[Retired] The LCD Thread

[Winterpool]

Does Dell still offer the 2408WFP?

You should probably look at the Dell U2410 (24-inch, 1920x1200, H-IPS panel, typically $500 US) or the new HP ZR24w (roughly similar specs, $100 or so cheaper). That said, IPS panels probably won't display as deep a black as a PVA panel (eg that used in the old 2408WFP).

 

[JRW]

Does Dell still offer the 2408WFP?

You should probably look at the Dell U2410 (24-inch, 1920x1200, H-IPS panel, typically $500 US) or the new HP ZR24w (roughly similar specs, $100 or so cheaper). That said, IPS panels probably won't display as deep a black as a PVA panel (eg that used in the old 2408WFP).

Hm yea I was looking at the U2410 in this comparison site and it seems inferior to the 2408WFP, Unless im overlooking something: http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=88&mo1=570&p1=6292&ma2=88&mo2=590&p2=6590&ph=8 (use the "Choose a Test" dropdown box)

 

[Redshirt 24]

Opinion time: I can pick up an older Apple 30" Cinema Display, albeit without a stand, for $650. (This would replace an I-Inc 28" TN display, for sake of reference, which is okay enough for WoW and menial tasks and BC2...but the TN aspect is getting on my nerves.) How crazy am I for considering this? :hmm:

 

[Kalessian]

So I had my Soyo 24" MVA Topaz stolen from my house last weekend (along with $3500 in other electronics). I loved that thing.

I'm gonna get a new 1920x1200 panel. I play quake 3 and CS so I need low input lag (have a diamondtron crt for this stuff but I don't have room for it atm). But I also don't really want a TN panel.

Does anyone know the input lag on the Soyo 24" MVA? Because I didn't mind that. I read that the u2410 has 17 ms in game mode. Well the only LCD I've ever gamed on extensively is that Soyo panel, so if the soyo was 17ms then I'm sure I wouldn't mind the Dell.

Any other non-TN 1920x1200 panels out there with low input lag? Preferably matte.

I'd buy another Soyo 24" but I'm afraid I'll end up with one of the TN versions.

 

[JRW]

Does Dell still offer the 2408WFP?

You should probably look at the Dell U2410 (24-inch, 1920x1200, H-IPS panel, typically $500 US) or the new HP ZR24w (roughly similar specs, $100 or so cheaper). That said, IPS panels probably won't display as deep a black as a PVA panel (eg that used in the old 2408WFP).

I ended up buying a Samsung PX2370 LED monitor in town so that I can return it easier if I dont like, but so far im pretty impressed with it, I just got done playing through the new The Passing DLC for L4D2 and didnt notice any ghosting at all which I wasnt expecting.

Specs: http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/o...ype=prd_detail

 

[Bowfinger]

Anyone know what happened to Dell's U2711? It's disappeared from their web site. I have a 20% off coupon and was thinking of getting one.

 

[cammeron12]

LCD- Liquid crystal display..
New generation high quality picture clarity...

_________________
VGA Cable
XLR Cable

 

[Winterpool]

As GTaudiophile has pointed out on the HP ZR24w thread, TFT Central has published their review, and the first thing that leapt out at me was the mediocre black depth and contrast (static ratio 425:1, ugh), worse than the Dell U2410. On the other hand, default accuracy was pretty good, with a pre-calibration dE of 2.5.

 

[Kalessian]

So I finally found out the input lag on the Soyo 24" MVA.

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1032797794&postcount=1049

Looks like it was about 4 ms. Here I was hoping it was like 50 ms. The Dell u2410 has its share of issues and the zr24w has a lousy contrast ratio.

Whoever stole my Soyo probably has no idea how awesome that thing is.

 

[gorobei]

So I finally found out the input lag on the Soyo 24" MVA.

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1032797794&postcount=1049

Looks like it was about 4 ms. Here I was hoping it was like 50 ms. The Dell u2410 has its share of issues and the zr24w has a lousy contrast ratio.

Whoever stole my Soyo probably has no idea how awesome that thing is.

'does a double take at the lag timing comparisons. hugs his SOYO topaz and caresses it lovingly, casting an accusing glare at his pair of 2408wfp with their 32ms lag.'

yikes, if i had known it was that good i would have gotten another topaz back when they were sub $300. Guess i'll have to be more selective about what game i play on mine. Wouldnt want to waste precious backlight hours on some unworthy game.

Realistically the lag could be called close enough to practically 0.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

Are there any 120hz, 1920x1200 (or 1080) 24"+ VA or IPS panels?

 

[lupi]

I don't know how some are able to notice the input lag on these things. I still have an old 2405 and except for getting slow if I really crank up the graphics settings, I have never noticed anything while playing on it.

 

[Winterpool]

Are there any 120hz, 1920x1200 (or 1080) 24"+ VA or IPS panels?

As far as I'm aware, no -- if you're speaking of 'computer monitors'. However, there are a number of 1080p IPS TVs that display at 120 Hz from LG and Panasonic. And the majority of Samsung and Sony TVs are P/MVA panels.

I don't know how many twitch-gamers who demand 60+ fps play on IPS displays. 120 Hz is more in demand on TVs because of the 3:2 pulldown / judder issue when viewing 24fps film content (for cinephiles) and for 'smooth' motion-interpolated sports viewing (for the LaZ Boy demographic).

 

[Kalessian]

I don't know how some are able to notice the input lag on these things. I still have an old 2405 and except for getting slow if I really crank up the graphics settings, I have never noticed anything while playing on it.

Well I don't actually know if I would notice it for FPS since I've only ever played on a 4ms input lag panel and CRTs. But quakelive/q3 and CS1.6 are very fast paced so I imagine I would notice.

I definitely noticed input lag on my (stolen) 42" LCD for fighting games. Try playing any fast paced 2d fighter and you'd notice, like MvC or CvS or 3S etc. Parrying in third strike or CvS2 would be a lot harder with lag.

In SSBM, one move that I do is called multishining and you literally only have a single frame to do it. I can tell right away if there is input lag.

 

[zod96]

I just picked up a Dell 2709W for $500 from the Dell outlet. I hope its a good one...

 

[JRW]

Is it common to have a slight blue tint in the black levels on a TN panel? Im currently using a Samsung PX2370 and notice this symptom especially when playing darker games, Im not sure if I should even bother trying to exchange it or if its just the way TN panels are?


Thanks.

 

[Kalessian]

@JRW:

Calibrating didn't help much I assume? Is it always blue or just when it's viewed off-angle? Is it kind of like this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13799947#post13799947

Does the blue tint apply to everything, or only on black screens? Have you tried replacing the VGA/DVI cable or using the monitor on another PC? It's very possible you have a defective panel, just troubleshoot it first.

I find that a lot of matte LCDs will have dark purple-looking blacks. I'm not sure about the PX2370 but a TN panel won't be much worse off than an IPS as far as black levels go. The TN on my laptop does not have any tinting problems on its blacks. The only thing I've noticed is that the contrast shift due to the poor viewing angles will exaggerate the problem on a TN if you aren't sitting right in front of the thing.

PVA panels are supposed to be the real masters of black levels, but I guess every panel is different so YMMV.

 

[JRW]

@JRW:

Calibrating didn't help much I assume? Is it always blue or just when it's viewed off-angle? Is it kind of like this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13799947#post13799947

Does the blue tint apply to everything, or only on black screens? Have you tried replacing the VGA/DVI cable or using the monitor on another PC? It's very possible you have a defective panel, just troubleshoot it first.

I find that a lot of matte LCDs will have dark purple-looking blacks. I'm not sure about the PX2370 but a TN panel won't be much worse off than an IPS as far as black levels go. The TN on my laptop does not have any tinting problems on its blacks. The only thing I've noticed is that the contrast shift due to the poor viewing angles will exaggerate the problem on a TN if you aren't sitting right in front of the thing.

PVA panels are supposed to be the real masters of black levels, but I guess every panel is different so YMMV.

I only notice the blue tint when there's A LOT of black onscreen, and it can only be seen on the black areas, the rest of the colors look fine, Im starting to think its just the backlight glow (its LED not sure if that matters).

I got it looking a little better by turning down the backlight and set the color temp to Warm.

I had been using a GDM-FW900 CRT for the last 5 years which recently quit on me, Ive only had this LCD for a couple weeks so im trying to adjust. I went with a TN panel mainly because I game a lot and didn't want to put up with ghosting or input lag.

I plan on getting the CRT fixed but I may hold off until after summertime, This LED monitor runs surprisingly cool lol.

 

[IamShakes]

so i just got my zr24w up and installed and i gotta say really happy. great color uniformity (though i expected this coming from a 2005fpw), no dead pixels, and very very minor bleeding in bottom left and top right but its not noticable when i'm sitting slightly over an arm's reach away which is normal. (I used to lean in on the 20" monitor at the same distance so can stop doing that to see things clearer)

I kept stock colors as i don't have a calibration device and they said for stock colors its one of the better but did drop the brightness down.

 

[zod96]

I got my Dell 2709W yesterday from the Dell outlet. Its in perfect condition. No dead or stuck pixels and no back light bleed and color uniformity is great.The only thing is input lag. I definitely notice it. When gaming its a bit sluggish, not a lot but its their. On the desktop the mouse feels like something is holding onto it as I move it, so I'm assuming that is input lag at work. I got Rev 04. Blacks are nice and deep blacks and white is a nice pure white. One thing I can say is I like how the PVA panels don't have that dirty white feel to it like in IPS panels. The text on the PVA is crystal clear where as the text on my friends U2410 is a tad blurry due to the anti glare coating found on the IPS panels. Overall I like the monitor its just the input lag that bothers me a bit. I'm using a displayport connection.

 

[Bryson777]

I only notice the blue tint when there's A LOT of black onscreen, and it can only be seen on the black areas, the rest of the colors look fine, Im starting to think its just the backlight glow (its LED not sure if that matters).

I got it looking a little better by turning down the backlight and set the color temp to Warm.

Your assumption is correct. The blue tint on black is due to backlight bleeding which these montiors are prone to. The problem is that the PX2370 like it's twin the XL2370 is Edge-lit which makes it easier for light to seep through versus traditional back lit CCFL monitors. So no backlight bleeding is not "normal" for TN panels per say but it does exist. Like you said, turning down the backlight helps.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

need... u2410... sale...

 

[transmog]

Hi, I'm new to LCDs, switching from my trusty but aging CRT. I've seen reference to 'backlight lifetime'. Is this an issue? Is this the thing that usually goes wrong first? How long do these last? Any infos appreciated.

 

[lupi]

finally went and bought the u2410 when it went on sale last week, delivery should be wednesday.

 

[zod96]

Well the 2709 is going back. The input lag is just too much. For the desktop its ok, although its still noticeable when moving the mouse. Its games that it really sucks. The lag is very very noticeable in games. I should have learned my lesson the last time. If you want a fast LCD for gaming then nothing beats a TN panel. I should have known this. I don't give a crap about view angles since I'm always looking at my monitor head on, not standing up or from the side. And as for colors well I'm blind in one eye so to me looking at a IPS panel and a TN panel next to each other, I would be hard pressed to tell the difference. So I can get a nice 24 inch TN for $200 or spend $600 and get a IPS panel that is worse at gaming than the TN, I'll take the TN thank you....