[Retired] The LCD Thread

[BernardP]

Prad.de reviews xtknight's possible next monitor:

Samsung 275T

 

[Aversion]

Originally posted by: gravety
Well got my BenQ FP241WZ today - it's a seriously nice monitor

One question I have is there seems to be a light border about 6mm wide on the edges and a bit thinner on the top / bottom - is this usual?

I have the same monitor and haven't noticed anything like that. Looking now I don't see it, the screen 'space' goes right to the edges but not beyond.

Have you tried using the monitor menu controls to stretch the screen slightly and see if the border goes away?

 

[gravety]

Originally posted by: Aversion

Originally posted by: gravety
Well got my BenQ FP241WZ today - it's a seriously nice monitor

One question I have is there seems to be a light border about 6mm wide on the edges and a bit thinner on the top / bottom - is this usual?

I have the same monitor and haven't noticed anything like that. Looking now I don't see it, the screen 'space' goes right to the edges but not beyond.

Have you tried using the monitor menu controls to stretch the screen slightly and see if the border goes away?

Ahh perhaps I should clarify - the image goes right to the edge but it is slightly lighter!!

 

[imported_xyz]

Hi Guys,

I know my post was kind of long . . . but I would really appreciate it if anyone offer some of their opinions or suggestions. Thanks!!

- XYZ

Hi xtknight (or any other expert),

1st of all, great (looooong ) thread.

I have been looking to buy new LCD for a couple months now, but i haven't really found the one to pull the trigger on. Usage wise, I would say Multimedia is probably what describe me the best. Budget wise around 300. I don't have access to a calibration device.

I was 1st looking at the Samsung 225bw / 226bw, but after the whole panel lottery I kind of want to steer clear. Same with the Dell 2007wfp and HP LP2065 (a lil over my budget too). After stumbling upon this thread and slacking off the whole day at work reading it, I was sure that the Acer al2051w is the one -- until i find out that you can't get it anywhere anymore (discontinued).

So my question is what is the next in line? the LG L20xtw series even though it is a TN panel? If so, is the 206twy better than the 204tw? A while back (june, july?) you mentioned until proven otherwise, l204tw is still the one to get. Have your opinion changed? If not, what other do you recommend? Should I just plunge another $100 and get the NEC that everyone raves about? Or is there a sure thing coming out soon (Acer al2052w)? I am not really in a hurry as this is going to be my 3rd monitor for my 3 monitor setup, but I kind of want to get it done with.

Thanks in advance.

- XYZ

P.S. I tried to look for it in the placed mentioned in this tread but I did not find a calibrated profile for a samsung 204bw. Does anyone know where off the top of their heads where I might be able to find one?

 

[imported_xyz]

Ahh perhaps I should clarify - the image goes right to the edge but it is slightly lighter!!

I think this is considered normal or any LCD monitor (backlight bleeding), just that some are worse than others.

You can go to BestBuy or somewhere and look at the the LCDs to see that almost all of them would have some form of this.

- XYZ

 

[Aversion]

Originally posted by: xyz

Ahh perhaps I should clarify - the image goes right to the edge but it is slightly lighter!!

I think this is considered normal or any LCD monitor (backlight bleeding), just that some are worse than others.

You can go to BestBuy or somewhere and look at the the LCDs to see that almost all of them would have some form of this.

- XYZ

Yeah, my laptop LCD has a pretty noticeable light leak at the top and the bottom, it's only annoying when the screen is black, like when you're watching DVDs, but I can't see anything on the BenQ.

I assumed light leaks only happened at the top and bottom, but maybe on a screen as large as 24" it's all around.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: xyz
Hi xtknight (or any other expert),

1st of all, great (looooong ) thread.

Sorry for the looooong delay, trying to get back into the swing of it.

I have been looking to buy new LCD for a couple months now, but i haven't really found the one to pull the trigger on. Usage wise, I would say Multimedia is probably what describe me the best. Budget wise around 300. I don't have access to a calibration device.

I was 1st looking at the Samsung 225bw / 226bw, but after the whole panel lottery I kind of want to steer clear. Same with the Dell 2007wfp and HP LP2065 (a lil over my budget too). After stumbling upon this thread and slacking off the whole day at work reading it, I was sure that the Acer al2051w is the one -- until i find out that you can't get it anywhere anymore (discontinued).

So my question is what is the next in line? the LG L20xtw series even though it is a TN panel? If so, is the 206twy better than the 204tw? A while back (june, july?) you mentioned until proven otherwise, l204tw is still the one to get. Have your opinion changed? If not, what other do you recommend? Should I just plunge another $100 and get the NEC that everyone raves about? Or is there a sure thing coming out soon (Acer al2052w)? I am not really in a hurry as this is going to be my 3rd monitor for my 3 monitor setup, but I kind of want to get it done with.

You know, the NEC 20WMGX2 is probably the best choice. There is practically nothing as good for the price/performance. If you insist on keeping it $300 then probably one of the 22" displays (better than L20xWT).

Thanks in advance.

- XYZ

P.S. I tried to look for it in the placed mentioned in this tread but I did not find a calibrated profile for a samsung 204bw. Does anyone know where off the top of their heads where I might be able to find one?

Other than the calibration links listed in the OP, I don't know. See Section VI ("Using Your LCD"). HardForum might have one @ http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1168121

Originally posted by: ivanchin99
First of all, great guide Xtknight!

I wanted to ask a question after going through the whole thread.. I read somewhere possibly from you that Samsung 226BW S Panel is better than LG 226WTQ?

IS my list below holds any truth?

From Best to Worst:
Samsung 226 BW S Panel
LG L226WTQ
Samsung 226 BW A Panel
Samsung 226 BW C Panel

Yes, that's exactly what I would say. Chi Mei vs AUO may be a toss-up, though. One has better response time and one has better colors. The Samsung panel beats both on both fronts.

Originally posted by: imaheadcase
Yah I don't notice any ghosting still on my 2407WFP-HC since i got it. I installed Quake Wars beta played about 6 hours of it and did not notice any, if I don't notice it in RTS/FPS/MMORPG thats always good

It does make me wonder if some of this ghosting people are seeing are other factors on there computers. Video card drivers, mouse drivers from logitech are known culprits for mouse trails and pictures to appear ghosting.

Any clue as to why I got my monitor from Singapore while everyone else is getting them from China or Mexico in the US?

Ghosting usually isn't caused by any hardware leading to the monitor (I've never heard of the mouse problem but that may be the case if mouse trails are used). The sure-fire way to know is to test another monitor on the same port.

Originally posted by: gravety
Well got my BenQ FP241WZ today - it's a seriously nice monitor

One question I have is there seems to be a light border about 6mm wide on the edges and a bit thinner on the top / bottom - is this usual?

If it's quite noticeable then I would exchange it. Usually it's not so noticeable that you would see it on the desktop. If it's not an issue, then keep it, it's probably not worth the trouble.

Originally posted by: SuperUnknown42o
I'm looking for a good 20" 4:3 monitor. I'll be using it for general web browsing, gaming, and maybe the occasional movie. I was thinking about getting the Dell 2007fp. I'm coming from a good CRT so color and response are pretty important. Any recommendations?

The 2007FP may be the best choice for you, but it's hard to know without a budget range.

Originally posted by: eeric
Hi, this is a pretty off topic, but does anyone know the maximum resolution (or bandwidth) supported by a VGA connection, or where I could find out? When I search google I keep getting junk about the VGA resolution spec and not the connector spec. Whoever answers will be my hero forever...... really appreciated. Thx in advance.

Arbitrary. Higher bandwidth=noisier/blurrier signal. The official rating is 400 MHz at -3 dB. Granted, I don't know exactly what that means. I'm assuming 400 MHz is the pixel clock.

Something like these, according to General Timing Formula:

# 2048x1536 @ 85.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 137.02 kHz; pclk: 388.04 MHz
# 2648x1600 @ 60.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 99.36 kHz; pclk: 360.08 MHz
# 1920x1200 @ 110.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 140.58 kHz; pclk: 373.38 MHz

 

[SuperUnknown42o]

Originally posted by: xtknight

The 2007FP may be the best choice for you, but it's hard to know without a budget range.

My budget range is right around $500, but I might be willing to go a bit higher for a superior monitor.

 

[DarkNovaNick]

Does anyone have knowledge about the quality of the Dell 1901FP? I need a screen for photo editing work and have access to this one. It's several years old but well reviewed in it's day so I'm wondering how well it would compare to buying a new display (my budget would be < $300). I'm not sure what kind of panel the 1901FP has but I believe that it's not TN. Anyone know? Thanks.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: SuperUnknown42o

Originally posted by: xtknight

The 2007FP may be the best choice for you, but it's hard to know without a budget range.

My budget range is right around $500, but I might be willing to go a bit higher for a superior monitor.

The NEC 20WMGX2 at $400 would be the best choice, actually (if you don't mind glossy/widescreen). Otherwise, I must say the HP LP2065 is a good choice (not as good as the NEC, obviously, but it's great for 20" regular aspect). The reason I don't recommend it right now is because of the panel lottery but you may be more likely to get an S-IPS w/ the LP2065 than the 2007FP. The alternative LP2065 AMVA panel is said to be decent while the 2007FP is more expensive and its PVA panel may not be as good.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: DarkNovaNick
I'm looking for a new LCD to do photo editing work and am having a hard time finding something that sounds good in my price range. I'd like at least a 19" and have probably around $280 to spend. In the recommended LCDs in the first post the Samsung 971P is listed (for $300) which I could probably stretch my budget to buy if I was convinced it would be an amazing display, but I'm somewhat concerned about the reviews and that it might be really annoying for simple motion things like dragging windows around.

I really don't think the 971P is that bad. One of its only flaws, aside from lack of push button controls. It is available for a great price and it is the best for photo editing if that is mainly what you do. But if you game at all it might not be suitable for you.

I've also been looking seriously at the Samsung 226BW which fits my budget and is generally reviewed well. I am aware of the panel lottery but from what I've read it sounds like even the non S panels have been doing OK after they have been calibrated (I have a Spider2 calibrator). My main concern is that it has a TN panel which has a poor viewing angle and more extreme color shifts at angles. I will always aim to use the display head-on, but I'm concerned that I may accidentally edit a picture while viewing at a slight angle (slouching on chair or something) and then the colors will be off. Am I overthinking this? I just want a display that has great color, after calibration -- that's my main concern. 22" is nice but even a 19" would be great. Can anyone recommend a panel (or a few) that I should be looking at? Thanks.

I would be looking at the Samsung 971P and HP LP2065. The HP LP2065 is available for $350 AR at Newegg (yes, probably stretching it, but it's bigger, doesn't have response issues). If you get an LP2065 S-IPS panel you will end up with better color performance. If you end up with the AMVA LP2065 then it should be about as good as the 971P after calibration.

You have a calibrator, so the ViewSonic VP930b isn't so bad either. I have one next to me. It does fall a little short compared to my NEC in most cases but it should be suitable. Not that noticeable to be honest, but one issue I have with it is tone shifting. I find it quite distracting in all cases. It's probably about equal to a TN there (worse in horizontal plane, better in vertical plane). When you look at the display from a 45 degree angle as in a dual monitor config, the image is obviously faded on the VP930b. I can't say it will be any different with the 971P, though.

The 226BW is OK (maybe good after calibration), but calibration can't fix tone shifting or viewing angles. It's a matter of when, not if, they'll be distracting for doing color-critical work.

I recommend first the LP2065 and then the 971P.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: DarkNovaNick
Does anyone have knowledge about the quality of the Dell 1901FP? I need a screen for photo editing work and have access to this one. It's several years old but well reviewed in it's day so I'm wondering how well it would compare to buying a new display (my budget would be < $300). I'm not sure what kind of panel the 1901FP has but I believe that it's not TN. Anyone know? Thanks.

AFAIK the 1901FP is an MVA so it'd be reasonably decent.

But, something like the Samsung 971P or ViewSonic VP930b would probably be better. Both are available for around $300.

Samsung 971P (a few response time issues, great for photo editing): $299.99 USD
ViewSonic VP930b (good response time, good for photo editing): $329.99

Are you saying you have access to the 1901FP for free like a hand-me-down or from a corporation that no longer needs it? Then I say go for it. But I wouldn't pay ~$300 for an older monitor. Still not sure if it's MVA/PVA or TN, though. prad.de says MVA.

 

[imported_Septimus]

How important is an HDMI input versus a DVI/HDCP input?

I'm looking at 27-28" widescreens and I like the Samsung 275T a lot. I don't have any devices right now with HDMI outputs and I'm not a huge videophile such that I'd care if all I could use on one such device is a component output.

Is there any pressing reason to wait for a decent non-TN display with an HDMI input?

 

[DarkNovaNick]

xtknight -- Thanks for the great responses. It is really cool that you are so helpful with these questions. I will be looking at the 971P, VP930b, and LP2065 over the next day or two. We'll see what the budget allows for. About the 1901FP -- I have it at the house here but it is currently not being used for photo editing work -- it's mainly used for programming and web surfing. My options are either to keep the 1901FP doing what it's doing and buy a new display for the photo editing computer, or to switch the 1901FP over to the photo editing computer and buy a new display for the programming/web surfing computer -- for that display I wouldn't care as much about the color accuracy and the viewing angles so I could probably buy a cheaper (but still decent) display. Neither computer does any gaming to speak of. If the 1901FP is practically as good as some of the displays you listed then I probably would just use that but if it would be quite a bit better to buy a new display then I would have to think hard about doing that. Thanks.

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: Septimus
How important is an HDMI input versus a DVI/HDCP input?

I'm looking at 27-28" widescreens and I like the Samsung 275T a lot. I don't have any devices right now with HDMI outputs and I'm not a huge videophile such that I'd care if all I could use on one such device is a component output.

Is there any pressing reason to wait for a decent non-TN display with an HDMI input?

HDMI is not important in a computer monitor and not worth waiting for, unless you want a TV first and a monitor second, and are dealing with HDMI-enabled sources. HDMI is compatible with DVI, through and adapter cable. HDCP is compatible with HDMI and DVI. It is not a given that HDMI will replace DVI. Display Port is a serious contender. Videocards and monitors with Display Port are coming to the market in the near term.

Generally speaking, It is possible that HDMI will stay more on the TV side while Display Port will take the computer market.

 

[imported_Septimus]

Ah, excellent! Thanks - I'm glad to hear that since that Samsung looks like a great find!

 

[imaheadcase]

HDMI is not a big deal for monitors, the only main difference between DVI and HDMI is HDMI just allows Audio over cable to.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Septimus
How important is an HDMI input versus a DVI/HDCP input?

Not very important. You can convert DVI to HDMI.

I'm looking at 27-28" widescreens and I like the Samsung 275T a lot. I don't have any devices right now with HDMI outputs and I'm not a huge videophile such that I'd care if all I could use on one such device is a component output.

Is there any pressing reason to wait for a decent non-TN display with an HDMI input?

Component input isn't great on the 275T but hopefully good enough for you. IMO there is no reason to wait for HDMI inputs, unless you are setting up a home theater PC. Even then, only if DVI/HDCP is somehow not suitable. HDMI can also transmit audio but it seems a dedicated Dolby S/PDIF and dedicated DVI port would be better anyway.

Originally posted by: DarkNovaNick
xtknight -- Thanks for the great responses. It is really cool that you are so helpful with these questions. I will be looking at the 971P, VP930b, and LP2065 over the next day or two. We'll see what the budget allows for. About the 1901FP -- I have it at the house here but it is currently not being used for photo editing work -- it's mainly used for programming and web surfing.

You can tell what panel the 1901FP has. I'm pretty sure it's MVA or TN. Look from the bottom of the display, or the top of the display (crouch or stand taller than the LCD). If the display significantly inverts or if there is a blatant very black/ink veil over everything, then it's a TN. If there's just some slighter darkening of the screen with no huge change in the picture, or if it just looks faded, it's an MVA.

TN on left, MVA on right

My options are either to keep the 1901FP doing what it's doing and buy a new display for the photo editing computer, or to switch the 1901FP over to the photo editing computer and buy a new display for the programming/web surfing computer -- for that display I wouldn't care as much about the color accuracy and the viewing angles so I could probably buy a cheaper (but still decent) display. Neither computer does any gaming to speak of. If the 1901FP is practically as good as some of the displays you listed then I probably would just use that but if it would be quite a bit better to buy a new display then I would have to think hard about doing that. Thanks.

I would get a new display for photo editing and keep the 1901FP for general usage, which it's great for.

 

[one1speed]

xnight, others. based on my discussion here, i picked up the NEC 20WMGX2 over the apple 20". seems pretty nice and very clear, but i am a bit concerned with what i received. it doesn't seem to take much head movement to changed the tones on screen. in other words, i'm a bit concerned with the viewing angle.

therefore, i checked the specs that came with the monitor and it claims 89 degrees h and v. while the specs online claim 178 degrees h and v. still has 16.7 million colors. other specs seem inline.

it's not horrible, but not exactly what i thought it was. being that i am a graphic designer and photographer, ultimate resolution, color, etc. is important to me. and my main concern is, did i get what i paid for?

please advise. any thoughts are greatly appreciated. thanks!!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: one1speed
xnight, others. based on my discussion here, i picked up the NEC 20WMGX2 over the apple 20". seems pretty nice and very clear, but i am a bit concerned with what i received. it doesn't seem to take much head movement to changed the tones on screen. in other words, i'm a bit concerned with the viewing angle.

therefore, i checked the specs that came with the monitor and it claims 89 degrees h and v. while the specs online claim 178 degrees h and v. still has 16.7 million colors. other specs seem inline.

it's not horrible, but not exactly what i thought it was. being that i am a graphic designer and photographer, ultimate resolution, color, etc. is important to me. and my main concern is, did i get what i paid for?

please advise. any thoughts are greatly appreciated. thanks!!

Interesting.

I'm pretty sure all NEC 20WMGX2s include S-IPS panels. Granted, they aren't perfect and they will fade a little at wide viewing angles, there is no grayscale inversion. I think you'll find that the maximum change in color is about (guessing) 5/256 at 45 degrees, which is not very significant. It shouldn't be enough to hinder photo editing (many people edit photos with TN or MVA panels which are considerably worse in this aspect). As long as you don't shift your head more than 20 degrees or so I don't think you'll notice any difference at all.

 

[one1speed]

Thanks. I hope you're right, what you stated makes sense. I just hope I did get what I thought I was paying for. May send a note off and see how they respond. I'll post back here if I hear anything of note.

 

[alins]

The specs of 20WMGX2 indeed mention 89 degrees left/right and up/down, but this angle is measured from the monitor's center point, so the total viewing angle is 89 degree left/up + 89 degree right/down = 178 degrees all around. So there is no inconsistency.

 

[gevorg]

nevermind.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: alins
The specs of 20WMGX2 indeed mention 89 degrees left/right and up/down, but this angle is measured from the monitor's center point, so the total viewing angle is 89 degree left/up + 89 degree right/down = 178 degrees all around. So there is no inconsistency.

Right, although this measurement is at 5:1 or 10:1 contrast so it can be taken with a barrel of salt.

Edit: I see, you were clarifying his mention of 89 vs 178. 100% correct there.

 

[one1speed]

Got it. Thanks. Well, on Newegg, it just says 178. I did note that the 89 is exactly half of that, so wondered if there was more to it. Thanks you for clearing that up.

After some further looking around, I don't think the viewing angle changes are any worse than the Apple I have here at work. I think I'm just more stable in my seating here at the office. For some reason, I must move around a lot more at home, as the chair I have there isn't nearly as comfortable, (Aeron Chair vs. an old art studio metal stool).