[Retired] The LCD Thread

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: xtknight
The 20WMGX2 may be out of production, but what about the supposed NEC LCD20WGX2 Pro? Maybe this won't be available in the US anymore. That will be a sad day. We should call a day of mourning in this thread.

Is it premature to start mourning now? Besides the LCD20WGX2, just what's left on the market that's still IPS?

 

[Beh]

Originally posted by: xtknight

That's not much to worry about for a $300 24" monitor. I would be really happy, especially considering that I hand-calibrated it.

The contrast between dark black and being blinded is something I'd call "nice". The dynamic range of a monitor is a good sign of its quality. If you don't like that you always have options to turn the contrast down but I think that's valuable for providing realism.

Thank you for your reply xtknight.

Oh I'm not complaining. I love this monitor. The colors are so pleasing to the eye. I didn't know 8-bit panels looked this good or I would have insisted on getting one long ago. I was just curious about that dark greyscale result but I don't notice any adverse effects because of it. I suppose only the best panels can pass such tests. I am more than happy with this monitor and its price.

 

[guptasa1]

Originally posted by: guptasa1
I'm looking into a 24" monitor for my new build (both productivity and gaming purposes), and considering the Dell WFP2407-HC (not looking likely right now due to the ghosting issue...otherwise this would be my choice) and the BenQ 24" offering, but I've heard good things about the LG offering as well. Any particular reason it's not listed in the gaming section of this list like the BenQ? Thanks.

I just realized I didn't list the model I'm asking about - lol! Anyways, I'm inquiring about the LG L245WP-BN (and what might be the reason it's not in "the list"). Any responses of course appreciated. =o)

 

[soccerballtux]

Acer AL2051W no longer at newegg. Not just out of stock, no longer listed.

There's an open box one but we all know what that means.

 

[one1speed]

First, I want to say fantastic thread. Thanks for all the efforts, what a resource.

I'm new to the forum because of this thread. Amazing. I've spent far too much time reading and trying to get a handle on what LCD to purchase. I'm a Mac user and graphic design professional. I use my computer for all types of design and photo editing, (amateur photog). My inclination is to go with the Apple 20" display. But after reading many of the pages here, (though will admit I didn't quite make through all of them) I have to wonder about the NEC 20WMGX2. (I'd love a 24", but don't belive anything out there is as good as the 20" IPS monitors, at least within my budget, from what I can gather. Budget is right around $550 or so.)

I'm looking for a monitor that will be relatively accurate with regards to color, contrast, have good shadow detail, etc.

Would xnight or anyone care to comment on the Apple vs. NEC? I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance!

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Acer AL2051W no longer at newegg. Not just out of stock, no longer listed.

There's an open box one but we all know what that means.

It's my fault. I bought the last one

2 dead subpixels, but have to look really hard to find them. Great display, but nothing to benchmark against. Notice no lag at all in COD2 (about the only game I play).

 

[SpiderWiz]

I will admit I haven't read all 55 pages of this thread. I did read enough to see that you don't recommend the monitor I saw at a local store. Viewsonic / vx2835wm .

I'm looking for is a monitor that I can use with my PC gaming and use with my consoles (Xbox 360 and PS3) . According to your Hardcore gaming list, none of those monitor will handle my desire for 1080p for console play.

I saw the FP241WZ on the list and looks like it might meet my needs. Just wandering if anyone has used it with the consoles games.

 

[newschool]

I am having problem deciding between the Top Three LCD for Hardcore Gaming. I saw a review of the FP93GX and it was suffering from dithering. But I think there will always be some dithering with TN panels no? Anyway theres that new version of the FP93GX with senseye technology.. is it better?
And where is the ViewSonic VX922 ? It is a great competitor for the FP93GX and L1952TX no? Between those 3 what would be your final choice, I need a very fast screen for gaming (no ghosting) but I have a top of the line computer so I would like some eye candy too without major dithering

Great thread and thanks for the help!

 

[stylesjl]

Howcome you don't have any Apple Cinemas up on the lists? I was taking a look at the 23" Apple Cinema. Any info on this monitor? Is it ok for gaming? movies?

 

[wizziwig]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Most LCDs have a brightness control that primarily adjusts the crystals themselves, and the backlight just a little. Some monitors like some Sonys even have backlight, brightness, and contrast adjustment. NECs often have a "black level" setting where one ("brightness"?) controls backlight and one ("black level"?) controls the crystals. The contrast is often synonymous with R/G/B settings. Maybe these are switched around on the Soyo?

FYI, I was wrong about the Soyo and backlight control. I just hooked up the monitor to my Kill-A-Watt device to measure its power usage. It goes from 48-75 watts as you raise brightness from min to max. This means that it is adjusting the power of the backlight after all. But at the same time, you can also see that it's adjusting RGB levels because some colors make large jumps. Adjusting Contrast had no effect on the power meter. Wish they had a proper backlight control but I guess this is what you lose for such a low price.

 

[Imported]

Anyone happen to know how the DCL24A Costco is selling for $350 is? Which panel? I'm torn between this and the Soyo.. but the Soyo has one ugly looking bezel that is diverting my attention towards the Costco one.

 

[asianvcl]

well xtknight im a little disgruntled about the fact i might not get myself an as-ips panel.. it was through your review where i figured i should truly consider buying said panel for it's quality. Now that i might run into some problems, what would you suggest for me in terms of excellent quality. It doesn't necessarily have to be as-ips panel but anything you'd feel is good works for me. i have an 8800gts 640mb and im only running it on a vx922 viewsonic so im not optimizing my video card atm. What would u suggest?

edit: btw what is this pro version you're speaking of?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: guptasa1
I'm looking into a 24" monitor for my new build (both productivity and gaming purposes), and considering the Dell WFP2407-HC (not looking likely right now due to the ghosting issue...otherwise this would be my choice) and the BenQ 24" offering, but I've heard good things about the LG offering as well. Any particular reason it's not listed in the gaming section of this list like the BenQ? Thanks.

Well, I don't like to offer too many confusing options. I like having one definite, best size up there. From what I saw at a store I thought the LG's default gamma correction was poor by default, causing a pale image (like many AUO panels). The Gateway 24" S-PVA didn't have this problem (but it also had worse inverse ghosting). Dell's 24" HC has encountered some inverse ghosting issues. BenQ's 24" series seem to be the best choice for gamers at this point.

Originally posted by: KGBMAN
Well, it looks like Newegg has removed it from their site. GONE!

Here's what I'm looking for:

A 20"-24" widescreen LCD (non-TN) but I have a budget of less than $500USD.
I would have jumped all over that Acer if I had known in time.

Here are a couple of options:

There is a Ferrari version of the Acer still offered for about $400 with similar specs. Does this haqve the same panel?

I have also found an HP unit but does it match up?

xtknight, if you haven't heard already THANKS for this incredible thread. It's a great service. :beer:

The F-20 is listed elsewhere as having a TN panel (but the 176/176 there indicates VA).

The HP LP2065 contains either an S-IPS or AMVA panel.

I would suggest the NEC 20WMGX2/LCD20WGX2 (while it's still in stock) which is always AS-IPS. In stock at Newegg for $400 still.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Septimus
Looking for a new display solution. My needs:

- Web development (more coding than photoshop, but the occasional graphic work - this is secondary though)
- General productivity (outlook, word)
- Moderate gaming (going to be paired with an 8800 GTS 640)
- Be nice if consoles plugged into it directly (i.e. no need for a TV card intermediary) - this is also secondary though

Current candidates:

1 ViewSonic VX2385 27.5" widescreen LCD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?Item=N82E16824116084) )- $679

or

2 Westinghouse L2410NM 24" widescreen LCDs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?Item=N82E16824255001): $400 ea. after mail-in rebate

The Westinghouse 24" need DVI-->HDMI adapters but those are cheaply had. I am moving up from a single 21" Viewsonic VX2025 and am ambivalent about whether or not I want/need a second display; I had one once at an office several years ago and it was pretty nice, but those were two 17" CRTs.

Does this just come down to a matter of preference? I am leaning towards a single display solution at the moment since something that large can accommodate multitasking pretty easily and is probably a bit better for gaming. Any suggestions?

Thanks very much!

Thought I answered your question above, but if you have any more questions let me know.

Originally posted by: ViRGE
xtknight, did you happen to catch this thread today?

Yup, bad news. It was reposted here.

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: xtknight
The 20WMGX2 may be out of production, but what about the supposed NEC LCD20WGX2 Pro? Maybe this won't be available in the US anymore. That will be a sad day. We should call a day of mourning in this thread.

Is it premature to start mourning now? Besides the LCD20WGX2, just what's left on the market that's still IPS?

The Apple IPS series, iMac 24" which is H-IPS, the NEC high-end IPS screens, Planar's PX2611W, but not anything budget-conscious that I can think of right now.

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Acer AL2051W no longer at newegg. Not just out of stock, no longer listed.

There's an open box one but we all know what that means.

I'll be leaving it up there for awhile until all stock from most stores is gone. The upcoming AL2052W looks promising.

Originally posted by: one1speed
First, I want to say fantastic thread. Thanks for all the efforts, what a resource.

Welcome to the forums.

I'm new to the forum because of this thread. Amazing. I've spent far too much time reading and trying to get a handle on what LCD to purchase. I'm a Mac user and graphic design professional. I use my computer for all types of design and photo editing, (amateur photog). My inclination is to go with the Apple 20" display. But after reading many of the pages here, (though will admit I didn't quite make through all of them) I have to wonder about the NEC 20WMGX2. (I'd love a 24", but don't belive anything out there is as good as the 20" IPS monitors, at least within my budget, from what I can gather. Budget is right around $550 or so.)

I'm looking for a monitor that will be relatively accurate with regards to color, contrast, have good shadow detail, etc.

Would xnight or anyone care to comment on the Apple vs. NEC? I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance!

To tell you the truth I think either monitor is a really good choice. I like the NEC 20WMGX2 because it's glossy but that may not be as suitable for photo editing as the Apple. You get a lot more for the money with the NEC though. The Apple at not much cheaper than ~$600 isn't exactly a steal.

I would get the NEC simply because I trust it and I don't believe the glossy coating would hinder your efforts at editing photos. Plus you get a TV tuner, all the inputs etc, but all this stuff is important to me. It may not be important for you.

What I may get isn't necessarily what's best for you. I'm biased since I use the 20WMGX2.

20WMGX2:
-faster response time (most likely)
-TV tuner and inputs
-may have some trouble with darker tones
-glossy coating

Apple Cinema 20":
-may have some trouble with darker tones (I just haven't seen anything about it but I think it's an IPS panel issue)
-more expensive
-less inputs
-matte coating

I think both have a very tight gamma curve by default but I only know that the NEC does. I haven't seen any reviews on the ACD 20" in this aspect.

The darker tones issue is relative. After calibration you can see down to dark tone 4 or 3 which I think is just fine. Certainly better than a lot of monitors out there.

Hopefully this gives you some food for thought. If I didn't make it already clear I believe the NEC is the much better deal here.

As for glossy vs matte, S-IPS vs TN makes more difference IMO. It's really helpful to have a colorimeter for photo editing because it helps an immense amount, even on the NEC and Apple Cinema displays. That's something else to think about.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: SpiderWiz
I will admit I haven't read all 55 pages of this thread. I did read enough to see that you don't recommend the monitor I saw at a local store. Viewsonic / vx2835wm .

I'm looking for is a monitor that I can use with my PC gaming and use with my consoles (Xbox 360 and PS3) . According to your Hardcore gaming list, none of those monitor will handle my desire for 1080p for console play.

I saw the FP241WZ on the list and looks like it might meet my needs. Just wandering if anyone has used it with the consoles games.

The FP241WZ seems to have the best inputs support of the bunch. See HardForum for more details on inputs compatibility.

Originally posted by: newschool
I am having problem deciding between the Top Three LCD for Hardcore Gaming. I saw a review of the FP93GX and it was suffering from dithering. But I think there will always be some dithering with TN panels no? Anyway theres that new version of the FP93GX with senseye technology.. is it better?
And where is the ViewSonic VX922 ? It is a great competitor for the FP93GX and L1952TX no? Between those 3 what would be your final choice, I need a very fast screen for gaming (no ghosting) but I have a top of the line computer so I would like some eye candy too without major dithering

Great thread and thanks for the help!

The FP93GX+ ? (with Senseye) may be better, I just don't know.

The VX922? It's older and probably has worse color rendering/dithering. I really hate the controls on ViewSonic LCDs also. The ones listed in Gaming are surely as fast or faster than the VX922 according to X-Bit Labs' response time graphs. There's not much difference between the 19" TN displays anyhow but I'd get the NEC 90GX2 since it's glossy and fast at the same time.

Originally posted by: Imported
Anyone happen to know how the DCL24A Costco is selling for $350 is? Which panel? I'm torn between this and the Soyo.. but the Soyo has one ugly looking bezel that is diverting my attention towards the Costco one.

The DCL24A is a TN according to viewing angles at Newegg. The Soyo is a better deal and a better panel. You don't notice the bezel too much after you use the LCD a bit. But if you have a wife/GF it's not exactly a fashion statement, true.

Originally posted by: asianvcl
well xtknight im a little disgruntled about the fact i might not get myself an as-ips panel.. it was through your review where i figured i should truly consider buying said panel for it's quality. Now that i might run into some problems, what would you suggest for me in terms of excellent quality. It doesn't necessarily have to be as-ips panel but anything you'd feel is good works for me. i have an 8800gts 640mb and im only running it on a vx922 viewsonic so im not optimizing my video card atm. What would u suggest?

edit: btw what is this pro version you're speaking of?

By problems, what do you mean?

The Pro 20.1" version is exactly the same as the non-Pro 20.1" except for the logo (but the 17" and 19" Pro versions were updated with faster response time). I don't think this is for sale in the US though.

The NEC is really a steal right now, I would get it before stock runs out for good. I can't think of anything as good but the HP LP2065 isn't such a bad choice.

 

[veras]

Are there any issues with the NEC LCD2490WUXi? Looking for a 24" monitor for mostly gaming, a bit of image work, don't care about additional inputs - and I'm between that and the Dell 3007. I'm concerned about driving the 3007 at a good framerate so I'd rather go 24" I think, but it seems like every 24" screen has some problem or another :/

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: stylesjl
Howcome you don't have any Apple Cinemas up on the lists? I was taking a look at the 23" Apple Cinema. Any info on this monitor? Is it ok for gaming? movies?

The lack of decent PC controls in hardware or software really irks me.

The Philips 230WP7NS for not much more provides good PC controls and has a foundation of good reviews (e.g. Tom's Hardware Guide). I haven't seen the same for the Apple Cinema 23". Both 23" monitors are a little slow in response time, though, at 22 ms or so.

I don't know much about the Apple 23" but I'd have to assume it would be roughly the same thing, without decent controls for PC.

Originally posted by: KGBMAN

Originally posted by: KGBMAN
Regarding the Acer AL2051W... is this discontinued?

I've tried finding this on the web and the only ones I've found are refurbs.

Newegg has this as OOS but who knows if they will get more.

Acer's site lists an AL2052W with identical viewing angles but it seems nobody has it yet.

Has anyone seen this yet?

Seems to be a P-MVA but I don't see this in stock in the US either. It's a good sign, at least.

Originally posted by: veras
Are there any issues with the NEC LCD2490WUXi? Looking for a 24" monitor for mostly gaming, a bit of image work, don't care about additional inputs - and I'm between that and the Dell 3007. I'm concerned about driving the 3007 at a good framerate so I'd rather go 24" I think, but it seems like every 24" screen has some problem or another :/

Issues? Not many that I'm aware of but I always recommend you do some more research on HardForum before making a big ~$1300 purchase in case there's something I missed. It will probably have input lag in the same ballpark as other 24" displays. It's certainly tops for image quality. I think you will be amazed that way. IIRC you can turn Overdrive ON/OFF in the advanced menu.

 

[Imported]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Imported
Anyone happen to know how the DCL24A Costco is selling for $350 is? Which panel? I'm torn between this and the Soyo.. but the Soyo has one ugly looking bezel that is diverting my attention towards the Costco one.

The DCL24A is a TN according to viewing angles at Newegg. The Soyo is a better deal and a better panel. You don't notice the bezel too much after you use the LCD a bit. But if you have a wife/GF it's not exactly a fashion statement, true.

Thank you! Decisions decisions.. maybe I'll just wait a bit.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: TVisitor
OK, I've just recently snagged a 2407WFP from work to try overnight (not the Ultrasharp, this is the prior version without HDCP I believe). It's Rev A02.

A simple question: Does it suffer the same ghosting issue as the 2407WFP-HC?

I personally did not seem to have an issue. I know lots of these things are subjective. If that is the case, then I guess I know my "eye benchmark" so to speak.

Thanks.

The 2407WFP should not have the same ghosting issue as the 2407WFP-HC.

BTW all 2407WFPs have HDCP and all are UltraSharp. It's simply not A04 or HC you must mean.

 

[gravety]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: guptasa1
I'm looking into a 24" monitor for my new build (both productivity and gaming purposes), and considering the Dell WFP2407-HC (not looking likely right now due to the ghosting issue...otherwise this would be my choice) and the BenQ 24" offering, but I've heard good things about the LG offering as well. Any particular reason it's not listed in the gaming section of this list like the BenQ? Thanks.

Well, I don't like to offer too many confusing options. I like having one definite, best size up there. From what I saw at a store I thought the LG's default gamma correction was poor by default, causing a pale image (like many AUO panels).

Are you referring to the LG L245WP 24" here?

I was looking at these 3 (WFP2407-HC, L245WP, FP241WZ) - web design and gaming. The Dell has been discounted due to the ghosting issues, I am not prepared to take the risk tbh, so is it the BenQ then? Unless there are any others...

I like BenQ just kinda wish the bezel was black (cannot seem to find one in UK)...

Many thanks for this thread btw

 

[guptasa1]

Well, I don't like to offer too many confusing options. I like having one definite, best size up there. From what I saw at a store I thought the LG's default gamma correction was poor by default, causing a pale image (like many AUO panels). The Gateway 24" S-PVA didn't have this problem (but it also had worse inverse ghosting). Dell's 24" HC has encountered some inverse ghosting issues. BenQ's 24" series seem to be the best choice for gamers at this point.

Thankies for the clarification - was just wondering, and what you say is good to know. Then at this point, unless Dell gets the issues sorted out before I order, the BenQ it is. (Also found out the BenQ has a few inputs the LG apparently lacks, including I believe DVI, which I'll need). One more question - I notice newegg now sells the BenQ FP241W (as opposed to the WZ) - any difference? (There's also a VW that's new and advertised for gaming, etc., but I don't like the design [bezel, etc.] at all).

 

[xtknight]

You may well see the 2007WFP on the list soon, when the NEC 20WMGX2 goes out of stock. Even though there is a panel lottery, the fact that there are few truly better LCDs than even a 2007WFP S-PVA makes it difficult to not recommend it. Apparently, Dell isn't listening to anything, so it serves no purpose to ban it from the list any longer.

 

[one1speed]

xknight, thanks much for your indepth response on the apple vs the nec. greatly appreciated!! i agree, after your response, the nec does look like the better deal. from what is above, if i intend on getting a IPS NEC, i had better move.

cheers!!

 

[konakona]

I am one of the lucky few who seems to have picked up a Soyo 24" MVA with little to no issues. I must say I'm very pleased with this monitor considering its price

hehe, seeing how I had to have someone drive me to the next town to find one in stock, I would think there are more of us out there Back in 97 when they had value america deals, I was torn between a 19'' SM and 17'' AG; I went with the size and regretted ever since.

To avoid repeating the same mistake, I was at first leaning towards the NEC. Then one day, I had a chance to play around with my co-worker's 20'' and noticed how small it is (I was coming from a 22'' CRT, and wanted something bigger I suppose). The moment I got a conviction that the Soyo was a P-MVA, I pulled the trigger on it and became a happy camper. When the Westinghouse refurb deal came along, I was really tempted to return the Soyo and go up in size; I really would have if I could get in on the free shipping...

Then again, I still would wanna see the NEC in action, just to see what all the fuss is about. I have a feeling I wont be dissapointed Sitting next to the soyo was some glossy LCD of an unkonwn make (or that I just dont remember), and I was very impressed by it. Whatever, I know I cant go smaller now

 

[Daci]

Hi, I just read thru the thread, but I still have some questions I'd like to ask~~

I am building a new PC with Gigabyte P35-DS3P motherboard & EVGA 8800GTS video card, but the monitor I have is an Acer AL1706 monitor - it only has the blue VGA (D-Sub) connector while neither the mobo nor the video card have the old vga connector. I'm wondering what I should do~~??