point you're thrown in to the panel lottery where you have to try refurb after refurb to get a good unit.

 

[xboxist]

That's not true, they are exchanging affected ones upon request.

As for pink/green problem: haven't had a chance to check yet, yesterday I only got to test its basic features, nothing else. When/how do I supposed to see it?

When I say they won't do anything about it, I am referring to the production level. They're still pumping out tinted panels, and they are fully aware of it.

Just load up a white screen, google.com should do it. Users complain of green and/or pink tone on their panels. Can't really miss it.

 

[T2k]

How is the 2410 "top of the line?"

How it isn't? It's the most expensive 24" model from Dell, costs 2-3x more than comparable-sized, current non-Ultrasharp units.

I've followed the Dell situation very closely. I was pumped to buy it but after reading about all the issues and the way Dell is handling it, I'm holding off for now. Here's how I understand it: If someone buys a new 2410, and complains about the tint issue, Dell will only exchange it for a refurbished monitor, rather than giving you another brand new 2410. Which is frustrating to me, because if you're victim of a shitty panel, then it's clearly "defective" to me. But not to Dell. It's not cause enough to warrant an exchange for a new monitor. At that point you're thrown in to the panel lottery where you have to try refurb after refurb to get a good unit.

There was a guy on a forum, I think it was on [H], who's on his 4th U2410 and it's now fine.
Also this monitor is out for like ~2-3 months, do you know what's refurbished in it? The panel. I bet that Dell takes in these t(a)int'ed units and either re-calibrates (there is always a certain amount of unfounded claim) or replaces the panel (LG-Philips stand by their warranty) and sends it out as refurb.

 

[T2k]

When I say they won't do anything about it, I am referring to the production level. They're still pumping out tinted panels, and they are fully aware of it.

That's LG-Philips, not Dell - this issue affects every brand using this particular H-IPS panel, it's obviously a mfr-ing/QC issue, independent of assembly lines.

Just load up a white screen, google.com should do it. Users complain of green and/or pink tone on their panels. Can't really miss it.

Haven't noticed yet but I'll check, thanks. This is regardless of preset mode, right (well, it must be if it's a real panel issue)?

 

[Rusvul]

Well, this isn't good. Over on Hard|Forum, Alsheron (the punter attempting to return his NEC EA231WMi owing to uniformity issues) has been told that



Now, we all know there are widespread uniformity issues with LG.Display IPS panels. But to look at it from NEC's perspective, 'in specification' might mean, 'For $300-something, this is all we can provide, given LG.Display's manufacturing variation.' With an HP LP2475w or Dell U2410, it's quite common to get replacement displays with similar issues. It's essentially luck whether one will get an acceptable LG panel.

Without actual statistical data, I don't think one can conclude that the proportion of unacceptable panels is any higher with the 23-inch LM230WF2 than the 24-inch LM240WU4. But with Dell and HP, at least one can play the lottery again.

Be forewarned, Dell appears to be closing off the possibility of "playing the lottery again." See this Dell thread - http://en.community.dell.com/forums/p/19302919/19603137.aspx?PageIndex=1

Essentially, the pink/green tint is part of the product as delivered. Exchanges won't necessarily fix it so you have 2 options, keep it or refund it. Every company is going to pot nowadays concerning monitors. LGs quality control gets worse and worse and now Dell which used to always have excellent customer policies is pulling this garbage.

I still might try my luck with the bing.com 15% off eBay thing a U2410 can be had for ~$425. I just wish there was a way to know for sure that the A01 sRGB dithering fix were in there. Then again I might not go for this at all... if everyone continues to buy despite declining quality in the products then there will be no incentive for these companies to improve.

 

[Rusvul]

Posting about the NEC LCD2490Wuxi-Bk refurb available at edexdeals.com -

Utter nonsense. Refurbished is NOT NEW, especially not in case of a display.

If you guys really believe this complete BS coming from the sales person of the seller then I won't waste my time telling you why is it utterly stupid to think a refurbished display to be on-pair with a brand new one at half the price...

Typical wishful thinking by home users - I bought well over a hundred monitors in my life, refurb and new, CRT and LCD, and a refurb is never the same as a new one, period. You can be lucky and get a very good refurb but it's still not the same as a new one - of course, for a home user it still can be "like I am still looking at a CRT and even better"... ()

Posting about the Dell U2410 return/exchange policy -

How it isn't? It's the most expensive 24" model from Dell, costs 2-3x more than comparable-sized, current non-Ultrasharp units.



There was a guy on a forum, I think it was on [H], who's on his 4th U2410 and it's now fine.
Also this monitor is out for like ~2-3 months, do you know what's refurbished in it? The panel. I bet that Dell takes in these t(a)int'ed units and either re-calibrates (there is always a certain amount of unfounded claim) or replaces the panel (LG-Philips stand by their warranty) and sends it out as refurb.

Do these two posts seem strange put together? Hmm. When it's the NEC it's "NO REFURB IS AS GOOD AS NEW!" But when it's the Dell, it's a lot of reasoning as to why a refurb should be just as good as new. Just my 2 cents.

Also to reiterate my point in the previous post - it looks like Dell is closing off the lottery, so I guess there's no worries regarding refurb for the green/pink tint issue. You can't exchange it.

 

[apenney]

edexdeals.com seems like an excellent site! After my complete screwup with ordering the 26" instead of the polarized 24" one they fixed it without any problems and now my order reflects the LCD2490WUXI-BK I originally wanted.

Hurrah!

 

[IlllI]

is it really necessary to have 4 feet of changelog history in the topic?

 

[Rusvul]

edexdeals.com seems like an excellent site! After my complete screwup with ordering the 26" instead of the polarized 24" one they fixed it without any problems and now my order reflects the LCD2490WUXI-BK I originally wanted.

Hurrah!

Good to hear apenney, I would love to hear when you receive your NEC how it turns out. I am very tempted by the A-TW Polarizer on the 2490Wuxi. outside of the few NEC monitors with it the only other one I could find was the LaCie 526, and there's no way I have that kind of cash.

 

[JaBro999]

Good to hear apenney, I would love to hear when you receive your NEC how it turns out. I am very tempted by the A-TW Polarizer on the 2490Wuxi. outside of the few NEC monitors with it the only other one I could find was the LaCie 526, and there's no way I have that kind of cash.

The HP LP2480xz is supposed to have the A-TW polarizer as well, but that monitor also comes with a big price tag.

 

[Rusvul]

The HP LP2480xz is supposed to have the A-TW polarizer as well, but that monitor also comes with a big price tag.

Ah, quite right. I do remember seeing that one but the $2k+ price tag was so high it was blasted from my memory. DreamColor indeed as only in my dreams would I ever lay eyes on it @_@. Not that the LaCie 526 in the $1k range is much better...

 

[neutralizer]

I've been enjoying my 2005fpw for a while and recently its been getting burn-ins and color splotches on the screen and am looking for a similar replacement. I do a bit of gaming and watching movies/tv on the screen so decent latency and color would matter to me so I was thinking of another similar S-IPS panel. Does anyone have any recommendations?

 

[T2k]

Do these two posts seem strange put together? Hmm. When it's the NEC it's "NO REFURB IS AS GOOD AS NEW!" But when it's the Dell, it's a lot of reasoning as to why a refurb should be just as good as new. Just my 2 cents.

I never figured it's really this challenging to understand that U2410 is 2-3 months old in worst case vs 2490UWi is many years old and discontinued...

...is it, really? I mean challenging to grasp the difference...?

Also to reiterate my point in the previous post - it looks like Dell is closing off the lottery, so I guess there's no worries regarding refurb for the green/pink tint issue. You can't exchange it.

I have no idea what are you talking about.

 

[T2k]

The HP LP2480xz is supposed to have the A-TW polarizer as well, but that monitor also comes with a big price tag.

That's a real 10-bit panel for $2k, way out of budget for pretty much everyone in this topic (= unlikely someone looking for such thing will learn about it first here... )

 

[Rusvul]

I never figured it's really this challenging to understand that U2410 is 2-3 months old in worst case vs 2490UWi is many years old and discontinued...

...is it, really? I mean challenging to grasp the difference...?

I have no idea what are you talking about.

Since we've decided to so quickly jump to sarcastic pokes - is it really that hard to follow a link in a post? I mean challenging to click the mouse button and read? Here it is again for you: http://en.community.dell.com/forums/p/19302919/19603128.aspx

And with the part from the Dell Rep's post directly copied and the relevant sentence bolded so you don't have to be challenged with following a link:

"Problem: Complaints of Pink or Green Tint on U2410 display Note: All received captures were tested and are within manufacturer specifications for Color Gradation. Because this is a normal panel characteristic and not a hardware failure, exchanges will no longer be offered for this complaint since a dispatch of another display cannot be guaranteed to resolve the complaint."


Regarding the post about your difference in opinions about refurb I just felt it was ironic to point out the stunning difference in language and tone between your two posts. At what point does aU2410 refurb fall into the "Refurbished is NOT NEW, especially not in case of a display." category? Since it's not 2-3 months, where is it? 6 months? A year? I just want to know what your experience buying hundreds of monitors has told you.

Putting the biting remarks aside, the 2490wuxi was an incredible monitor with a price tag to match. I think it is valid to balance concerns between a drastically price cut refurb of a monitor that was near-perfect and a similarly priced new monitor that might become near-perfect but has a ways to go - at the moment it is plagued with an sRGB dither issue that has a fix just entering the pipe (I haven't read _any_ confirmations of people receiving units with updated firmware yet, and so the results of Dell's fix are still unknown) and a tinting issue that Dell currently claims is part of the product as delivered and will not offer exchanges for. I don't think the refurb option should be so quickly dismissed with bolds and CAPS and the newcomer welcomed with jokes and smiley faces. Conversely the refurb should not be praised like the most awesome thing ever, it is a refurb and the warranty is shortened. Either approach is misleading to people wanting a broad knowledge of their options.

 

[alkemyst]

I never figured it's really this challenging to understand that U2410 is 2-3 months old in worst case vs 2490UWi is many years old and discontinued...

...is it, really? I mean challenging to grasp the difference...?

I have no idea what are you talking about.

My 2490WUXi has a late 2009 date on it.

I am sure you think the Sony FW-900 is pure crap then.

the irony is killing me.

 

[alkemyst]

lol... such a mistake. Hopefully they can fix it for you.

BTW, I assume you're talking about the reseller mentioned on the past page or two of this thread? I chatted with someone there from support and they say that NEC is an exception to the burn-in possibility on refurbished monitors. Citing that NEC won't let them resell anything with screen burn. So, hopefully you get a fine display.

They are shipped directly from NEC.

 

[alkemyst]

The T2K Dell advocacy crap doesn't need to be in this thread.

 

[iCyborg]

I received my U2410 today, and I have to admit that I was quite worried after learning about this pink/green tinting problem in this thread. I looked really hard at various settings/colours, and I could see no issues with this on my screen, yay . Since I don't consider myself particularly lucky, perhaps this problem isn't so widespread, but the minority that has the issue is vocal about it (can't blame them...). There are no dead/stuck pixels, nonuniformities, nor any other issues, and generally, the screen looks awesome. The only *very* minor annoyance is that the screen is inset, and there's a bit of a reflection at the bottom bar (I could fix this if I wanted to). I can't see any sticker/label to see the revision, but it's A00 as the dithering problem in sRGB and Adobe RGB modes is present. I don't do colour-critical work, and Standard mode looks the best to me anyway, so it's a non-issue for me. Given Dell's ridiculous policy regarding firmware updates, I sure want be updating.

That said, I'm pretty dissapointed about how Dell is handling this whole green/pink issue. Though to be fair, LG's fault may be bigger and Dell has found itself between a rock and a hard place. Telling customers with a problem on the sides of the screen visible from ISS that it's not a defect, because it meets manufacturer's specs for colour gradation which only look at the center of the screen, is baffling. And while factory calibration report seems cool, doing it only for a single point in the middle of the screen makes it utterly useless. I feel like the LCD technology has been artificially matured in the sense that the prices have gone down but so has quality control.

Anyway, time to end the rant, I'm very happy with my screen, but I think this green/pink uniformity problem should be mentioned in monitor lists in the 2nd post...